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Old 04-30-2010, 10:16 PM   #16
NOTORIOUS VR
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^^^ If you think my friends 400whp turbo M20 E30 doesn't move, doesn't have TQ, or has any sort of problem accelerating out of boost you would be mistaken.

Boost makes everything better.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:30 PM   #17
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Guys that haven't done it will always knock it.

Boost makes everything better.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:31 PM   #18
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^^^ If you think my friends 400whp turbo M20 E30 doesn't move, doesn't have TQ, or has any sort of problem accelerating out of boost you would be mistaken.

Boost makes everything better.
first I didn't say his car wasn't fun or fast

Second didn't say his did not have torque

now with that out of the way once your motors torque line drops sharply any hp after is really kinda pointless. The car stops "pulling" and you change gears to get the torque back and keep the car moving faster.

You cam have all the hp you want, but unless you got the 3T's to work with it's nothing but dyno bragging

and please boost does not make everything better
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:42 PM   #19
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Don't be a wiener. Look at this M30 dyno posted just today on bimmerforums:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...3&postcount=79

Where's the torque drop off?
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:53 PM   #20
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now with that out of the way once your motors torque line drops sharply any hp after is really kinda pointless. The car stops "pulling" and you change gears to get the torque back and keep the car moving faster.
LOL... who told you that a car stops pulling as the TQ drops off?

And you do realize that a boosted motor will make MORE TQ and for longer then the same NA motor ever would right?

You cannot compare a boosted motors output to a NA cars output. The boosted car will almost always win in every category of acceleration.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:58 PM   #21
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Don't be a wiener. Look at this M30 dyno posted just today on bimmerforums:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...3&postcount=79

Where's the torque drop off?

Come on name calling?

That's a decent chart. The m30 is a torque beast!! And your talking about a
motor built by Miller.

Is it boosted? Turbo or SC

Even your running a SC. I'm sure you made that choice for a
reason which is probley better torque gains over the whole rpm range

I'm not knocking boost. It's great just hp is not end all of a cars performance

you need torque, traction, and the right teeth on your gears to take full advantage of any power gained by boost

as for tuning ask Mark D what he tunes for. High end hp or mid range torque?

Let's not get into a NA against boost argument but let's talk about getting the power to the ground !!!!
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:04 PM   #22
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as for tuning ask Mark D what he tunes for. High end hp or mid range torque?
What the heck are you talking about. MarkD will tune just like any other tuner does.. for what the motor needs.

The amount of TQ/HP all depends on your setup of head(s)/cam(s)/turbo/manifold(s)/exhaust, etc.

So yes, I invite you to ask MarkD what he tunes for. Because in the end the motor will dictate the amount of advance and fuel it will require and that will give you your power. Where and how the power is made in the RPM range and for how long is done by properly choosing your components and what you want to achieve.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:05 PM   #23
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LOL... who told you that a car stops pulling as the TQ drops off?

And you do realize that a boosted motor will make MORE TQ and for longer then the same NA motor ever would right?

You cannot compare a boosted motors output to a NA cars output. The boosted car will almost always win in every category of acceleration.
Oh god here we go

your right a boosted motor will have increase over a non boost motor but a 400 hp boosted motor is under more strain due to various factors when comapired to a motor that is producing 400 hp with out boost.

It comes down to personal prefference. I never said there
is anything wrong with boost

get your panties outa your turbo
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:09 PM   #24
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What the heck are you talking about. MarkD will tune just like any other tuner does.. for what the motor needs.

The amount of TQ/HP all depends on your setup of head(s)/cam(s)/turbo/manifold(s)/exhaust, etc.

So yes, I invite you to ask MarkD what he tunes for. Because in the end the motor will dictate the amount of advance and fuel it will require and that will give you your power. Where and how the power is made in the RPM range and for how long is done by properly choosing your components and what you want to achieve.


It's funny case last year at a members meeting Mark was speaking at he said he tunes for mid range torque and not high end rpm hp which is commly used to mislead people into thinking it better cause of a bigger number. Tuning a car for mid range torque is where your gonna use it and bennifit the most.
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Old 04-30-2010, 11:17 PM   #25
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Looks like a 35R'd M30
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:48 AM   #26
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Looks like a 35R'd M30
Love to know what gears they are running in the car and what they are using it for.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:55 AM   #27
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Oh god here we go

your right a boosted motor will have increase over a non boost motor but a 400 hp boosted motor is under more strain due to various factors when comapired to a motor that is producing 400 hp with out boost.
Really? Would you like to quantify that with any facts? Not only that, you making a pretty broad statement as well. If you're talking about a 6L V8 making 400hp vs a 2L 4 cyl then maybe, but that doesn't mean the 4 cyl will not last as long. Fact is with the proper tuning and component choice the boosted motor will "live" just as long as your NA motor.

On the flip side, what about a small displacement NA motor trying to make the power of a small displacement turbo motor, which one do you think is under more strain?

Quote:
It comes down to personal prefference. I never said there
is anything wrong with boost

get your panties outa your turbo
Nor did I say there is anything wrong with going NA, but you right off the bat implied that numbers don't mean anything yet in real life, yet a boosted motor makes MORE usable power then an NA motor which is what you were trying to argue against in your previous posts.

Take a look at OEM's, they're all going to smaller displacement, less cylinders and turbocharging to get the same power while getting more economy (read: efficiency) then what would be possible with an NA motor.

It's pretty simple FI > NA in pretty much any case.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:56 AM   #28
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It's funny case last year at a members meeting Mark was speaking at he said he tunes for mid range torque and not high end rpm hp which is commly used to mislead people into thinking it better cause of a bigger number. Tuning a car for mid range torque is where your gonna use it and bennifit the most.
I personally believe you read into that a little too much and really don't understand tuning as a whole.
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:29 AM   #29
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Love to know what gears they are running in the car and what they are using it for.
Probably says it in the bimmerforums thread; I just can't remember off the top of my head. I'm sure you could call Miller and find out as it seems to be one of their standard MS3 builds.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:01 AM   #30
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Really? Would you like to quantify that with any facts? Not only that, you making a pretty broad statement as well. If you're talking about a 6L V8 making 400hp vs a 2L 4 cyl then maybe, but that doesn't mean the 4 cyl will not last as long. Fact is with the proper tuning and component choice the boosted motor will "live" just as long as your NA motor.

On the flip side, what about a small displacement NA motor trying to make the power of a small displacement turbo motor, which one do you think is under more strain?



Nor did I say there is anything wrong with going NA, but you right off the bat implied that numbers don't mean anything yet in real life, yet a boosted motor makes MORE usable power then an NA motor which is what you were trying to argue against in your previous posts.

Take a look at OEM's, they're all going to smaller displacement, less cylinders and turbocharging to get the same power while getting more economy (read: efficiency) then what would be possible with an NA motor.

It's pretty simple FI > NA in pretty much any case.


Seriously your saying that by adding more presure and heat your not adding strain on internal parts?

I'm not trying to knock boost, and either I,m not getting my point out in a way you understand it, or you just have you mind made up that boost is better cause thats what you like.

done properly yes a boosted car will be reliable, its all up to the internals being upgraded to match the pressure, then deal with the heat caused by putting the ait under presure, intercooler, piping turbo or SC, and what ever other verity of added systems you need to add to keep things cool.

after all is said and done you've added alot of weight to the front of your car, inturn upseting the weight balance (something BMW is good for) and then have to adjust things out by changing spring rates and what not to get your handling back. I could really piss you off and we could start to talk about the advantage of RWD vs FWD or AWD and how it affects a car in anything but a strait line!!!

Please don't add something to things I have said, I never compaired a V8 to a 4 pot, thats twisting someones words.

As for New cars going smaller dispacement and adding boost for power, everyone who has been following things knows this is only to meet goverment regualtions which are getting SO outa hand its crazy. Its costing THOUSANDS more to produce cars to meet standards just laid out for the upcoming years, and the enviroment minister is actually trying to tell people that the $5000 plus its gonna cost them to get a car that meets the standard is going to come back to them in fuel savings over 5 years? but thats another thread!

Now back to what I actully said, yes dyno numbers Do NOTshow what a car will actually do on the street/track or anything but how much power its getting to the wheels. They are a measurement of what the motor is producing and how much power loss the driveline is taking.....THATS IT

True numbers of performance come from skid pad, acceleration test, track times, all of which show how all the cars components are working to actually use what ever power your making.

you,ve got some good dyno numbers and drag slip times in your sig, but I know enough that its only reliative to showing some factors of performance.

Someone just told me the other day about his times at Mosport, he had previously been running a VW with about 8G's of properly done mods under the hood, and when he got his first BMW, a E36 328, he took off 4 seconds of his track time the first time out with a bone stock car.

I,m not trying to tell anyone not to boost a car, but like I said in mu origional post, show me the tourque, and how your using it, and getting it to actully make the car faster!!!
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