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-   -   AWD for BMWs M Range (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141996)

Bullet Ride 04-11-2011 08:13 AM

AWD for BMWs M Range
 
BMW is well known for their rear wheel drive cars as well as for their M division. The next generation M5 sedan might be equipped with AWD (All Wheel Drive) which will represent a first for the model.

At this moment, there are two M badged models that use all-wheel drive systems, the X5 M and the X6 M, but otherwise the M division is rear-wheel drive friendly. The German automaker is looking to expand its M cars on the U.S. market and, as a consequence, the new M5 will most definitely have an AWD system available as an option.

Albert Biermann, BMW Ms head of R&D, stated: There will be some all-wheel-drive surprises on M cars in the future. There werent any release dates confirmed for the launch of an M5 AWD sedan, but we know that the production rear-wheel drive M5 version will be on display at the Frankfurt Motor Show later this year.

The AWD system will undoubtedly add more kilos to the total weight of the car, but 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) acceleration should remain under the 5 seconds barrier.

source: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/aw...nge-34022.html

MBrown 04-15-2011 09:56 AM

wow, built for life in Canada?

i kid, i kid :rolleyes:

Mpellizze30 04-25-2011 10:04 AM

somethings gota compete with that rs6 glad to hear this!

Mpellizze30 04-25-2011 10:06 AM

twin turbo v10 would be awsome too

dble Trouble 05-03-2011 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpellizze30 (Post 1496969)
somethings gota compete with that rs6 glad to hear this!

In what way other than acceleration on a slippery surface does a rwd not only compete but obliterate an awd??? I'd like to know.

Mpellizze30 05-03-2011 11:40 PM

heres how the current m5 does against the rs6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpaVTdqsPLk
and have u ever herd of the bugatti veyron, the fastest car in the world? its awd, i love my e30 but awd doesnt spin it sticks, it doesnt go sideways in corners and you have more traction in every situation u could possibly think of. i live in canada where awd is key for a year round yuppie car, my old man has had m6's m5's 540's 740's m3's and the best everyday car he has every bought as much as it hurts to say is the s6 he just got before the winter, he has the m3 for fun in the summer but that s6 rocks as a year round cruiser and in our last trip out east around xmas it was unbelieveable. Im sure the 740 he used to have would have been ok but there nothing like that awd confidence.
If your talking track car id prefer rwd personally but its hard to argue when u see the bugatti go up against the zonda.

dble Trouble 05-03-2011 11:50 PM

I think you need to stop watching youtube videos and go to a performance driving school to learn about vehicle dynamics. Friction, grip, handling, etc. Acceleration is one thing, on slick surfaces. But on dry surfaces, like for like an awd will get smoked by it's rwd counterpart. Look at the 911 turbo and the 911 GT2 for example. Or BMW 328 awd to rwd. The video you posted shows an RS6 with 80 more hp and over 100 ft/lbs of torque advantage over the M5, very similar weight, yet only beat it by a couple of car lengths. Thank-you very much for that useless video.

Now though take those same two cars around a turn, or braking??? Exactly. You have to stop getting swayed by all of the mktg types that are telling you awd is better for you etc. 1 advantage and ONLY advantage is slick accelerating. That's it. Everything else is better as awd. Why do you think all of the best super performance cars are rwd??? And you mention the Veyron, don't make me laugh, that car is notoriously known for ill handling and braking. It is a one trick pony and that's top speed. Even acceleration it gets smoked by most super cars to 150mph, only after that does it start to show its 1000 hp. But around a road course it got beat by Mclaren F1, Enzo, 911 GT2, Corvette ZR1 etc.

If you're willing to learn, I could show, and teach you. No sarcasm here. I'm serious. But you have to be willing to learn.

Mpellizze30 05-03-2011 11:59 PM

Im very willing but those cars u mention dont do 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. it is the fastest production car to date. When i finish my car i will be going to the track with an open mind and im very willing to learn. i do realize every race car from f1 to nascar is rwd, and i get the weight thing but i just dont see how rwd can handle like awd, look at the top gear board the only car that beats the veyron round a track is an f1 car.

dble Trouble 05-04-2011 12:13 AM

awd is not what makes a car handle better. Think about it for a second. When a tire is trying to turn and you apply the brakes near the limit of grip it starts to understeer. Why? Because the amount of grip available to the tire at that time is being divided into two. It's trying to steer in another direction and trying to brake at the same time. So traction is compromised in both scenarios. Same deal applies to turning into a corner, an awd car will have more of a tendency to understeer, much like a fwd car as the front wheels are connected to the driveline delivering power to the front as well as starting to steer, then as you exit a turn and start putting the power down, again you'll understeer wide, so you'd have to apply only partial throttle until the car is almost straight, then you could apply full throttle, whilst the rwd car has been applying power down since the apex. That would equal roughly a car length in just one turn, and if that turn is feeding a long straight then that distance gets multiplied. The Veyron is not the quickest car on the leader board of Top Gear anymore the Ariel Atom toppled it, and it is a rwd, and there were two quicker cars which couldn't count because they were not using DOT tires, the Ferrari Fxx and the Ultima GTR both of which are rwd. The reason the Bugatti is there is because that track is more of a power track than a handling track and there are many long straights where the Bugatti could use it's enormous power to it's advantage.

But you are using a rather extreme example here. Let's talk more about realistic cars like the Audi A4 2.0t vs. the 328. No contest. Comparisons like that could go on and on for days.

Dynamically speaking rwd>awd>fwd in a performance environment. Although IMO I'd rather have fwd over awd. I've driven A4's with and with awd and I found the fwd ones much livelier, again due to weight advantages. In the snow, I've never heard of anyone that uses snow tires to have a problem with the rwd. And if anyone does, there's usually a reason behind it, inexperience, driving to fast for the conditions, worn out snows etc.

Come to Mosport on June 4 and 5, and I'll take you around to show you the difference. www.trillium-bmwclub.ca for details about the w/e.

dble Trouble 05-04-2011 12:15 AM

Another thing about the top gear board, all of the cars behind the Veyron are within about 3 seconds of it are giving up 400-500hp to the Veyron and still manage to stick with it.....

Mpellizze30 05-04-2011 01:06 PM

great info thx alot! Im getting a few things done to my car including some bodywork so if its done in time ill be there for sure! i wana see what this s50b32 can do at the track. Do i have to register or anything? My old man might come too hes got a e46 m3 dinan stage 2 and ive kinda been hasseling him to race me for a while lol. i would think id be able to take him with the weight difference and i should be making close to the same power as he is with similar mods, but his car feels alot faster for whatever reason. He has also done a bunch of driving schools at mosport so he knows that track pretty well by now which im sure will be the biggest difference.
thx
Mike

Mpellizze30 05-07-2011 11:50 AM

checked out that link sounds like the same days budds bmw is going is that right? Gregor offerd me n my old man a spot but i think he had an issue those days. I would love to go but i remember it beeing pricey and im not sure how much im going to have to fork out for this bodywork yet i guess it depends if my cars ready and if i have the loot, but i would love to go!

SamE30e 05-08-2011 11:40 AM

Symetrical AWD... Win

MarkD 05-08-2011 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dble Trouble (Post 1498865)
In what way other than acceleration on a slippery surface does a rwd not only compete but obliterate an awd??? I'd like to know.

Have you tried an X5M on dry roads? I have, and it's amazing. Just mash the gas pedal and it launches forward with no wheelspin. You can also drive it around corners aggressively. It makes it easy for the average driver to do.

I think it's an improvement over the RWD models even in the dry.

dble Trouble 05-08-2011 07:35 PM

I did not have the opportunity to try the X5M but did have the chance to try an X6M and not impressed at all, RWD would have made me happier. Have you tried a 550 rwd? That thing with the traction and stability off still had a tonne of traction and no drama.


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