Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > Misc > Off-topic
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-25-2011, 01:23 PM   #1
bmdbley'sBro
wouldu like some tinfoil?
 
bmdbley'sBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in your attic!
Posts: 4,670
Exclamation Health Canada DR's in court to take kid off lifesupport against the family’s wishes



-

this is Really messed up!


Quote:
Canadian Family in Life Support Battle Denied Request for Hospital Transfer

Published February 24, 2011
| FoxNews.com


Canadian health care allocation officials already ruled that Joseph had to be taken off life support and allowed to die in the hospital. A Canadian judge then ruled that Maraachli had to give his consent to having the breathing tube removed by Monday. He refused.

Maraachli says turning off life support could cause his son to choke and suffocate. He told Fox News on Wednesday that the doctors at London Health Sciences Centre have said the “best treatment” is to “let him die… I don’t know what kind of treatment that [is].”

The family believes this procedure will allow Joseph to breathe on his own, and thereby be able to go home and likely die there.


http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02...ital-transfer/

I guess if the family loses this case it sets the precidence that the gov can ultimately decide who can live or die! i'm sure bureaucracy & budget #'s will never factor into decisions. p.s a healthy body contains $500K + of sellable Organs. thp thp thp farva beans & kiante

'death panels' are real! anyone!?
__________________

Last edited by bmdbley'sBro; 02-25-2011 at 01:26 PM.
bmdbley'sBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 11:48 AM   #2
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,846
OH shut the **** up please, thats fox news propaganda trying to tell us that public health care is ****ing socialism and that the government then picks who lives and dies. what a ****ing joke. MEanwhile in the GOOD OLD USA, they wont even TAKE YOU INTO THE HOSPITAL unless you have money. REALLY what ****ing side of the coin are you on then? The miscontrued propaganda side that talks about public health care being a joke and government controled (oh noessss thye killl u if youre not a politician), or the REAL ****ing evil side in which Doctors wont operate on you unless you write them a cheque?

give me a ****ing break. If you read the article you would see that MICHIGAN hospital REFUSED to take the boy in to do an operating procedure that could potentially fix his breathing problem. Why? OH YA maybe because the family cant afford it - given that a thought?

The baby is a vegetable. I think if the docs have done everything human possibly to save this kid and cant then wtf choice is there??

ALSO, in the article it sattes they want to do the operation so that they can TAKE THE BABY OUT OF THE HOSPITAL so that it CAN DIE AT HOME.... What ****ing difference does it make, if it dies in the hospital? Its going to die regardless of what operation is given to the baby. Its like putting a fresh liver in someone who has ****ing full blown aids. Give me a break.

Last edited by sirex; 02-26-2011 at 11:52 AM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 01:52 PM   #3
98M3NACE
3rd Gear Member
 
98M3NACE's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 383
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
OH shut the **** up please, thats fox news propaganda trying to tell us that public health care is ****ing socialism and that the government then picks who lives and dies. what a ****ing joke. MEanwhile in the GOOD OLD USA, they wont even TAKE YOU INTO THE HOSPITAL unless you have money. REALLY what ****ing side of the coin are you on then? The miscontrued propaganda side that talks about public health care being a joke and government controled (oh noessss thye killl u if youre not a politician), or the REAL ****ing evil side in which Doctors wont operate on you unless you write them a cheque?

give me a ****ing break. If you read the article you would see that MICHIGAN hospital REFUSED to take the boy in to do an operating procedure that could potentially fix his breathing problem. Why? OH YA maybe because the family cant afford it - given that a thought?

The baby is a vegetable. I think if the docs have done everything human possibly to save this kid and cant then wtf choice is there??

ALSO, in the article it sattes they want to do the operation so that they can TAKE THE BABY OUT OF THE HOSPITAL so that it CAN DIE AT HOME.... What ****ing difference does it make, if it dies in the hospital? Its going to die regardless of what operation is given to the baby. Its like putting a fresh liver in someone who has ****ing full blown aids. Give me a break.
win x1000000
__________________
98M3NACE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 06:09 PM   #4
ericdalinda
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,242
no, win x10,000,000
ericdalinda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2011, 07:22 PM   #5
bmdbley'sBro
wouldu like some tinfoil?
 
bmdbley'sBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in your attic!
Posts: 4,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
OH shut the **** up please, thats fox news propaganda trying to tell us that public health care is ****ing socialism and that the government then picks who lives and dies. what a ****ing joke.

MEanwhile in the GOOD OLD USA, they wont even TAKE YOU INTO THE HOSPITAL unless you have money. REALLY what ****ing side of the coin are you on then? The miscontrued propaganda side that talks about public health care being a joke and government controled (oh noessss thye killl u if youre not a politician), or the REAL ****ing evil side in which Doctors wont operate on you unless you write them a cheque?

give me a ****ing break. If you read the article you would see that MICHIGAN hospital REFUSED to take the boy in to do an operating procedure that could potentially fix his breathing problem. Why? OH YA maybe because the family cant afford it - given that a thought?

The baby is a vegetable. I think if the docs have done everything human possibly to save this kid and cant then wtf choice is there??

ALSO, in the article it sattes they want to do the operation so that they can TAKE THE BABY OUT OF THE HOSPITAL so that it CAN DIE AT HOME.... What ****ing difference does it make, if it dies in the hospital? Its going to die regardless of what operation is given to the baby. Its like putting a fresh liver in someone who has ****ing full blown aids. Give me a break.
wow douche nozzle, thats very even keel of you to wade into the discussion with the logical conter point of "STFU " ps you forgot to call me a racist you stupid communist

LIE! all emergency cases recieve emergency care in the u.s!
I also know of more then 2 people Whos ONTARIO health Cards Expired.
hmm they didn't used to fkn do that...And the humanistic loving benevolant socialistic Hospitals of Ontario say: FUK YOU -WHERE THE LOOT at HOBO!? No Treatment unless you can pay! then you pay & are later re-inbursed less than 100%. Your care was not the 1st priority -PAYMENT WAS. and these are people that are known & with history's in the system, at their regular dr's offices.

Quebec is now talking of user fee's & I had read some stuff about proposed ont cuts - and financial articles saying canadian health care is unsustainable. yeah a resource rich nation with uber low pop can't afford it skip some jet purchases harper!


now back to the subject of Dictatorial control of a suposed free populous..

So sirex if it don't matter why the gov care? isn't it cheaper to let the family do what they want with their family member, over the gov fighting costly Court Battles on tax payers dimes? or is it an oppertunistic powerplay to set the standard that the gov is the final authority of your care & life - over the decisions of Your next of Kin

answer is yes its both cheaper & classier to respect the human rights & care wishes of it's citizens


y'all can go play in traffic, end up in a coma & have some expert pull your plug, x10,000, even with your famiy protesting -saying no we'll take him home
__________________
bmdbley'sBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 12:20 AM   #6
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,846
OH MAN,

What bothers me is that you take an article like this one, do not fully read it, or understand the biases, and get mixed up by the American propaganda.

This is a terrible news article because the full intention of the article is to sway VOTE. Right now the USA is going through a huge debacle with free health care, as such, FOX news and other Conservative/Republican media outlets are trying VERY, very hard to bash social health care systems.

This case in particular allows them the opportunity to bash our health care system so that Americans won’t vote for it/allow it in the USA.

Now here’s where things get tricky, this article is written so POORLY that at first glance your initial thought and opinion is that the Canadian doctors are doing what’s best for the government, and ultimately the government decides if you live and die – BUT BUT BUT in the USA that would NEVER EVER EVER HAPPEN. They talk about global budgets as if they know how our health care system works. Last I checked our doctors will DO ANYTHING that they possibly can to save your life with the tools at their disposal.

Let us look at the article in reality though without this American propaganda.

First, the article states that the couple wanted to get their son to a Michigan hospital where they could do a procedure known as a tracheotomy. However, the Michigan hospital refused them.

The family is working on an APEAL to the Michigan hospital to re-consider the child for the operation.
So really, no fighting in court has happened in Canada really.

Then the article states that in order for the plug to be pulled on the child the father would have to approve it. Which he did not. The doctors believe the BEST course of action for this child is to let him die. In this case, a judge and also the law, dictates the only way the plug will get pulled is if the parents will allow it. This is not a HUGE court battle that costs us millions of dollars.

The doctors however feel strongly about their opinion – which they should because there is NO treatment for this child. The doctors want to get the order reversed in this case.

Canadian doctors believe that a tracheotomy would be very painful for the child and would also not be beneficial for anyone.
Okay and lastly, there is some confusion and a mix up here. The article doesn’t say that the family wants to take their child home so that he can die there. The article is worded in such a way that the family wants the kid to have the operation so that it can breathe on its own and leave the care of the hospital.

The parents don’t want to take the kid home RIGHT now. And obviously they can’t because if they unplug him from the respirator he will die. But they want to be able to do this. Regardless, I don’t see how that’s the Canadian doctors fault as he was refused for tracheotomy procedure and it makes sense because you dont do a painful procedure when you know that outcome is 100% death.

Last edited by sirex; 02-27-2011 at 12:24 AM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 12:27 AM   #7
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,846
Quote:
So sirex if it don't matter why the gov care? isn't it cheaper to let the family do what they want with their family member, over the gov fighting costly Court Battles on tax payers dimes? or is it an oppertunistic powerplay to set the standard that the gov is the final authority of your care & life - over the decisions of Your next of Kin"
Actually if you read the article you would know that its the DOCTORS who want the plug pulled. Doctors are not the government. They dont have a government agenda, or a budget to look after. The government - judges - sided with next of kin.

I dont see a powerplay here at all. If the doctors succeed in convincing the government to pull the plug in this case, YOU might have an argument. Even so, given the facts, given that this is a baby and a full blown vegetable already and requires machines to live - I think the argument quickly gets blown out of the water.

What bothers me is that if you had done your research properly on these cases you would have a solid argument. If you brought a case in which the government DID decide then I would SIDE WITH YOU, but you bring in an article, didn't read it, then start throwing theories at it and unfortunately you've left a HUGE HUGE gap in your arugment that I cannot side with and cannot support. You are wrong, and this is where you are wrong.

Last edited by sirex; 02-27-2011 at 12:30 AM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 10:22 AM   #8
damameke
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Actually if you read the article you would know that its the DOCTORS who want the plug pulled. Doctors are not the government. They dont have a government agenda, or a budget to look after. The government - judges - sided with next of kin.

I dont see a powerplay here at all. If the doctors succeed in convincing the government to pull the plug in this case, YOU might have an argument. Even so, given the facts, given that this is a baby and a full blown vegetable already and requires machines to live - I think the argument quickly gets blown out of the water.

What bothers me is that if you had done your research properly on these cases you would have a solid argument. If you brought a case in which the government DID decide then I would SIDE WITH YOU, but you bring in an article, didn't read it, then start throwing theories at it and unfortunately you've left a HUGE HUGE gap in your arugment that I cannot side with and cannot support. You are wrong, and this is where you are wrong.

Good reply..... cant support or side with if all the blames are always on cops and goverments....in this instance, I believed the doctor knows best then as parents who loves their kids, they have to explore all necessary options.. in this case, it's futile...
damameke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 11:21 AM   #9
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,846
What bugs me the most is that to agree with this article is to side with the American point of view. And ya, if you are injured and cant sign shit, they will treat you first.

However, given that, if you walked in to a hospital with cancer, good luck getting any treatment at all. And yet the article talks about how in the states there are no global budgets and so they would never pull your plug. What a laugh..

In Canada they will do as many MRI's, CT scans, that they need to cure you - given that the CTs scans/MRIs are needed. In the states, each one of those scans = you pay for it.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2011, 08:25 PM   #10
325isdan
6th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: GTA
Posts: 1,217
Quoting FOX News is like quoting Wikipedia with a lot less creditability.
325isdan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 02:15 PM   #11
bmdbley'sBro
wouldu like some tinfoil?
 
bmdbley'sBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in your attic!
Posts: 4,670
I often wonder what motivates those that need to be sooo demented in their 'arguments'... 'american propaganda' so what are you sirex 'north korean prop -gov should be able to decide over your family what your care options are if incapacitated'


its really troubling that the gov has spent so much time & tax payer money on denying this lebanese immigrant family their simple request for humanity & compassion for their dying son, while Pushing an AGENDA to Get total final say, via precidence, to say we are the final authority on your health/life.

it is unfortunate that no one seems to care much - this is a real important one. you're all going to get old or get sick one day. and ya know, Bill gates is out there espousing things like: if we don't spend money on the last 6 months of grandma's life -we can hire 10 teachers with that money' he promotes his agenda's internationally through his trans national foundations.

Quote:

Ontario baby's tough life sparks debate over
who should choose how terminally ill die


By Sonja Puzic, Postmedia News February 25, 2011


.....

Joseph's parents virtually dropped their lives to be by the infant's side. Maraachli had already been out of work — he'd stopped repairing computers for a living to take care of his wife, who has lupus. The couple has been relying on Sana's disability payments and help from her family in Windsor, which includes Joseph's two young aunts.


Originally from Lebanon, the family has lived in Windsor since the 1990s.


While Maraachli spent most of his time in hospital with Joseph, his wife was travelling back and forth along Highway 401, trying to tend to both the infant and the couple's seven-year-old son, Ali.


When it became apparent that Joseph would not recover, the couple asked the doctors to perform a tracheotomy so they could bring him home to die.

Zina had the procedure done and lived for another six months before dying in her parents' arms.

The parents also cited their religious convictions, saying if Joseph can live longer with a tracheotomy, he would die "when God says he should." But the doctors in London refused, saying the simple procedure would unnecessarily prolong the dying process and carry risk of infection, pneumonia and other complications.


Fraser proposed to remove Joseph's breathing tube, with the expectation that the child would die shortly afterward, since he can't breathe on his own. The parents wouldn't agree to that.


The case went before the Consent and Capacity Board of Ontario, an independent tribunal. Since Joseph is an infant and unable to speak for himself, the January hearing revolved around whether the parents' wishes were in his best interest.


Fraser testified that Joseph was in a persistent vegetative state.


There was "unanimous agreement" among eight specialists who saw him that there was no prospect of recovery and "no treatment options," he said.



Joseph's medical file was sent to the Hospital for Sick Children in Toronto, which agreed that a tracheotomy would be futile.


The medical opinion was that "ongoing life support and extension of treatment with tracheostomy is not in JM's best interest given his current condition and ultimate prognosis," according to the Consent and Capacity Board's summary of the hearing.


"A tracheotomy would likely provide for a longer period of life, however, in our view would not result in improvement of well-being and could reduce quality of life," Fraser told the board.


The board also heard that although a tracheotomy was approved for Zina, science and medical opinions have changed over the years and it was no longer deemed appropriate for a child in Joseph's condition.


At the hearing, the parents countered that Joseph does respond to stimuli, including their touches and their voices.


Maraachli testified that he would "feel guilty" if he agreed with the doctors because his son "is still alive inside." His wife said she wanted more time with Joseph.


But a lawyer appointed to represent Joseph argued that prolonging the baby's life only serves his parents' needs.


The board sided with Fraser and the hospital, ordering Maraachli and Nader to consent to having Joseph's breathing tube removed. Through Legal Aid, the family retained a lawyer and appealed the decision in Superior Court, where they were dealt another blow. The judge, although moved by the case, ruled against them.

It seemed to be the end for Joseph and his parents' battle.


But as the family's plight hit the media, strangers jumped in with offers of help. One of them was Alex Schadenberg, the executive director of the Euthanasia Prevention Coalition, who helped the couple retain Mark Handelman, a Toronto lawyer who was once a vice-chairman of the Consent and Capacity Board.


Handelman first attempted to negotiate the baby's transfer to the Children's Hospital of Michigan in Detroit.


Although the hospital initially agreed to take Joseph, it changed its mind once the baby's medical chart was sent over from London.


Handelman hasn't ruled out another legal appeal and is still trying to reach a compromise with the London Health Sciences Centre, keeping in mind that the hospital has contacted the Office of the Public Guardian and Trustee, which could come back with a decision on Joseph's fate any day.

Meantime, a growing network of supporters is rallying behind the family, including the Terri Schiavo Foundation, formed as a result of the intense, public battle between the U.S. woman's husband and parents over removing her feeding tube.


Schiavo was in a vegetative state for years after suffering a heart attack at home. Her husband filed an application to have her feeding tube removed, but her parents protested, taking him to court. The case made headlines for years and went all the way to the Supreme Court.


Schiavo's feeding tube was eventually removed in 2005 and she died several days later.


A key figure in the fight for baby Joseph is Alberta advocate Sam Sansalone, who has been trying to help the family get a second expert opinion and have Joseph taken to another hospital.




Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/Ontario+b...#ixzz1FHFEfP5U


is anyone struck by the oxy-moronics of the dr's/gov arguments..
"A tracheotomy would likely provide for a longer period of life, however, in our view would not result in improvement of well-being and could reduce quality of life," wut!? kids vegatative so wtf does it matter then? well it matters if you're trying to implement a scientific dictatorship, lorded over by a technocratic elite.

the writing is so 'on the wall' an 'opinion change in medical practice' towards total state authority, courts ruling against parents & their religious stance, state lawyers to represent vegatative babies if only to argue for their hastened deaths..

people should also google 'the Public Guardian and Trustee' and read/watch some of the issues with that agency


i post this vid only for the truths ron paul says at the begining
__________________

Last edited by bmdbley'sBro; 02-28-2011 at 02:23 PM.
bmdbley'sBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #12
sirex
King Sirex
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,846
"complete vegetative state, with no chance of recovery"


they had 8 specialists, doctors at sick chldrens and michigan childrens hospital rule it out.. what more dou want? and if they do the high risk procedure and he dies, then the parents sue saying you kiled him.. LOL what a joke

I like how you quote second expert opinion.. they got the most prestigious hospital in the world - sick kids - saying there is nothing they can do for him..

Last edited by sirex; 02-28-2011 at 03:09 PM.
sirex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 01:29 PM   #13
chromius
6th Gear Member
 
chromius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,006
I think the wording is wrong. Performing a tracheotomy wouldn't be prolonging the baby's life, it would be prolonging the baby's death. The baby is dying either way, everyone agrees on that, so performing a procedure that would make it take longer for the baby to die while reducing the quality of life while the baby is dying, is essentially cruel and unusual punishment.

This line says it all:
"But a lawyer appointed to represent Joseph argued that prolonging the baby's life only serves his parents' needs"

Many doctors and specialists in several hospitals (even in different countries), independent tribunals, judges, and even the baby's own lawyer, all agree this procedure shouldn't be done, and would unnecessarily reduce the quality of the remaining life. (ie. cruel)

I'm also confused as to how Doctors and specialists = Government

If you truly think it's all about saving money, then explain why the hospital in Michigan wouldn't do it (despite doing it for money) after they saw the chart. Obviously money wasn't an issue for them, because they turned down paying customers after seeing the medical files.

As far as I'm concerned the parents are being selfish, and are purposely trying to prolong the suffering. Parents do not, and should not have ultimate authority in deciding who lives and who dies, and what procedures should be done. Doctors should have every right to decide what procedures they choose to perform, and the right to refuse if they believe their actions would increase the suffering of a person.

Just as an extreme example, Lets say a kid breaks his leg, and rather that put it in a cast, the parents say, nope, I just want you to cut the leg off, my god says broken bones are the work of the devil. Should the doctor be compelled to perform the procedure?
__________________
Photobucket
chromius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 03:00 PM   #14
bmdbley'sBro
wouldu like some tinfoil?
 
bmdbley'sBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in your attic!
Posts: 4,670
Quote:
Originally Posted by chromius View Post
I think the wording is wrong. Performing a tracheotomy wouldn't be prolonging the baby's life, it would be prolonging the baby's death. The baby is dying either way, everyone agrees on that, so performing a procedure that would make it take longer for the baby to die while reducing the quality of life while the baby is dying, is essentially cruel and unusual punishment.

This line says it all:
"But a lawyer appointed to represent Joseph argued that prolonging the baby's life only serves his parents' needs"
the whole situation is horrendous. but i think the cruel & unusual punishment comes from the gov & that hospital!

did you know the hospital is now threatening to sue the family for 'defamatory comments'?

not even allowed to voice an opinion

Quote:
Many doctors and specialists in several hospitals (even in different countries), independent tribunals, judges, and even the baby's own lawyer, all agree this procedure shouldn't be done, and would unnecessarily reduce the quality of the remaining life. (ie. cruel)
thats tooltastic thinking bro.. 'remaining life' which they wanted to Snuffout & end on Family Day, of all choices

they had previously done this for his other child and many others - now a simple 'change of medical opinion' within the community & its nah sorry We Get to Decide For You.

Quote:
I'm also confused as to how Doctors and specialists = Government
yeah it is confusing to see that socialized health care provided to all of a governments citizens by the government, managed & budgeted by the gov= gov

Quote:
If you truly think it's all about saving money, then explain why the hospital in Michigan wouldn't do it (despite doing it for money) after they saw the chart. Obviously money wasn't an issue for them, because they turned down paying customers after seeing the medical files.
reading comp 1 you 0. I said it would be cheaper to do the trach & send em home...

But a gov after more power -doesn't car about savings does it?

Quote:
As far as I'm concerned the parents are being selfish, and are purposely trying to prolong the suffering. Parents do not, and should not have ultimate authority in deciding who lives and who dies, and what procedures should be done. Doctors should have every right to decide what procedures they choose to perform, and the right to refuse if they believe their actions would increase the suffering of a person.
ok so parents that care about their sick children are selfish people that create suffering, gottcha. so should the gov just remove them from the family at birth and raise them in state run camps?

see how deceptive & false your premises are ..they dont decide, they just don't want the gov deciding - they want nature & g-d to decide, bro

dick chainy - out of nowhere, did you know this guy is the walking dead?
he has no heart, no really, he's walking around with a fake external that pumps his blood. logically 1 could make the argument for letting him expire, over this innocent baby..

Quote:
Just as an extreme example, Lets say a kid breaks his leg, and rather that put it in a cast, the parents say, nope, I just want you to cut the leg off, my god says broken bones are the work of the devil. Should the doctor be compelled to perform the procedure?
wow yeah - great comparative logic Its like the pedophile that thinks the that 2year old really loves them & we society just don't understand.
Again: they did this for the 1st kid, so why not the other..maybe because they want it set in stone that they are the Final authority, even over family wishes. defacto totalitarian socialism



-now-

Quote:

Father of dying baby says hospital treating him like a criminal



By Brian Cross, Postmedia News February 22, 2011


WINDSOR, Ont. — The father of a dying baby says he's treated like a criminal at a London, Ont., hospital and isn't allowed to be alone with his son Joseph.


Security guards won't let him pray privately with Joseph, who has perhaps just days to live, Moe Maraachli said Tuesday.


"I cannot pray like this. I want to cry, I want to feel with my baby and I cannot do this."


The Windsor family is battling the London Health Sciences Centre over where and how the 13-month-old with severe neurological problems will die. The hospital wants to take him off a life-maintaining breathing tube and went to Ontario's Office of the Public Guardian and Trustee to seek the consent that Joseph's parents refuse — despite a judge's order — to give.


The family had been asking that Joseph instead receive a tracheotomy, believing he'd then be able to breathe on his own so he could be brought to Windsor to die at home.


But after facing the Monday deadline to remove the breathing tube, they've asked that he be transferred to Children's Hospital of Michigan. More than 1,000 pages of Joseph's medical records have been forwarded to that hospital, and the family is awaiting word on whether doctors there will take Joseph's case. A hospital spokeswoman refused to comment on Joseph's case Tuesday because he was not a patient.


There is also talk of asking a hospital in Windsor to accept Joseph, a person close to the family said, as a temporary measure to get him out of the London hospital.


Ever since a court ruled in the hospital's favour last week, requiring the parents to give their consent to remove the breathing tube, security has intensified, Maraachli said Tuesday.


"They watch all my family," he said.

He said when he moves out of the security guard's line of sight, the guard immediately moves so he can keep an eye on him. It makes Maraachli's wife Sana Nader nervous and upset, he said. "When I'm in the hospital, I don't feel I'm in Canada, I feel I'm in some country with no human rights."

The couple lost another daughter, who had the same condition as Joseph, nine years ago. They also have a seven-year-old daughter.


Alex Schadenberg, whose Euthanasia Prevention Coalition is supporting the family's fight and paying for their new lawyer, said he doesn't blame Maraachli for being upset. He saw how security guards hovered over the family.


"It's like overkill," said Schadenberg. "There's no sign this family ever caused any problem, there's no sign they ever did anything to hurt the baby or anything like that."


Leaving with the baby is something the family simply couldn't do without medical support, since removing his breathing tube would lead to his death. "This is a family that has someone always with that baby 24 hours a day," said Schadenberg. "And now there's someone there right on their shoulder."


A spokeswoman for the hospital, Rachelle Wood, said 24-hour security is standard for the intensive care pediatric unit where Joseph resides, but she wasn't aware of any special measures in place for Joseph and his family.


The family's new lawyer, Mark Handelman, said he won't pass judgment on the security measures.


"When you have a patient who has attracted significant (media) attention, I think there may be concerns, not only about the patient's family but about other people who the treatment team is afraid may be involved."


Handelman was working Tuesday to get Joseph transferred to Michigan, a "delicate process" given all the complications: an international border, a long ambulance trip, a huge volume of medical records and the question of who will pay. London hospital officials were unavailable Tuesday to comment on the issues surrounding the possible transfer and the application to the Ontario Office of the Public Guardian.


When asked if the family would request the Michigan hospital to do a tracheotomy and release Joseph to go home to Windsor, Handelman said that would depend on the advice from doctors.


"Their child's life, or manner and timing of death, is on the line," said Handelman. "They wish to have a second completely independent medical opinion."

The lawyer, who specializes in health care issues, had not yet reviewed transcripts from the hearing before the Consent and Capacity Board of Ontario which had ruled that Joseph's parents must consent to the tube removal. Nor had he read Superior Court Justice Helen Rady's judgment last week which upheld the board's decision. But he said he's "losing sleep" trying to understand the hospital's position.


The London treatment team says Joseph is dying, has virtually no brain function and is in or near a persistent vegetative state, said Handelman.

"And if that's the case I'm having trouble understanding why they say that to trach him and send him home would cause him to suffer."




Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/health/Fa...#ixzz1FNKEr0uu
truely orwellian truely disgusting


Quote:
baby still alive despite Family Day death deadline

Read more: http://www.windsorstar.com/health/Fa...#ixzz1FNJpaTTg

so heres some very recent vid of the 'totally vegatative' baby

__________________
bmdbley'sBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 04:10 PM   #15
chromius
6th Gear Member
 
chromius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmdbley'sBro View Post
the whole situation is horrendous. but i think the cruel & unusual punishment comes from the gov & that hospital!

did you know the hospital is now threatening to sue the family for 'defamatory comments'?

not even allowed to voice an opinion
suing for defamatory comments is hardly cruel and unusual compared to wanting to make a baby suffer a long drawn out, most likely painful death.

If they truly are being defamatory and spreading false information, and threatening the lively hoods of the doctors or reputation of the hospital, then they should sue.

Quote:
thats tooltastic thinking bro.. 'remaining life' which they wanted to Snuffout & end on Family Day, of all choices

they had previously done this for his other child and many others - now a simple 'change of medical opinion' within the community & its nah sorry We Get to Decide For You.
Ya heaven forbid there should ever be a change in medical opinions. They used to treat easily manageable medical conditions with lobotomy's and electro shock therapy, but don't any more because of a "change in medical opinion". Guess they shouldn't have stopped doing that eh?. Things in the medical world change ya know, new research comes along, and a procedure that may have once been common practice or accepted, can be proven wrong or ineffective.

Quote:
yeah it is confusing to see that socialized health care provided to all of a governments citizens by the government, managed & budgeted by the gov= gov
Uhmmm There's still no link between the government and the doctors and their medical opinions. And that still doesn't explain why the Michigan hospital, with no relation to Canada's socialized health care, refused the case after reviewing the facts. Your supposed link between doctors and government mind control, and fear mongering propaganda don't hold water.

Quote:
reading comp 1 you 0. I said it would be cheaper to do the trach & send em home...

But a gov after more power -doesn't car about savings does it?
Again...where is the link to government wanting more power? And how exactly does it gain power? It's not making the decisions. Doctors are. Are you saying the doctors are in bed with the gov, and secretly in contact with Harper, and harper is saying to all these doctors, the tribunals, the judges, and lawyers, and his friends in Michigan..."HEHEHE Let the baby die, we're gonna show these parents who's boss."? All these people are keeping quiet on the government controlling the situation behind the curtain?

Please...dude, your conspiracy theories are getting out of control, you need to lay off the

Quote:
ok so parents that care about their sick children are selfish people that create suffering, gottcha. so should the gov just remove them from the family at birth and raise them in state run camps?
There is nothing wrong with parents that care about their sick children, but parents are not medical doctors, they don't always know what's best medically speaking. And if they're suggesting something that's not appropriate, are you saying the doctors should just go ahead and do it, even if it's not in the best interests of the patient? Unfortunately Love blinds, and the parents are not looking to the child's well being and reducing it's suffering, they are looking out for themselves, and just want a few extra weeks with a baby that's suffering.

If the parents are such experts in medical procedures, why did they defer to the doctors in the first place? Why didn't they just treat the baby themselves if they know best?

Quote:
see how deceptive & false your premises are ..they dont decide, they just don't want the gov deciding - they want nature & g-d to decide, bro
How is a tracheotomy letting nature and "god" decide? That doesn't make any sense, a mechanical procedure in order to extend suffering is not natural. Simply removing the breathing tube and letting the baby be on it's own, IS the most natural way for nature and "god" to decide.

Quote:
dick chainy - out of nowhere, did you know this guy is the walking dead?
he has no heart, no really, he's walking around with a fake external that pumps his blood. logically 1 could make the argument for letting him expire, over this innocent baby..
I fail to see the relevance. He's an adult that has the ability to make a decision for himself. He's choosing to live the way he is. There are tonnes of people and stories of people that want to be euthanized or to have their breathing tubes removed when they become incapacitated. Because they don't want to suffer or remain in a veg state. That's humane.

Quote:
wow yeah - great comparative logic Its like the pedophile that thinks the that 2year old really loves them & we society just don't understand.
Uhmm...what does pedophilia have to do with anything?
Quote:
Again: they did this for the 1st kid, so why not the other..maybe because they want it set in stone that they are the Final authority, even over family wishes. defacto totalitarian socialism
Again...Still no link to gov. Things in the medical world have changed since they did it to the first kid.
__________________
Photobucket
chromius is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Maxbimmer Copyright 2001 - 2018