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View Poll Results: 318is or 325is? e30
318is 15 28.85%
325is 37 71.15%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-17-2011, 12:35 PM   #61
hockeyfan27
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Originally Posted by Bullet Ride View Post
Those rates are utterly perverse. To drive a 17 year old truck that has a 2L motor, you're going to pay like 2x the value (of a B2000 that a 18yr old would buy) per year? I penciled in specs for a fresh G2 driver with drivers training in Kanetix for a 1996 B2300 and Belairdirect would hook this fellow up for $2255/yr.

E30 rates are even worse $7k/yr? That's like 3x the value of the average E30 for sale in a 18yr old kids price range. I know you don't make the rules so it's not your fault, honestly though, that's robbery because what kind of 18yr old can afford to pay $7k/yr for insurance? I know comparing the rate to the value of the vehicle doesn't really make a lot of sense because the vehicle is only a small part of how the calculation works. When you step back and look at it though you think... why would anyone even bother to get their own insurance when they are that young, just get it insured under a parent or relative and save yourself several thousand dollars per year.
Out of curiosity, for that Belair quote, what postal code did you enter? (this is making more and more of a difference these days)

Now, If I had a nickel for every time I heard, "I got a quote online and the rate changed when I went to sign the paperwork" I could buy both of us a new M3.

I do realize that for a brand new driver, often the bank insurers/direct writers offer a better rate. I frequently point the, "I got my G2 today" quotes to the banks. It's not the target business for many companies and the rate reflects that appetite.

However, there are ways to get much better rates for newer drivers that are not based on lying about who is actually the principle driver of your car. The abuse of that loop-hole has caused an equally insane increase of occasional driver rates and many companies are now charging for occasional female drivers, where they did not previously.
If you are buying your first car and were previously listed on your parent's policy as an occasional driver. Your parent's insurance company will often do a separate policy but extend some of your parents discounts to your car, such as multi-vehicle or multi-policy.

Fact is, it sucks to be 18.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:40 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan27 View Post
For fun I ran a quote on an 18yr old male, living in Pickering, Fresh G2, No drivers training. Comparing 2dr IS models.

E30
318 = 6048/yr
325 = 6144/yr
E36 carries identical rate groups, so same difference.

Now, God forbid you live in Brampton:
E30
318 = 9487/yr
325 = 9607/yr


Same scenario and areas, but add drivers training:

E30
318 = 4553/yr
325 = 4634/yr

Brampton:
E30
318 = 7094/yr
325 = 7197/yr

For your first vehicle, first insurance, you want a car that carries an AB rating of 01; typically larger Subaru wagons & pickup trucks...

in Pickering with drivers training:
1998 Sub Outback wagon - 3987/yr
1994 Mazda B2000 cab plus -3854/yr

Just drive in the right areas and that pick-up IS a chick magnet
This is a perfect example of how insurance companies in Ontario are F*CKING thief's!
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:53 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan27 View Post
Out of curiosity, for that Belair quote, what postal code did you enter? (this is making more and more of a difference these days)
True, I did put in my Guelph postal code.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:20 PM   #64
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Guelph 18yr old with training
E30
318 = 3852/yr
325 = 3920/yr

b2300 = 3352/yr

17 and 18 yr olds get the same rate (this is slowly changing)

Guelph 19yr old with training

325 = 3102/yr
B2300 = 2588/yr

Insurance is one of the few industries that has to justify the price of their product to the government.

Home Depot can change the price of a sheet of drywall as they see fit. I won't even start with Oil companies and the price of Gas. Call insurance robbery, but the fact is the losses generated by this age group justify the premium they are charged.

I had my 1st at fault at 18 yrs old.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:29 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by hockeyfan27 View Post
Guelph 18yr old with training
E30
318 = 3852/yr
325 = 3920/yr

b2300 = 3352/yr

17 and 18 yr olds get the same rate (this is slowly changing)

Guelph 19yr old with training

325 = 3102/yr
B2300 = 2588/yr

Insurance is one of the few industries that has to justify the price of their product to the government.

Home Depot can change the price of a sheet of drywall as they see fit. I won't even start with Oil companies and the price of Gas. Call insurance robbery, but the fact is the losses generated by this age group justify the premium they are charged.

I had my 1st at fault at 18 yrs old.
What does that matter? You're telling me in other more regulated parts of the country that teens don't wreck as much? Bull$hit. Ontario is by far the worst when it comes to insurance.

Have a look at Montreal, Alberta and BC... Insurance premiums are FAR lower... no only that they actually get discounts as the years go on (just like in Europe)... not increases like here. We in Ontario pay ridiculous amounts of money.

My premium went up over $50/mo for no reason what so ever... When I asked why they said "Well the Government approved a rate increase across the board, so that's what we're doing".

Even though I haven't cost them one single penny. No new tickets, no accidents at all on my record ever. Nothing.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:55 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by everlast View Post
I'm amused when people gripe about insurance being "more than the value of the car". It's liability, it has nothing to do with the value of the car.

When a young punk who can't drive but thinks he's Ken Block cripples someone, the insurance company has to pay out for the rest of the victim's life. Or worse, he kills them and they settle for a half million or more, lump sum payment.

It only take a few claims like that and you see why the high risk drivers pay high rates.
I appreciate that it can be hard to wrap you mind around why the insurance cost for a $1000 car is almost the same as a $10 000 car. Few people, unlike yourself, take liability into consideration. It is hard to see the value in it especially when the likelihood of utilizing you liability insurance is so much less then your physical damage coverages. Having the premium weighted more heavily towards liability exposure can work to your benefit. The difference in premium, for me, between my car a 98 328I vert and a 2011 LP560 spyder is less then 1000/yr in insurance.

Sad truth: In general, the cost of the claim is less if a person dies vs. a serious injury like a loss of limb or paralysis.
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:48 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by NOTORIOUS VR View Post
What does that matter? You're telling me in other more regulated parts of the country that teens don't wreck as much? Bull$hit. Ontario is by far the worst when it comes to insurance.

Have a look at Montreal, Alberta and BC... Insurance premiums are FAR lower... no only that they actually get discounts as the years go on (just like in Europe)... not increases like here. We in Ontario pay ridiculous amounts of money.

My premium went up over $50/mo for no reason what so ever... When I asked why they said "Well the Government approved a rate increase across the board, so that's what we're doing".

Even though I haven't cost them one single penny. No new tickets, no accidents at all on my record ever. Nothing.
Why it matters? The insurance companies have to justify their increase and prove the losses are costing more. Robbery is raising gas prices before the long weekend as more people are going to buy larger amounts.

Ontario is the most heavily populated province, more cars on the road, more accidents. It's not BS, it's statistics.

My friend went to BC for 12 mo to work for the Olympics. He drove his car there and had to switch to the ICBC (insurance company of BC). It cost him $200/yr more then his Ontario insurance. Clean record, 30yrs old. licenced for 10+ yrs. However for the younger driver, they may very well be less expensive. For the most part BC's rates are fairly comparable based on the 2 or 3 people a month I speak with, who are moving from BC to ON.

The principle of insurance is not your premium paid over time covers your claims. It is the premiums of the many pay for the losses of the few. If the losses are greater, then 'the many' pay more, no fault of their own. A Government run insurance system is not going to be any different.

The explanation you got about why your rates when up was weak. Companies don't increase rate because the government approved an increase. That's bass akwards. The company requests the increase based on the cost of claims, the request is then approved or denied.

You are paying more because people continue to say to a body shop, "paint the whole car" or "I want another 2 months off work". The general opinion is: insurance companies have deep pockets and I pay lots of premium so when I have a claim, I'm making the best of it. The cost of a claim is increasing and the companies have no confidence that the new regulated changes will make a significant difference, so most applied for rate increases in Q1 of this year as they were not allowed to in Q4 of 2010. It will likely be a full year or 2 until we see if the recent legislated changes to the insurance act have the anticipated effect they were designed to.

My apologies to the OP, I didn't intend for this to go so far away from 318 Vs 325
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:52 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfan27 View Post
Why it matters? The insurance companies have to justify their increase and prove the losses are costing more. Robbery is raising gas prices before the long weekend as more people are going to buy larger amounts.

Ontario is the most heavily populated province, more cars on the road, more accidents. It's not BS, it's statistics.

My friend went to BC for 12 mo to work for the Olympics. He drove his car there and had to switch to the ICBC (insurance company of BC). It cost him $200/yr more then his Ontario insurance. Clean record, 30yrs old. licenced for 10+ yrs. However for the younger driver, they may very well be less expensive. For the most part BC's rates are fairly comparable based on the 2 or 3 people a month I speak with, who are moving from BC to ON.

The principle of insurance is not your premium paid over time covers your claims. It is the premiums of the many pay for the losses of the few. If the losses are greater, then 'the many' pay more, no fault of their own. A Government run insurance system is not going to be any different.

The explanation you got about why your rates when up was weak. Companies don't increase rate because the government approved an increase. That's bass akwards. The company requests the increase based on the cost of claims, the request is then approved or denied.

You are paying more because people continue to say to a body shop, "paint the whole car" or "I want another 2 months off work". The general opinion is: insurance companies have deep pockets and I pay lots of premium so when I have a claim, I'm making the best of it. The cost of a claim is increasing and the companies have no confidence that the new regulated changes will make a significant difference, so most applied for rate increases in Q1 of this year as they were not allowed to in Q4 of 2010. It will likely be a full year or 2 until we see if the recent legislated changes to the insurance act have the anticipated effect they were designed to.

My apologies to the OP, I didn't intend for this to go so far away from 318 Vs 325
The good news is I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Gieco.
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:58 PM   #69
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hey i just got my g2 and hoping to get my frist car, and im wondering what is good car to drive for a cruise? i do like to go fast and also which is more a chick magnet

thanks!


i can do some minor repairs and maintaince like oil change, etc.
never see your car as a chick magnet, you'll spend more on the car than the girl, inversely, never spend more on the girl than the car. YOU are the chick magnet. can sence when you f%$k good... eye contact and posturing my friend... a 325's just a plus. not mine though... its a pos.
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Old 02-18-2011, 09:59 PM   #70
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Anyone who calls the e30 318is ''boring to drive'' or a ''waste of time'' clearly isn't a true BMW enthusiast. A real enthusiasts would know that this car is often regarded as ''the spiritual successor to the 2002tii'' or ''the baby e30 m3''.

Calling the 318is ''slow'' compared to the 325is is like calling the e30 M3 slow compared to the e36 M3... E30's aren't about speed and they never have been. E30 M3's aren't selling for 25 grand because they are fast; they sell for this price because they offer ''an experience''. Many would argue that among all BMW's, the driving experience offered by the 91' 318is is the closest thing you can get to that of an e30 m3.

So to all of the 6 cylinder guys who like to trash the e30 318is, I challenge you to take one for a spin.
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Old 02-18-2011, 10:28 PM   #71
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Anyone who calls the e30 318is ''boring to drive'' or a ''waste of time'' clearly isn't a true BMW enthusiast. A real enthusiasts would know that this car is often regarded as ''the spiritual successor to the 2002tii'' or ''the baby e30 m3''.

Calling the 318is ''slow'' compared to the 325is is like calling the e30 M3 slow compared to the e36 M3... E30's aren't about speed and they never have been. E30 M3's aren't selling for 25 grand because they are fast; they sell for this price because they offer ''an experience''. Many would argue that among all BMW's, the driving experience offered by the 91' 318is is the closest thing you can get to that of an e30 m3.

So to all of the 6 cylinder guys who like to trash the e30 318is, I challenge you to take one for a spin.
WOW, this coming from someone who is getting but hurt for owning said car (M42) I've driven more M42's than you could shake a stick at, but how about you take an M20 for a spin and we'll talk! Oh and by the way, most of us didn't say the M42 isn't a good reliable engine, it's just underpowered and the M20 is every bit as reliable. I'll bring something else up, one of the biggest supporters of M42's took my M20 car for a spin recently and it was one of his first times driving an M20 after numerous M42 cars and his almost immediate comment was, i could get used to this! LOL. need I say more?
Oh and an e30 M3 is barely quicker than an e30 325, so I don't know where you're going with this. As a daily the 325 is quicker and easier to drive as it's not so peaky in terms of it's power curve. Straight sixes for the win baby!
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Old 02-18-2011, 11:35 PM   #72
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WOW, this coming from someone who is getting but hurt for owning said car (M42) I've driven more M42's than you could shake a stick at, but how about you take an M20 for a spin and we'll talk! Oh and by the way, most of us didn't say the M42 isn't a good reliable engine, it's just underpowered and the M20 is every bit as reliable. I'll bring something else up, one of the biggest supporters of M42's took my M20 car for a spin recently and it was one of his first times driving an M20 after numerous M42 cars and his almost immediate comment was, i could get used to this! LOL. need I say more?
Oh and an e30 M3 is barely quicker than an e30 325, so I don't know where you're going with this. As a daily the 325 is quicker and easier to drive as it's not so peaky in terms of it's power curve. Straight sixes for the win baby!

Dble Trouble, love the M42 vs M20 battle and love your passion for the baby six! I absolutely agree that the M20 is a sweet mill; good power and phenomenal exhaust note. It is easy to see why e30 325i's have become cult cars. However... I think that while underpowered, the 318is has a different set of qualities that make it an equally appealing driver's car (light weight, high revving, well balanced, desirable trim etc.)
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:14 AM   #73
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I'll add that the m42 has no balls below 4.5k rpm, which is frustrating when you want to overtake some one without attracting a ton of attention. That being said, when my car was a 318is it was still a lot of fun to drive. It definitely wasn't fast, I couldn't even call it quick, but it rarely felt inadequate if i'm honest.

If you get an e30, get one in the best shape you can find. Driving the car is more fun that replacing things that are broken because of a PO's negligence/hackjobs.
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