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Old 12-06-2011, 06:27 PM   #16
Blackedout95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Hey, I don't know if you follow any news any where in the world however many places have tried the approach of getting tough on crime. The reality is, tough on crime does not work.
Nor does soft.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:28 PM   #17
sirex
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Originally Posted by Blackedout95 View Post
Nor does soft.
Actually thats where you are wrong because as stated and stats show that crime rates in Canada have fallen substantially.

So how then does it make sense to implement tougher crime laws?
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:36 PM   #18
Blackedout95
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Ok so rates have fallen, great but for those who have killed, raped, stolen etc why should their sentences be based on the rate of crime? Do you follow me...

I am not saying that tougher mandatory sentences will prevent crimes rather the individuals who do break the law get punished appropriately. The time one serves in this country when compared to others is still a joke. The fact a child molester may do less time is a joke, things are still a joke.

There is no way a guy should be able to rent a house, grow weed, distribute it, steal hydro, destroy a home that isn't his and walk away in 6 months-1 yr to do it again, sorry but that is not punishment.

Likewise when it comes to murder, rape and so on, this country is still very light on sentencing even with this bill.

So again, I do not believe this new mandatory stuff will stop 99% of the would be theives but at least it will lock their ass up longer.

Here is an example and something I saw first hand. Lets say I am walking by your home and don't like the way you looked at me. I approach you, start a fight, bash your head in, break teeth, decide to destroy your car etc. I spend no more than a day in jail, pay a fine and laugh my ass off all the way home if a first offence, sickening bro. I may have cost you thpousands out of pocket, time, front teeth, scars etc and I sat in jail a day.

Second time may get me 1-3 months, yipppeeee, it still isn't enough. I am not pro big brother, cops, laws and so on, I am pro punishing those who deserve it appropriately. This bill is aimed at one segment, they need to pass more.
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Old 12-06-2011, 06:58 PM   #19
sirex
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I would say that I think that you don't know the law as well as you think you do if you think your anecdote is reality. You say you witnessed it first hand but I don't know that for truth.

Also, if you follow what the bill does from some of the links I posted you would have further seen that marijuana growers get more sentencing than child molesters.

I think that ultimately what your self and others have failed to grasp by bill c10 are the following:

a) There was no open debate in parliament
b) Conservative rushed this bill to say "see we got it done in 100 days as promised"
c) The bill doesn't really follow along with what Canadians truly want.
d) Crime rates have fallen dramatically and what the real focus needs to be on is rehabilitation and discovering why people do these acts in the first place so we can stop it from happening period.
e) The federal government is again loading this on to the provinces to foot the bill. E.G. the province has to pay to make more prisons.

Interestingly enough a Conversavite MP caught drinking and driving not long ago. Where is the tough on crime bill for that? These tough on crime non-sense bills are just that, non-sense. While our amazing government takes free rides from our military choppers and gets off scott free from any crimes they commit.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:06 PM   #20
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I know it very well, first hand like I said, my anecdote is reality.

I did see they now would get a tougher sentence than a molester, why I mention that is a joke and we need more segments targeted now.

For me it is not a political issue, nor do I care about paying more to see those who deserve it pay more time.

As for rehabilitation that can be debated, I recall hearing most recommit, why, cause thats what POS do, over and over. Truth is most are bad people most of their lives. This behaviour is nothing new, lots of time and studies done to help them and no incredible breakthrough will take place to help stop a persons mind set. I personally would gladly pay more to see them where they belong and our society safer becaue of it, locked up.

You brought a chopper ride into the discussion, I know why, you have an issue with the government and how things work, me too! But for me it is about the issue at the core.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:15 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackedout95 View Post
Ya, I am a troll for wanting to see tougher laws :eyeroll:
Your reasoning behind what you want is troll
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:22 PM   #22
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Your reasoning behind what you want is troll
Ya know what I give up, you won me over, how is it I didnt see it before. Easier sentencing for all!

I think your reasoning isn't because your a troll son, it's because your young and dumb. Now go find out how to cover you car insurance, didn't you JUST get a DL. Does your mother even know you are using her minutes online to post?
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:43 PM   #23
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Don't worry Blackout95, I for one agree with you. With sirex and South in power, we should all run around with AK47's and shoot up neighborhoods because we wont get punished! Santa please bring me a nuke or something like a grenade launcher so I can come back to T.O. and kill people!.. Just the rich though.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:52 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Blackedout95 View Post
Ya know what I give up, you won me over, how is it I didnt see it before. Easier sentencing for all!

I think your reasoning isn't because your a troll son, it's because your young and dumb. Now go find out how to cover you car insurance, didn't you JUST get a DL.
Hey hey hey, I gave you the chance to provide the information for:


"1. As for drugs, this damn country has been WAY too soft for way too long and we see it ruining neighborhoods.
2. You have no idea what % of homes in neighborhoods grow in Canada, its huge, why because we're soft.
3. You clearly don't know what this country did before you were born and based on the number of foreign criminals should have kept doing."


1. Prove it
2. Prove it
3. Prove it

See unlike you I have dealt with this general issue of severe punishment as a deterrent for crime. In either case if you truly want to learn more, then the 4 links below are a good way to start. I will also garantee you that your 1-3 list won't be anywhere on there for good reason, because your wrong. In fact so wrong that I think you are trolling, its something of a a common sense.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/...es/studies.htm
http://www.cfdp.ca/trends04.pdf
http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/co...y/collin-e.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2251138/

Look this common sense I speak of is even reflected in the CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/checkup/main-blog/...er-crime-laws/

"The opposition says it will result in many more people being imprisoned which will be too expensive and not make us any safer. They say more mandatory sentences and more people in prisons represents an American-style of justice with that has not worked south of the border. And they say the crime rate is dropping so why waste more time and resources to step up the battle.
The Conservatives respond that not all crime is dropping and some of their measures are quite specific and long overdue. They also point out that Canada's rate of incarceration is far below that of the US and even below the majority of developed countries in the world ...so, there is lots of room for adjustment.

The debate over the crime bill has been bitter ...and to some extent partisan. Even some provinces ...Quebec and Ontario for example, have jumped into the fray suggesting they will refuse to pay for the extra costs associated with the bill.

EDIT: so if being young and stupid means saying your 1-3 list is wrong to the point of common sense and then even entertaining your stupidity with a plethora of sources then fine. Do not mistake my position, I think it is a problem, not one as large that is being out to be made by the conservative and the solution for this problem they are proposing does not work. Severer penalties does not deter crime.

Last edited by South; 12-06-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 12-06-2011, 07:52 PM   #25
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I'm not really passionate in either way for c-10, but I am thrilled as all hell for c-19, finally we have sensible government who wants to treat law abiding citizens as such and treat criminals as criminals.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:06 PM   #26
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Don't worry Blackout95, I for one agree with you. With sirex and South in power, we should all run around with AK47's and shoot up neighborhoods because we wont get punished! Santa please bring me a nuke or something like a grenade launcher so I can come back to T.O. and kill people!.. Just the rich though.
Ah yes the exaggeration beyond and above the issue at hand to character assassinate someone. Classic.

Issue is drugs. Drugs operate on a supply and demand basis. More education and social programs will reduce drug offenders, cut the market for suppliers to get into, thus indirectly stopping drug dealers from being able to commit the crimes. Simply giving longer sentences for drug dealers creates a gap in the supply where someone else can fill.

Tougher penalties for crimes of this scope is what the US has been doing forever really. Doesn't work does it. So that sets precedent for us to try another approach. Now I have been saying that the 1-3 list that the other guy is propagating as justification for this new law is wrong. Again common sense should kick in and ask itself "oh wait well what are the conservatives saying for the justification, that 1-3 list is no where to be found", or "uhm if the US has followed similar harsher sentencing to prevent crimes in neighborhoods has it worked?, where the obvious answer be no".

So if you agree with that guy and his 1-3 basis then I can change my mind if you can prove those things. Its pretty simple request.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:21 PM   #27
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Is your mother now replying for you?

j/k but not really.

I am exhausted discussing the matter tbh but Ill attempt it briefly

I have been heavy in RE for years and go over stats all the time, Canada has one of the largest problems with grow ops, FACT!
Canada also being soft was rated a top country of choice for criminals when considering a move or setting up an operation, FACT!
I believe if foreigners knew we had a death penalty and stiffer drug sentencing it would prevent some from making the trip, it works when they avoid the US.

Good day young man.
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Old 12-06-2011, 08:45 PM   #28
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yes because those tough laws in texas have really stopped the cartels.


hard to say what stats, research you've been doing.
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:00 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Blackedout95 View Post
Is your mother now replying for you?

j/k but not really.

I am exhausted discussing the matter tbh but Ill attempt it briefly

I have been heavy in RE for years and go over stats all the time, Canada has one of the largest problems with grow ops, FACT!
Canada also being soft was rated a top country of choice for criminals when considering a move or setting up an operation, FACT!
I believe if foreigners knew we had a death penalty and stiffer drug sentencing it would prevent some from making the trip, it works when they avoid the US.

Good day young man.
"1. As for drugs, this damn country has been WAY too soft for way too long and we see it ruining neighborhoods.
2. You have no idea what % of homes in neighborhoods grow in Canada, its huge, why because we're soft.
3. You clearly don't know what this country did before you were born and based on the number of foreign criminals should have kept doing."

1. Prove it
2. Prove it
3. Prove it

Just going to repeat that. I want to see how and what kinds of drugs are ruining neighborhoods, I want to see the % of homes growing in Canada, I want to see how many immigrants become criminals ( I think this is what your saying?)

Now you're just adding more "facts" which I am still waiting for the first 3 to be proven. I mean if you have such substantial knowledge of these "facts" then please share with us. If you do I will definitely change my mind. Simple request, as for your new "facts" I know the last one is wrong. I mean latin americans are going through Mexico into Texas, where they have capital punishment and strict drug laws as well? Does not seem much of a deterant?

And for the sake of the argument say Canada gets the same deterent that the US has, what then they all go back to the US again? then the US increase their punishments again and then they go back to Canada? This, assuming your can show me that immigrants are coming to Canada rather than the US because we are "soft".
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Old 12-06-2011, 09:06 PM   #30
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The cartels in Mexico have no choice based on geography.

As for junior, why not dyodd and prove me wrong, ahhhh the old twist.
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