Click to go to Forum Home Click to go to maXbimmer Home

Go Back   maXbimmer Forums > Specific Regional Topics > Quebec/Gatineau/Ottawa
User Name
Password


Welcome to Maxbimmer.com!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-12-2009, 04:47 PM   #1
bmdbley'sBro
wouldu like some tinfoil?
 
bmdbley'sBro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in your attic!
Posts: 4,643
Arrow something tells me we should all watch our driving in Ottawa for the next while..

the 'mobile tax collection' unit(s) might be needing to generate some revenue's

yeah a simple $37 million worth

Quote:
Light-rail truths hurt city in wallet

Several truths emerged at Friday’s emergency city council meeting, none of them particularly pretty.

The first and ugliest truth?

Ottawa taxpayers are stuck with paying $37 million and are getting absolutely nothing in return
.

As Gloucester-Southgate Coun. Diane Deans said in an emotional diatribe aimed at Mayor Larry O’Brien, cancelling the north-south deal crafted under former mayor Bob Chiarelli was a bad decision.

Here’s another truth: The north-south deal was just one small piece of the light-rail puzzle, and it’s tiresome hearing suggestions otherwise.

Under the cancelled project, an east-west line was planned for, as was the downtown tunnel.

Chiarelli just made the mistake of thinking too small.

And now taxpayers are paying $37 million for nothing under the leadership of a mayor who campaigned on a zero means zero platform.

Deans couldn’t hold herself back, reminding O’Brien of his campaign pledge to freeze taxes for four years straight.

“I cannot justify $37 million for zero. Zero means zero and we are getting zero for $37 million,” she said. “This is the worst decision this council has ever made and now we’re paying the price.”

Doling out $37 million for nothing is a new low, even for this motley crew.


Sadly, the $37 million is just the tip of the financial iceberg.

There’s another truth.

The real cost of cancelling the north-south light-rail plan will probably never be known.

Just try calculating staff time, legal fees, land acquisitions, the $1 million the other two competing companies each received, consultants, the setting up and then the dismantling of the light-rail office. It’s a long list, and it’s getting longer.

Another truth?

Councillors knew the day was coming when they’d have to fork over millions upon millions because of their decision — or is that indecision?

They were told at an in-camera meeting that the price tag — depending on the scenario — could go as high as $100 million. Legal staff say this is likely as good as it gets.

If you want more truths, city councillors who voted against cancelling the deal were remarkably restrained with their “I told you sos.”

They have good reason to be angry and bitter. They wanted the plan, and now are having to see $37 million — which should be going to good use — being absolutely wasted.

“I find myself in an appalling situation,” said Somerset Coun. Diane Holmes. “It was clear the north-south was one leg, it was the first leg of a city-wide project. It was affordable and we had the funding in place, and it was clear we had a legal agreement.

“It’s a sad day for me and for my residents who wanted the project.”

More truths.

In defending the cost of the cancelled deal, politicians who voted to push the plan to the wayside used very trite phrases to explain the really bad deal.

“Life is unfair,” said Kanata South Coun. Peggy Feltmate.

Bay Coun. Alex Cullen said paying the $37 million was actually better for taxpayers than the alternative.

“It’s a bitter pill, absolutely. We take it and build a better city because we have a better plan,” he said.

And this nonsense from Beacon Hill-Cyrville Coun. Michel Bellemare.

“This is a reasonable settlement, this is the price we have to pay,” he said.

The day’s events gave O’Brien one more chance to repeat one of his favourite sayings.

“It’s never too late to do the right thing,” he said.

One more ugly truth?

The price tag associated with cancelling light rail?

It’s just part of the price Ottawans are paying for electing O’Brien.


http://www.ottawasun.com/news/column.../10848746.html
__________________
bmdbley'sBro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2009, 10:12 PM   #2
Old_School
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 249
They're more likely going to stiff property taxes by an extra $150-200. Frankly, I think O'Brien has deep enough pockets - he should pay, and sue Chiarelli for the shit plan that caused the problem in the first place.
__________________
A bunch of 20+ year old cars.
Old_School is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 12:02 AM   #3
everlast
if I lived . I would be ~
 
everlast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 5,847
I know this is bad and everything.. but think about it for a minute. What would have been worse.. Paying $100M to back out of a sour deal, or paying $350M for a light rail that wouldn't have met the needs of the residents, cost tens of millions per year forever to keep running, wouldn't have been profitable, and run the risk of enormous cost overruns?

Rail cost overruns are the norm, and we could have been looking at spending close to a billion dollars for it. That's probably $950M more than the average estimate.

It sure is easier to blame the current major and staff though. It's like Chrysler making piles of shit for 25 years and the Liberal party, union and mopar workers blaming the Harper government for their "failure to protect Canadian jobs". Maybe Chrysler should have made better ****ing cars, assholes.

This finger pointing shit pisses me off. Can you tell? LOL.
__________________
everlast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 01:06 PM   #4
chromius
6th Gear Member
 
chromius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
Originally Posted by everlast View Post
I know this is bad and everything.. but think about it for a minute. What would have been worse.. Paying $100M to back out of a sour deal, or paying $350M for a light rail that wouldn't have met the needs of the residents, cost tens of millions per year forever to keep running, wouldn't have been profitable, and run the risk of enormous cost overruns?

Rail cost overruns are the norm, and we could have been looking at spending close to a billion dollars for it. That's probably $950M more than the average estimate.

It sure is easier to blame the current major and staff though. It's like Chrysler making piles of shit for 25 years and the Liberal party, union and mopar workers blaming the Harper government for their "failure to protect Canadian jobs". Maybe Chrysler should have made better ****ing cars, assholes.

This finger pointing shit pisses me off. Can you tell? LOL.
+1 There are many people to blame, but in the long run I'd much rather pay this settlement then have a useless light rail system, that even by the original estimates would have only met the transit needs for 8 years, then would have had to have been reworked to the point of pulling half the system up again anyway.

However, on that note, to pay for this settlement they should not be increasing our taxes, even for a one time deal. There are plenty of pet projects (Cough*Useless library*cough) that could be dropped to pay for this.
__________________
Photobucket
chromius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2009, 09:52 PM   #5
Old_School
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by everlast View Post
It sure is easier to blame the current major and staff though. It's like Chrysler making piles of shit for 25 years and the Liberal party, union and mopar workers blaming the Harper government for their "failure to protect Canadian jobs". Maybe Chrysler should have made better ****ing cars, assholes.

This finger pointing shit pisses me off. Can you tell? LOL.
You'll note I blame Chiarelli for the shitty first plan. Whether the staff at the time is also to blame depends on whether they recommended it, or whether the mayor rammed it down their throats. I blame O'Brien for a bunch of stuff, mainly his answer to every cost overrun being to send the taxpayers another bill.

As Chromius says, maybe they should start looking at some other projects first. Ottawa has a long history of bad management. I suppose we, the voters (or the majority who ignore city council elections) are really the ones to blam. It doesn't make the shit sandwitch taste better though.
__________________
A bunch of 20+ year old cars.
Old_School is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 09:42 AM   #6
carjoe
6th Gear Member
 
carjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 1,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old_School View Post

As Chromius says, maybe they should start looking at some other projects first.
*cough* Glen Cairns flooding *cough*
__________________

93 325is - sold!


2000 540ia- sold!


carjoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 11:16 AM   #7
Jamil20
3rd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 547
They should go after all the cyclists constantly violating traffic laws. It's an untapped potential for revenue.
Jamil20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 11:37 AM   #8
everlast
if I lived . I would be ~
 
everlast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 5,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamil20 View Post
They should go after all the cyclists constantly violating traffic laws. It's an untapped potential for revenue.
And they could pin it as a safety measure since there have been so many accidents. Good idea!

Someone at city hall will see the stats for bike accidents go way down in the winter though and cancel the project. *duh*
__________________
everlast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2009, 02:10 PM   #9
gervs
2nd Gear Member
 
gervs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 288
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamil20 View Post
They should go after all the cyclists constantly violating traffic laws. It's an untapped potential for revenue.

Hah, nice.


and

Quote:
Originally Posted by everlast View Post
It sure is easier to blame the current major and staff though. It's like Chrysler making piles of shit for 25 years and the Liberal party, union and mopar workers blaming the Harper government for their "failure to protect Canadian jobs". Maybe Chrysler should have made better ****ing cars, assholes.
+1 Well said!
gervs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2009, 08:36 AM   #10
slemmer
Driving in the fast lane
 
slemmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Missed in 'sauga
Posts: 2,979
At least the gas is cheap in Ottawa
__________________

'04 645cic
'05 GMC Sierra SLT Z71 CCSB 4x4
'02 Regal LS
'00 740i Sport
slemmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.