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-   -   Mustang Injector mod to M20? (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26159)

Jon@Bimmersport 12-24-2003 06:02 AM

Mustang Injector mod to M20?
 
I heard adding the Mustang 5.0 injectors give a really nice power gain on the M20s..i also have a mark D chip which i will get re-tuned..if i do this mod, what else do i need for it to work? will i need a bigger AFM?

89325i 12-24-2003 06:39 AM

I don't know if i would say its a big power adder, but the stock ones are stressed, and can actually run a tad lean in high rpm's. You don't have to do the AFM upgrade, but its a pretty easy thing to do so why not. If you don't have the injectors yet you can buy mustang injectors for the the M20's from fiveomotorsport.com

Mystikal 12-24-2003 02:10 PM

Oh god don't just throw them in. You'll lose quite a bit of power. Once you put them in, you need to properly tune them, which will require more parts and work. Not worth it to me.

Jon@Bimmersport 12-24-2003 02:19 PM

i c..so even if i tune them..im only gaining 5hp at MOST.?

Mystikal 12-24-2003 02:23 PM

That's exactly right Jon, you do need either FI or an M50 to make a 325i faster. Wow, I didn't even need to tell you.

Jon@Bimmersport 12-24-2003 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mystikal
That's exactly right Jon, you do need either FI or an M50 to make a 325i faster. Wow, I didn't even need to tell you.
dude, no matter wat time i post...u always come back with help, you should get paid for maxbimmer 24/7 advice or somethin lol

What about..M52 ;)

Mystikal 12-24-2003 02:27 PM

LMAO. I've been posting for 4 months and I'm 6th Gear. Not a good sign.

M52 are best from the Z3 2.8, aluminum block. *th-up*

jimmyd1 12-24-2003 10:26 PM

Actually, I run 19lb. injectors from an e34 535i and the afm from an e34 535i. Provided I have a bunch of other performance mods that compliment these, they both work great. You will probably need a rrfpr, and will have to tune the larger afm, but the hp and torque increase with the car tuned @ 4-4.5 bar is approximately 7 to 10 hp and ft lbs. of torque. Was an excellent upgrade that ran me about a total of $375 US dollars.

"Lightened flywheel and centerforce clutch assembly on the way"
Pro-M Maf to come."

jimmyd1 12-24-2003 10:32 PM

Results from Dave Adam's Dyno run w/ these mods @ 4 bar are approximately 7 hp gained @ the wheels and 5 ft lbs of torque gained @ the wheels. For $375 I would say it was well worth it, considering the cost of other mods.

Mystikal 12-24-2003 10:35 PM

I dunno man, $375US plus the A/F gauge that you would need, plus dyno time?

I'd rather put it in the M50 fund. But hey, I'm just logical.

Jon@Bimmersport 12-24-2003 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mystikal
I dunno man, $375US plus the A/F gauge that you would need, plus dyno time?

I'd rather put it in the M50 fund. But hey, I'm just logical.

I agree..not only will u get more power and potential...but also a more reliable engine.

Jay, lets do an M50 group buy or somethin :D

Mystikal 12-24-2003 10:44 PM

Not for a while for me. My upcoming killer suspension setup is gonna make quite a dent in the Visa. :D

jimmyd1 12-24-2003 11:01 PM

No you're just arrogant. I don't run one (an a/f guage), I know my car runs a lot richer than the prescribed stoychiometric ratio number of 14.7 lbs of air to 1 lb of fuel. My car probably runs in the neighborhood of 13.2 lbs of air to 1 lb of fuel. I will say this though, the car is responsive from 2200 rpms through the entire powerband. I have raced an e36 m50 that had a chip, and beat em, raced an e46 325i stock and beat em, raced an e46 330i and was able to keep up with em. The m20b25 motor is a keeper for me. It is easy to work on and fairly simple to modify, as long as you stay n/a. The chassis is also a lot lighter than an e36. As far as doing the conversion to an e36 motor, it is too time consuming for me. Yes you can bolt on a lot of horse power, but it can be very expensive. Also, it will probably add 200-250 lbs to the front end of your car. To me it would be a lot more feasible to acquire an evo 3.2 liter crank and build a high performance or supercharged m20. I may not get 300hp @ the wheels, but do I really need it? No, the car is my daily driver/weekend car.

Jon@Bimmersport 12-24-2003 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
No you're just arrogant. I don't run one (an a/f guage), I know my car runs a lot richer than the prescribed stoychiometric ratio number of 14.7 lbs of air to 1 lb of fuel. My car probably runs in the neighborhood of 13.2 lbs of air to 1 lb of fuel. I will say this though, the car is responsive from 2200 rpms through the entire powerband. I have raced an e36 m50 that had a chip, and beat em, raced an e46 325i stock and beat em, raced an e46 330i and was able to keep up with em. The m20b25 motor is a keeper for me. It is easy to work on and fairly simple to modify, as long as you stay n/a. The chassis is also a lot lighter than an e36. As far as doing the conversion to an e36 motor, it is too time consuming for me. Yes you can bolt on a lot of horse power, but it can be very expensive. Also, it will probably add 200-250 lbs to the front end of your car. To me it would be a lot more feasible to acquire an evo 3.2 liter crank and build a high performance or supercharged m20. I may not get 300hp @ the wheels, but do I really need it? No, the car is my daily driver/weekend car.
mines gonna be daily summer car too :D ...M50 mods are roughly the same price as M20..a chip will cost in the range of 300 custom tuned, and from then on..i plan on doin no modding because i want FI. I dont think the M50 motor weighs 200-250lbs more..does it?

Mystikal 12-24-2003 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
No you're just arrogant.
I know, thank you.

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
I don't run one (an a/f guage), I know my car runs a lot richer than the prescribed stoychiometric ratio number of 14.7 lbs of air to 1 lb of fuel. My car probably runs in the neighborhood of 13.2 lbs of air to 1 lb of fuel.
So you are aware of your poor tuning without a gauge and you are satisfied with it? Gotcha.

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
I will say this though, the car is responsive from 2200 rpms through the entire powerband. I have raced an e36 m50 that had a chip, and beat em, raced an e46 325i stock and beat em, raced an e46 330i and was able to keep up with em.
Means nothing. It's all a driver's race. Show me some dyno numbers. I was just keeping up with a 328is on the highway, but I'm not going to say anything about making nearly as much power.

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
The m20b25 motor is a keeper for me. It is easy to work on and fairly simple to modify, as long as you stay n/a.
Yes, very easy to work on. I love that fact. Simple to modify, but not very effective. Although FI seems complicated, it really isn't. And it's the only way you're going to crack 200hp with an M20 design.

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
The chassis is also a lot lighter than an e36.
I thought we were talking about engines.

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
As far as doing the conversion to an e36 motor, it is too time consuming for me. Yes you can bolt on a lot of horse power, but it can be very expensive.
I like to do things once, and do them right. If I know there isn't much headroom for tuning with the M20, then I'm not going to waste any time on it. The 12-valve design and ancient engine management are going to hold you back. If you add up everything on your car you could probably have a much more reliable and more importantly, lower mileage M50 under your hood. Fresh start, whole new level of tuning.

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
Also, it will probably add 200-250 lbs to the front end of your car.
It is 19kg heavier. That is 41.8lbs.

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
To me it would be a lot more feasible to acquire an evo 3.2 liter crank and build a high performance or supercharged m20.
I had no idea an S52 crank could mate to an M20 engine. But hey, we all learn new things. :huh?:

Quote:

Originally posted by jimmyd1
I may not get 300hp @ the wheels, but do I really need it? No, the car is my daily driver/weekend car.
300 at the wheels? Nah, I just wanted a 200hp crank daily driven inline-6, with lots of torque and solid reliability. The M50 will provide that and more.

/me hangs up the mic.


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