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Old 10-07-2010, 12:00 AM   #16
davericher20
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ya Craig, bad analogy sorry.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:02 AM   #17
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^^ terrible analogy x100

and in my story, the cop would be honored a hero by the way.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:16 AM   #18
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I thought we were conducting war operations in Afghanistan.
Nope. Peace Keeping. There is a difference. War you just go around shooting, where as peace keeping, your trying not to fire unless you have to.

Sorry that you can twist an analogy so much. Lets stick to my what if story, not change it to suit you. You crash, your not armed, but you are wanted on other charges. Still is no reason to shoot an unarmed person no matter what. Just my opinion.

But let's look at what actually happened, and look at the law. The 2LT, shot, and killed an unarmed person. Enemy, yes. It is against Canadian law, Military Law, Operational Law, and laws set forth by the Geneva Convention. It stands to reason, that shooting, and killing an unarmed person, enemy or not is wrong according to those laws. Those laws are the laws Former CPT Semrau swore, or affirmed (which ever is the case) to adhere to, and uphold if necessary. Since the 2LT did not follow SOP's for engagement, and taking in a prisoner, he broke Ops law, and Military law. There fore, if found guilty, which he was, he must face the consequences.

He is lucky he was demoted, and discharged, and not thrown in jail. He got off with an easy punishment.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:20 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by craigIS View Post
Nope. Peace Keeping. There is a difference. War you just go around shooting, where as peace keeping, your trying not to fire unless you have to.

Sorry that you can twist an analogy so much. Lets stick to my what if story, not change it to suit you. You crash, your not armed, but you are wanted on other charges. Still is no reason to shoot an unarmed person no matter what. Just my opinion.

But let's look at what actually happened, and look at the law. The 2LT, shot, and killed an unarmed person. Enemy, yes. It is against Canadian law, Military Law, Operational Law, and laws set forth by the Geneva Convention. It stands to reason, that shooting, and killing an unarmed person, enemy or not is wrong according to those laws. Those laws are the laws Former CPT Semrau swore, or affirmed (which ever is the case) to adhere to, and uphold if necessary. Since the 2LT did not follow SOP's for engagement, and taking in a prisoner, he broke Ops law, and Military law. There fore, if found guilty, which he was, he must face the consequences.

He is lucky he was demoted, and discharged, and not thrown in jail. He got off with an easy punishment.

Well said!
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:30 AM   #20
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why should we stick to your analogy to suit your arugment? you weren't there, you dont know the full details of what happened, therefore any story can be created.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:31 PM   #21
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Sirex think of this what if...

the insurgent was a sniper and popped 2 of your squad members, youve been laying behind cover for hours on end and no support is coming for a damn while.

that sniper pegs 2 more of your squad mates but in the process runs out of ammo, and darts across open field of fire.

you and your remaining squad members open up on him and hes takin down.

you approach the insurgent sniper that has wounded 4 of your squad members who youve been very good friends with over your tour of duty.

just as you approach that dead son of a B****...

captain pulls up in a humvee "very good job you boys did here....by the way percy, jackson and lawson died enroute to hospital and Davidian is getting his leg amputated. Oh god can someone put that Bloody bastard out of his misery! i cant stand the horrendous noise of a insurgent thats killed 3 of your best friends.....noone?!?!.... alright fine! ill do it!"

I would be very upset that my superior let that insurgent get the easy way out, So mad infact that i would testify against him because he broke the geneva convention...

we dont know the full story...
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:30 PM   #22
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why should we stick to your analogy to suit your arugment? you weren't there, you dont know the full details of what happened, therefore any story can be created.
Because it's more similar than your analogy to the events that happened. Hence the unarmed injuredness of my analogy.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:40 PM   #23
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I don't think that Geneva convention applies to fighting partisans or any non-uniformed forces.
Geneva convention only applies if both sides are signatories of it. If one is a signatory and the other isn't then treatment by both sides is to be decided by either party through negotations e.g. Germans and Russians in WWII
Executions of enemy wounded are common since antiquity. The most infamous were Germans in WWII executing pows on the grounds of slowing them down in the offensive e.g. Ardennes 1944
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:27 PM   #24
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I don't think that Geneva convention applies to fighting partisans or any non-uniformed forces.
Geneva convention only applies if both sides are signatories of it. If one is a signatory and the other isn't then treatment by both sides is to be decided by either party through negotations e.g. Germans and Russians in WWII
Executions of enemy wounded are common since antiquity. The most infamous were Germans in WWII executing pows on the grounds of slowing them down in the offensive e.g. Ardennes 1944
Actually you are correct. Although, it is still against or Military Law, and Operational Law. Therefore, there is no wrong doing in pursuing prosecution for mortally shooting an unarmed combatant.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:44 PM   #25
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no one here said there was wrong doing in pursuing prosecution. just that it was unbelievable that they were.

Mowing down innocents is one thing. Popping insurgents is another.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:15 PM   #26
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Actually you are correct. Although, it is still against or Military Law, and Operational Law. Therefore, there is no wrong doing in pursuing prosecution for mortally shooting an unarmed combatant.
it also depends on how you classify the term of combatant - most European armed forces classify uniformed personel with structured organization as combatants. possesion of weapons doesn't quality one as a combatant.
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:19 PM   #27
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what is an unarmed combatant btw?

How can you be a combatant then? Just the word on its own...
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Old 10-07-2010, 04:25 PM   #28
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what is an unarmed combatant btw?

How can you be a combatant then? Just the word on its own...
combatant is the person who takes part in a conflict - e.g. of unarmed combatants - medical personel, support and logistics units. Most of them are so called "2nd line units" and are not armed and operate behind the frontlines unless need to redeploy them arises - e.g. Canadian army had to redeploy most of their cooks and other supply personel to fight in Normandy after suffering heavy losses.
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:57 PM   #29
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no one here said there was wrong doing in pursuing prosecution. just that it was unbelievable that they were.

Mowing down innocents is one thing. Popping insurgents is another.
He may not have been innocent, but he wasn't armed, and he was wounded, and was shot and killed. That is goes against the law mentioned before. Hence pursuing prosecution. Just like you can't have people in this country mowing down anybody they want, regardless of whether they are a threat or not. You must have grounds for defending yourself, and you can not use more force than is necessary. If someone is mouthing off to you, and you just crack them in the head with a bat, your going to be charged. That is what happened in this case. This insurgent was unarmed and killed. You just can't do that. It doesn't matter what you think is right or wrong, it's how things work. SOP's and other laws have been put in place over the years because of past events, and to prevent thing like this from happening.
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Old 10-08-2010, 02:09 PM   #30
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you guys have to understand from reports it sounded like this INSURGENTS guts were all over the floor and hes pretty much drowning on his own blood.
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