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daytona 06-24-2009 12:51 PM

Toronto stinks!!!
 
Biked around downtown today morning and the amount of garbage in less than two days is hideous.Add to the mix of hot weather and tourist season this be a good site for the visitors to our fair city.Damn I even saw piles upon of something infront of restaurant that had flies covered every mm of the bag.I talked to the owner and he said someone dumped the bags here in the morning before he opened.Called by law inspectors but they only had three supervisors for the whole downtown core.Unions sucks!!!:moon:

BigD 06-24-2009 02:58 PM

You should see London (the one in England) by midnight. Those have to be the nastiest dirtiest people on earth. During the day the city looks clean to the naked eye but when you get home, you find you have black boogers from the shit in the air. Then by midnight, the streets are littered with vomit, garbage and god knows what else. But they do have probably the largest and most intense cleaning army I've ever seen. By next morning it looks clean again.

mudmojo 06-24-2009 03:25 PM

Well when they do come back to work, you know at least a few of them will have to work the Chinatown routes... so there's some vindication.

Robb 06-24-2009 03:37 PM

Why does the gov't need unionized workers anyways ?
Just hire regular salary workers no union.

A union (gang) is such an old fashioned thing nowadays.....

dtthiaga 06-24-2009 04:12 PM

The only way you can justify a Union is, upon a strike, the position can be filled by temporary workers.
This way, you remove the hostage nature, and get down to only asking and getting what you deserve.

Anything else is hostage taking, and is really no different when a journalist is kidnapped and threatened to be beheaded unless money or criminals are released.

This City is stupid. They should have trained some backup workers and put them to work.
There are probably thousands of people in Toronto would could use the work.

Here's a good article.
Quote:

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/co...35701-sun.html

I'll never understand the appeal of unions, especially in Canada. Without ever joining a union, Canadian workers are entitled to health care coverage, severance pay if dismissed without cause, and Canada Pension participation. What do Canadians gain by joining a union?

Most union members I've spoken to don't feel they get much from their union. When these members do have a grievance, they find their union representatives poorly prepared to help them or simply uninterested. They find their union representatives are too busy trying to organize new members to help the ones already in the fold.

But if union members aren't fond of their unions, how do you think the employers feel?

We know how Wal-Mart feels about unions. When Wal-Mart's workers at its Jonquiere, Que. store gained union certification, Wal-Mart simply closed the store and left town. I applaud this move. The tail should not wag the dog, and if Wal-Mart would rather run its business unfettered by the considerable hassle and expense of negotiating and implementing a union contract, they should be allowed to do so.

......
......

Unionized public employees wield too much power when they have the right to strike. Most notably our public transportation systems have been held hostage by striking workers. But their irresponsible actions are too often rewarded with pay increases.

Unions had their place many years ago, but in the Canadian labour market I think their time has come and gone.

BigD 06-24-2009 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb (Post 1317830)
Why does the gov't need unionized workers anyways ?
Just hire regular salary workers no union.

A union (gang) is such an old fashioned thing nowadays.....

Unions are a good idea at the core. It's kind of like communism - if things worked as intended, it would be perfect. But it's always one extreme or another. Unions were formed because when times were tough, companies would simply fire someone who wouldn't do their bidding (namely work for peanuts), because there was always someone else who would (it's better than starving). The problem is that thanks to human nature, instead of things being left at that, it swung in the other direction, with the companies being extorted by the unions, who use their power to hold the company hostage, getting unfair deals when times are good and enforcing those deals when times are tough.

Just like most other problems we face in North America, it's a question of choosing between the lesser of two evils. Is it better to have kids abused or turn into assholes due to excessive protection/freedom? Is it better to have manual labor workers basically being slaves, or be hugely overpaid for their services? Is it better to have media report nothing but good news and never have a bad word and nudity, or to allow media to talk shit about anyone and anything (true or not), with kids being able to watch violent killing and ****ing on cable TV?

We as a race are seemingly incapable of finding a happy medium (if we do it's for a very brief period before things fall off the cliff on the other side). I don't know the answer to any of the above, if someone did they'd have a nobel prize.

dtthiaga 06-24-2009 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigD (Post 1317848)
Unions are a good idea at the core. It's kind of like communism - if things worked as intended, it would be perfect. But it's always one extreme or another. Unions were formed because when times were tough, companies would simply fire someone who wouldn't do their bidding (namely work for peanuts), because there was always someone else who would (it's better than starving). The problem is that thanks to human nature, instead of things being left at that, it swung in the other direction, with the companies being extorted by the unions, who use their power to hold the company hostage, getting unfair deals when times are good and enforcing those deals when times are tough.

Just like most other problems we face in North America, it's a question of choosing between the lesser of two evils. Is it better to have kids abused or turn into assholes due to excessive protection/freedom? Is it better to have manual labor workers basically being slaves, or be hugely overpaid for their services? Is it better to have media report nothing but good news and never have a bad word and nudity, or to allow media to talk shit about anyone and anything (true or not), with kids being able to watch violent killing and ****ing on cable TV?

We as a race are seemingly incapable of finding a happy medium (if we do it's for a very brief period before things fall off the cliff on the other side). I don't know the answer to any of the above, if someone did they'd have a nobel prize.

The lesser of two evils really is NO UNIONS.
In Canada, we have great labour laws, and minimum wages already set.
There are systems in place for unjust firing, accidents at work.

Unions were fine 30 years ago, not now.

If Unions are fine, then let companies staff them with temporary workers until the dispute is over. Take the gun or machete out of union bosses hands.

I heard, at the drop off centre, these Union guys are allowing 1 person every 15 minutes to drop off their garbage.

Unreal hostage takers…. Who get 18 Sick days a year, which is bankable to retirement.

Aren’t sicks days for when you are sick? …. It’s not called “Personal Days”.. or Vacation.

sirex 06-24-2009 06:07 PM

without unions everyone would be making 7$ an hour.
without unions those labour laws you speak of would never exist in the first place.
without unions, your manager would and could hold you hostage to your work.

its not perfect, but its better then no union. it also raises quality of life and creates better, high paying jobs.

I dont know what you do for work, but I dont think you would like to be replaced by a 20 year old that can do you job for 1/5th the price.

i say everyone should go on strike. **** this city and cronnies the run it. shut the bitch down.

BigD 06-24-2009 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirex (Post 1317892)
without unions everyone would be making 7$ an hour.
without unions those labour laws you speak of would never exist in the first place.
without unions, your manager would and could hold you hostage to your work.

its not perfect, but its better then no union. it also raises quality of life and creates better, high paying jobs.

I dont know what you do for work, but I dont think you would like to be replaced by a 20 year old that can do you job for 1/5th the price.

Yup.

Robb 06-24-2009 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirex (Post 1317892)
without unions everyone would be making 7$ an hour.
without unions those labour laws you speak of would never exist in the first place.
without unions, your manager would and could hold you hostage to your work.

So 90% of jobs arent unionized and all seem to run smoothly.
It's the unionized jobs that always are on strike. *thmbsdwn*

JazzM 06-24-2009 07:37 PM

Neither Toyota or Honda have unionized workforce and you don't see them begging the government for handouts. GM/Chrysler on the other hand pay nearly double for the average hourly rate and look at the position that it put them in. On top of that they are building 2nd rate products which constantly lose market share.

Companies nowerdays know how to treat people fairly and labor laws exist exactly for that purpose. Unions are a think of the past and should be banned.

T.

BigD 06-24-2009 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JazzM (Post 1317927)
Neither Toyota or Honda have unionized workforce and you don't see them begging the government for handouts. GM/Chrysler on the other hand pay nearly double for the average hourly rate and look at the position that it put them in. On top of that they are building 2nd rate products which constantly lose market share.

Companies nowerdays know how to treat people fairly and labor laws exist exactly for that purpose. Unions are a think of the past and should be banned.

T.

I'm not sure where this information comes from but it seems to be what everyone thinks. My friend in UW worked a coop term at the Toyota plant. He's a mech eng, he said Toyota workers may not have an official union (the machinists may, not sure) but they are organized, and they make MORE per hour than CAW workers (I'm not talking about this trumped up figure you hear in the media which includes all of the company's expenses incl legacy costs) but what people actually get on their paystub. He said the assembly line workers in the plant make more than the engineers he was working with. A kid he met there was a highschool student on a summer term, he got 25 bucks an hour for running errands because his dad is a "union" guy and got him the gig (it's impossible to get in from the outside).

The fairness you see from companies today, like sirex said, is thanks to these boogieman unions. You may wish to say that we need to get rid of them now that we've gotten the laws, but I guarantee you, with 100% certainty, that it will simply swing the other way in time. ****, in time, it's already happening - you know anyone that's been fired because their job belongs to someone in India making 1/10th of what they did? I do.

Like I said I know they take things too far, but I don't know what's better and anyone who thinks they do is either fooling themselves or is smarter than all of the nobel laureates and phds in the world on the subject - because they haven't got it figured out. I do get the feeling that the answer lies somewhere closer to rich assembly line workers and garbagemen (oops, sanitation engineers), than unemployed people bitching on forums about desperate people willing to work for doughnuts, taking their jobs (that is, while they can afford their internet).

Rice 06-24-2009 09:01 PM

I agree that these people are taking the city hostage and it shouldn't be tolerated. They should all be fired and hire people that currently in desperate need of a job. I mean seriously, how hard is it to train someone to pick up garbage and drive a garbage truck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dtthiaga (Post 1317844)
The only way you can justify a Union is, upon a strike, the position can be filled by temporary workers.
This way, you remove the hostage nature, and get down to only asking and getting what you deserve.

Anything else is hostage taking, and is really no different when a journalist is kidnapped and threatened to be beheaded unless money or criminals are released.

This City is stupid. They should have trained some backup workers and put them to work.
There are probably thousands of people in Toronto would could use the work.

Here's a good article.


sirex 06-24-2009 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rice (Post 1317954)
I agree that these people are taking the city hostage and it shouldn't be tolerated. They should all be fired and hire people that currently in desperate need of a job. I mean seriously, how hard is it to train someone to pick up garbage and drive a garbage truck.


You guys dont get it do you.

IT IS VERY hard to find GOOD LOYAL employees that you get for life. Unions do this. Unions create stable jobs, and for the most part create loyal employees that stay with the company until they retire.

How hard is it to hire garbage operators?

Ill tell you how hard it is:

First you need someone that can drive and has a clean record for the start.
Second you need someone thats going to work those 8 hours.
Third you need someone thats not going to quit 2 weeks in after he gets first pay stub.

You dont get it, you think that because its garbage work, that it should be contracted out to 9$ an hour employees.. THEN when they back the truck up into a house, and make a run for it, who will foot the bill then?

9$ an hour employees dont give a shit.

And the fact that you guys keep coming back to this is amazing. First, I dont know what job any of you guys do, but THERE IS A 15 year old in CHINA THAT CAN DO YOUR JOB BETTER. No matter what job you are doing, I can almost gurantee you.

And hes just as eager.

So its easy to point fingers at the garbage workers, at the nurses, at all the small jobs that you think are easy as piss, but I gurantee you the first 9$ an hour asshole to sit in a garbage truck with no AC is going to walk out that door the next day.. Good luck getting stable ****ing workers for anything.

Add to this, these are mediocore payed employees. They aren't making 6 ****ing figures. A garbage man at the top pay teir probably rakes in 55 to 60,000$ a year plus benefits.

At least this asshole puts his money back into the economy. What the **** is ChinaDumpPlastics in Toronto goign to do for us? A Chinese company picking up our garbage with 9$ an hour workers in Toronto, that then siphons the money out to china? Is that waht you guys really want?

Everything is so dipshit easy in the media eyes and the I want it now world. Unfortuantely its not that easy. When you lose those union jobs that pay their workers a measley 50,000$ a year to live in Toronto, WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO GO NEXT?

WHO do you think is going to shop at your small business? no one.
Soon those big banker tycoons that we see posting on these forums too, will be gone as well.
Who do you think buys those Toyotas and Hondas that you make In Ontario? That very same union toronto worker fills in a bigger hole then you think he or she does. And once you start pulling the wood work from under you, itll only be a matter of time when you get canned for some little boy in China, or for some bigger corporation that WILL HIRE YOU BACK FOR 1/2 your pay.


Then tell me where are the unions? Where are the labour laws? Those ****ing labour laws that you talk about, those will change in 2 minutes flat if a lobbyist with enough bribing power and string pull comes in. You can kiss your rights good buy.

woofster 06-24-2009 09:37 PM

So yeah, garbage stinks.


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