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Old 01-10-2010, 06:37 PM   #1
old skoo
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twinscrew set-ups/kits

hey f/i guys im looking to supercharge my s50 M . and i want to do a twinscrew set-up because im not a big fan of all the pipping that goes along with turbo systems.so i was wondering if anyone knows any twinscrew kits/system , or if any ones selling 1 .
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:55 PM   #2
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Check bimmerforums, there was a guy selling one about a week ago (1.7L twinscrew kit from eurosport) Also, eurosport just released their new twinscrew kit and bumped the blower up to 2.2 or 2.3L i think? but the price is pretty high. It's like $11, 500. I'm looking to twinscrew my s52 too... but it does seem a bit pricey. AA still has the gen 1 twinscrew from eurosport and that's a little cheaper @ around $9500.
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:52 PM   #3
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I installed a Eurosport kit a few years ago, its a well built kit and makes good HP!


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Old 01-10-2010, 11:17 PM   #4
old skoo
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yea i was looking into that and wow ! thats pricey , i can buy a car for that price lol

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Originally Posted by Steve30 View Post
Check bimmerforums, there was a guy selling one about a week ago (1.7L twinscrew kit from eurosport) Also, eurosport just released their new twinscrew kit and bumped the blower up to 2.2 or 2.3L i think? but the price is pretty high. It's like $11, 500. I'm looking to twinscrew my s52 too... but it does seem a bit pricey. AA still has the gen 1 twinscrew from eurosport and that's a little cheaper @ around $9500.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:37 PM   #5
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Have you looked at any centrifugal charger kits? They are a lot cheaper than the twin screw setup and still make good power.
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Old 01-11-2010, 04:12 AM   #6
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What's wrong the piping, really though? No or little piping just means you probably don't have an intercooler. If you do, its water to air and that's a whole lotta additional piping.

I wouldn't let piping be an issue. It's not as bad as you think to route that stuff around and very easy to work with. I'd be looking at the power goals, what you'll be using the power for and how the car is used.

Centrifugal kits tend to 'build boost' the same way a turbo does, since the effective ratio is so high. Roots style are positive displacement, and they really help with torque down low but are inefficient at high revs, meaning they create a lot of heat in the air, possibly bringing down top end power considerably.
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Old 01-11-2010, 05:07 PM   #7
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well its beacuse i like it clean n simple

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What's wrong the piping, really though? No or little piping just means you probably don't have an intercooler. If you do, its water to air and that's a whole lotta additional piping.

I wouldn't let piping be an issue. It's not as bad as you think to route that stuff around and very easy to work with. I'd be looking at the power goals, what you'll be using the power for and how the car is used.

Centrifugal kits tend to 'build boost' the same way a turbo does, since the effective ratio is so high. Roots style are positive displacement, and they really help with torque down low but are inefficient at high revs, meaning they create a lot of heat in the air, possibly bringing down top end power considerably.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:18 AM   #8
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I know of a guy who did one here, but I think his motor popped, twice to add...I beleive hes on the board, and he was looking to sell it last time he came by.

Although I been in his car - it wasnt as impressive as:

S52 turbo (had TT Stage 2, but been in a GT35R setup not TT but dammn its fast!)
S52 W/ T-trim vortech (my current project)

The most impressive is the NEW HKS based S/C kit from AA...we just finished a Level 2 on an MZ3 and it is the best of both worlds (power of a turbo, drivability of an S/C setup). I am actually posting up pic now.

AA's twin screw isnt offered anymore.
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Last edited by Jon@Bimmersport; 01-11-2010 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon@Bimmersport View Post
The most impressive is the NEW HKS based S/C kit from AA...we just finished a Level 2 on an MZ3 and it is the best of both worlds (power of a turbo, drivability of an S/C setup)
Sorry Jon, I have to correct you. The new HKS set up is not an improvement in the illusive "best of both worlds" search. It is very, very similar to the outgoing Rotrex set up and should be known to put out very, very similar performance. I mean, you've installed both so I'm kind of confused on why you think this, no offense!

That said, the kit seems to be top notch!

OP: An aftercooled centrifugal supercharger set up will be just as complex as a turbo set up. A twin screw set up *should* be simpler (I haven't owned one).

Last edited by black bnr32; 01-23-2010 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:29 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by black bnr32 View Post
Sorry Jon, I have to correct you. The new HKS set up is not an improvement in the illusive "best of both worlds" search. It is very, very similar to the outgoing Rotrex set up and should be known to put out very, very similar performance. I mean, you've installed both so I'm kind of confused on why you think this, no offense!

That said, the kit seems to be top notch!

OP: An aftercooled centrifugal supercharger set up will be just as complex as a turbo set up. A twin screw set up *should* be simpler (I haven't owned one).
No offense taken,

Your conclusion is based off of what information I have to ask...? They are known to put out similar peak #'s in kit form, driving wise the HKS is known for more low-midrange power which will carry up top. That is how I got to my answer, although the flow charts seem the same...when going to a stage 2 unit the HKS based car will outperform the rotrex. I havent tested back to back on the track (or driven any on the track for that matter), but this is comming from the engineer at Active. For a street car, the HKS will be a much better choice. Remember, 90% of the people buying these products daily drive their car...given my statement, what would you choose? Either choice does not make one or the other right or wrong as this whole FI world comes down to personal preference. One thing you are forgetting is beyond what is offered now as a kit and can be attained in the future. I am on the fence about throwing away my vortech based kits I have...as I can spin the HKS double the speed of the vortech I use.

Sthomas,

I never questioned the possibility of running without said items but why? The only other one I know running a heavier setup than yourself would be Tommy, and was running a non vanos setup (then again the rods are huge compared to M3 and can handle more stress over a longer time). I would run the oil cooler on any FI setup, for the same reasons BMW incorporated it into any factory NA car made for performance driving - not for liability, but for long term durability. Again, there is no argument as to what should be done. Then again, with your engine setup you are increasing your engine output by ~50%...opposed to my statement based on almost 100% increase in power.
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Last edited by Jon@Bimmersport; 01-25-2010 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:57 PM   #11
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One thing in regards to oil cooling which does a lot more harm than good I notice on street-driven S/C e36s is nobody uses an oil cooler thermostat which is vital since the oil will take a really long time to warm up to properly lubricate and may cool down too much while doing highway driving again making the oil loose its ability to properly lubricate. The S54 oil filter housing has a built-in one for a reason.

Without the thermostat most guys with primarily street-driven cars are better off without the cooler.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
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One thing in regards to oil cooling which does a lot more harm than good I notice on street-driven S/C e36s is nobody uses an oil cooler thermostat which is vital since the oil will take a really long time to warm up to properly lubricate and may cool down too much while doing highway driving again making the oil loose its ability to properly lubricate. The S54 oil filter housing has a built-in one for a reason.

Without the thermostat most guys with primarily street-driven cars are better off without the cooler.
Where can i get a oil cooler thermostat and is it hard to install?
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Old 01-26-2010, 01:43 PM   #13
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No offense taken,

Your conclusion is based off of what information I have to ask...?
Just Mad dog 20/20's thread on bimmerforums.
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Old 01-26-2010, 01:45 PM   #14
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I am on the fence about throwing away my vortech based kits I have...as I can spin the HKS double the speed of the vortech I use.
Looks like the HKS is limited to ~ 15psi IIRC.

Edit: not totally apples to apples given the mods, but here's Mad dog's HKS vs the AA Rotrex dyno graphs. The lower half of the dynos are really similar, no?
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...305271&page=13

also,
C38-81:
90k rpm max impeller speed
952.5 CFM max flow
1:7.5 drive unit ratio

HKS GTS8550:
100k rpm max impeller speed
918 CFM max flow
1:9.4 drive unit ratio

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Old 01-26-2010, 02:04 PM   #15
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If you are refering to page 13, the dyno graph is of v1 tune and v2 for his HKS kit. Mad dog didnt install both kits for a back to back comparison. One of the reasons for his top end hiccup was his plugs.



Also if you read the thread, many people agree to the conclusion that the HKS does produce more midrange...including the OP your qouting. Which is why AA chose this kit, to give an option to those who do want more low/midrange power compared to traditional centri based kits.

The C38 you listed is for E46 M3 FYI..E36 kits use C3871, now the only one using C38-81 is the 330 based kits.
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