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Old 08-04-2009, 11:26 AM   #1
BMW_7
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Wait times for court dates



I tried to be slick and beat the system by fighting all my parking tickets when I lived in Toronto last year. Lo and behold my first notice came in mail yesterday, court date September 28 2009 for a July 20 2008 infraction date.. for a $30 ticket..retards. I'm not gonna be in Ontario in September either.

Where can I get the form to fill out for Charter 11b violation for unreasonable wait times, etc. And, generally, does this work?
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:37 AM   #2
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Its not unreasonable. You got SERVED!
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:41 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by sirex View Post
Its not unreasonable. You got SERVED!
its over 1 year .. it should be considered unreasonable
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:46 AM   #4
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You should have a good argument with a 14 month delay. I've never filed, so I don't know how to proceed. I threatened to file once for a 15 month delay and had the ticket thrown out.
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:50 AM   #5
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rofl its only 30 ****ing bucks, i bet they lost more money filing my shit and sending it to my old adress (where I don't live anymore)
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:15 PM   #6
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Askov ruling:

If your trial date is more than 8 months away from the offence date, and your court date is more than two weeks away, you can motion for a stay of proceedings based on a violation of your Charter Rights (Section 11b: to be tried in a reasonable amount of time) based on the case of R v. Askov.

You must file a "Notice of Constitutional Question" form to the crown, The Attorney General of Ontario, and the Attorney General of Canada. This lets the court know that you intend to dispute the charge with a charter claim. You must do this more than two weeks (15 days or more) before your court date. If mailing the forms, again, be sure to use registered mail. Once you have submitted these forms, go to your originally scheduled court date. If you don't submit these forms, your motion will be denied, regardless of the amount of time since your court date.


The ruling that 'superceded' R. v. Askov is R. v. Morin.

Essentially, to show that your section 11b rights have been violated, the following are considered:
1. the length of the delay; (you have to show that the length is unreasonable)
2. waiver of time periods; (did you waive your section 11b rights?)
3. the reasons for the delay, including
(a) inherent time requirements of the case, (some cases have a huge amount of evidence to go through)
(b) actions of the accused, (did you cause delay in any way? changing court dates, etc.)
(c) actions of the Crown, (did the crown cause delay in any way? fail to give disclosure, changing the court date, etc.)
(d) limits on institutional resources, and (if everyone is waiting 1 year for their court date, a 1 year wait time might not be seen as unreasonable).
(e) other reasons for delay; and
4. prejudice to the accused. (have you suffered any prejudice as a result of the delay?)

Based on the (B)'s description:, I dont think your rights has been violated,if you did not cause any delay or change court dates, then you have a case but for $30 dollars, you have to fill the form, register the mail etc etc.. better off paying it

A long while back, I had a speeding ticket that I pleaded not guity to and was waiting for acourt date but it was thrown out due to the Askov ruling.

I dug out the above information for a friend who is fighting a ticket that is almost a year old, as of now. still no court date...

Last edited by damameke; 08-04-2009 at 09:23 PM.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:50 PM   #7
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Yeah I see what you're saying. I could print out the constitutional question letter, or just pay the damn thing..

Does anyone know if the set fine applies to when you get the court date?
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Last edited by BMW_7; 08-04-2009 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damameke View Post
Askov ruling:

If your trial date is more than 8 months away from the offence date, and your court date is more than two weeks away, you can motion for a stay of proceedings based on a violation of your Charter Rights (Section 11b: to be tried in a reasonable amount of time) based on the case of R v. Askov.

You must file a "Notice of Constitutional Question" form to the crown, The Attorney General of Ontario, and the Attorney General of Canada. This lets the court know that you intend to dispute the charge with a charter claim. You must do this more than two weeks (15 days or more) before your court date. If mailing the forms, again, be sure to use registered mail. Once you have submitted these forms, go to your originally scheduled court date. If you don't submit these forms, your motion will be denied, regardless of the amount of time since your court date.


The ruling that 'superceded' R. v. Askov is R. v. Morin.

Essentially, to show that your section 11b rights have been violated, the following are considered:
1. the length of the delay; (you have to show that the length is unreasonable)
2. waiver of time periods; (did you waive your section 11b rights?)
3. the reasons for the delay, including
(a) inherent time requirements of the case, (some cases have a huge amount of evidence to go through)
(b) actions of the accused, (did you cause delay in any way? changing court dates, etc.)
(c) actions of the Crown, (did the crown cause delay in any way? fail to give disclosure, changing the court date, etc.)
(d) limits on institutional resources, and (if everyone is waiting 1 year for their court date, a 1 year wait time might not be seen as unreasonable).
(e) other reasons for delay; and
4. prejudice to the accused. (have you suffered any prejudice as a result of the delay?)

Based on the (B)'s description:, I dont think your rights has been violated,if you did not cause any delay or change court dates, then you have a case but for $30 dollars, you have to fill the form, register the mail etc etc.. better off paying it

A long while back, I had a speeding ticket that I pleaded not guity to and was waiting for acourt date but it was thrown out due to the Askov ruling.

I dug out the above information for a friend who is fighting a ticket that is almost a year old, as of now. still no court date...
Do what he said I had a Improper Muffler and Unnecessary noise ticket in Toronto South (old city hall) - both got thrown out.

This may or may not apply to you cause its a parking ticket (only thing they can provide i guess is chalk measurements or w.e.), but for any other ticket request disclosure!!!!!!!! File for disclosure EXACTLY 30 days before your court date and request and let them know that you require it to be mailed to you and will not accept it in any other form. They're butt **** back logged they won't be able to provide it

Guaranteed you will win either from the Askov ruling or due to failure to provide disclosure.
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Old 08-05-2009, 01:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim .E. View Post
Do what he said I had a Improper Muffler and Unnecessary noise ticket in Toronto South (old city hall) - both got thrown out.

This may or may not apply to you cause its a parking ticket (only thing they can provide i guess is chalk measurements or w.e.), but for any other ticket request disclosure!!!!!!!! File for disclosure EXACTLY 30 days before your court date and request and let them know that you require it to be mailed to you and will not accept it in any other form. They're butt **** back logged they won't be able to provide it

Guaranteed you will win either from the Askov ruling or due to failure to provide disclosure.
Who do I send it to? I imagine the prosecutor, but I have no names... Do I just send it to the court adressed to no one?

I know the askov ruling I send to the attorney general.
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Old 08-05-2009, 09:49 AM   #10
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So wait, it's 8 months?
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Old 08-05-2009, 11:31 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by BMW_7 View Post
Who do I send it to? I imagine the prosecutor, but I have no names... Do I just send it to the court adressed to no one?

I know the askov ruling I send to the attorney general.
Depends where you got the ticket.

Here's the phone and fax number for Toronto South:

416-338-7245 (Fax:416 338 6986)

Format:

REQUEST FOR DISCLOSURE

This is a request for full and timely disclosure
of all relative material available to the crown in respect of
the following charge laid under the Highway Traffic Act:
ACCUSED:

Name of Accused
Date of Birth
Address of Accused
Telephone Number
OFFENCE:

Offence number (number on ticket)
Charge on ticket (ex. red light fail to stop HTA 144(18))
Date of the offence
TRIAL:

Trial date, time, courtroom and location
OFFICER IN CHARGE:

Officer's badge number and division

Sincerely, Your name, address, telephone number
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Old 08-05-2009, 12:41 PM   #12
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From your original post you asked;

"Where can I get the form to fill out for Charter 11b violation for unreasonable wait times, etc",,

so you are fighting the offence under the Askov ruling, therefore you require form 4F ("Notice of Constitutional Question"). < consult a lawyer for accuracy of form.

Send to:

The Attorney General of Ontario (as required by section 109 of the Courts of Justice Act)
Constitutional Law Branch
4th floor
720 Bay Street
Toronto, Ontario M5G 2K1
fax: (416) 326-4015

If its me, I will pay the $30, for the time spent to get/fill and register the mail is probably worth more than $30, unless its a hugh fine and demerit points.
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:48 PM   #13
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It can also be a good learning experience if he intends to get many more and knowing the process the first time through will bring experience.
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Old 08-08-2009, 06:17 PM   #14
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bro,

they issue court dates for about 5-10% of all tickets recieved(30$ tickets that is. More expensive tickets are far more likely to get a court date). You got unlucky on one ticket. Just dont go, eat the fine, if you fought 10 tickets, this is probably the only court date you'll get.
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