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Old 08-15-2013, 12:49 PM   #1
kamus
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E30 Suspension for Track

Can you folks educate me on suspension choices for E30 track use? Assume that I'm all stock for now except for Toyo R888's. Links to old threads much appreciated!

I attend 7 or 8 Driving Schools per year at Mosport. I'm in the advanced group, but a couple E30's and one pesky 2002 (you know who you are) always get by me! Car is super fast but leaning a LOT thru all turns, and the rear bounces a LOT through turn 3.

I looked through all the options that Turner Motorsport offers for springs, shocks and packages. Which of those would you consider, and what are the other alternatives I should look at?

Cheers!

PS - x-posting to E30 Tech
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:10 PM   #2
BmW1819
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Hey kam its nigel on my e30 i have irleand engerneering stage 3 race springs with bilsteins sports great setup but i find alot of guys going with coil over and adjustable stocks depends on how much u wanna spend
And sway bars make a huge difference
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:41 PM   #3
richie_s999
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I'm planning on getting the turner J stock setup, from what I have read and talked to people seems like the best fixed suspension for the track
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:51 PM   #4
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I have Koni yellows on my car and its tight even at full soft. I catch you in the turns and I think thats the only advantage I have over your car. Koni yellows are a good choice.
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Old 08-15-2013, 09:13 PM   #5
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:30 AM   #6
cheapthrills
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Turn your car into a SpecE30 so we can have a 2-man class!

The SpecE30 suspension is not perfect, but I like that you worry lots less about how your car is set up and more about how you drive. It is:
H&R Race springs
Bilstein sport dampers
Thicker sway bars (numerous companies, same bar sizes)
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Old 08-16-2013, 07:45 AM   #7
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Speak to Jay about some BC racing coils with stiffer rates.
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:01 AM   #8
Bullet Ride
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First of all, what is your budget?
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Old 08-16-2013, 08:31 PM   #9
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First of all, what is your budget?
Yea thats the main thing lol
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:42 AM   #10
kamus
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Wow - thanks for all the responses guys. I'll try to address all the points. Many of you have prompted me to read further, so I have added more specific follow-up questions below.

Lap Times
If it helps anyone assess my skill level, for reference my best lap times at Mosport are at the 1:52 mark. 9 out of 10 laps I can do a consistent 1:54 to 1:55 traffic permitting. Once out of a 15 lap session last week I hit 1:52. Note that I hardly ever banzai all the way up the back straight. The norm for me is to start lifting as I approach the bridge after turn 7 - so I arrive at turn 8 around 160 to 170km/h and barely need a stab of the brakes. Flat out over the hill brings the car to 8 at around 185 to 190 (It's hard to look down at the speedo on the approach to 8!)
Adjustables
So I don't think I'm at the right stage for adjustable stuff. Would not even know what was the correct adjustment for myself. I donít think I can adjust the settings better than a tried and tested set-up such as SpecE30 or other forms of club racing. But tell me more - how easy is it to switch from track to street settings? Does it take as long as changing wheels?
JStock vs street use
The Jstock setup from Turner sounds very tempting. But I do still like to drive my car on the street during summer Ö so probably not ideal for me. But close. For example I hate the nibbling sensation of driving r-compound tires on the street. You have to constantly apply steering inputs to keep the car straight! I love the feeling of comfort that returns when I put the street tires back on just before leaving the track. It's not my only street car, but on a nice summer day, when I don't have to go into the city, it's the street car I almost always choose.
H&R Race plus Billstein Sport
So I'm leaning toward the Spec E30 settings - but probably no sway bar changes right away. H&R Race springs and Bilstein Sports.
I'd love to hear some discussion on the following bits though:

Question 1
Rear Subframe Bushings: Race or Stock? Does anyone have experience of changing to the $400 Group N bushings here: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-36...-e30-pair.aspx
Question 2
The Diff Mount Bushing - should I replace with stock or the "Delrin" near-solid stuff discussed here: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-10...-race-e30.aspx
Question 3
My mechanic has discussed moving the battery forward from its stock location. Ireland Engineering used to offer a rear strut brace with in integrated battery box. Has anyone seen anything like this offered anywhere?
Final thoughts on budget
As for budget, since I'm still learning about what the candidate solutions are, I can't really fix the budget because in doing so I might end up not considering good solutions. So - without meaning to sound douchey - let's worry about the budget after we figure out the "best" solution for me in my driving situation.
Rudy - thanks for the email - response sent.
Trev - Thanks, I'll ping Jay.

Thanks again all!
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Old 08-18-2013, 11:01 AM   #11
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Check out condor speed shop for bushings, I have their motor and trans mounts with no noticeable drill line vibration, I'll be getting all their suspension bushings this winter.

They also have the subframe relocating ones that help suspension geometry with lowering the car

The J stock is a progress rate, but ya still maybe stiff for street driving, I don't have to worry about that though with trailering my car.

http://www.condorspeedshop.com/colle...mponent-combos

Just checked, diff, trailing arms, and subframe combo price $265!

Last edited by richie_s999; 08-18-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 08-19-2013, 08:39 AM   #12
cheapthrills
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Adjustments
When I get to the track, I swap on my R-Comps, loosen the 3 strut mount bolts, and push my camber plates from all the way out to all the way in. Very quick. If I leave the camber negative, the car is a bit pointy on the street. If I leave the camber out, the R-comps will skip and chatter through the corners.

Rear subframe
When I first installed my suspension, I went for new stock rear subframe bushings. They began squeaking after only a few track days, and kept getting worse. I highly recommend getting polyurethane units for the rear subframe as well as differential. I noticed no extra noise or vibration, and it makes the rear feel better planted and less wiggly. I have AKG for these.

When you lower the rear end, replace the trailing arm bushings with adjustable units. You definitely want to be able to straighten out your toe. Otherwise the car can be very tail happy. There are numerous options for this, some better than others.

I'm downtown if you'd like to go for a ride to see how it is on the street.
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Old 08-19-2013, 09:03 AM   #13
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Give Ground Control a call and you will have a suspension package sorted out in no time. They are experts and several of them race E30s. What you need is their coilover conversion with SA Konis. Don't let the adjustability scare you, there is no downside. Also get a good front bar (ireland) and lose the rear one. With their help, you'll get spring rates that will give you great control on track and good ride on the street.

One big reason to go coilover is when I was trying various progressive springs and I never found a setup which gave the car good balance. It always ended up with the ass up in the air and had waaay too much forward weight transfer. With coilovers you can balance it - and I don't even mean corner balancing with scales but just visually setting the car flat.
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Old 08-19-2013, 03:27 PM   #14
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AST 4200 for the man with deep pockets.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:16 AM   #15
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At that price, forget the Grouppe N subframe mounts. A decent poly setup seems it will fit all of your needs. I got the Revshift camber correction bushes for my car, they pull the subframe up toward the body to counter act a bit of the camber inducing effects of lowering the car.

Race springs are fine, but when I replaced mine with German Engineering coilover sleeves I noticed an improvement in ride quality with a stiffer spring and the ability to go lower (My car is mostly street) as well as improved handling. Around the same time as teh coilovers I also added new bushings, control arms, strut mounted sway bar endlinks (E30M3 suspension) as well so may not be a fair or direct comparison as far as the springs go.

Personally I think Delrin is overkill for most things on a car that's going to be driven on the street. A good poly part is what I prefer. That being said, I do have the Condor Speedshop delrin front control arm bushings.
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