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Old 12-13-2001, 01:20 PM   #1
Bliss
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Bavarian Motors

ok, i passed by there a couple of times, but never really looked into what exactly that they do. Can someone tell me? Ok i mean are they a shop? do they sell parts? performance wise?
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Old 12-13-2001, 01:41 PM   #2
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Unbiased opinion (experience only)

Steve (owner) is an awsome mechanic.... he actually taught Dave (Motronix) everything he knows... The place is big and they have hired mechanics in the back...

ie: higher overhead... higher prices.

Steve's trying to get away from performance mods and went partnership with John Dimoff (now owner of Raven Performance) who does all the performance work in the building. Raven is just "out to right field" with his exorbitant prices and is slowly loosing tons of clients with his arrogant attitude.

Overall.... I'd say the best private place in the GTA to get work done (maintainence or performance) is Beach Auto (Ex-BMW dealership) on Queen St (Beaches).
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Old 12-13-2001, 08:50 PM   #3
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I see, i see. yeah i was just curious about a good shop. I don't plan on buying any performance parts here, since i get them all from the states at a much cheaper price(i think). I was just wondering where there's good shops around here. Also since my car is under warranty, i haven't really looked for a shop, but maybe in the near future i will need one...a supercharger install maybe?? Thanks guys.
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Old 12-13-2001, 09:08 PM   #4
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Like RANDY said... Raven and Bavarian are okay as install/labour shops since their labour rate is in line with the going rate of about $70/hour.

On the parts side I would avoid them. John has done quite a bit of work on my car but I have always supplied the parts. For instance I was quoted $450-475 for a 25mm master cylinder (upgraded oversized part), but I was able to find one on-line for $216! (and that's landed cost in my hands all taxes paid!)

So as long as you're getting labour from them you should be fine. For parts, I would shop around.

Just my $0.02 (even though they work on my car almost exclusively).

PS - Randy, has Dave stopped working on cars? I wanted to switch to his guy said he'd send me to some install shop.
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Old 12-13-2001, 10:00 PM   #5
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Raven....

Well, this is a little tough, since I'm pretty good buddies with both John and Steve.

However, my $3500 roll cage from John did come in at $8500 all things in (taxes as well...).

Now, I did have some custom body work done, and this also included the complete stripping of my interior, A/C, cruise-control etc, etc, etc.

Had I known right up front that it was $8500, I probably would have swapped out the suspension and brakes instead of building the cage. All things considered though, I'm happy with it.

John does do premium work, but I do wish he would examine a few more options, rather than just sticking to one technology / product, and endorsing that one only. He wants to just recommend actual, tested products, but the truth remains that multiple products exist on the marketplace for each aspect of performance.

One of the pricing issues that John and I have run into lately is the debate over a 3.2L powerplant for my 325. He wants $12,000 CDN (just the plant, not install); I seem to find plenty of them online for around $4500 US. Heck, I can buy one from Bavarian Engine Exchange for $5700 US brand new....

Pat
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Old 12-13-2001, 10:35 PM   #6
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I'll agree with Rob on that one...

I will agree with you on that one Rob.

I've bought several parts and just had John / Steve install them for me, as I found I could get better pricing on my own.

As to the price of my cage, it's completely custom, and designed specifically for my car. As a competitive example, Frank's cage was $10,000 US, and that was unpainted. So, do I feel taken by the cage; absolutely not. Was it the price I was expecting to pay, no, but it is worth it.

It's something else to drive a car that is fully race prepped; a LOT less weight, and boy, can it corner now...

As it stands, I haven't found anyone who puts in the level of dedication into my car that John and Steve have, and I doubt I'd get that level of support from nearly any other dealers in the area.

I live close to Beach Auto, but without knowing anybody there, I can't see myself changing vendors.

Pat
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Old 12-14-2001, 01:44 AM   #7
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shops..

I must agree that Motronix is a great place... friendly, knowledgeable, and their parts are not overinflated...

I haven't had a prob with them so i would recommend them!

Darryl
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Old 12-14-2001, 08:17 AM   #8
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Re: I'll agree with Rob on that one...

Quote:
Originally posted by Bad-Karma
I will agree with you on that one Rob.

I've bought several parts and just had John / Steve install them for me, as I found I could get better pricing on my own.

As to the price of my cage, it's completely custom, and designed specifically for my car. As a competitive example, Frank's cage was $10,000 US, and that was unpainted. So, do I feel taken by the cage; absolutely not. Was it the price I was expecting to pay, no, but it is worth it.

It's something else to drive a car that is fully race prepped; a LOT less weight, and boy, can it corner now...

As it stands, I haven't found anyone who puts in the level of dedication into my car that John and Steve have, and I doubt I'd get that level of support from nearly any other dealers in the area.

I live close to Beach Auto, but without knowing anybody there, I can't see myself changing vendors.

Pat


Pat,


The price that Frank paid in the States for his cage is an absolute joke.... even if it did include the removal of the rear deck and made from Chrom-moly.... Look at Mike Booker's cage, same material/construction for LESS than half of YOUR cage (from O'Brien Motorsports -- place I went to). On top of that, John doesn't even build the cages himself!!!! He takes the car to CSC in Concord and pockets the markup. I've known John for about 8 years and know things that'll surprise you!
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Old 12-14-2001, 11:03 AM   #9
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Cages...

Yeah, Frank's was a joke.

Actually, John did build my cage. I was there for a significant portion of it.

CSC just does the mandrel bends on the tubing; everything else John has his guy (who I refer to as "little Steve") do.

I've known John for about 4 years, and to be honest, we play basketball on a weekly basis. Yeah, on one hand, we're buddies.

However, and I agree on this notion. The strict, "this product, at this price and nothing but" mentality doesn't sit well with me. I'm examining some different brake kits (UUC's, TMS, AP Racing etc), and John (as does Chuck mind you...) sticks with the AP Racing rig no questions asked. I tend to balk at the $4500 installed price, when I can pick up a complete set (front and rear) of the UUC kit for the same price.

As I said, for my cage price, the $8500 (actually, I think it was $83xx) was tax in. As well, I had some body work done by Excellence, and completely new glass put in.

So, was it outrageously priced, like Frank's was? Nope. Was it realistically priced (John pegs full cages at $3500-4000, when I think he should have said it's likely to run $5000-6000)? Not really.


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Old 12-14-2001, 11:29 AM   #10
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Pat,


It's all good... I don't really want to say you got ripped off, $3500 + is about right for something like that and the fact that you mentioned the "E" word (Excellence) explains a lot.... I know enough about their prices to stay well away (and I've seen their work to make an honest un-biased opinion).

On that note, I'd appreciate it if you don't talk to John about this thread at all... call it 2-faced, but as long as he's the chief instuctor at BMWCCC schools, I have to stay in his good book.

Thanks.
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Old 12-14-2001, 11:43 AM   #11
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That's a given...

Randy,

Hey, that goes for both of us. Between John and Steve, they do essentially 95% of the work to my car.

As well, I play b-ball with both of them every Tuesday, and I also happen to sit on both the driving school committee and the council for the Trillium chapter of BMWCC.

John's not the vindictive type, but still, I'm sure we both know some BMW instructors who have 'stuck the knife' in John's back. He hasn't really done anything about it, but what goes around, comes around.

Yes, the "E" word is expensive, but to their credit, I had the same list of stuff checked out elsewhere, and some guys wouldn't even bid on it! I gave them quotes from Excellence, and these guys came in 25% higher than E. So I ended up going with Excellence in the end, since I know they'll end up doing good work.

So, are you go-karting again this winter, or what?


Pat
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Old 12-14-2001, 12:31 PM   #12
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Re: That's a given...

Quote:
Originally posted by Bad-Karma
Randy,


So, are you go-karting again this winter, or what?


Pat


HELL YEAH!!


I can't wait.... what better place to take out your frustrations and see what the "instuctors" are really made of with (some-what) evenly matched cars!

I must obviously know you if you're active with the club... Have we met (I have a bad memory)? What car do you drive? Last name? PM me if you want.
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