Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > Misc > Off-topic
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-23-2012, 09:47 AM   #1
Colombian
2nd Gear Newbie
 
Colombian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Burlington, ON
Posts: 336
For everyone who loves their APPLE products



From another forum.. something to think about when you looking to upgrade your IPAD , or IPHONE !! Also keep in mind that this company is the most valuable in the world today and have more cash in hand than many countries in countries and lately been suing everyone else because they apparently using their ideas (aka patents) and their loosing profit !!

" ABC shows off harsh working conditions at Foxconn
Written by Andre Yoskowitz @ 22 Feb 2012 19:51

Last night, ABC had a Nightline special which reported on the working conditions in the Foxconn plants at Shenzhen and Chengdu.
Each supply plant makes Apple products like the iPad and iPhone. The special, which was only 17 minutes long, confirmed what many already believed; that workers are extremely overworked and underpaid.

Mashable has collected a great amount of facts from the report, some of which are pretty shocking. For the most part, however, the conditions were not as horrible as most media would have you believe.

First, each worker makes $1.78 per hour, and live in a cramped dorm room on the factory's campus for $17 per month. Each worker has seven roommates. Lunch costs $0.70 for meat and rice, and each worker gets two one-hour meal breaks during their 12-hour shift.

To create just one iPad, it takes five days and 375 people. However, workers can make 300,000 iPad cameras for the device in just two 12-hour shifts. Some workers create the aluminum exterior design (with Apple logo) at the rate of about 10,000 per hour.

Some workers were as young as 13, but most were in their late teens, said the report.

Despite the conditions, the report showed 3000 youths lining up outside the factory hoping for work. Foxconn expects to hire 2400 of them as demand for Apple products remains through the roof. "
Colombian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 10:21 AM   #2
cormier
6th Gear Member
 
cormier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: St. George, ON
Posts: 1,622
Agreed, harsh working conditions are terrible, and no one deserves that. On the other side of the debate, if a countries labour laws are so lax, of course companies will take advantage. With globalization today, companies have to do all they can to cut costs and stay competitive. Not saying its ideal, but how can we expect them not to? I think it falls on governments like china who allow their workers to be exploited like this for the good of their nation.
__________________

cormier is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 10:34 AM   #3
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,246
That's a bullshit slant to attack Apple. Foxconn makes all kinds of things, including all 3 of the popular game consoles.

With regards to Apple's lawsuit legitimacy, if anyone has any doubt that the modern smartphone market is a giant iphone ripoff, I propose to you a graphic showing what phones looked like before (when everyone incl Motorola and HTC, insisted that a smartphone without a real keyboard would NEVER work) and after the iphone. It's no one's business how much money they are or aren't making. Bottom line is the design is their patented IP and it's being ripped off harder than the lightbulb.



Also, before/after ipad

__________________
BigD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 10:55 AM   #4
SiR
Vtec just kicked in
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: TO
Posts: 2,769
i stayed up to watch it.
was no different than any other factory in china..and im not fond of apple.

if theres something to hate on apple.

why the hell did steve jobs not donate to charity like many others do? (gates, buffet etc)

and if its such a wonderful company how are they not on the forbes top companies to work for?

those are legitimate ...the factory stuff...standard chinese practice.
__________________
-||Old Crayons||-
SiR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 10:56 AM   #5
careless7
Drivin' new whips weekly
 
careless7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 761
Welcome to the modern marketplace where consumers demand cheap goods for the "have it all" generation. Much like the "instant home" trend in housing, goods become cheaper and made cheaper to meet this demand for everyone to fill every room in their house... typically on credit.

Not like our parents generation.
__________________
careless7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 11:24 AM   #6
Colombian
2nd Gear Newbie
 
Colombian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Burlington, ON
Posts: 336
i think the military probably had these things laying around 10 years ago way before these people made their iphones and itouches .. cell phones, touch screen keyboards, gps, small high resolution cameras, etc..

they aint suing them to get royalties!!!


but hey.. i give you that they are copying it pretty good.. that is called good chinese reverse engineering !!! The third one in the bottom looks exactly the same.. too bad it runs windows. It is probably really slow ...
Colombian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 11:34 AM   #7
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiR View Post
why the hell did steve jobs not donate to charity like many others do? (gates, buffet etc)
The bio book talks about this. He tried but he found that the charities he became involved with would try to use him without his permission to raise money and mostly he was repulsed by the way the other "celebrities" acted who donated to charity. He gave lots of money for a while but told no one. And he observed how other people who did this really only did it for personal gain, either for tax purposes or bragging rights (which is a good point - why do you know about all these other big philanthropists? because they make sure it's known).

The other reason is the general impression I got from the book - the guy was actually a very serious piece of shit with major mental malfunctions. He may be a technological visionary but a man on a pedestal or a role model of any kind he is not. I'm pretty surprised they let the book go as is, it doesn't just "show his human side" like some people say, it paints a very grim picture of him. I was mainly just left feeling sorry for anyone he crossed paths with.
__________________
BigD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 11:35 AM   #8
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by careless7 View Post
Welcome to the modern marketplace where consumers demand cheap goods for the "have it all" generation. Much like the "instant home" trend in housing, goods become cheaper and made cheaper to meet this demand for everyone to fill every room in their house... typically on credit.

Not like our parents generation.
If you don't like our generation then GET OUT
__________________
BigD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 12:15 PM   #9
325isdan
5th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: GTA
Posts: 1,145
And China wants as free trade agreement with Canada. Could you imagine, if that ever happens say goodbye to all our labour jobs.
325isdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 12:31 PM   #10
Quack
Wheelman
 
Quack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,073
Send a message via MSN to Quack
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD View Post
That's a bullshit slant to attack Apple. Foxconn makes all kinds of things, including all 3 of the popular game consoles.

With regards to Apple's lawsuit legitimacy, if anyone has any doubt that the modern smartphone market is a giant iphone ripoff, I propose to you a graphic showing what phones looked like before (when everyone incl Motorola and HTC, insisted that a smartphone without a real keyboard would NEVER work) and after the iphone. It's no one's business how much money they are or aren't making. Bottom line is the design is their patented IP and it's being ripped off harder than the lightbulb.



Also, before/after ipad

you think everyone is ripping off the iPhone, guess you never seen the LG Prada phone that was introduced in 2006 & then sold in Janaury 2007, before the first iPhone was even for sale, it was a large display touch screen phone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada and that isn't the only one, there were large touch screen phones back in the early 90's as well, just not practical & affordable at that time.

also the pic comparing tablets, you choose pics of PC tablets, even PC tablets today are still bigger than normal tablets, and besides Apple didn't invent tablets that are small, haven't you seen 2001: Space Odyssey, they had flat rectangler tablets in that movie, what about Star Trek, the list goes all.
__________________

Maxbimmer Drama, You Gotta Love It
Quack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 12:53 PM   #11
Kal
maxRealtor
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Posts: 3,756
Send a message via MSN to Kal
Meh. I still wear Nikes so who am I to complain.
Kal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 01:09 PM   #12
BigD
the misanthropist
 
BigD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: a house
Posts: 6,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quack View Post
you think everyone is ripping off the iPhone, guess you never seen the LG Prada phone that was introduced in 2006 & then sold in Janaury 2007, before the first iPhone was even for sale, it was a large display touch screen phone http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LG_Prada and that isn't the only one, there were large touch screen phones back in the early 90's as well, just not practical & affordable at that time.

also the pic comparing tablets, you choose pics of PC tablets, even PC tablets today are still bigger than normal tablets, and besides Apple didn't invent tablets that are small, haven't you seen 2001: Space Odyssey, they had flat rectangler tablets in that movie, what about Star Trek, the list goes all.
I don't remember any large screen phones, or screen phones in the early 90s (well I guess Zack Morris had an LCD number readout).

Regarding the LG and any other possible devices, the point isn't the large screen but the interface. One of the major patent infringements that everyone ripped off without blinking is the slide to unlock. The iphone was the first device to basically move the entire UI to the touchscreen, and the slide to unlock, while seemingly trivial now, is one of the things that made this feasible. When the other makers said that a qwerty-less smartphone would never work, they were right, which is why other than exceptions like that, there weren't any (I think there were a few keyboard-less winmo phones but they were expectedly shit, HTC touch comes to mind). It indeed couldn't work well, not the way they did it. Now, other than for some BB addicts, there's no other way.

I have to admit that I resisted the iphone for a long time, which speaks poorly of me since I'm a software guy specializing in UI. I've tried keyboard-less smartphones and hated them, assuming the iphone would be no different. So I stuck to the Nokia and Treo. Then before getting a tytn2, I tried an iphone and became a believer.
__________________
BigD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 02:10 PM   #13
DANIMAL
TYRE ETR
 
DANIMAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 964
I believe people are not looking at pay objectively.

Lets look at the math;
Foxconn employees make $1.78/hr USD. (According to the reports)
1 Chinese yuan = $0.15 USD (taken with today's exchange rate)

So per hour Foxconn employees make
$1.78 USD = $11.21 Chinese yuan

Now lets look at this compared to the cost of living like company lunch and dorm rental fees.

Lunch:
$0.70US = $4.40 in Chinese Yuan
Worked out to a percentage against hourly pay we get the cost of lunch to be approximately 39.2%.

Assume that I am working a job in Ontario making minimum wage ($10.25/hr) and I go for lunch at subway and get the $5 special which after tax works out to $5.65. So my lunch cost me about 55% of my hourly wage. So Lunch as a percentage of what I make in Ontario costs just over 15% more than in China.

Housing:
$15 US/Month = $94.47 Chinese yuan/month @ today's rate
which means that a Foxconn employee would have to work ~8.5 hours to pay for it. I don't even need to to the math to know that a minimum wage person in Ontario would have to work almost 50 hours to pay for some of the lowest cost rentals in the province(Windsor @ 490, Sudbury @ 515). Of course that is all taken without accounting for income taxes.

So you can see that while the pay is very low when put into North American currencies, it all relative to the cost of living. If the Chinese gov. allowed the Yuan to fully appreciate the pay discrepancy would almost completely disappear. This will be a real issue that China will face at some point. As you may imagine if the advantage of western currencies is removed from the Chinese labour market so too is the competitive advantage. This should lead to a lot of jobs being relocated back to developed countries as it would be the same, or less(due to less transportation of goods), cost to manufacture.

Conditions, I agree, seem unacceptable to western cultures but if looked at objectively are not that bad either. I am by no means saying I want to go work at Foxconn. Our cultures have different ideas of how much "personal space" an individual needs. If you have ever been pushed around at a Casio by Chinese tourists you have already experienced this delta. I don't pretend to assume these workers are happy to live/sleep with 14 other people. I am simply saying its relative; what we perceive as 'horrendous' may only be considered 'not great' by Chinese standards. There are many cultures that where sharing rooms/houses with multiple people/families is considered normal.

I think the real atrocities are more related to work hours/breaks/minimum working ages. It should be noted that conditions/ages/hours/pay were common problems shared with western countries during the industrial revolution. It was not until the rise of unions that everything promptly changed. Almost all the workers rights we have today exist because of that process.

I am not saying everything in the Chinese labour market is peachy, it is not, simply pointing out that it only seems extraordinarily bad because of currencies/cultural differences coupled with sensationalist propaganda to sell the stories.
__________________

Last edited by DANIMAL; 02-23-2012 at 02:16 PM.
DANIMAL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 02:18 PM   #14
dbworld4k
Addict
 
dbworld4k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: YYZ / ORD
Posts: 7,428
^Precisely.

This whole argument is stupid. You need to equate their earnings vs. costs of living to make sense. It's exactly like a stupid debate I had in undergrad. Some hippies were BSing about horrible working conditions and slave labor in Asia, their argument centering on the wages. All I had to do was show what that "low wage" can buy the worker, and game over.
__________________


'02 ///M5 Imola Red / Imola Red '09 335i Alpine White / Coral Red
dbworld4k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2012, 03:18 PM   #15
325isdan
5th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: GTA
Posts: 1,145
Makes you wonder why people immigrate to Canada for a better life.
325isdan is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Maxbimmer Copyright 2001 - 2015