Overdue feedback for my experience with Bimmersport Automotive
This is a bit long overdue but I feel as the whole community should know about how Bimmersport deals with loyal customers and how they conduct business. Please keep this thread clean and don’t turn it into a bashing contest as I don’t want this post to mysteriously go missing as well.
When I first joined Max back in 2006 I was looking for a reliable and trustful mechanic that can take on the projects and upgrades that I had always had planned for my car. After researching the forum and attending their BBQ, I chose Bimmersport. For the first year everything was great, I was treated like family and had no issues with the shop (look up posted feedback). After a year had passed I decided to go with a S54 swap which Bimmersport said NP and that they can tackle with ease. After sourcing the parts for me, we began the swap which took a good 5 months because for half of the time my car was just sitting there collecting dust. Once the swap finally started I kept getting calls from Charlie saying you need to order this part, you are missing this part and such (he even tried to convince me that I need a brand new clutch since they didn’t have the alignment tool to use on the clutch which was bolted up to my engine). I always had trusted Charlie like my own family member so with a blind eye I would say yes to any suggestion that he would have without researching what is being presented to me. Fast forward to the day that I am picking up the car, the car looks great and drives fine, the only thing that was there was a CEL from a “fuel leak” which they said bring it back and we will fix.
So I said ok and asked for the bill – The bill was $6,890 MINUS the $8,000 which I had just spent for parts. So I ask Charlie and he says well we had to order a lot of small parts here and there and that also the labor was a lot since this swap was very complicated and that it took him 4 months (not true since I would stop by and see that nothing has even been touched on the car). Aside from bringing the car back to fix the CEL which I spent around $500 on a DTML pump and a gas cap which it STILL didn’t fix my CEL, I decided to go to a few shops and have them look over the whole car as I was very frustrated. After going to 3 high end mechanics, they said that my car is pretty much falling apart and here is what’s wrong:
Oil cooler being held on by tie straps – nothing was fabricated to secure the S54 oil cooler – no brackets or anything
Exhaust – 3 different exhaust pipes were used from different material (they had used a part of my rouge engineering pipe, a part of my old Remus pipe, another custom exhaust pipe and they used all of this when I had provided them with a brand new full header back exhaust form rouge engineering
Shock mounts – rear shock mounts cracked and being held on by the shock it self
Diff – the LSD has failed and needs replacement due to oil starvation possibly by the installer not having filled it up properly
Wiring – engine bay looks like a mess and also wiring has not been cleaned up
Detail – nothing had been cleaned up, the engine was still dirty as it was cleaned before it was swapped in – the underbody trays missing thus leaving the engine naked to any dirt and road debris
CEL - Fuel leak detected
To make things better, the oil cooler had broke off without me knowing when I was driving the car to be stored after the first snow storm which we had last year and noticed that my red oil light is on, quickly I pulled over and checked the bottom of the car and what do you know, the pipe which goes to the oil cooler was hanging off as I must of hit some LIGHT snow on the drive to the storage. After spending so much money performing this swap, I had called Bimmersport back and told them the diff has failed and all problems that the car has – to their convenience they said we are fully booked up and to bring the car back next year (this is in December, 2009). After Charlie saw that I had taken the car to a competitor, he quickly called me and started blaming the problem on his employees and how they sourced the parts and they carried out the swap. For a shop OWNER, he sure doesn’t take a lot of responsibilities. I said forget it and took my car and business to a different shop so I don’t have to deal with Charlie, his excuses and child play.
After all of this, I arrange to pick up my old swapped parts from my 325 and the service manager tells me that the parts are in the back of the shop due to OWNERS request and that I cannot come into the shop to pick them up – he said that I should pick them up from the back of the shop in their PARTS car which is accessible to anyone passing by. I show up to the shop very calm and collective and enter the shop with respect…say hi to Jonny and wait for him to finish with customers so I can ask for my parts…after a few minutes Charlie tells me to get out of his shop very rudely (I had even said hi nicely to him) and that my parts are outside. I go around the shop and everything is just laying on the floor as if it’s nothing – well thanks a lot Charlie, I guess spending $20K+ wasn’t enough and you had to leave my own parts outside for me to pick up. Great mutual respect you have for your loyal customers that were always behind you and recommended in excess of $10K worth of jobs to your shop.
None of this phased me as much as what happened last week. Fast forward to today which I just found out my engine needs a new head DUE to the oil cooler failing last year and the motor being starved for oil – if they had properly fabricated me brackets for the oil cooler (very minimal job and not costly at all), this would of never happened and I would have not been in a position to need a new head and being even more $ out of my pocket.
Moral of the story is, do NOT trust Bimmersport Automotive and Charlie – The shop is very unethical and does not care about the customers satisfaction. If you care about your car/hobby and investment, take it to a professional shop and don't waste your time/money.
So what's your next move? Warning us about your experience is greatly appreciated but what are you gonna do now?
From what you've described, you have not received the product/service you paid for. Isn't there some kind of consumer protection for this type of thing? Are you taking this to court?
Ouch, sorry to hear man. Especially after how much it all cost too, that's like an E46 M3 plus the worth of your car pre-swap.
Quickid - I am currently looking at the different options I have to get compensated, just waiting to see which route i want to go with this.
I was also wondering if the following statement is true or not: The S54 (or any engine) does not rely on engine oil to keep the head/engine cool.
So if the oil cooler broke off and all the engine oil poured out the side of my car, my head would still be ok and my valve(s) would not be bent? Please educate me.
Umm, dude, if you did loose significant oil volume like you said you did, pressure would drop, and you'd probably spin a bearing or something first before doing anything major in the top end. On a nearly unrelated note, valves bend usually due to extremely high revving, aka moneyshifting, abuse, etc.
The no oil caused the valve to seize in the valve guide, causing it to hit the piston and then bending.
Also the whole top end of engine cams, lifters etc are scored, due to loss of oil.
Your mechanic contacted me, and informed of the real conclusion
(which you should have before you discuss with people or if you did you'd originally post that).
Kevin, when I personally came to your house and had numerous
discussions to bring it back to get all of this sorted out you
declined as you lost trust. Understandable, I offered you the S/C
(we'd even finance it for you at cost with N/C install) you wanted ON
TOP of the repairs necessary to compensate for time, fustration, and
money lost due to the time which was declined.
Unfortunately, at the time of install I was not in the position
of this company to legitimately authorize anything - while I came into
this position I named the offer above, with no acceptance. Even the
choice to take the kit, and get it installed where you want. I already
know when you turned it down, and went direct to the manufacture and paid more than what I'd give it to you for (seems a bit hard headed, but it
is ultimately your choice). Please do not tell me you got it at an offer I can't give, we both know that is pure BS as we have a joint venture with that very company.
We could go further into this, and conclude this matter (like said a
LONG TIME AGO) but you did not return my call at the time of pick up.
You were determined to go your own route (I know you called me on the
way back from KW, but I called you back with no return call). As you said when you left the shop, that you want to do everything in your power to get back.
By the way, I know your quoting me...as I PM'd you due to mutual respect. Since you cannot show the same respect after all I've tried to help you, then I guess I will quote you back.
As far as your concerned Bimmersport is liable for all parts sold - when you bought the drivetrain (incl the failing diff) from an employee NOT BIMMERSPORT AUTOMOTIVE INC. How much credit do I have in this? Lets see...I went with the employee to pick it up, I negotiated the deal between you 2, I even stored your stuff at my house. Why would I do that if Bimmersport sold it to you? Just for the record, I am not the employee who sourced, or planned out this project. The project was an influenced idea from the employee to the customer. Bimmersport Automotive was inclined to harbour the work given the 2 mutual parties interest in this project. Note the word 'project', not work order. The tech and customer both willingly went into this project knowing neither party has done this before, and is an attempt to make it work based on confidence, and extensive and creditable knowledge on the vehicle, engine and the electrical complications involved.
I'm giving you the opportunity to discuss this further in PM. Do not quote me personally on here, and if you have any mechanical questions ask your mechanic. The reason why things go sour on both ends is because you did not take my advice of bringing up an issue when you have it. Instead, you failed to do so and got advice from people on the boards (mind you, some are smart - but how good of a source is it compared to a known shop?)..paid what you did and bring it up publicly months later. I do not understand how you expect things to be solved.
Your mechanic said you brought the car in last month to get the broken/fallen off oil cooler fixed, that wasn't an issue when it left the shop (it was secured, but not the way you'd want it). You were uninformed of that when it left our shop, you were informed of its 'hazard' in late 09 when you got it checked by a different sponsor (there is a reference to that on this very forum). You didn't repair it, or bring it back to us addressing it...and THIS YEAR it comes off (1 year after you knew) and it is a huge problem to your engine. If I was a customer, and had found out I had a problem or questionable installation of a product I would:
1) Take it back, and get it repaired
2) Lost faith in the shop, and get it fixed elsewhere
My question is why did you not fix it when it was addressed in 09? If you did not that means you had confidence in it? Before you say what I can 90% assume, NO I am not saying too bad, so sad.
Unfortunately, I cannot provide the VIN # since the items sold are not in our records. You would have to contact the private seller of your parts.
I am still deeply sorry for all of this, as things may be different given I was in the position I am now - however, our staff structure has changed due to these very issues.
By the way, I'm still in shock to see how much effort you are putting to bring up the diff issue, even your mechanic tried to throw it at me (aside from a few other off topic things he has 1 side of the story on....) when the person who sold it to you is still your buddy - and if he made the situation right (which I am sure he would, and did otherwise I doubt you'd even wish him happy bday), why are you bringing up a failed part with a party who did not even sell it to you?
I'd also love to know, approx. HOW LONG would you really leave the engine running after hitting something to break the oil lines off the cooler! If you left it on long enough for that small line, to leak 6+ L out of the engine to cause the seizing of the valve, is it really the installation ?
But really dude, Valves don't seize... at least not immediately. You know what material guides are made from, right? You would have a hell of a catastrophe with the rest of the motor before the valves 'seize'... As far as being bent, that wouldn't be caused by lack of oil.
If the top end is as bad as you say it is, you better take a look at the bottom end, you may be surprised. I wouldn't doubt you being ready for a full rebuild at this point if it was seriously run that badly out of oil. I'd say you're lucky it hasn't grenaded yet. Good luck, hope you can get it all resolved.
dont take your car there period. my experience was just as bad if not worse.
As Zack said, why would I want to come back and have work done at the very same shop that wouldn't make things right when I came to them while I was in need of help?
It's amazing how you say this is a "project" and it was done between a Bimmersport Employee and me - well guess what Jon, Charlie Nour is the sole owner of Bimmersport Automotive and he is liable for all WORK done in that shop. And according to this lovely bill infront of me, all of this work was surely DONE at Bimmersport Automotive. I don't care if it was a project, work order or a swap. If i paid top dollar for work to be done at a "top notch" tuning shop, then why did the owner not even take a look at the car before leaving? i mean he DID take my money, but did he take care of my car the same way he took my money?
He sure didn't - If he had one look under the car he would realize that a near $7,000 job shouldn't have tie straps as mounting brackets for my oil cooler - the exhaust SHOULD not have been welded with 3 different pipes - and to make all this better, you said all the parts have been inspected and nothing is wrong. If your Employee happened to source the parts, does that make you pay less attention to my "project"? So if this swap was done between me and an employee and it wasn't a "work order" then why exactly did i pay $6,890 to Bimmersport Automovie for? Can you please explain that to me? All I know is Charlie did not even look over the car once - I know because every time I would come to ask how things are he wouldn't even know and brush me off to the tech who was working on the car. I mean you guys say this was your first S54 swap and you had a lot to learn then WHY was the "master tech" not helping out and carrying out my swap?
You came to my house and try to reconcile me with a finance supercharger and free install (So technically you are offering me a free install @ $800 for all the issues but at the same time selling me a kit lol). What does a free install benefit me? Is it going to fix my grinding diff? Is this going to pay me for a new oil cooler? new engine? new diff? new exhaust? Pretty much the whole swap is to be redone.
And what are you talking about? The oil cooler broke off last year which I had to buy a used one from MGYVER and have it installed on x-mas day. The lack of responsibility is here for all forum members to see - either you will make things right this time as Zack mentioned and I will clear the air or else we will be doing this same dance for a long time.
Ball is in your court. let's see if you guys will finally do the right thing.
offering to install and finance a s/c at no cost... he obviously didn't want you working on the car. because he lost all trust and It seems like you guys made a huge mess. why would he spend more money and have you guys possibly make things worse?
Read the entire comment, he had 2 options. I don't need to type it out more than once. I am only posting here, because if I try to keep things private they go public, so why bother?
maby you guys need to change a few policy's and make sure when stuff goes out the door its going to be a quality job you can stand behind.
Considering this happenned like, 1.5years ago, lots of things change (like the person who did the work, has his own place now, I am now managing our client database instead of being a tech)..even daily- there is also a new staff structure as stated
furthermore a good step in that direction would be to put everything behind you and reconcile in some way with the customer.
Multiple attempts made, but the customer did not want to accept them. He has now posted this, if you read (his and mine, again) out of fustration due to what happenned (the oil cooler line falling off, and due to the fact too much oil came out from the oil line his valve seized (which is the 2nd story I heard from the same source about what happenned).
but dont bother sending me a pm to discuss this with me. i will simply delete it without reading it. good luck and i hope you guys step up to the plate!]
Thanks for the advice, if you have read my post you would see that I took it to a personal level with Kevin - I was not the shop manager at the time, I was not the tech working on the car, but my friendship with Kevin and my moral obligation left me attempting to reconcile this matter with him since the car has left until he picked up his parts last time, by going to his house for a sit down on what happenned, multiple verbal communications. It's fine to me, that Kevin won't say what I have tried to do.
What makes this worse, is that now you posted all you did and half the stuff you are trying to tell me - I have already done and is even in my post, either way thanks for the 'help'. No need to PM me to discuss further, as I will just delete it.
Blackout95, where did I say there is no job documented? Or we do not recognize the job done? I am posting this more as a communication to Kevin, I am not trying to clear the smoke..because we have already changed internally (and not recently) the causes of the problems.
I would love to make this clear, that DISCLOSURE OF AN ENTIRE SITUATION IS NOT RUNNING AWAY FROM A PROBLEM for those who do not understand that.
Bring the car back
We will go over the ENTIRE swap over, I will give MY COST of the S/C, No labour- matter of fact, if you want take it where you want and I will still load the software on your ECU N/C without you having to ship because NO ONE in Ontario has an AA flashing station except me.
You told me I am not comming back. I spent 2 hours of my personal time, for a decline of the offer.
This is old news Kevin, you fail to let everyone know the attempts I have made on the phone, and in person to you. I again offered you so lets work this out when you came to pick up your parts, and you are the one who said no. You may have felt upset about what happenned when you came, but if we did not care about you - I would not come outside to talk to you about the situation, to prevent any of this (like every other attempt I made).
I did not call you, message you, or come to your house just to chill or to talk about anything else. Charlie even talked to you on our way home from work but you still did not come.
If we did not give a shit about you, I would not have helped you sell your old drive train last year, and even back up your product when the person who bought your stuff complained about it.
Next time you have a problem, and I really do not care what anyone has to say because YOU know the truth about this:
You did not address it when you had the problem, you said yourself "despite what you said, I paid the bill anyways". Now a year later, you want to make it public and tell me to do something about it? Remember - FROM THE TIME OF PAYMENT, UNTIL THIS VERY SECOND I HAVE BEEN TRYING.
I cannot stress that enough, if you have too much pride to come back Kevin - your a big boy, I CANNOT hold your hand and bring you back. I have tried many things to help you out.
Again, I will post this again since my first post wasnt even read correctly -
I told you to bring the car back for:
AN ENTIRE look over of the swap
AA MASTER DISTRIBUTER COST on the S/C
N/C Labour or the option to take it where you want
I know you will spend 150+ on shipping your ecu, so I will load your ECU with the software to save you the $150.
They are all small #'s individually, but they all add up (much like you said about the bill your complaining about).
I cannot go back in time, and do anything about it. I can only fix the things brought to my attention. If you weren't valued to us, or recognized you are a loyal customer - I would not have always tried to talk to you about this, I would not have COME TO YOUR HOUSE to talk to you about this, I would not even bother posting any of this right now.
Considering this is a problem of an EX employee, and you are STILL talk about the diff from the EX employee (the install did not cause your diff to go, remember we switched the fluid to the updated SAF-XJ to try and remedy the noise with no result in the end) and in that situation, you expected BIMMERSPORT AUTOMOTIVE to replace the diff when you asked nothing of the seller? You are right on many things, but some stuff you are not.
I am not going to PM you anymore with offers, I am not going to make any new ones, because what I have offered you 1 year ago was enough to fix this all. If you had taken my offer, or taken it upon yourself to fix the issue which you left for 1year to YOUR knowledge of your oil cooler you WOULD NOT be in this situation of replacing the cooler, or your head, or anything. You'd be putting down 500whp.
From what I know, since you on many occasions declined my offer as stated above you have 'cut your loss' and would rather ruin the reputation, in fact you told me that. Stop getting at trying to compensate, you had many offers and declined.
The ball was in our court from the time I was aware of all this (last year), you just didn't catch it when I threw it back to you. Your oil cooler broke, your in a tight spot...and now your comming back to me with expectations.
A bad situation happened on your car lately, but that sure could have been prevented if you dropped your pride to accept my offer LAST YEAR.
Please do not tell me, I did not make an attempt.. the word "finally make it right" was offered A LONG TIME AGO.
If you want to professionally communicate and TRULY end this, call me and discuss this.
You could have even done this when you brought your car to your mechanic, the only communication I had from your end, and ever had given this whole situation was yesterday when your mechanic called me. You didn't even call me about it.
I took it upon myself, after seeing your post to YET AGAIN try and reconcile with you, our FIRST part of the conversation could not even be kept private and you quote me.
I try to be professional with you, for you to turn around and use what I am saying against me like I'm trying to buy a way out. I do not get your intention, to try and slap me back how you feel slapped? Seriously, I wish you would deal with me as professionally as you post on here.
As I said to you in person i DO NOT want a S/C kit but rather the $ or at least some of the money which I paid for the swap. If the swap was not done right, it doesn't make sense for you to try and sell me on another upgrade for my car at your cost. I don't care about that - I care about the job which you HAD previously done.
What the hell do I care for a free S/C install and AA kit at your cost? I want my current car to be fixed and RUNNING the way i want to be - i PAID all that money for my car to be perfect and you guys scrwed up so you want to offer me a free install on a S/C kit which I need to buy from you? how does that make sense? That's a hit in my eyes because you guys will end up breaking something in the process of the install which will end up costing me more than $800.
Why didn't you say we will pay you for all the problems we have caused you and be done with it. But being Bimmersport, you will always try to squeeze the customer to the last penny. NO I WILL NOT take the S/C as a make good for your mistakes for the 100000th time.
I am done with this - if you are not going to make this right, then I'm sure the law will.
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