s.172 Street racing charter challenge fails

[chromius]

Originally Posted by Dr. Flyview

Chromius, it looks like you know a little about the law. Do you agree with what I've said?

Yes. Claiming that somehow after you hit 50km/h over the limit you now have a reasonable defense of "taking care not to break the law", is ludicrous. That's like saying your defense in a murder trial could be "well I tried not to murder the guy"

Simple fact is that years and years of law and precedent have shown speeding to be an absolute liability offence, and now suddenly this justice, thinks that changes at 50km/h over? I don't think so.

And number 2 you're spot on.

I don't really know that much about law, but I've done a lot of research into this subject. A coworker got nabbed under this, and I did a lot of research for his trial, as well as research for the many letters I've sent to MPP's.

[Ceeker]

simple...DON'T street race.. save yourself a ton of PITA red tape, money, time off work which again means more money. lawyer - still MORE money, Record - Loss of money due to criminal record and not being able GET a job = loss of income and if you were working most probably lose your job.... STILL more money for Insurance if you can now afford to drive... the impound and lic suspension is just the start. The list goes on... Not to mention the intrinsic value in $$$$ lost in potential future earnings....

If you ask me. The RISK vs the reward to "WIN" doesn't measure up...
Not a big enough risk to worth getting pinched by the law..

I suppose someone always wants to be the Martyr?

[chromius]

Originally Posted by mirek

Re #2: what about all the people that are in JAIL awaiting trail, how is this any different? same thing.

It's very very different. For those people to be in jail, 1. they would have had an arrest warrant issued by a judge, where evidence was analyzed to determine if an arrest was legal , and 2. would have been given a bail hearing to determine if they should be allowed out on bail, this hearing would be in front of a judge also.

For this to be the same, both the arrest and bail hearing would have to be done by a traffic cop on the side of the road with no evidence verification.

[BlitzSix]

Originally Posted by Ceeker

simple...DON'T street race.. save yourself a ton of PITA red tape, money, time off work which again means more money. lawyer - still MORE money, Record - Loss of money due to criminal record and not being able GET a job = loss of income and if you were working most probably lose your job.... STILL more money for Insurance if you can now afford to drive... the impound and lic suspension is just the start. The list goes on... Not to mention the intrinsic value in $$$$ lost in potential future earnings....

If you ask me. The RISK vs the reward to "WIN" doesn't measure up...
Not a big enough risk to worth getting pinched by the law..

I suppose someone always wants to be the Martyr?

Try to look at the big picture.

It's not black and white "me no street race , me get no ticket... me street race, me get ticket".

The point is that they're giving the cop the power to judge the situation so quickly. And it's not always street racing. They can claim you were "racing" when you were driving normally (how many people with modded cars have had this happen? MANY)... and they can get you with that law for pretty much anything.

If you ever chirp your tires, or do anything minor like that, even accidentally? You can be charged with stunting where the same law applies.

[mirek]

Originally Posted by chromius

It's very very different. For those people to be in jail, 1. they would have had an arrest warrant issued by a judge, where evidence was analyzed to determine if an arrest was legal , and 2. would have been given a bail hearing to determine if they should be allowed out on bail, this hearing would be in front of a judge also.

For this to be the same, both the arrest and bail hearing would have to be done by a traffic cop on the side of the road with no evidence verification.

Say that person is charged with vehicular manslaughter, and they confiscate the car at the scene, same thing. They confiscate the vehicle in which the crime took place in, no?

[propr'one]

Like i've always said, they won. I barely ever break 150 anymore. Its not fair, or right, or just, or even legal, but they still win.

[damameke]

Definition of "stunt driving law"

The new law introduces strict new penalties for "stunt driving". If you are determined in the sole discretion of a police officer to be "stunt driving", you will have your vehicle seized for 7 days, lose your license for 7 days, and face a fine between $2,000 and $10,000. This is not determined in a court, it is at the roadside, and there is no appeals process.

Under the new law, it will be considered "stunt driving" if you do any of the following:

- lifting any tire from the surface of the road (wheelies or stoppies)
- intentionally causing any tire to lose traction while turning (skids or drifting)
- having the intention of causing a vehicle to spin (not sure how they're going to measure intentions...)
- driving a vehicle in oncoming lanes next to another vehicle longer than is "resonably" required to pass
- driving with someone in the trunk (not sure what this has to do with racing or stunting)
- driving while not sitting in the driver's seat
- driving more than 50kph (approx. 30mph) over the speed limit
- driving in a way that prevents others from passing
- slowing down with the intention of slowing or interfering with another vehicle
- driving with the inention of driving as close as possible to a vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object (i'm not sure what this one is about)
- jumping a left turn at a green light before allowing straight-through traffic to proceed

so, if you are caught doing 50 over the speed limit, the police will act based on one the definitions.. so its at his discretion...

[Dr. Flyview]

Originally Posted by damameke

Definition of "stunt driving law"

The new law introduces strict new penalties for "stunt driving". If you are determined in the sole discretion of a police officer to be "stunt driving", you will have your vehicle seized for 7 days, lose your license for 7 days, and face a fine between $2,000 and $10,000. This is not determined in a court, it is at the roadside, and there is no appeals process.

Under the new law, it will be considered "stunt driving" if you do any of the following:

- lifting any tire from the surface of the road (wheelies or stoppies)
- intentionally causing any tire to lose traction while turning (skids or drifting)
- having the intention of causing a vehicle to spin (not sure how they're going to measure intentions...)
- driving a vehicle in oncoming lanes next to another vehicle longer than is "resonably" required to pass
- driving with someone in the trunk (not sure what this has to do with racing or stunting)
- driving while not sitting in the driver's seat
- driving more than 50kph (approx. 30mph) over the speed limit
- driving in a way that prevents others from passing
- slowing down with the intention of slowing or interfering with another vehicle
- driving with the inention of driving as close as possible to a vehicle, pedestrian or fixed object (i'm not sure what this one is about)
- jumping a left turn at a green light before allowing straight-through traffic to proceed

so, if you are caught doing 50 over the speed limit, the police will act based on one the definitions.. so its at his discretion...

Simple! They are trying to limit "The Transporter" vigilantes in BMWs.

[mirek]

i dont get the problem, why are you driving over 150 anyways? limit is 100, if you want to drive fast go to the track or fly over to germany and hit up the autobahn.

[Ceeker]

Originally Posted by BlitzSix

Try to look at the big picture.

It's not black and white "me no street race , me get no ticket... me street race, me get ticket".

The point is that they're giving the cop the power to judge the situation so quickly. And it's not always street racing. They can claim you were "racing" when you were driving normally (how many people with modded cars have had this happen? MANY)... and they can get you with that law for pretty much anything.

If you ever chirp your tires, or do anything minor like that, even accidentally? You can be charged with stunting where the same law applies.

That is the big picture; its your "potential" big picture. Do you honestly give a shit about the other guy who got pinched for chirping his rubber and getting nabbed? When you're in court I don't think you'll be challenging the law re: the "technicalities." and getting all righteous about what was perceived to be and what was. I've had so many tickets coming out of my wazoo that I could have lost my license probably 2 or 3 times over the years. I am speaking from years of experience being in front of the judge in traffic court. I know how to play the game in reducing or getting off completely. Have done it many times but it's not fun, a waste of time and money. Times are changing, get use to it. If you are going to play then prepare to take the risk in getting caught. The "law" is the "law" and unless you got deep pockets to challenge this and to amend it. All the power to you...it isn't going to change anything getting into a pissing contest over this matter. I know I want to keep my license. Tell the judge the next time you get to court over alleged "street racing" how unfair you think the officers judgment was. Even if it was as little as chirping your wheels by accident. They are out to make money...don't give them a reason to fatten the coffers of the gov't. Also most cops are not on the up and up with regards to the highway traffic act rules and regs. I've had cops take out there books in front of me trying to find something to pin on me years back when things weren't so strict. Also remember...what you hold in mind most of the time eventually becomes your reality...!!

[craigIS]

Originally Posted by Ceeker

The "law" is the "law"

thats as true as it gets. until the law is changed to be less strict, or is thrown out the window completely; the law is what it is.

i used to drive like a complete idiot; got a bunch of tickets, and then the new street, ans stunt driving law came into affect. now i dont drive like i used to, because it seems like im a cop magnate. as long as i adhere to the law; i will be fine. if you dont want tickets, and dont want to go through the hassle of fighting the tickets, just obey the law and youll do fine; works fore me.

[Duct_Taper]

Bumping an old thread... but a quick update on a charter challenge that was successful:

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/692925

[Fel]

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124810

Interesting stuff!

[craigIS]

i suppose that the 62 year old lady should not have been charged under the law. the law is called a street racing law for a reason, or so you would think. if your are doing 50 over for fun or your racing, ya, the law should be followed. although i dont believe it was necessary for the lady to be passing at 50 over the limit, she should have received a normal reduced ticket. i incidents such as this, i think the cops are unknowingly misusing their powers. they are following the new law, but, unless someone is racing or just being reckless they should be shown some leniency.

[TNation]

Originally Posted by chromius

Luckily, from the looks of it, this is a lower court, so as a result this is not a precedent setting decision. This ruling can be appealed. And Also, won't be used as precedent in future cases in which these charter violations have been cited.

So, This isn't the end yet.

exactly. I hope this gets appealed ASAP