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-   -   Thinking of coming back to German - Porsche or BMW? (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145883)

Deep 3.2TL 09-22-2011 01:59 AM

Thinking of coming back to German - Porsche or BMW?
 
Gents,

Many of you know of my horrible experience with a first model year of the E46's. I won't be making that same mistake.

I'm looking for a summer toy - I've narrowed it down to either a 2008ish Z4 or a 2007 Porsche Boxster (S or non-S, doesn't bother me).

The question is - theres alot of fear mongering about the IMS on the Porsche causing catastrophic failures of the engine. I don't think it's as bad as the Internet reads, but who knows.

I wanted to find out from Z4 owners what the common issues are with them and if there was anything to watch for.

I will be going manual tranny this time around.

Any insight is appreciated. I know there are Porsche aficionados here as well - any insight into the Porsche would be appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Deep

JJJames 09-22-2011 02:27 PM

Congrats on returning from the dark side. I can't speak to the merits of the Z4, but have experience with the Boxster and Porsche's generally.

Back in the day, our garage contained an E36 M3, and a Boxter S. Both different, (to be honest I preferred the M3 as an all rounder), but for a fun summer car, the Boxster is much sharper and more responsive (though no faster). The mid-engined layout meant extraordinary balance, and the engine loves to rev. More importantly, the Porsche was bulletproof - through 5 years and about 75000 kms, there was not one issue - regular services and tires - that's it - and its not as though it wasn't being driven hard (two kids actually learned to drive stick on that car, so the clutch endured a lot).

Currently the cars have been upgraded to an E46 M3 (ZHP) and a 911 Turbo, and again, the Porsche has not presented a single issue (despite a few track days) beyond regular service and tires (though its only run about 70 000 kms). Porsche builds cars to last, and more than that, are built to be thrashed, regularly, and soldier on. (Just make sure you don't miss a service - then all bets are off).

Either choice would be fine I'm sure, but if it were my money, I'd be heading straight to Porsche.

Hope this helps.


Edit: none of the above comments apply to the Cayenne - step mother had one a few years back and other than the Mercedes ML, it was the worst car I've ever come across.

Deep 3.2TL 09-22-2011 02:41 PM

Hrrm Interesting.

There's seems to be alot of chatter on the boards and what not of RMS (Rear Main Seal) and IMS (Intermediate Shaft) failured, the later being catastrophic if it happens. The 996 with the M96 engine suffered from this as well as the 986. When they moved to the 987, it was said to be fixed, but there are still some reports of it happening.

What opinion, if any, do you have on what is being talked about out there?

If you google 996 porsche problems, you will see the threads I'm talking about. You can also google 986 porsche problems and similar will show.

Thanks for your response!

MrRWD 09-23-2011 08:32 AM

I was in the same boat, and got a 996 Porsche 911 4S - One owner car from Paff Porsche.

Apart from the Rear Main Seal problem, then have a bearing problem as well.
It's a design flaw, which causes the engine to go boom... without notice. The older Porsche's are better in this regard, except for the crazy amount of oil leaks. The bearing design flaw, should have been a recall.

They also eat clutches. When you do a clutch job, they recommend to change the fly wheel as well. $4K or so for the job. Been there, done that....

You'll see a lot of 911's with New Engines under warranty, when you are looking (if disclosed). This is probably because of the bearing problem or the rear main seal.

I actually witnessed a newer 996 let got its magic smoke. Older gentlemen driving, so probably one owner and driven carefully.

... pretty disappointing.

Sent mine through the Auction.

I hate to say it, but a BMW Z4 is probably a better choice. More reliable....at least more manageable repair bills. My Cats on the 911 went, both of them... $3K... lucky to find a used ones (fairly new) for $1200.00

MrRWD 09-23-2011 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJJames (Post 1525001)
Porsche builds cars to last, and more than that, are built to be thrashed, regularly, and soldier on. (Just make sure you don't miss a service - then all bets are off).

Either choice would be fine I'm sure, but if it were my money, I'd be heading straight to Porsche.

Oh boy... I just read that the 997's are having engine problems as well.
It's quite known that the 996's have engine failures. If you're getting a used one, I'd say you'd almost want one that had it's engine replaced under warranty....

A owner of a car dealership I was talking to.. about my issues... he's had many porsche's. Currently has 3. The 911 Turbo, he's had since new. The 911 Targa, and the 4S, costs him a lot more money, once they reach 90K or so...

Warned me... not everyone has $8-10K every year to spend on stupid repairs.... he doesn't care... but be warned he said.....

Still loves the car.... but... they are not cheap to maintain when things go wrong.

jeremy 09-23-2011 08:39 AM

Out of the two you listed Deep, I would pick the M clown shoe :D

Coupedup 09-23-2011 10:06 AM

I have almost bought the boxster on several occasions and have read extensively on the IMS issues.... from what I understand the majority of the IMS issues are on the pre- 2003 cars....

Even back in 2003 Porsche refused to admit there were problems and customers replaced their engines and encountered the same issues with rear main seals..... engine after engine after engine. I believe each one is approx $6K with zero help from Porsche. This is one of the reasons you see Boxsters with LS1 swaps....

Another thing to think about is that as the car is mid-engined its a bitch to service so you'll be paying bigtime for the novelty. If you do pull the trigger I reccomend HUNTER MOTORSPORTS (near sherway) as a possible indy shop of choice...

MrRWD 09-23-2011 10:51 AM

It does extend well past the 2003 models... even the new 997's have the issue.

If the RMS goes, you've probably have a bigger problem with the engine. The bearings (design flaw) are going, causing the crank to make the seal more "oval".

Since I had the RMS done at the first sign of oil leak, I assume the motor would eventually go pop.....

The Turbo cars are much better. They are based on the old air-cooled motors, and don't seem to have this problem.

I'd never want to own a Turbo car, but in this case, a Porsche 911 Turbo would have been a better choice.

Deep 3.2TL 09-23-2011 12:00 PM

Yes, the Turbo's have a different engine, they've been more reliable.

The IMS (intermediate shaft) is what evetually gives you the "shaft" and pooches your engine.

I think I've decided to go clown shoe on this one... Jeremy - I'd LOVE to go M - I test drove a 2007 Z4M with 17k KM's on it a couple of days ago - loved it, but this price was too much - $44K. I'm trying to stay $25K range, which my brother in law (owns a used car dealership) says is doable for a 2007 Z4 with 50-75k KM's.

He's going to see over the winter if anything comes up at auction, as it may go cheaper during that time.

Apparently not alot of manual's out there. Plus my desire is to get Alpine White with the Imola Red interior - HAWT!!! Don't know if we'll find one like that...

Fingers crossed that I'll be driving roofless next summer!

Any Z4 owners know of any common problems?

Deep 3.2TL 09-25-2011 11:41 PM

No one with Z4 have any comments??

ChrisTO 09-26-2011 09:33 AM

chick car... :P

Blades 09-26-2011 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL (Post 1525591)
No one with Z4 have any comments??

Another thing to add which I havent noticed anyone else put in here about the boxer is that for any little work you need to drop the engine to work on it because of where its located (Mid sitting engine) and the amount of space.

I think someone told me that you need to drop the engine just to change the oil filter but I could be wrong.


As for the Z4 I haven't heard any complaints .. But not many people own them on here .. hence why I never really see them at bimmercruise

Deep 3.2TL 09-26-2011 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisTO (Post 1525633)
chick car... :P



Real constructive Chris *shiner*

So what would you suggest for a TRUE summer style car in this mid $20K price range?

I don't want a 3 series or something that is not truely a roadster style of car.

Deep 3.2TL 09-26-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blades (Post 1525648)
Another thing to add which I havent noticed anyone else put in here about the boxer is that for any little work you need to drop the engine to work on it because of where its located (Mid sitting engine) and the amount of space.

I think someone told me that you need to drop the engine just to change the oil filter but I could be wrong.


As for the Z4 I haven't heard any complaints .. But not many people own them on here .. hence why I never really see them at bimmercruise

Yup - My brother in law was telling me that too - so one of the reasons why I will most likely (unless some CRAZY deal comes my way) stay away from the Porsche.

I too haven't been seeing much negative comments about the Z4 except for the convertible motor and the power steering (alot of BMW's have that issue). Apart from that, it's been fairly solid it looks like.

ChrisTO 09-27-2011 12:00 AM

oh...constructive. *smoke*

yes maintenance on the boxster is not cheap. be prepared for deep pockets or know someone that is willing to work on it for you. i believe the oil filter is up on top...at least the 2010 model is. many things do require an engine drop.

i think the boxster is a far better drive than the z4...it just feels more alive or visceral...but there is that pesky cost to maintain.

there is the TT...it's very different.

find out cost to maintain the boxster...i'd go with that one instead of the z4 unless you can get the MZ4 but probably not in the price range you are looking for.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deep 3.2TL (Post 1525652)
Real constructive Chris *shiner*

So what would you suggest for a TRUE summer style car in this mid $20K price range?

I don't want a 3 series or something that is not truely a roadster style of car.



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