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Old 05-07-2010, 09:03 AM   #46
overlordjd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamE30e View Post
If 100 uninvited people we're coming into a party at your house and there was potential that 1 of them were going to steal something, wouldn't you expect them to answer some questions?

Now coming back if you're a Canadian citizen and being hassled by Canadian customs is kinda balls.
to think you could tell someone who was going to steal from you by asking a few questions is just pure ignorance.

It doesnt matter if you answer the clowns questions politely or not. It is up to the individual clown to determine if your answers or actions are suspicious enough to warrant futher search and questioning.

Real terrorist know this and will practice to answer questions politely and as specific as possible to achieve their end goal.

For a border agent or cop to say that someone seemed supicious is just bullshit. Most people although innocent get nervous around these asses.

These asses don't have a clue what they are doing and are just playing the law of average. Every now and then, they pick some poor soul and decide to make their lives a living hell.

The ass in the video stated they catch 3 terrorist in a day. How many real credible terrorist does your law of average allow to pass through in a day?

Once they've ran your documents and everything is in order, everything else they do is bullshit.

Last edited by overlordjd; 05-07-2010 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:59 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlordjd View Post
to think you could tell someone who was going to steal from you by asking a few questions is just pure ignorance.

It doesnt matter if you answer the clowns questions politely or not. It is up to the individual clown to determine if your answers or actions are suspicious enough to warrant futher search and questioning.

Real terrorist know this and will practice to answer questions politely and as specific as possible to achieve their end goal.

For a border agent or cop to say that someone seemed supicious is just bullshit. Most people although innocent get nervous around these asses.

These asses don't have a clue what they are doing and are just playing the law of average. Every now and then, they pick some poor soul and decide to make their lives a living hell.

The ass in the video stated they catch 3 terrorist in a day. How many real credible terrorist does your law of average allow to pass through in a day?

Once they've ran your documents and everything is in order, everything else they do is bullshit.
Your post just goes to show how little you know. The border guards aren't there to make you feel comfortable and be nice to you. You seriously think "running documents" is all they need to do? Do you think drug runners, human traffickers, and terrorists, have a stamp on their passports that say "criminal"?

Just like a criminal psychologist, they are able to ask questions in specific ways, and based on answers determine potentially dangerous behavior or someone who is trying to hide something. Everyone has a "tell".

The whole reason they are dicks at the border, and why they ask ridiculous questions is because it gets people agitated and heightens their natural involuntary defensive mechanisms. Certain mannerisms and ways in which people answer can give a very specific insight into their overall intentions. And unless someone is a psychopath, these "tells" are something a human body doesn't control, and will naturally appear when confronted with an unusual line of questioning and aggressive behavior from the guard. Lie detectors work under the same principal. All they do is monitor some of those exact same body functions to determine if someone is lying or not. They are things most people can't control.

If you just answer the questions, and suck it up for a few minutes of dealing with a guy doing his job, then you'll be fine, and let through. Otherwise, if you don't like it, then you don't have to go to their country. There's plenty of shopping in Canada.
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Old 05-07-2010, 09:59 AM   #48
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Like anything else in life you should be on your best behaviour when confronted with a person who can jail your ass.It seems anyone in a uniform these days are on a powertrip but the accused really should have shut his mouth.Lets see if he can cross the border now........
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:08 AM   #49
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OK chromius
based on your experience as a borderguard and your indepth knowlege of their training and also the fact that you know so much about criminal psycology, does this guy fit the profile of a terrorist based on the answers he gave?
You state that everyone has a tell. Does everyone have the same tell? Are these guys trained to catch everones tell? did September 11th really happen?

for the record, no one is saying this guy did nothing to provoke the situation but the end result was over the top based on what transpired in the audio we listened to.

By the way, is the lip on your car fibre glass or polyurethane?

Last edited by overlordjd; 05-07-2010 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:24 AM   #50
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OK chromius
based on your experience as a borderguard and your indepth knowlege of their training and also the fact that you know so much about criminal psycology, does this guy fit the profile of a terrorist based on the answers he gave?
Never said I was an expert, so I couldn't tell you what profile this guy falls into, plus there's no video footage either. The simple fact is that the guy crossing the border was a complete douchbag, wouldn't give straight answers, and was giving smart ass comments. So the first line guy (guy in the booth) sent him in to get further screening by someone who has the time to deal with a douchbag without holding up traffic. The guy inside was trying to be polite, and was trying to explain the situation and just ask a couple of questions. The guy was still a complete ass (even to his wife), and ended up taking it too far when he started talking about guns and shooting people.
Quote:
You state that everyone has a tell. Does everyone have the same tell? Are these guys trained to catch everones tell? did September 11th really happen?
This is quite a stupid question, but I'll answer it anyway. Of course not everyone has the same tell, but everyone does have the same bodily functions, like blood flow, pupil dilation, eye movements, hand gestures, etc etc etc. And quite obviously, they can't catch everyone, what a stupid assumption. But just because they can't catch everyone, does that mean they shouldn't try?

What does this have to do with Sept 11th?
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:30 AM   #51
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By the way, is the lip on your car fibre glass or polyurethane?
Polyurethane
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Old 05-07-2010, 10:38 AM   #52
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this is a self-assesment for people looking to become border gaurds in Canada.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/job-emplo...sa-ae-eng.html

8. Are you prepared to carry a firearm and use it? Are you prepared to apply as much physical force as necessary when dealing with a non-compliant individual?

^^ looks like if you **** around you're liable to get shot.
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:01 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by aspen540 View Post
this is a self-assesment for people looking to become border gaurds in Canada.

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/job-emplo...sa-ae-eng.html

8. Are you prepared to carry a firearm and use it? Are you prepared to apply as much physical force as necessary when dealing with a non-compliant individual?

^^ looks like if you **** around you're liable to get shot.

Does it say anything about being an absolutely useless, ignorant, power tripping, shallow, overzealous tool. Because it should be, almost everybody agrees they all are.

There are plenty of other ways to spot a bad apple. And being a dick to the tourists is not one of them.
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:28 AM   #54
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Is it illegal to record them?
im sure its a grey area, but what they don't know, wont hurt them
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Old 05-07-2010, 11:35 AM   #55
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i think they reason they are stern with everyone and not happy go lucky is that people who have something to hide are probably more likely to react in a different way than people who have nothing to hide when they are placed in a stressful scenario rather than dealing with someone who addresses you like your friend. that is the reason why they ask a lot of random questions to see if they can trip you up. if they think you're responses and body language is not normal they may warrant more searching or questioning.

i've had some interesting experiences at the border. going to florida my friends and i didn't have anywhere booked to stay the first night because we were driving in one go and we didn't know when we would get tired and potentially need to stop. our entire car got unpacked and searched while we sat in a small room with a camera mounted in one corner focused on us. we got questioned let go and all was good. there were other times that my car or my friends cars got searched but since i have nothing to hide i don't mind this terribly. it makes for a good story later.

anyway, i think canada and the us should have a schengen-like agreement. it would make more sense, but then canada wouldn't make money off of duty.
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Old 05-07-2010, 12:55 PM   #56
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My point with the stupid questions is to illustrate the fact that there are no sure ways of detecting a potential terror threat based on the answers given by a slightly irretated person. You have no idea of the events leading up to the border crossing which would impact ones behavior or tollerance to stupid random questions.

In your post you gave the impression that these guys were trained to a degree where they could read peoples body language and be able to tell who is a potential terrorist or smuggler. I think you insulted Criminal psycologist everwhere when you mentioned them in a coversation about the level of training these border guards are subjected to.

Take a look at the story about the underwear bomb that did not go off. Sufficient warning was given to warrant that traveller not to be allowed to go the the STates. Unlike this situation where someone is going to an outlet mall and does not know exactly what stores he will be going to.

Sure the guy was a dick and could have conducted himself better, but did it really have to get to the point of all the bullshit that took place.

The law is clear in alot of cases but does not stop overzelous assholes from abusing their authority and venturing on the otherside of it by making up bullshit reasons to detain someone or by manipulating that grey area for their own purposes.

This is all up to the individual asshole at the booth and how well his day has been so far.
it is all so up to the individual assshole crossing the border and dealing with said asshole at the booth. When you come across 2 such assholes at the same time things will escalate to where they did in this case.

The trained assholes should also exercise some level of professionalism and be able to tell if this guy was a credible threat or just some average ass letting off some steam.

the questions he asked, while could be deemed as pushing his luck was not in a disrespectfull manner but that of someone who has rights.

This can all be summed up in the words Power Trip.

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I think it actually looks better having the lip over the M-bumper but thats another topic of discussion.

Last edited by overlordjd; 05-07-2010 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:04 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overlordjd View Post
My point with the stupid questions is to illustrate the fact that there are no sure ways of detecting a potential terror threat based on the answers given by a slightly irretated person. You have no idea of the events leading up to the border crossing which would impact ones behavior or tollerance to stupid random questions.

In your post you gave the impression that these guys were trained to a degree where they could read peoples body language and be able to tell who is a potential terrorist or smuggler. I think you insulted Criminal psycologist everwhere when you mentioned them in a coversation about the level of training these border guards are subjected to.

Take a look at the story about the underwear bomb that did not go off. Sufficient warning was given to warrant that traveller not to be allowed to go the the STates. Unlike this situation where someone is going to an outlet mall and does not know exactly what stores he will be going to.

Sure the guy was a dick and could have conducted himself better, but did it really have to get to the point of all the bullshit that took place.

The law is clear in alot of cases but does not stop overzelous assholes from abusing their authority and venturing on the otherside of it by making up bullshit reasons to detain someone or by manipulating that grey area for their own purposes.

This is all up to the individual asshole at the booth and how well his day has been so far.
it is all so up to the individual assshole crossing the border and dealing with said asshole at the booth. When you come across 2 such assholes at the same time things will escalate to where they did in this case.

The trained assholes should also exercise some level of professionalism and be able to tell if this guy was a credible threat or just some average ass letting off some steam.

the questions he asked, while could be deemed as pushing his luck was not in a disrespectfull manner but that of someone who has rights.

This can all be summed up in the words Power Trip.

*********************************
Where did you order the Lip for your car?
I think it actually looks better having the lip over the M-bumper but thats another topic of discussion.
Honestly, quit acting like a know it all. These people CAN tell by the responses. They are trained. Millions have been spent, psychologists, PH.D's and others have developped complex metrics to gauge human behaviour. What you think doesn't really matter one bit.

And no, terrorists can be trained, but they cant beat every system all of our research on human behavior has come up with (not all of them at least).

Honestly, you don't know what you're talking about. Neither do I. But I have faith in properly trained scientists, psychologists and other experts that have determined these systems.
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:25 PM   #58
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Honestly, you don't know what you're talking about. Neither do I. But I have faith in properly trained scientists, psychologists and other experts that have determined these systems.
this thread is not about psychologists and other experts. we are discussing border guards and an unfortunate douch who pushed his luck at the wrong time and ended up paying for it. You guys keep going off topic and bringing other experts into this. Border Guards.

by your own admission that you do not know what you are talking about, but you seem to know that I don't know what I'm talking about.

This thread has been beaten to death and there will never be a winner or loser in this with the exception of the guy and his wife.

I'll leave the ones who really know everything to discuss this and hopefully I will learn something.
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Old 05-07-2010, 05:30 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by overlordjd View Post
to think you could tell someone who was going to steal from you by asking a few questions is just pure ignorance.

It doesnt matter if you answer the clowns questions politely or not. It is up to the individual clown to determine if your answers or actions are suspicious enough to warrant futher search and questioning.

Real terrorist know this and will practice to answer questions politely and as specific as possible to achieve their end goal.

For a border agent or cop to say that someone seemed supicious is just bullshit. Most people although innocent get nervous around these asses.

These asses don't have a clue what they are doing and are just playing the law of average. Every now and then, they pick some poor soul and decide to make their lives a living hell.

The ass in the video stated they catch 3 terrorist in a day. How many real credible terrorist does your law of average allow to pass through in a day?

Once they've ran your documents and everything is in order, everything else they do is bullshit.


So just let everybody in and figure it out after it happens?
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Old 05-07-2010, 07:17 PM   #60
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im sure its a grey area, but what they don't know, wont hurt them
That's what I figured. It wouldn't be admissible in court, but I could always use it for shits and gigs here.
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