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Old 11-28-2008, 01:47 PM   #16
doogee
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Yeah it seems the newer cars are getting way too big and fancy.
Seems like they're kind of slipping away from being an "M"
They should all be like the CSL

...well maybe a tad more practical.
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Old 11-28-2008, 01:53 PM   #17
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Real deal ///M cars died with the e36 M3 euro.

The e39 M/e46 M, are nice, but they still have too many electronic gizmos and seem like they might be a bit too disconnected.(I have only ridden in them, so I can't speak for a fact).
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Old 11-28-2008, 04:12 PM   #18
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^^ exactly my point. Day-to-day driving wise, the torquey 3.0L-TT motor is great for zipping through traffic. On a road course, there's nothing like the crisp throttle response of an N/A motor when doing heal/toe manuvers and mid corner modulation. I think BMW ///M division should keep their 120+HP/Liter N/A motors and focus on SERIOUSLY DIETING THEIR CARS. Extensive use of carbon composites, aluminum etc.. whatever it takes to get them 250+kg lighter than their non-M versions.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Most "sports" cars these days... aren't. They're so full of useless luxury crap so that their wealthy owners can get a back massage and warm their ass while listening to satellite radio and follow their gps to the nearest members only. It's retarded. I can understand that for the major money you need to put out these days, people want a little something in return, but so much of it is unnecessary.

Sports cars should have a throttle and a wheel. If you want a fast luxury car, call it that. Don't try to do both.
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Old 11-28-2008, 05:39 PM   #19
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I say A 24 cylinder 8 turbo in a coil-overed shopping cart is the only real solution here. Period.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:06 PM   #20
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I say A 24 cylinder 8 turbo in a coil-overed shopping cart is the only real solution here. Period.
That sounds mighty powerful. But how are you going to fit a 24 cylinder engine in a shopping cart?
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:45 PM   #21
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its a scary thought. think of it like this. most of those turbo M's will defenatly have boost increased by the new owners. 2 years after the lease is over, everything goes back to stock. you go out and buy this 2 year old M with high expectations, and all your going to end up with is a lemon thats spitting out more oil the Mc'Donalds deep friers!

I say **** Turbos in M cars! Heck throw them in the alpinas! M's have always been known for high compression high reving torquey motors.
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Old 11-29-2008, 04:39 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by bmwm5lover View Post
Real deal ///M cars died with the e36 M3 euro.

The e39 M/e46 M, are nice, but they still have too many electronic gizmos and seem like they might be a bit too disconnected.(I have only ridden in them, so I can't speak for a fact).

the fact is that the e36 had as bad steering feel as the e46. They remain deeply challenging chassis tho...the e46 in no way is a bad car. Most serious car mags WILL rate the e46 as a better car than the e36 M3
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Old 11-29-2008, 11:32 AM   #23
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lol, the purist arguments are coming out.

Fact is, the "real" enthusiasts who want hardcore track machines aren't buying BMWs, and never have been. It's a luxury sports sedan, and this is not new. BMW does market research, and this is what the $100k+ junior executives demand from a car (lots of power, insane handling numbers, electronic features galore, etc etc). It's an everything car, if you want real performance you'd be driving an Elise, or a kit car.

Sure, the M brand philosophy established with the M1 and then passed on the E30 M3 is vastly different from what has gone on since (hell even the E24 and E28 models are pretty OFF from the track story fairy tales), but people don't really want that today. If they did, BMW would be importing CSLs and actually building 135 Tii models.
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Old 11-29-2008, 01:34 PM   #24
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lol, the purist arguments are coming out.

Fact is, the "real" enthusiasts who want hardcore track machines aren't buying BMWs, and never have been. It's a luxury sports sedan, and this is not new. BMW does market research, and this is what the $100k+ junior executives demand from a car (lots of power, insane handling numbers, electronic features galore, etc etc). It's an everything car, if you want real performance you'd be driving an Elise, or a kit car.

Sure, the M brand philosophy established with the M1 and then passed on the E30 M3 is vastly different from what has gone on since (hell even the E24 and E28 models are pretty OFF from the track story fairy tales), but people don't really want that today. If they did, BMW would be importing CSLs and actually building 135 Tii models.
I disagree to some extent. Some of us want just enough luxuries to make daily driving comfortible, but also want a real driver car, something that gives you feedback, doesn't have any traction control ammenities, is play down and dirty fun.

That is why I like how a lot of cars in europe you can get as an S(regular) or as an LE. The e34 M5 could be had as a bare bones front power windows only, or as a fully loaded, leather et all rocket ship.

I feel that they need to continue this trend.

If I was buying a brand new BMW 135 or 335i tomorow, I would want, PW, Sunroof, nice sound system, and AC. I don't need the million other gadgets that would come in a 335i. They weight the car down. The provide more unnecesary distractions for the driver, and are just plain useless 85% of the time.

BTW, I am not a hardcore purist. If I was, I would be raving how the underpowered, cool looking, 4 banger, equivalent of a Civic(albeit much better), is the greatest thing since slice bread.
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Old 11-29-2008, 04:17 PM   #25
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^^ But reality is the majority of new M3 buyers are not like you (with no offense meant).

The only turbo car I have driven is my S4. I've chipped it and I now lover turbos. But I have run into the lag problem once or twice when I was creeping along slowly in 2nd gear and when I go to accelerate.... nothing.

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Old 11-29-2008, 06:49 PM   #26
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They should supercharge the new M cars. Better power curve, powers there when you need it.
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:46 PM   #27
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^^ But reality is the majority of new M3 buyers are not like you (with no offense meant).
Exactly what Geoff said. Terry, you don't fit the demographic of a typical new M buyer. You know, 30+ year old average age and $150k+ annual salary, etc. More like 40+ and $250k+ for an M5/M6.
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:47 PM   #28
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They should supercharge the new M cars. Better power curve, powers there when you need it.
With one of the main goals being fuel economy, there's just no way.
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Old 12-01-2008, 04:15 PM   #29
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Enthusiasts car will probably now come in the way of a light weight CSL 1 series (Return of the Evo?)
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:39 PM   #30
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Exactly what Geoff said. Terry, you don't fit the demographic of a typical new M buyer. You know, 30+ year old average age and $150k+ annual salary, etc. More like 40+ and $250k+ for an M5/M6.
Sadly, you are right. Most of us do not fall under the targeted demographic.
I do feel that having two variants of the same car is a good way to attract more(younger?) potential buyers.
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