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Old 07-02-2007, 05:11 PM   #31
T.Dot_E30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtthiaga
Tell my again how you maintain a brand new BMW, so the control arms don't go out at 30K
Dont drive in so many potholes, but i agree bmw ball joints are weak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtthiaga
or steering rack leaks at 50K?
Hmm, i guess thats warrenty issues, you got lucky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtthiaga
How again do you maintain a BMW so it's Vanos unit doesn't fail at 70,000KM, or its' plastic waterpump impeller doesn't give way, or the rear subframe does not rip out?
I haven't quite figured outwhat causes the Vanos to go, but ya another weak point i guess. You would have needed to change your waterpump soon anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtthiaga
My 2002 e46, which I bought brand new, babied and maintained well, has had $7000 worth of warranty claims. Most of the common e46 problems I 've had.
Before you start blaming me on how I drive, I purchased a Honda Accord around the same time as my BMW. It has more miles, and has not had a single failure..
That's right. Not a single failure.
Hmm, I guess your just lucky.


Both my BMWs have spent more time at the dealership than probably 10 of my previous cars combined.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtthiaga
My Vanos unit is going, and I changed the oil ever 10,000KM, rather than the recommended 24,000KM. It's all highway driving too. My car has 60K on it!!!
Vanos units fail all the time in BMW's. That's unacceptable, when other manufactures can make variable timing top ends that are durable.
I guess i shouldn't buy an e46 then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtthiaga
Germany Engineering is not what it is cracked up to be. In 2004, consumers reports indicated that VW was one of the worst manufacturers. Even the heads of VW were confirming that reliability is an issue and are working on improving it. According to studies, a used 1998 Lexus LS400 is more reliable than a brand new BMW 7 Series!

I love this quote from an article about most and least reliable vehicles.

European sedans may have many wonderful attributes. Reliability, however, is not among them, according to the latest Consumer Reports reliability survey. Sedans from VW, Mercedes, BMW fare poorly while Japanese models take the top spots.
You wanna be a baller you gotta pay the price

Haha I hope you know im just messing with you guys im sure you all have legitamite claims.
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:15 PM   #32
Deep 3.2TL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30
You got lucky and the bmw caught upto you. Was the bmw tranny ever serviced?


Was the power steering fluid ever changed? After time the fluid brakes down and the pump has to work harder, causing it to fail after contanst neglect, or if it ran low and you continued to drive it empty that could cause it also, again it could have been any number of things.


Have your power steering fluid changed as recommended.


Use it regularly or ensure it greased before the winter. or learn how to work it and not jam it.


Don't let Shitty Machanics work on your car.
All rediculously stupid points. Power steering fluid shouldn't need to be changed at 90K. Power steering pumps shouldn't just spontaneously crack and lose all their fluid.

Work a headliner? For ****s sake - where do you get off?

Shitty mechanics? I guess you must think Charlie's shitty... only he and BMW Mississauga worked on my car.

You're full of it and are reaching - you know it.

Deep
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Old 07-02-2007, 06:36 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30
Dont drive in so many potholes, but i agree bmw ball joints are weak.
.
I can't seem to explain this clear enough. It's not from abuse. This car travels on smooth 407 roads (got the 407 bills to prove it), and highways without pot holes. I never take the car downtown. Ball joints, is purely the fault of BWM design, and their engineering stubbornness.

Itís not the mechanics, or the driver, itís the manufacturer and Tier 1 part suppliers BMW use.

If it is marketed as the ultimate driving machine, then it should take even a little bit of abuse, and not just be a garage queen Mine car doesn't have any abuse, is well maintained, and still fails.

I even knew about the weak POS front ends, and drove the car accordingly to avoid this issue. Even then, at 30K, both went. There's German Engineering for you.

Japanese Engineering >> German Engineering.

My next car is probably going to be the 335i. This time, I am most definitely going to drive the car hard, and give it back wet. Iíll lease it for the warranty period and walk away from it.

Iíll see if I can make the head gaskets go flying out before I reach 50K.
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Old 07-02-2007, 08:01 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL
^^^^ I LOVE how BMW owners think that BMW's are the best things on the planet and that all these issues are acceptable. I guess that's how they've managed to become such a company - instilling this "holier than thou" attitude into their owners... As a former owner, I was like that too - then I saw the light...
Wow, who shit in your cornflakes? If you hate these cars and their owners so much, get out of a BMW forum! I didn't say these issues are acceptable, nor do I think these cars are the best things on the planet. They are well engineered machines and in the case of the E34s I've owned and the E30 I own, they are exceptionally good at doing what I want them to do - better than any other I could find. What I DID say is that at least older BMWs why my experience lies (which I clearly qualified), did not have many problems and the ones they did have, were nothing spectacular and they rarely made the car undriveable. Most of the problems are electrical but that's just an accepted trait of German cars - advanced electronics that don't stand the test of time. I like these cars for their mechanical engineering, not electrical.

There is no car or manufacturer that is perfect. My dad's 99 Odyssey which he bought new, has gone through 2 transmissions within 50,000kms since new. Just because you had a lemon or a good example, interpolating your experience to the entire brand is very weak minded. Regardless of how sour you may be at the brand, BMW remains one of the mechanically highest quality cars on the market. If you don't believe me, you can read JD Power's surveys, or sit on your thumb and rotate, either way, I don't really care. Calling people stupid for defending BMWs on a BMW board is asinine. What are you trying to achieve? You want us to "see the light", admit our cars suck and buy Hondas? Or tell you that we envy your brilliant choice to buy a Honda, and stay on a BMW board? Or be right for the sake of being right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL
And for the comment on the oil changes - so are you saying we should stop listening to the BMW engineers who also say we should use only premium in the tank? If we can't trust them to get the oil change interval right, who's to say they know anything they write in the manual?

Deep
Oh nice, so now you're telling me that because I disagree with ONE thing they tell you to do, I MUST disagree with everything they say (like putting premium into a premium only car, or hell, why not use diesel), so I'm wrong. You must have learned how to argue from religious nuts or George W (same thing I guess but it also admits a possibility of failing to comprehend what was said, and replying with a false dilemma proposal).

There are no benefits to doing oil changes every 24,000 kms, other than selling points. You can do what you like but if you do everything the manufacturer says with 0 forethought, you lose all right to whine about the problems you will have after the warranty expires, since at that point, their responsibility for your car, ends.

And to the guy who keeps saying German engineers are so much worse than Japanese, you should check the engine awards. Here's a sample, for the past 12 years, only once did a German engine fail to take top honors, and a Jap is never even close to a 1st place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:08 PM   #35
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Dude, you win.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL
All rediculously stupid points.

For ****s sake - where do you get off?

You're full of it and are reaching - you know it.

Deep
Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30


You wanna be a baller you gotta pay the price

Haha I hope you know im just messing with you guys im sure you all have legitamite claims.
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:51 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Dot_E30
Dude, you win.
Saw your post after mine regarding the playing thing...
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Old 07-02-2007, 09:52 PM   #37
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The japanese beating the germans in reliability is old news...very old news...and when was german cars associated with reliability ever??

BMW's exhibit about average reliability, but it is the best of the germans (except Porsche, but they are not high volume so they don't count)- so whatever problems your having with your BMW, rest assured that half of the people are having it better, and the other half are having it worse than you.

I've had problems with both our BMW's, but none has been so severe that it has left me stranded by the side of the road. The same cannot be said of my domestic driving friends...namely my Chrysler and Ford driving friends...the problems I have had with the BMW's have been minor irritants that either magically fixed itself, or were easily fixed at the shop which I got my car back within the day. Nothing as bad as my friends cars which needed a tow truck and rental car while the car sat in the shop.

But as the old saying goes, nothing runs as bad, but for as long as a GM.
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:00 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigD
Wow, who shit in your cornflakes? If you hate these cars and their owners so much, get out of a BMW forum! I didn't say these issues are acceptable, nor do I think these cars are the best things on the planet. They are well engineered machines and in the case of the E34s I've owned and the E30 I own, they are exceptionally good at doing what I want them to do - better than any other I could find. What I DID say is that at least older BMWs why my experience lies (which I clearly qualified), did not have many problems and the ones they did have, were nothing spectacular and they rarely made the car undriveable. Most of the problems are electrical but that's just an accepted trait of German cars - advanced electronics that don't stand the test of time. I like these cars for their mechanical engineering, not electrical.

There is no car or manufacturer that is perfect. My dad's 99 Odyssey which he bought new, has gone through 2 transmissions within 50,000kms since new. Just because you had a lemon or a good example, interpolating your experience to the entire brand is very weak minded. Regardless of how sour you may be at the brand, BMW remains one of the mechanically highest quality cars on the market. If you don't believe me, you can read JD Power's surveys, or sit on your thumb and rotate, either way, I don't really care. Calling people stupid for defending BMWs on a BMW board is asinine. What are you trying to achieve? You want us to "see the light", admit our cars suck and buy Hondas? Or tell you that we envy your brilliant choice to buy a Honda, and stay on a BMW board? Or be right for the sake of being right?



Oh nice, so now you're telling me that because I disagree with ONE thing they tell you to do, I MUST disagree with everything they say (like putting premium into a premium only car, or hell, why not use diesel), so I'm wrong. You must have learned how to argue from religious nuts or George W (same thing I guess but it also admits a possibility of failing to comprehend what was said, and replying with a false dilemma proposal).

There are no benefits to doing oil changes every 24,000 kms, other than selling points. You can do what you like but if you do everything the manufacturer says with 0 forethought, you lose all right to whine about the problems you will have after the warranty expires, since at that point, their responsibility for your car, ends.

And to the guy who keeps saying German engineers are so much worse than Japanese, you should check the engine awards. Here's a sample, for the past 12 years, only once did a German engine fail to take top honors, and a Jap is never even close to a 1st place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines
I'll agree with you on the older models - I hear much less issue with those - but unfortunately I like newer cars... My dumb luck for getting a lemon - which by the way, I don't think it was - The tranny issue has been well documented here by many other owners as well as several freinds that I have who had these cars.

On the engineers point - I was simply trying to indicate the slippery slope you tread when you tell us to selectively not listen to the advice of the manufacturer on one item, but hard and fast on another. Check yourself before you check others.

And as for the list - bravo to you. I didn't waste my time reading everything about the awards, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they do not take into consideration long term reliability. All I know is my experience - Jap has been good to me. Does that mean I won't own another German? Maybe, maybe not - but it will definitely cause me to think long and hard, especially if that German is BMW.

As for leaving to forum - why? Getting folks like you riled up is amusing at times!

Now who needs to calm down?

Deep
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:11 PM   #39
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Bhahahhahaha you all a bunch of goofs.

This is Case and point!

Cars are designed to fail so you continue purchasing parts. Companies don't make money on cars that donít need service or replacement parts. German, Canadian, French, American, and Japanese all have the same engineering abilities. Face it, all car companies sleep in the same bed and know each others vehicles well. Good designs donít stay secret for long people will find out. A good example of clever design is BMW Virtual Steer Center which gives the car its legendary handling. Every design comes with compromise. With the virtual steer center your loading is on the two ball joints, I wonder why they really fail. Different cars are designed for different needs and tastes. How many Honda or Kia cars can match a BMW or Mercedes attention to interior detail?
Bmw is a genius at marketing and thatís why there such a profitable company. M is now longer means Motorsport, it really means Marketing.

Production is Production. Lazy people here are the same as lazy people any where else in the world. Quality issues will always occur because of laziness, machine breakdowns, and or other reasons. Just because youíre a different country doesnít mean that your product is going to be shit. We have just been brain washed to believe foreign products from lower status countries are no good. Grow up itís the 21st century and China is making a lot more stuff because there product is comparable to everyone elseís.

My last point is the best so make sure you read it slowly

ALL CARS ARE P.O.S THAT WILL COST MONEY TO FIX. EACH COMPANY IS EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR SUCKING AT LIFE AND PRODUCING A SHIT PRODUCT. IF YOUíRE LOOKING FOR RELIABLITY AT A CHEAP PRICE TAKE THE ****ING BUS.

Regards,

Mike
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Old 07-02-2007, 10:46 PM   #40
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I agree that the Japenese make extremly reliable cars. My dad is a driving instructor so he needs a very reliable car. So he buys Mazda's. He has had three and never had any major problems, which i think is amazing considering the punishment there taking.

As for BMW's, our E46 325i sedan gave us no trouble. The only unscheduled trip to the dealer was to replace a faulty oil level sensor. Other then that, there where no problems. The car was just amazing. As for our new E90, there have been no problems to date ( touch wood), but there again its only a week and a half old sooo fingers crossed.

The way i see it, if you want absolute 100% reliabilty go for something Japenese, but if you want something that will thrill you everytime you drive it, get you noticed, has some style, causes your neighbours to be jealous while at the same time giving you decent reliability, get a BMW!
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Old 07-03-2007, 12:03 AM   #41
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My E36 M is the BEST car I have ever owned.
It handles amazingly well and outperforms so many that try to hang with me on fwy sweepers.
Literally, no contest.
For a 12-13 yr old car running against others that are barely 1 or 2 yrs old, that's saying something.
I went against my friends SL55 yesterday and surprised the crap out of myself at how I was able to run with him.
Of course, he left me behind with an engine having almost twice the displacement, but he didn't stomp me as badly as I expected.

Now, I do all my own maintenance and mods so I keep up with it.
I have never had a problem that left me stranded in this car.

Prior to my first bimmer 9 years ago, I had 3 hondas(Prelude, HB, and Integra GSR ), 1 toyota (Celica), and a 72 Mustang not in that order.
None of them was as fun to drive as the M.
Reliable, yes, but boring...holy cow.
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Old 07-03-2007, 05:48 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Hey guys,
Are you kidding me, GM has better reliability then BMW? ahahaha ya right!

Actually my dad still owns a 1986 GM car that is called an Opel Ascona Gt, that he bought new. Its only a 1.6 cylinder on carb.
It has 950.000 km on the clock on the same engine and burns minimal oil. Has never broke down and he only replaced the clutch at 380.000km because he thought it would be a wise move. Since then we have only replaced two wheel bearings. One drive shaft, retrimmed the seats and resprayed the car( too many scratches but no rust). I am not including discs and pads and suspension as these are normal wear and tear items.
And it had a pretty rough life too considering i and my brother went through it and both of us drove the crap of it ( imagine boy racers but at a place with no cops and you re almost there).
So although i find BMW very reliable i think GM is pretty much up there in reliability issues.
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Old 07-03-2007, 07:12 AM   #43
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id say that the winter (snow/salt) has a huge effect on reliability.
that shit just eats away @ parts until they fail.

you wouldnt believe how many cars from the 70's, and 80's are on the road still in Florida. And im not talking about restored classics. Im talking about old POS that arent even showing rust and still driving on the road.
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Old 07-03-2007, 07:51 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL
I'll agree with you on the older models - I hear much less issue with those - but unfortunately I like newer cars... My dumb luck for getting a lemon - which by the way, I don't think it was - The tranny issue has been well documented here by many other owners as well as several freinds that I have who had these cars.
I can't argue about the newer car issues, I can only go by the awards (which indicate what I expect - mechanical genius and piss-poor electronic design). But the bottom line is you are up in arms based on anecdotal evidence. For every guy that loves his Honda, there are ten guys with a Found On Road Dead or a GM that has gone a million miles on oil changes and maybe a new alternator. You think that BMW (GM in reality) can't build transmissions, while an owner of a 99-02 Odyssey may think that Honda can't. Labelling either brand as piss poor based on that, makes about as much sense as going on a forum dedicated to it, not owning one and a moniker underlining the fact, and telling its owners that they are idiots in denial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL
On the engineers point - I was simply trying to indicate the slippery slope you tread when you tell us to selectively not listen to the advice of the manufacturer on one item, but hard and fast on another. Check yourself before you check others.
Whatever, you were just trying to invalidate my point with a false dilemma. I didn't say to ignore the advice of the manufacturer, simply to do more than they suggest. My advice was in no way equivalent to putting regular into a premium only car, rather more like putting premium into a car the manufacturer states needs regular. I didn't say don't change the oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL
And as for the list - bravo to you. I didn't waste my time reading everything about the awards, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they do not take into consideration long term reliability. All I know is my experience - Jap has been good to me. Does that mean I won't own another German? Maybe, maybe not - but it will definitely cause me to think long and hard, especially if that German is BMW.
I'm sure they don't either, because they can't. How can you compare the longevity of a 3.2 M3 motor to a Civic or some hybrid motor? The normal operating modes for those motors is very different. To me, it's a miracle that the ///M motors last as long as they do. In race trim, they are rebuilt every year if not more often. It has nothing to do with design but the nature of materials and the strain they are asked to take. My E30 eta engine which redlines at 5500, ran at 400k the same way they run 200k kms ago, and would probably run just as well 200k from now, had I not ripped it out last week. But even with proper care, there's no way a properly used (abused?) ///M engine is going to be mint at that mileage, simply due to the strain.

This is why my track car is an E30 with an S52 going in, and my daily is a Toyota 4Runner V8. They are two VERY different machines and I couldn't be happier with either for the purpose I want them for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL
As for leaving to forum - why? Getting folks like you riled up is amusing at times!

Now who needs to calm down?

Deep
That's brilliant.

And my breakfast isn't done cooking yet and my coffee cup is still full, I ain't calming nowhere.
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