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Old 11-26-2008, 10:56 PM   #16
raymond3080
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:07 PM   #17
ZiMMie
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Wait,
so u had a full 330i parts car?
u should switched over the pedals + harness and kept the 330i TB.
Most importantly the intake manifold/injectors on the m54 its much much bigger than the one on the m52. the motor will breath much better (more pwr) if it has the m54 manifolds.

Also done forget to switch over those 330 Brakes.

Good Job!
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:23 PM   #18
raymond3080
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If i wanted to dick around on that car longer i guess i could have but i just wanted to keep it simple so i could get my car on the road as fast as i could...i did switch the injectors didnt make any difference. as for the intakes they are the same just the MAF is larger and the end of the intake boot i looked at everything beside each other... and as for the brakes i didnt feel like buying pads all that crap lol i wasnt planning on even changing my motor!
thanks though!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiMMie View Post
Wait,
so u had a full 330i parts car?
u should switched over the pedals + harness and kept the 330i TB.
Most importantly the intake manifold/injectors on the m54 its much much bigger than the one on the m52. the motor will breath much better (more pwr) if it has the m54 manifolds.

Also done forget to switch over those 330 Brakes.

Good Job!
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Old 11-27-2008, 09:08 AM   #19
arsevader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiMMie View Post
It doesn't matter how you word it.
The next time i do a job on an m52 motor the require me taking out the throttle body, ill take some pics/vid for you.

The throttle Butterfly on an M52E46 its not electronic controlled.
If you are wondering what connects to it, its the TPS which is built inside the actual throttle.
This'll be the last I mention this as I don't want to take this thread too far off topic and I have no desire to start an argument with you Zimme as I know that you aren't an idiot.

Read this doc for an overview of the Siemens MS42.0 system used in the e46 M52. It clearly shows that the throttle uses a motor driven throttle with input from the cable.

http://www.europeantransmissions.com...MW/EML-BMW.pdf
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Old 11-27-2008, 10:52 AM   #20
raymond3080
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Now i see why your confused!
All the 330 and 328 and 325s have electronic like whats in this pdf.

Now the 323 (m52tu25) does had a electronic motor on the inverse side(left) vs (right) on other models...but thats for cruise control! if you dont believe me when i search for my vacuum leak ill take some pics of it for ya...or you can come by and rev it from the throttle body your self!

hope that helps any confusion


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Originally Posted by arsevader View Post
This'll be the last I mention this as I don't want to take this thread too far off topic and I have no desire to start an argument with you Zimme as I know that you aren't an idiot.

Read this doc for an overview of the Siemens MS42.0 system used in the e46 M52. It clearly shows that the throttle uses a motor driven throttle with input from the cable.

http://www.europeantransmissions.com...MW/EML-BMW.pdf
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:18 AM   #21
arsevader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymond3080 View Post
Now i see why your confused!
All the 330 and 328 and 325s have electronic like whats in this pdf.

Now the 323 (m52tu25) does had a electronic motor on the inverse side(left) vs (right) on other models...but thats for cruise control! if you dont believe me when i search for my vacuum leak ill take some pics of it for ya...or you can come by and rev it from the throttle body your self!

hope that helps any confusion
That's a kind offer.

I will continue this discussion though as I know I'm right, not often but right about this.

http://www.beisansystems.com/misc/SE...ROL_SYSTEM.pdf

Please read pages 51-52 for an explanation of how the MDK works on the m52Tu engine. The throttle cable is in fact a 'backup' to the main throttle motor if the system fails, which is why people are led to believe it actually controls the throttle plate. That's just the failsafe.

I do however have a lot of respect for the work it takes to swap a modern engine.
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:03 PM   #22
raymond3080
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oh wow...i guess thats how they started out with the electronic throttle control... so its a cable actuating a motor that then precisely controls the throttle body...with out that technical document one would never know...thats why i thought it only did cruise control...thanks for that information! Where do you find such technical documents? I always like to know how everything works fully...
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:20 PM   #23
arsevader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymond3080 View Post
oh wow...i guess thats how they started out with the electronic throttle control... so its a cable actuating a motor that then precisely controls the throttle body...with out that technical document one would never know...thats why i thought it only did cruise control...thanks for that information! Where do you find such technical documents? I always like to know how everything works fully...
I've been collecting links and such for a long time. All found with some crazy google search terms.

It is missleading to just look at the throttle as the cable does in fact move the butterfly but without the docs you wouldn't know that is just the backup to the motor. The idle is controlled by both the throttle and the ICV unlike on older cars which just rely on the ICV.

Without a motor controlling the throttle there would be no ASC traction control as this is how the ASC/DSC system backs off the throttle.

Glad to help. That's why these forums can actually be informative as long as people keep an open mind (myself included)
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Old 11-27-2008, 11:30 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arsevader View Post
That's a kind offer.

I will continue this discussion though as I know I'm right, not often but right about this.

http://www.beisansystems.com/misc/SE...ROL_SYSTEM.pdf

Please read pages 51-52 for an explanation of how the MDK works on the m52Tu engine. The throttle cable is in fact a 'backup' to the main throttle motor if the system fails, which is why people are led to believe it actually controls the throttle plate. That's just the failsafe.

I do however have a lot of respect for the work it takes to swap a modern engine.
Great Read.
In short its controlled by a Mechnical Input. Which makes part mechanical part electric intresting.

What i don't understand why there is ZERO play between the butterfly and the actual cable. which made me doubt u.
what i don't understand is that even thou, the document its saying that its electronic controlled, logically i don't understand how its possible for the butterflies to be controlled by an actual motor (may be the motor only works when there is traction loss)If u've open a fully electric butterfly vs, the one on a m52, you can actually feel the resistence of the motor where by on the m52, there is no resistance which doesn't make me belive what im reading. it logically doesn't make sense.

I will love to see the physical guts of this thing.
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Last edited by ZiMMie; 11-27-2008 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 11-28-2008, 06:30 AM   #25
arsevader
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It is odd yes. I suspect that the motor kicks in as soon as you start to put tension on the cable and from then on uses the cable position for its input.

I would imagine that after this system was developed that they realized it would be simpler to just control the throttle though an electronic system.

Just another in a long list of oddball things about BMWs and cars in general.

Glad I could help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ZiMMie View Post
Great Read.
In short its controlled by a Mechnical Input. Which makes part mechanical part electric intresting.

What i don't understand why there is ZERO play between the butterfly and the actual cable. which made me doubt u.
what i don't understand is that even thou, the document its saying that its electronic controlled, logically i don't understand how its possible for the butterflies to be controlled by an actual motor (may be the motor only works when there is traction loss)If u've open a fully electric butterfly vs, the one on a m52, you can actually feel the resistence of the motor where by on the m52, there is no resistance which doesn't make me belive what im reading. it logically doesn't make sense.

I will love to see the physical guts of this thing.
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Old 10-27-2009, 07:15 PM   #26
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great thread!!

i know this is a huge bump, but i just wanted to have the attention of the OP: you have a PM
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:24 AM   #27
MANDD
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Just to clear up the throttle issue, the E46 M52 motor uses an (MDK) electronic throttle (siemens MS42.0). Yes there is a cable, this is used to actuate the throttle potentiometers (just like the M54 which is part of the accelerator pedal - PWG).

The cable is also used has a back up in the event of the MDK failure however it does not allow full throttle. The MDK is controlled by the MS42.0 ECM/DME and is pulse width modulated in both directions (600Hz).

There are several more functions of this electronic throttle which is a course on it's own. When you look at the throttle you will see that one side is for cable, which again is for the potentiometer and fail safe operation. And the other side covered by a black housing, is for the throttle operation (MDK motor).

Mark.
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