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Old 07-12-2012, 10:53 AM   #16
SiR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30 View Post
.......that or the buyers are idiots.
thats just it. They largely are...and they are posers. Thats the articles point.

Obviously any car maker can put out a car like that(and they do) and tools still fork out the money for it. Not because of what it truly represents. But to pretend. Reminds me of the Nick cage line from gone in 60 seconds about being a self indulgent wiener with too much bloody money.

The M brand is supposed to be about motoring enjoyment (among other) things and the new cars (albeit putting down good numbers) have lost a lot of their soul and "feel" which M cars were known for.

You want a pure numbers car? ok they are doing that fine (as is everyone else with these silly hp wars) but they have lost their way. Thats the articles point.

Appealing to the masses is not what an M car is supposed to do. Is that the way to maximize profits? Obviously it is and bmw has chosen that route and thats a sad thing.
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Old 07-12-2012, 11:40 AM   #17
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Well I think that's the problem; all these people arguing about what an M car should be rather than taking it for what it is. By extension of the original author's argument all M cars should be mid-engined supercars. Maybe the fact that the actual first M car the E9 3.0 CSL was so cool it didn't even need an M badge supports his argument I don't know, but he conveniently forgets that the next "real" M car badged as such was the M635CSi which when brought to North America as the M6 came with a full leather interior including headliner and a rear air-conditioning unit(!) - in 1987. You can't get more GT autobahn cruiser than that and BMW never raced them either. And the E28 M5 was only notable for its speed because it had 4 doors. Before that, neither E12 nor E28 M535i had an M engine in them. So super-light race-bred track cars is revisionist history. Sport-tuned versions of existing models with higher price-tags is more accurate overall.

I highly doubt anyone who enjoys driving an E30 M3 is going to like driving a new M5, piped in exhaust noise or not. And submit that the opposite is probably true as well. What's the problem with that?

And as for the FRS, I'd need to do the math but I'm guessing the cheapest M car ever sold would cost at least 2 1/2 times a much in today's dollars. Even the e30 M3 cost almost twice as much in 1988. BMW if they ever have, hasn't made a car like that for 40 years. But then again hardly anybody else has either.
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Old 07-12-2012, 01:30 PM   #18
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I've owned an e34 M5, I currently own e39 M5's and I've driven or ridden in a variety of other M and non M BMW's. Having said that, there isn't a car that I desire more, today, than an F10 M5 or Alpina B7.

The only issue is, I cannot afford them. If I had the means, I would own every gen M5 produced (maybe except the e60) and use them, appreciate them and enjoy them as they were intended.

Evolution of a Brand, accept it or move on.
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Old 07-12-2012, 03:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwm5lover View Post
I've owned an e34 M5, I currently own e39 M5's and I've driven or ridden in a variety of other M and non M BMW's. Having said that, there isn't a car that I desire more, today, than an F10 M5 or Alpina B7.

The only issue is, I cannot afford them. If I had the means, I would own every gen M5 produced (maybe except the e60) and use them, appreciate them and enjoy them as they were intended.

Evolution of a Brand, accept it or move on.
Thank you, this person has owned 2 of the greatest master pieces in BMW's history and he still shows respect to where its deserved to the F10 M5. My personal favourite is the E60 M5 because I believe it is the last V10 BMW will ever make for the rest of time. Due to a variety of reasons mostly to the ever tightening Co2 emission regulations.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gleb View Post
I had no idea that BMW made cars after 1991.
thats because everything in russia new or old looks like its been made before 1991
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:13 PM   #21
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Read the article again and again and then some more, cause you all seem to be missing the point.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #22
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thats because everything in russia new or old looks like its been made before 1991
I wonder how many articles will be written about E9x M3, F10, etc... 30 years from now. I bet that even the E36 M3 will not get a mention.
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Old 07-12-2012, 04:24 PM   #23
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f10 m5 is a land barge...and besides it looking half decent I have no interest in it. I think one can easily appreciate the engineering and numbers behind it...much like that of the gtr. But I wouldnt want to own one at all. No thanks.

E39 M5 yes but thats pushing the weight and size for me. E60 has a gold engine inside a yacht too.

the point of the article is that the evolution of the brand is the wrong direction and that they sold out. Rather than cater to what they are known for they are making cars that are more appreciated by the posers and soccer moms. of course that maximizes profits but thats a terrible line to take imho.

and the guy he talked to shows the sillyness behind it" I don't know, I won't be working here when that happens" Such a selfish bunch the world has become.

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Old 07-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #24
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you guys know who Bill Caswell is right?
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
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I wonder how many articles will be written about E9x M3, F10, etc... 30 years from now. I bet that even the E36 M3 will not get a mention.
you dont know what will happen 30 years from now but you can believe those will be classics. the young will look to the future the old will look to the past.
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Old 07-13-2012, 12:51 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by SiR View Post
the point of the article is that the evolution of the brand is the wrong direction and that they sold out. Rather than cater to what they are known for they are making cars that are more appreciated by the posers and soccer moms. of course that maximizes profits but thats a terrible line to take imho.
And they had NO choice about it! I bet you anything that BMW would NOT even be still here today if they didnt! How many cars can you sell to the "purist" and track junkys!!!??? We all know what one. At that point they would have been taken over by Kia who sells cars for everyday people. Exactly what happened with Saab, they try TOO hard in the wrong direction, and where are they now!?

Like it or not, it was inevitable, and i rather have this than no success at all...
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Old 07-13-2012, 09:52 AM   #27
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I disagree. There regular models sell very well and they sell the most of those. They have done quite well because of it. Look how many 323's and 328's you see out there.

BMW could easily kept at least a few of the M cars more purist. No question. But they chose to go balls out with the luxo barges.




Ill tell you one thing seeing the varying responses on different forums where this has popped up is quite interesting.
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:22 AM   #28
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you guys know who Bill Caswell is right?
Yeah, what about him?
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:31 AM   #29
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hes the one who wrote the article...
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Old 07-13-2012, 10:32 AM   #30
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I can understand the view points of many about how ///M is losing its purity, however, I think that this is a good set up for the company as a whole to be able to start making supercars, the financial backing of all of the success and profitability as of late will allow cash flow to allow for special projects. Look at the i8, the M1 hommage.

I'm a realist, and i do believe that overall BMW has not lost it's purity, but rather was forced into staying competitive, and yes BMWs are starting to become more "regular" because everyone else is stepping up their game. MB has done so much since 2008 with styling and performance to stay competitive, same thing with Audi, they have stepped up their game so much which has made BMWs appear more "regular". There are industry standards and regulation that must also be followed.
And if they can release special editions that may be no different than the original cars, so be it, more cash to do more awesome stuff. the BMW Welt won't build itself, the epicness that is the European delivery may not exist if they stick to purists only.

Why dont we start shitting on McDonald's for trying to fix it's image and renovate all its restaurants to look half decent, offer Wifi and offer somewhat better food then before? afterall they are only doing it to boost sales...

Everyone has given the current M3 praise and most car reviewers always agree that the brand has been getting better and better every time.

Not many people would "enjoy" living with an E30 even though we all love them, we want the comfort of auto AC, we want bluetooth this and power that, we want a screen to tell us where to go, we dont want a rattle here and crackle there. You're surprised that the weight and size of a car has been increasing when all we have done is want more and more and more? Oh that's right, BMW is the only car brand in the world that is doing this... Yes, purists will disagree, but they are far and wide. the ///M brand is just that, a brand, and the most successful one at that. If BMW starts losing sales and people don't give a shit about ///M in the future then they will adjust accordingly, that is what they are in the business for.

Purists, go take a look at the review of the new M135i. See what is being said about that car... yes an ///M badge plastered on a bloody hatch... and what was the response??

Wake up, either love it or hate it, crying about it won't change anything. Want to make a difference, don't buy it! If nobody buys the special editions, they wont happen, but they sell every single one... if you were in their shoes, would you do anything different? I sure as hell wouldn't.
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