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Old 11-10-2011, 04:40 PM   #46
BMWdouche
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbworld4k View Post
OEM non-M E9x wheels, even the BMW performance ones, only go up to 9" wide.

And lol @ the "255s are ridiculous on E90s" posts. Bahahahahaha!
FYI, my I have a family member running an E93 335i on an OEM 18" winter wheel setup sold for the E46 M3. 225s up front, 255s out back. Three winters. Daily driven. No issues. Try again.
Seriously? You're going to go with a "someone i know did it for x amount of time which thus effectively proves it safe" argument?

Anyone will tell you staggered is bad in the winter. Just because someone you know hasn't had a bad experience with them doesn't prove anything.

Some other examples of flawed arguments based of your premise:
1. Smoking cigarettes isn't dangerous cus my family member smokes and he doesnt have cancer and is still alive
2. Driving drunk isn't bad because my family member drove drunk for 3 years and he's still alive


Just because it hasn't happen yet doesn't mean that driving stagg'd in the winter with 255's in the rear is safe. At the very least, it greatly increases the risk of floating in the snow and providing you with much less control.
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:10 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWdouche View Post
Seriously? You're going to go with a "someone i know did it for x amount of time which thus effectively proves it safe" argument?

Anyone will tell you staggered is bad in the winter. Just because someone you know hasn't had a bad experience with them doesn't prove anything.

Some other examples of flawed arguments based of your premise:
1. Smoking cigarettes isn't dangerous cus my family member smokes and he doesnt have cancer and is still alive
2. Driving drunk isn't bad because my family member drove drunk for 3 years and he's still alive


Just because it hasn't happen yet doesn't mean that driving stagg'd in the winter with 255's in the rear is safe. At the very least, it greatly increases the risk of floating in the snow and providing you with much less control.
^ Exactly. I've driven other people's BMW's with those wide snows.
Horrible. They don't know what they are missing by not running narrow snows.

There is a reason TireRack.com usually shows "minus" sizing for winters. 205/225 are ideal.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:05 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
Why are you measuring wheels that have the specs printed right on them?

I don't think there's a post MrRWD makes that doesn't make my head hurt.
I don't think there is a need for a comment like this with all due respect. It does make sense to measure it if you don't know how wide it is, especially if its OEM. Unless you have a lift or take the wheel off, or know off hand what your rim widths are.. the only way to find out is to measure it.

And if you're arguing against him.. you are arguing that using 255's or having a staggered setup in the winter is safe. Unless you think so and are ready to prove it.... there is really no need for your comment that detracts from this thread.
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Old 11-11-2011, 11:21 AM   #49
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Nah, I still don't think it makes sense. You're measuring something which has it's dimensions listed both on the item itself as well as in easy to find places online. There's just no sense in that, but maybe I'm the crazy one.

And when did I say anything about tire sizes? I'm just pointing out that measuring a stock wheel is nonsense.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:16 PM   #50
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I will also agree with Jay, Measuring a wheel while it is on the car is non-sense and no way you can get the right measurement.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRWD View Post
BS really... I might be off by .5 of an inch. I actually measured it the best one can without un-mounting the tires. (And I know how rim widths are measured).
You clearly do not know how rim widths are measured, it is the inside width between the two flanges. Sorry, but you are a complete idiot if you tried to measure it while it is still on the car with the tire still mounted. Which is why you are off by atleast .5'', unless you know the thickness of the flange all you are doing is wasting time as Jay said, just find out what wheel it is and search online. You don't even have to get your hands dirty.

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Old 11-11-2011, 12:28 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by BMWdouche View Post
Just because it hasn't happen yet doesn't mean that driving stagg'd in the winter with 255's in the rear is safe.
What you are saying is kinda stupid, a 255 wide winter tire is still much safer than an all-season. Just because it is 255 wide, doesn't mean it is magically unsafe and useless. yes, it does not offer as much DEEP SNOW traction as a narrower tire. But think for a second, what percentage of the time are you driving in deep snow? <5%?

Okay, what type of weather do most people drive in for 80% or more during the winter? (GTA Only) Dry & Cold...

Putting a 205 wide tire on a 300+hp, 300+tq, greatly cripples the car in Dry & Cold weather, which is what again? 80+% of most people's driving? So using your stupid logic, we should all buy tires based on only <5% of winter driving?

Now thinking logically you would come to the conclusion that it is actually greater risk and more dangerous (overall, think big picture) to put 205s on a car with that much power. (You can't assume people know how to drive). You'll have idiots on the road who can't drive, fishtailing, hitting curbs and losing control in dry cold winter days. As a car/tire manufacture, which option to do think will get them sued less? ie, less Risk, less liability...

Now if we are taking specifically about an e90 323i, then yes, no need for 255s. Clearly, the buyer prefered to payless, than buy a tire that was right for the vehicle.
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Old 11-11-2011, 12:56 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30 View Post
What you are saying is kinda stupid, a 255 wide winter tire is still much safer than an all-season. Just because it is 255 wide, doesn't mean it is magically unsafe and useless. yes, it does not offer as much DEEP SNOW traction as a narrower tire. But think for a second, what percentage of the time are you driving in deep snow? <5%?

Okay, what type of weather do most people drive in for 80% or more during the winter? (GTA Only) Dry & Cold...

Putting a 205 wide tire on a 300+hp, 300+tq, greatly cripples the car in Dry & Cold weather, which is what again? 80+% of most people's driving? So using your stupid logic, we should all buy tires based on only <5% of winter driving?
fair enough but likely a majority of accidents in the winter happen during the <5% time you drive in snow not the ~95% that you claim to be cold and dry.

based on your logic same argument goes for buying winter tires in the first place. because 5% of driving on the snow during winter in Toronto works out to ~1.25% of driving in snow during the entire year if you assume winter is 1/4 of the season. just drive on summer tires or all seasons. who cares that you have less grip when the temp is below 7 degrees. 8 months of the year Toronto has averages higher than 7 degrees, therefore optimal for all season tires. We should just rely on our expert driving skills for the times its colder and snowing because of course everyone on the forum is a guru when it comes to driving.
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Old 11-11-2011, 01:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30 View Post
What you are saying is kinda stupid, a 255 wide winter tire is still much safer than an all-season. Just because it is 255 wide, doesn't mean it is magically unsafe and useless. yes, it does not offer as much DEEP SNOW traction as a narrower tire. But think for a second, what percentage of the time are you driving in deep snow? <5%?

Okay, what type of weather do most people drive in for 80% or more during the winter? (GTA Only) Dry & Cold...

Putting a 205 wide tire on a 300+hp, 300+tq, greatly cripples the car in Dry & Cold weather, which is what again? 80+% of most people's driving? So using your stupid logic, we should all buy tires based on only <5% of winter driving?

Now thinking logically you would come to the conclusion that it is actually greater risk and more dangerous (overall, think big picture) to put 205s on a car with that much power. (You can't assume people know how to drive). You'll have idiots on the road who can't drive, fishtailing, hitting curbs and losing control in dry cold winter days. As a car/tire manufacture, which option to do think will get them sued less? ie, less Risk, less liability...

Now if we are taking specifically about an e90 323i, then yes, no need for 255s. Clearly, the buyer prefered to payless, than buy a tire that was right for the vehicle.
I don't think you got my argument.. I never said it was OK to use All-Seasons in the winter.. I agree 100% that a wide winter tyre is still safer than all-seasons. My argument was against the guy that said that winter tires are useless because he knew someone that didnt have them and they never crashed their car. Let's summarize my points:

1) Staggered in the Winter is less than ideal
2) Winter Tires are best in Winter
3) Don't make arguments based off a premise that is logically flawed (you know a person that did it and was fine etc.)
4) If you didn't want to either remove the wheel or know beforehand how wide it is and you are lazy.. you can ballpark the rim width by measuring for it and accounting/estimating for the flanges
5) And yes.. 225 winter tires will "magically" outperform 255 winter tyres in the winter.


**Edit: And who gives a shit about how much power/torque a car has in the winter.. you bringing up the fact that a car might have 300hp in the winter is irrelevant.. because a car is as fast as you drive it. If you have skinny 205 tires in the winter on a 600hp car and drive it at the speed limit, carefully, normally you will be fine in the winter. However, if you're the type of person who drives a powerful car on the road like he would on the racetrack then yes.. get your fat staggered winter tires and stay out of my way please

Last edited by BMWdouche; 11-11-2011 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:26 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawcio View Post
based on your logic same argument goes for buying winter tires in the first place. because 5% of driving on the snow during winter in Toronto works out to ~1.25% of driving in snow during the entire year if you assume winter is 1/4 of the season. just drive on summer tires or all seasons.
Winters tires offer better traction in lower temperatures. Traction in snow is only part of their usefulness, therefore you logic is flawed.

Winter is probably closer to 4-5 months here in Canada.
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:32 PM   #55
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I agree except for this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWdouche View Post
5) And yes.. 225 winter tires will "magically" outperform 255 winter tyres in the winter.
You said (or was it MrRWD), 255s are unsafe. I am saying while 225s might be slightly better. That doesn't magically make the 255s unsafe in winter. Stop putting words in people's mouth and changing them around to your liking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWdouche View Post
**Edit: And who gives a shit about how much power/torque a car has in the winter.. you bringing up the fact that a car might have 300hp in the winter is irrelevant.. because a car is as fast as you drive it. If you have skinny 205 tires in the winter on a 600hp car and drive it at the speed limit, carefully, normally you will be fine in the winter. However, if you're the type of person who drives a powerful car on the road like he would on the racetrack then yes.. get your fat staggered winter tires and stay out of my way please
If you didn't give a shit, then why stop at 205s, why don't you drive on bicycle tires? As I said, just because you know to drive sensibly based on the tires you have, doesn't mean the general population will, or has the skill to control oversteer in a rwd car. If a car manufacture released a high-horse power car with super narrow tires (by todays standards) they would open themselves up to lawsuits. Think Ford/Firestone, explorer flipping over type of scenarios.
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Mystikal View Post
Nah, I still don't think it makes sense. You're measuring something which has it's dimensions listed both on the item itself as well as in easy to find places online. There's just no sense in that, but maybe I'm the crazy one.

And when did I say anything about tire sizes? I'm just pointing out that measuring a stock wheel is nonsense.
Because it's on the back of wheel, which is mounted on the car.
Use some common sense here. It's also not just a basic wheel from BMW.....

I took the 30 seconds to google the wheel type, but most of the sites have the older wheels that you and T.Dot_E30 have, on your older cars.

It's was easier to "estimate", the inside flange width....
(T.Dot_E30 .... I definitely know how to. I changed my rear axle on my project car, and I calculated the
wheel width and offset I needed for the changes, with great success.
Anyone can "Post" a picture of how to measure it..... please.).

I'm not about to pull my wheel in a suit to get the size.... please. I've got better things to do.

Too bad you can't think outside of the box......
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Old 11-11-2011, 02:44 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by MrRWD View Post
I took the 30 seconds to google the wheel type, but most of the sites have the older wheels that you and T.Dot_E30 have, on your older cars.
Yikes!... put your flame suit on bud!!!!
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:03 PM   #58
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Calling people idiots and such.... that's not cool. Not worried.

As I've already mentioned, a few people have called the StanceFactory guys, and were completely turned off by them.

I'm not surprised really.....

Anyway.... I drive a lot, in many parts of the world, rent a lot of cars, drive in deep snow, and have been running snows for 15+ years, and own/have owed many cool cars.

I've also built a project car, doing all the work myself. Engine swap (not original-but custom swap), auto-manual conversion....... but what do I know??????

.......... but... put whatever tire you want on whatever rim you want....
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:10 PM   #59
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I've also built a project car, doing all the work myself. Engine swap (not original-but custom swap), auto-manual conversion....... but what do I know??????
I don't care what you've done or what you can do, what does that have to do with measuring a wheel? You have no idea what i've done who i've worked for or what type of training i have, nor do i feel the need to bring it up or does it even matter.

When you're wrong, you're wrong. You made an stupid statement I called you out on it...

No need to get pussy hurt, you're not the only one that wears a suit.
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Old 11-11-2011, 03:18 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by MrRWD View Post
Too bad you can't think outside of the box......
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...id=49545&hg=36

Width and offset of every E9x wheel in less than the time it took to grab your measuring tape. You don't have to think outside the box, but rather just think.
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