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Old 07-04-2002, 09:41 PM   #31
SickFinga
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yep that's what I'm trying to say downshifting from any gear to lower and you know that with downshifting overrev your engine is simply stupid. Ofcause nothing will happened is you are driving 10km/h in5th and downshift to 1st.


e36 m3 2nd gear takes you up to ~99km/h

Kirasir, I dunno sh*t about racing, but I'n pretty sure you don't downshift at those speeds to 2nd gear.
ever saw a video where guy accidently downshifts from 3rd(at the rev limiter) to 2nd? let me tell you, you don't want that. Like
Bad-Karma said, you don't want that valve meet your pistons.

Kirasir, if you ask me what would I do, I woud just ress the brake pedal, lower my speed to about 180 and downshift to 4th, and continue doing that till second gear.



KJ-M3, can you post what are the top speeds in Type R in every gear?
for my car it is apprx.
1st - 60
2nd - 100
3rd - 140
4th - 190
5 - no idea
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Old 07-04-2002, 10:43 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by KJ-M3


That is definitely not true for all cars...

I did 5th to 2nd downshifts all the time in my Integra Type-R.

Going at 60-80 km/h in 5th gear, I would downshift to 2nd (Say to do a quick pass or to race someone) all the time. 2nd gear goes up to 100 km/h. As long as you downshift into 2nd going LESS than 100 km/h (in my old car's case) you'll be fine.

I had the car 4 years, and the engine was always fine, and the tranny NEVER had any problems with Synchro's. Furthermore, I put OVER 120,000 kms on the car and I never babied it. The car was tracked numerous times and spent almost a year of it's life Turbocharged.
I'm talking about driving on the track, not on the street. People can get away with really stupid stuff on the street, that would blow an engine on the track.

Still, it makes little sense to spend all that time lugging the engine in 5th gear around town, particularly when the power band for the engine is sitting much higher.

If you're driving so slow that you can easily downshift from 5th to 2nd without mechanically over-revving the engine, then you're driving around town with your motor lugging. This is particularly true for small displacement (ie, low torque) 4 and 6 cylinder engines. Lugging an engine around when you're below the start of the torque curve tends to run the engine rich, and carbon up the motor. A better idea is to drive around in 4th gear, since at 50 km/h, fuel economy isn't going to vary much from 4th to 5th gear.

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Old 07-04-2002, 10:52 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by KIRASIR
I understand you have a lot of track experience, and that you are good driver. Then could you please give us your opinion regarding this scenario:

1) You are at the track racing against time
2) At the end of the straight doing ~200km/h
3) You are about to enter a 180 degree turn, very tight
4) The entry speed should be no more than 70km/h for this turn, and for your car.

Your actions?

SL


200 km/h would probably have most cars near the high end of 4th gear, and not necessarily 5th. However, even in 5th, you NEVER downshift directly from 5th to 2nd deliberately. If you do, guess what, you're now picking up little pieces of pistons out of your engine bay, as there is no device short of an automatic transmission (or clutchless manual) which can prevent a mechanical over-rev. Those BMW engines just aren't designed to run at 9000+ RPM...

Most good drivers will downshift 5th-4th, 4th-3rd in that scenario, doing the heel/toe dance twice. It's a scenario in which a lightweight flywheel comes in handy, as you can maximize your ability to match revs in the minimal amount of time. Anyhow, a scenario like this is probably something like Turn 4 at Mosport into Turn 5. At the exit of 4, I'm doing about 200 Km/h (redline in 4th...), and downshifting to 3rd. Once my new diff is in, I'll be running through turn 4 in 5th gear, which means I'll need to downshift twice going into turn 5 (which is about a 85 km/h turn).

As well, even at 70 km/h, there isn't much need to drop to 2nd gear. In 2nd, you're near the end of your torque curve, and will have to shift in the middle of the corner back up to 3rd (which is a bad idea, generally...).

If you stay in 3rd through the corner, then you can utilize the full torque curve, and avoid the wasted time of downshifting a third time in the corner.

This is the same reason why so called *power-shifting* is an absolutely useless idea on the track (and a waste of time on the street as well). Shifting without the clutch saves ZERO time on the track, and opens up LOTS of opportunity to a blown shift, either up or down. When I used to run FF-2000 cars at Shannonville (et al), we would measure how much time we would lose in a blown shift. Each and every time, best case scenario, was 8 seconds. For the 1/10th of a second you might actually gain from powershifting, you have the potential to lose 8+ seconds. A tenth of a second is minimal to make up on a lap, but 8 seconds is a HUGE margin, should you find yourself suddenly down by that much.


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Last edited by GR8 Ride; 07-04-2002 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 07-05-2002, 10:46 AM   #34
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Power Shifting is shifting WITHOUT taking your foot off the gas, but you STILL use the clutch! I think there was some confusion.
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Old 07-05-2002, 10:47 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by SickFinga
KJ-M3, can you post what are the top speeds in Type R in every gear?
for my car it is apprx.
1st - 60
2nd - 100
3rd - 140
4th - 190
5 - no idea
1st - 60
2nd - 100
3rd - 155
4th - 200 (approx).
5 - 240
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Old 07-05-2002, 10:48 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by KJ-M3
Power Shifting is shifting WITHOUT taking your foot off the gas, but you STILL use the clutch! I think there was some confusion.

hmm how do you call it when you don't use the clutch to shift gears?
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Old 07-05-2002, 12:00 PM   #37
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my bad, whats the point in power shifting than? when you push the clutch the revs will shoot way up and than when thecar is back in gear wont you have hesitation and a real ugly jerk action?
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Old 07-05-2002, 12:56 PM   #38
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My point exactly. IE, there is NO point in powershifting your car.

There are two flavours of powershifting; shifting without taking your foot off the gas, which has the result you've indicated, and shifting without using the clutch (which tends to be hard on gearsets, and is prone to mis-shifts).

Either one is a waste of time, on the street, and especially on the track.


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Old 07-06-2002, 10:13 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bad-Karma
My point exactly. IE, there is NO point in powershifting your car.

There are two flavours of powershifting; shifting without taking your foot off the gas, which has the result you've indicated, and shifting without using the clutch (which tends to be hard on gearsets, and is prone to mis-shifts).

Either one is a waste of time, on the street, and especially on the track.


Pat
Powershifting (if you shift fast enough) won't cause the rev's to go up that much. If your clutch can hold the power, you can feel a big surge after the shift. It's good for a .1 second or so improvement in your 1/4 mile time. I don't use it since I think the wear and tear on the car is not worth the .1 second advantage.
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Old 07-28-2002, 01:58 PM   #40
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Re: E30 vs. CLK 430

Quote:
Originally posted by MatyBMW
I don't know a lot about the CLK 430. But I do know that it is a fast car.

A CLK challenged me on 16th and kennedy the other night for a couple of stop lights. The results were better than i expected.

I thought he would blow me out of the water but one light I got a head of him and beat him. This was probably due to my quick shifting and double clutching. I'm not sure why he was lagging behind but i managed to take him. The next run, he was a head of me about a car length until 80km/h and then 1.5 car lengths until 120km/h.

Wondering what the horse power is on those CLK's. It appeared to be a 2001.
The guy accross the street from me has the CLK430 AMG

ITs DAmn FAST !!! and like 120 G's
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Old 08-21-2002, 09:20 PM   #41
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Umm, are you referring to a CLK 55? I think that's the only real AMG CLK - others just have the AMG body kit.
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Old 08-25-2002, 06:19 AM   #42
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I got to admit you guys crack me up when it comes to driving a manual car .

So of you have a good understanding of then like Bad-Karma.
I guess it becaus eyou mainly brought up driving Auto and pass your driving tests with these, them teach yourselfs how to drive a manual car.
Over here most cars are manual an if you pass your driving test in an Auto your not allowed to drive a manual without re taking your test in one.

It seem to come up att the time double clutching, power shifting, adn that pressing the clutch in while accelerating thing LOL.
What the hell is that suppose to do other than wear your clutch out.
If anything your going to lose time as your taking the drive/ power away from the wheels.

The Fast and the Furious has a lot to answer to. Remember guys it was a film as it might not be true what there saying.
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