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Old 12-11-2011, 08:56 PM   #76
Blackedout95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmdbley'sBro View Post
you are just pure fk'n troll, aren't you?

dumbass the whole thread is about your glorious leader zee harper converting canada's prison structure into deep south u.s circa 19fk'n35
... right down to wanting chain gangs
No, I mentioned keeping the debate over stiffer sentences in Canada in Canada because you cannot debate Canada's rehab and sentencing guidelines by using US pot laws as an example.

As for your name calling, this must come to an end, why you feel free to so openly use such foul language towards another member is beyond me.

I ask to keep the comparables in Canada and I am a blank blank blank, that will no longer happen!
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:00 PM   #77
sirex
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Originally Posted by Blackedout95 View Post
No, I mentioned keeping the debate over stiffer sentences in Canada in Canada because you cannot debate Canada's rehab and sentencing guidelines by using US pot laws as an example.

As for your name calling, this must come to an end, why you feel free to so openly use such foul language towards another member is beyond me.

I ask to keep the comparables in Canada and I am a blank blank blank, that will no longer happen!
it turns into a name calling competition because that's exactly what you wanted from the get go. Look at every single post you have made in this entire thread, it has been nothing more than flame bait/troll bait the entire time.

And then when we do call you out for being what you are, a moron, you come back and say we should watch out toungue.

You haven't contributed a single sentence to this entire thread worthy of really reading. At least Congregant, (w/e his name is) came late to the thread and wrote something that made sense and DEFENDED His stance and position; which by the way is not too far off from what we've been talking about.

all you've done is talk about how you feel and how its good the laws are tougher.. Great thanks for the ****ing circle jerk. you really contributed a shit ton thanks.

you want to be a retard, then be one. We will just treat you like one.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:05 PM   #78
Blackedout95
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Originally Posted by sirex View Post
it turns into a name calling competition because that's exactly what you wanted from the get go. Look at every single post you have made in this entire thread, it has been nothing more than flame bait/troll bait the entire time.

And then when we do call you out for being what you are, a moron, you come back and say we should watch out toungue.

So let me get this right, I make a statement based on my opinion and if its different than yours I am a troll and set out bait in turn deserving to be called foul and insulting names? I suppose this is a maxbimmer policy, right, youre the gate keeper of determining who you ge to break the rules with.

Ok, got it, thanks.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:22 PM   #79
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ya thats it exactly........................................... ...............................................
thats why the first 3 pages are all face palms after quoting you.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:27 PM   #80
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Punishment and rehabilitation is very much multi-dimensional.

If you knew burglary constitutes 3 months in jail and community service versus 10 years in jail and $50,000 restitution, you are psychologically more willing to commit that crime in times of hardship, because just like jail sentences, the persons motives to commit the crime also vary widely. I think the point here is that the tougher laws will prevent the people who are sitting on the "fence" from making the decision to commit those crimes versus finding other means of getting what they need or want. You can call this the preventative approach.

Then you must consider what punishment constitutes justice. You cannot always punish at the level that the victim will always want, because more times then not they will be thinking emotionally and irrationally wanting the toughest punishment. However the punishment must be upto par with what the general public believes is an acceptable punishment for X crime. It is not always just perpetually and infinitely "tough on crime", it is 'we aren't tough enough on the punishments for some crimes and need to adjust and amend accordingly to constitute justice. Sometimes its the reverse, the punishment is to harsh for the crime. Thus the justice dimension.

Last but certainly not least is the rehabilitation of the person. The majority of the time it is not the persons psychological soundness that caused them to commit the crime, it is often a choice they made. To make that choice they took into account their need to commit the crime (variable) and the associated punishment, because of this the willingness to take the risk is also variable in each scenario. A minority of the people committing the crime is filled up by mentally ill, uneducated, or otherwise mentally unsound people. Our judicial system allows for the defense to claim insanity, and mental illness. As such commonly judges make concessions and allow these people to take classes/groups/therapy/whatever for reduced sentences. The choice is at the judicial level, not at the legislative level.

However! I see a problem when the government starts intervening into legislation that is in the "grey zone". The grey zone to me is where the government begins to try to intervene into my personal liberty. It is not upto the government to protect me against myself. If what I am doing does not directly negatively effect others, then I should not be punished for doing it.

To conclude, I think it is more important to analyze the specific components of each change in tougher sentences, then to just overall say that any legislation that is tougher on crime is automatically bad.

Last edited by noid; 12-11-2011 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:56 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by HavocSteve View Post
Don't forgot to quote Statistics Canada or some other form such as Fox News to back up your findings calegrant. They might think your a moron
OK

What then do you base your "knowledge" on then? and btw a primary source site like stats.on.gov.ca and a media corporation like fox who has been repeatedly UN-legitimatized is pathetic comparison.

So what do you base your position on? what information? from where? if you cannot trust UN studies and government stats which they use for public policies (hence why the other side are saying it doesn't work) from then I am guessing personal experience is what you base yours on?

Personal experience. Do I have to really argue the stupidity of arguing from this standpoint?

Maybe not this. Maybe you believe you think logically and deduce that if you came to the initial conclusion then you are right and everyone is wrong no matter what. So you spend your time UN-ligitimizing peoples sources by comparing them to smut like Fox, which as outlined comparing data and a news corporation is pathetic from the core.

Finally. Not citing sources in which you base your position is fundamentally moronic. Think I can go write a paper and give it to my professor not cited? He'd think I am moronic, and anyone who presents a position and is asked to present reasoning with sources and who repeatedly ignores that request is a simple minded prick that thinks blindly they are right.

So you say tougher crime works. Fine. Someone here showed that it does work, Singapore, where they also had SOCIAL programs in place. Did I mention that the part of the tougher crime that did work was the fricken death penalty for soft drugs?

Nevertheless, it is valid....the main issue is social programs vs. more prison. It works for Singapore and if you truly believe it is the tougher crime part that is the effective aspect than lets adapt it to our culture. Oh wait do we need to? nope because our neighbor to the south has is it in some states and studies done there show capital punishment is not effective.

Anyway the issues seem to be thus:

1.Tougher penalties for drug crimes works. However a plethora of sources have been posted that disagree completely, world wide. Only contrary source to this is Singapore which again I will stress has social programs as well as tougher penalties to stop drug crime. Up for debate on which is truly the more effective, but looking at the sources I mentioned, you would come to the conclusion that it is the social programs.

2.Tougher penalties for serious crimes works. Again same studies show that social programs work more effectively by far than tougher penalties. If you want to argue that the current penalties are not strict enough then thats fine. But to again argue that they will prevent future crimes is wrong.

Spending money to reduce serious crimes and drugs has been overwhelmingly proven to be most effective in social programs, such as education and the likes. Spending money for more prisons and for more people to stay longer in prisons simply removes an obstacle from society longer rather than overcoming it. So money is spent on prisons, however problem of continual creation of more criminals remains.

Does a rapist deserve *X* number of years in prison, up for us to decide.
Does a rapist deserve *X* more number of years in prison to prevent other rapist crimes, fundamentally flawed mentality.

Again reading this thread is funnyy, no one comes here to change their opinion (generally speaking). They come to present theres and if need be defend it, when incapable of defending it they resort to character assassinations and source butchering (ie. comparing .gov sources to fox, again so stupid lol).

Take comfort if you believe more spending on social programs is more effective in dealing with crimes than tougher penalties. This thread has sources to defend that position, and they are not FOX news sources or what some politician claims. They are government sources, independent studies done by a plethora of institutions (like the UN) and all the opposition has done was ignore requests for similar sources. Hell I'll take any source right now just to see if they even have an academic ethic towards the pursuit of knowledge.

I wonder if those idiots would of tasted bitter and metallic to their mothers if they were swallowed and not born
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:04 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Blackedout95 View Post
Good, it doesnt go far enough imo, we should bring back the death penalty.

It's time to star to get serious about punishment, starting.
Yes it's okay in some cases, but more often than not it's useless.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:48 PM   #83
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Well it's a shame you come in at this point after the discussion has been side track to try and bring up new points and mix the conversation up. The track we were on is that TOUGH on CRIME does not work and that people that commit these hard crimes have psychological and DEEP routed issues that being put in a prison system does not fix.

Blackedout is a simpleton/moron/whatever because he'd prefer that someone who commits a crime be put in prison, serve X years and be re-released into society so the cycle continues, rather than solve the problem.

So the answer is yes. If your opinion is "if someone commits a crime they should be put to death" then you are a moron and a simpleton if you think that will solve our problems.


so your stance is we should spend millions upon millions upon millions of dollars on "rehabilitation facilities" so they can sing kumbaya, eat a proper diet, speak with professional physchiatrists and Find out the reason why they raped and killed your 10 year old daughter. Rehabilitate him with therapy through meditation practice, anger management programs and all other unorthodox type of therapies.

THEN.... Once rehabilitated and "fit" for society, release him back into the public where NOONE would hire him (as per you), hope to god that the rehabilitation worked and he wasnt just "faking" it. hope he doesnt "snap"
and put him on social assistance because he cant find work...

No sirex you are the F***'n retard.

obviously you have never been the victim of crime, knock on wood neither have I other then petty theft.
our justice system is way to flawed and we hand out such light sentences its not even funny.

Karma Halmolca the one who killed her sister with Paul bernardo, and watched Paul rape and murder another girl and repeatadly knew of his rapings. who did absolutly nothing about them is free today. eligible for pardon later in 2012 (little fun fact for you sirex 99.9999999 percent of people who apply for pardons get them) she can come to canada, change her name, open a day care centre and take care of your children with out you knowing..

anyone who doesnt want "tough on crime" has never been a victim. plain and simple.
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Old 12-12-2011, 08:20 PM   #84
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You must be homo. You've wrote circle jerk to much. Just sayin'
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:07 PM   #85
sirex
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I deleted my last posts because I don't really want to go into a back and forth name call.

Eric, you're a smart guy. There is a reason why the victims don't prosecute the perpetrators.
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Old 12-12-2011, 09:56 PM   #86
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I deleted my last posts because I don't really want to go into a back and forth name call.
Holy crap I think I finally have sig worthy stuff here lol
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:20 PM   #87
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I deleted my last posts because I don't really want to go into a back and forth name call.

Eric, you're a smart guy. There is a reason why the victims don't prosecute the perpetrators.
Hey maybe they are advocating going back to the origins of law and using Hammurabi's code!

We can respect peoples decision to want to live in the past. Eye for an Eye and all that good stuff. Shit I just remembered that even THEN the prosecuter was not the victim. Dam I guess they want go back even farther....LOL!
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Old 12-12-2011, 10:23 PM   #88
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Hey maybe they are advocating going back to the origins of law and using Hammurabi's code!

We can respect peoples decision to want to live in the past. Eye for an Eye and all that good stuff. Shit I just remembered that even THEN the prosecuter was not the victim. Dam I guess they want go back even farther....LOL!
Can't have a conversation with people that use emotion as the guiding principle.
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:45 PM   #89
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Old 12-13-2011, 06:55 PM   #90
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++1
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