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Old 04-17-2009, 12:22 PM   #16
Trouble65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8003799.stm


The website has nothing to do with distribution of illegal material.


.
It has everything to do with it. They are showing people how to acquire illegal material.

Last edited by Trouble65; 04-17-2009 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:33 PM   #17
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Your analogies are still wrong....

You seem to be confusing the fact that if no physical exchange takes place, no crime is committed. That's not true.

Let me expand my example to fit what the Pirate Bay is.

You have a bar. They call themselves "The Drug Hole". They claim to only sell legitimate beverages, but everyone knows that they really connect drug dealers with drug users. A user will go to the bar to find a drug dealer. The two of them will arrange for the drug dealer to deliver them drugs through one channel or another. It doesn't matter how. They could have carrier pidgeons drop them off in a breadbasket a week later, it doesn't matter.

If the bar is creating a haven for these meetings, they are facilitating a crime. They may claim ignorance, but they know exactly the type of dealings that go on. They are making it possible and easy for the drug dealers and drug users to meet and exchange goods.

Now sure, the drug dealers themselves also stand to get busted, but that is a seperate issue to the bar owner. As far as the law is concerned, this bar is making it easy for drug dealers to peddle their wares. It doesn't matter what those wares are, but if they are illegal, it's a problem. Therefore, the bar owner gets charged if he doesn't stop helping these people. It's not like they called themselves "Joe's Goodtime Bar" and have no idea that anything illegal is happening. They call themselves "The Drug Hole" and claim ignorance to any wrongdoing, saying that they don't deal drugs, or ever hold any drugs, or even know where to get drugs. They say what people choose to do in their bar is their own business, we're just a bar.

The Pirate Bay makes it easier for people to commit crimes. That's where the problem is here.

And for clarification, the Pirate Bay is not a public space. It is a publically accessible space, there's a difference. Servers aren't free. Someone owns the Pirate Bay, and makes it accessible to people at no charge. They have a very direct say in what content is found on their website, and how it is used. Their choices make it possible for other people to commit crime, therefore they are liable.


It sucks. But that's how it is.

Couldn't you use the same interpretation behind google? Why not if no?

We all know what google is, its a search engine. It allows you to find anything you are looking for. They provide you a link to anything, at your request, illegal, or legal.

Instead of your bar being called the Drug Whole, maybe with google its called "Anything Goes." So what makes Google innocent, but the Pirate bay guilty? Because the PIrate bay is called "The pirate bay" you take that to explicitly mean that shady dealings are going on? And because its called Google, its legitamate and okay?

Lets take this a step further, WHAT if, Pirate bay doesn't even host the Torrents. They provide you a search engine that finds the links to the the torrent files. After all, it is a search engine- built around the same principles. You search, it finds the link for you. ( I dont know how P.B. works if they actually hold the torrent files on their servers, or what they do, but hypothetically speaking)

Then what, does that still make them guilty? If so why? And if it makes them guilty, what makes Google innocent?
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:36 PM   #18
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I have nothing to add other than Google rocks. Type this in your search bar and illegal material shows up for the taking. Google is different how again?

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intitle:index.of +”last modified” +”parent directory” +(mp3|wma|ogg) +"Jack Johnson" -htm -html -php -asp
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:37 PM   #19
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carjoe I just posted my argument regarding that, thats what Im trying to figure out.
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:46 PM   #20
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Google even takes it a step further and actually caches copies of websites, for which there could be loads of copy written material, such as books, excerpts of books, pictures etc.
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Old 04-17-2009, 12:46 PM   #21
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I guess it comes down to purpose.

The Pirate bay exists for the purpose of filesharing. Nothing else.

Google exists to inform, and is an invaluble resource to just about anyone that can use it, no matter your intentions. It wasn't designed as a tool to facilitate illegal activities. People misuse Google to achieve illegal ends, but that's not what Google was designed for.

Intent goes a long way in the eyes of the law.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:08 PM   #22
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Im so sad to see people even trying to argue this. A friend who is a lawyer saw this and laughted. They cant legally charge them with this. And the act of sentencing what they did is a violation of the creators rights and false accusations. He also noted if they have good lawyers they can even grab moneyz from the gov for that....but then again that would be in a far world....and in a fair world that wouldnt happen to begin with.

Second, why are people defending this? Its wrong, and we should not bend over and agree with it.

Sirex is right, his analogies are correct. This is the way hey worked around the law for all the years, and why so many torent sites are still up. They are just trying to spook other creators. ****ing pathetic if you ask me.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:08 PM   #23
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I have nothing to add other than Google rocks. Type this in your search bar and illegal material shows up for the taking. Google is different how again?
thats what www.g2p.org is for lol

And in regards to TPB, could they not have avoided this by having a disclaimer "This website is meant for the hosting of files etc... that the user has ownership and distributions rights to....etc etc... TPB is not responsible for the for any material that is shared illegally, the user that uploads it is reponsible etc..." and people have to click accept to be able to join the site
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:26 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Fel View Post
I guess it comes down to purpose.

The Pirate bay exists for the purpose of filesharing. Nothing else.

Google exists to inform, and is an invaluble resource to just about anyone that can use it, no matter your intentions. It wasn't designed as a tool to facilitate illegal activities. People misuse Google to achieve illegal ends, but that's not what Google was designed for.

Intent goes a long way in the eyes of the law.

GRRRR but fel, couldn't you then say that the intent of the creators of the pirate bay are in good nature as well? We cant necessarily prove that their intent is one of guilty consceince. For all we know their intent is of a good nature. They are in essence creating a system that can let us transfer media- which the likes of our society has never seen before or even comprehend.

While you can see that it is being misused by its users - just like google- at its true core though if you dig passed Lions Gate and Time Warner, we can see that finally Politics, Conspiracies, and Corporate greed, can no longer get in the way of you showing the world your creativity and individuality. Of course if you suck thats a different story all together.

One could just as easily argue that if Google is a tool, so is The PIrate Bay, that it too was created to facilitate legal interactions, but just so happens that people have misused it. A Pirate Bay is a very useful tool for all the reasons I have mentioned. Passing media about - media that is legally distributed for free.
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Old 04-17-2009, 01:45 PM   #25
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^^

Fair points sirex, it's not really like the Pirate Bay is stating their illegal intents anywhere. In fact quite the opposite, their putting intent entirely on their users. In the end, they have only greated a tool.... we're the ones that use and misuse that tool.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not siding with the courts here, merely trying to play devil's advocate and understand what the argument is here. I use the PB regularily and would hate to see it go away. But somehow I always figured they had a case against them. Aside from all the political and corporate interest at stake, there has to be a good platform for them to stand on otherwise they are powerless to do anything.

Though not a good analogy, think of places like the Toronto Hemp Company, or THC, who legally sell bongs to customers. It is pretty much implied that they sell drug paraphenalia, tools to help people use drugs. But there is nothing illegal about the tool, only the drug itself, therefore they are allowed to continue. (And for that matter, it isn't illegal to smoke weed, simply to sell and posess it. The PB differes slightly from this example, because it is involved in the distribution of the illegal goods, and not simply something that accompanies it.)
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Old 04-17-2009, 07:15 PM   #26
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This shit will get overturned so quickly. People are ****ing retarded, they dont understand the political climate in sweden, or the fact that these are mostly american companies suing swedes.

I've talked to frederik and peter a couple times before, they're wicked cool people who dont give a **** about going to jail. TPB is still up, and will be up. Torrent on!
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Old 04-17-2009, 11:12 PM   #27
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This shit will get overturned so quickly. People are ****ing retarded, they dont understand the political climate in sweden, or the fact that these are mostly american companies suing swedes.

I've talked to frederik and peter a couple times before, they're wicked cool people who dont give a **** about going to jail. TPB is still up, and will be up. Torrent on!
i hope they get a good lawyer and sue and win. Id be willing to donate money to their cause too.
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Old 04-18-2009, 04:34 PM   #28
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This is happening with IsoHunt out of B.C. also. The government has no case. all they are is a search engine and that is it. These sites are no different than Google. Torrent sites just filter out all the non torrent files.

Its like saying the phone book is illegal because drug dealers/ crooked laywers/ shaddy business phone numbers are in it.
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:21 PM   #29
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Sirex,

I dont believe they are accepting donations at this time. They did last time. They have two lawyers on full time staff.

great read:http://thepiratebay.org/legal
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:44 PM   #30
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hahahah thats awesome i never knew that existed..
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