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-   -   2002 530i - noise from engine bay on start up for 1 min then disappears (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121605)

Mesbo 06-16-2009 12:11 PM

2002 530i - noise from engine bay on start up for 1 min then disappears
 
New here. Excellent site!

When I start the engine in the morning, I get this metal bearing like noise for about 1 minute, then it disappears. This first started in the winter, but now happens all the time. BMW Toronto has looked at it 4 times already (last year) under warranty and this is what they have done:

1st Time: Changed hydraulic tensioner pulley and both belts
2nd Time: Fixed Steering Pump leak
3rd Time: Changed other pulley wheel/guide as it felt "rough" when manually spinning it. Oh and at this time the car jockey kid smashed my rear bumper with another customer's car. Long story, but they had to repaint bumper.
4th Time: They replaced my alternator

The service rep Mark W was great, but the techs and that kid were a disaster. They promised that this will still be covered under warranty, but I refused to go back as that entire experience was so horrible. If they fixed it the first time, the rear bumper would not have been smashed ;)

Basically, I start my car and the metal screeching noise comes on. If I reverse out of garage, it goes away until I stop in my driveway still in reverse and it comes back. After the first minute, it's gone and will not return until the next morning start. Personally, I suspected either alternator or water pump - water pump still original. Because it only happens for 1 minute, it is hard to diagnose and I can live with it (for 1.5 years), but I'm just wondering if it could be something serious that might go and leave me stranded somewhere.

Sorry for the long post, but didn't want to miss anything.

Paul

Bullet Ride 06-16-2009 12:15 PM

could be the fan clutch

Max_VQ 06-16-2009 03:26 PM

I am going to assume that the techs have replaced all three idler pulleys and alternator.

It could be:
(1) Water Pump (BTW due to age you should replace rad, thermostat & water pump ASAP)
(2) A/C compressor clutch or bearing (does the noise change if AC is on/off?)
(3) Secondary Air Pump.

Skeg 06-17-2009 09:20 AM

I was going to say could be pully tension

Max_VQ 06-17-2009 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeg (Post 1315377)
I was going to say could be pully tension

I would agree... but I think they have been replaced???

My car is making the same noise.
I am going to pull the fan and shroud to get some room, start the engine, and use a 14" screw driver to touch each pulley and touch the handle end to my ear. (if you have never done this, it is AMAZING what you can hear) The bad pulley will be very loud....

I may try changing just the bearing in the pulley IF I can get it out and IF Ted's bearings can get me the same one.

Skeg 06-17-2009 01:24 PM

Just check how much deflection there is in the belts before you take everything apart. I had a really bad screetching sound coming from my ac compressor on start up... i got the pulley a little tighter and it has gone away

Mesbo 06-17-2009 04:57 PM

Thanks to everyone for the input.

The pulley tensioner has been replaced plus alternator and i think only 1 of the idler pulleys.

Max_VQ:

So you have a similar condition - I hope we can both get this solved! As for the recommendations on cooling system, I've read this everywhere else too and it freaks me out that is going to happen to every e39. I only have 104,000km on the car - should I still make all the replacements? I've done a visual (no leaks) and "felt" the hoses and seem ok, but I really know nothing in the end. My best friend is a mechanic, so I would be saving most of the labour, but I'll have to work out the part costs.

Love this site...great feedback!

Mesbo 06-17-2009 05:07 PM

Forgot to add this...I always do this...turn car on and immediately turn off HVAC. My A/C is not on, but the HVAC system always turns on (hate that), so by turning it off, there still will be some brief start up by these components so maybe something there. I just don't understand that the noise is only for 1 minute for the past 1.5 years and only on first startup. You think it would have gotten louder and stay on longer if it was a bearing? So maybe the belt needs tightening...I will have that done when I get my buddy to do the oil change soon (down to one green light), or when I replace control arms (got the 50 km shake in the steering wheel when braking).

Max_VQ 06-17-2009 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesbo (Post 1315541)
Thanks to everyone for the input.

The pulley tensioner has been replaced plus alternator and i think only 1 of the idler pulleys.

Max_VQ:

So you have a similar condition - I hope we can both get this solved! As for the recommendations on cooling system, I've read this everywhere else too and it freaks me out that is going to happen to every e39. I only have 104,000km on the car - should I still make all the replacements? I've done a visual (no leaks) and "felt" the hoses and seem ok, but I really know nothing in the end. My best friend is a mechanic, so I would be saving most of the labour, but I'll have to work out the part costs.

Love this site...great feedback!

As for the cooling system... I replaced the rad, water pump, thermostat, and expansion tank in the first month of ownership. The car had 138,000 Km and I didn't want to chance it. Many people think it won't happen to them, but it will happen and you really can't check to see how close you are to going "boom.... ssssssss"

Also you should change your CCV (crankcase vent valve) before the winter. They tend to ice up if you make a few short trips, and this can cause oil to be sucked from the oil pan directly into the intake. Best case: you burn oil, worst case: the cylinder can fill with oil, and the connecting rod punches a hole in the block when it tries to compress oil. It happened to a guy here who has an X5. (same engine, M54) Make sure you get the "cold climate" CCV and hoses. They are insulated to keep in any heat to reduce icing.

The E39s are great cars to drive, but it does come at a cost.

Mesbo 06-18-2009 10:13 AM

So looking at http://www.autopartsway.ca/AutoParts...=2002~BMW~530i

Water Pump - Geba or Graf?
Radiator - Behr or Nissens?

Total part cost: 570 plus tax

Water Pump - Graf 101.3
Expansion Tank - Behr 76.96
Radiator - Behr 287.33
Thermostat - Behr 104.51


So the parts are not bad (will compare with Dealer pricing at BMW), its just the time and effort now. I'll search around for a DIY write up and see what's invovled.

Oh, and thx for the CCV recommendation. I'll add that to the list!

Max_VQ 06-18-2009 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesbo (Post 1315772)
So looking at http://www.autopartsway.ca/AutoParts...=2002~BMW~530i

Water Pump - Geba or Graf?
Radiator - Behr or Nissens?

Total part cost: 570 plus tax

Water Pump - Graf 101.3
Expansion Tank - Behr 76.96
Radiator - Behr 287.33
Thermostat - Behr 104.51

Oh, and thx for the CCV recommendation. I'll add that to the list!

I like the GRAF as the pump impeller is thin stainless steel, and not cast iron like the Geba. As for the rad I went with Behr.

You should also compare prices at http://www.bimmerspecialist.com/canada/parts/index/bmw#

They have the Behr rad for $233. Please post the BMW prices...

Mesbo 06-24-2009 01:42 PM

Called BMW...for the same parts they want around 1082...even if you take off the dealer price of 15%, it's still way more...so I guess I'll go the web route. I'll be doing a search for a detailed DIY on this, but will take to my buddy.

Max_VQ: I think I may do the CCV soon and wait on the cooling system for a few months. I may want to tackle this myself instead of using my buddy, since it will take about 4 hours and I don't want to take up a bay for that long for something that I think I can do. I have not gotten dirty on cars since my Z24 days (every part needed out except tranny and rad). I will be doing a big search on this, but do you have any links you used as well as advise on this? Should I also replace the 3 hoses that lead to the CCV?

Max_VQ 06-24-2009 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesbo (Post 1317787)
Called BMW...for the same parts they want around 1082...even if you take off the dealer price of 15%, it's still way more...so I guess I'll go the web route. I'll be doing a search for a detailed DIY on this, but will take to my buddy.

Max_VQ: I think I may do the CCV soon and wait on the cooling system for a few months. I may want to tackle this myself instead of using my buddy, since it will take about 4 hours and I don't want to take up a bay for that long for something that I think I can do. I have not gotten dirty on cars since my Z24 days (every part needed out except tranny and rad). I will be doing a big search on this, but do you have any links you used as well as advise on this? Should I also replace the 3 hoses that lead to the CCV?

The BMW dealers have insane pricing. You are getting the exact same quality parts as BMW parts for about HALF. (I kind of laugh when I use "BMW" and "quality parts" in the same sentence...)

As for CCV DIY, there are a few on bimmerforums.com and bimmerfest.com. I don't know if they have any for the 530, but I think the 528 is similar.

Some Tips:
-Go to Walmart any buy a 6-8" square hand held mirror. This will help you see around the intake. (assuming you are not going to take the intake manifold off... I didn't)

-Change all four CCV hoses. If they break, crack or leak, you engine will run poorly due to it running lean from an intake air leak.

-Get the "cold climate" version. This has a rubber jacket on the CCV and extra insulation on the hoses. This does make it a little harder to install, as you are starting with a small amount of room and will now have even less.

-Since the throttle body needs to be removed, you have easy access to the idle speed valve. (ISV) Clean it with a few q-tips and carbon cleaner. You can reuse the TB rubber seal. Mine was in great shape and soft.

-Give yourself lots of time... This job requires lots of patience.

Good Luck.

Max_VQ 06-24-2009 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesbo (Post 1315541)
Thanks to everyone for the input.

The pulley tensioner has been replaced plus alternator and i think only 1 of the idler pulleys.

Max_VQ:

So you have a similar condition - I hope we can both get this solved! As for the recommendations on cooling system, I've read this everywhere else too and it freaks me out that is going to happen to every e39. I only have 104,000km on the car - should I still make all the replacements? I've done a visual (no leaks) and "felt" the hoses and seem ok, but I really know nothing in the end. My best friend is a mechanic, so I would be saving most of the labour, but I'll have to work out the part costs.

Love this site...great feedback!

Mine stopped making the sound. It may be due to the A/C running all the time now.

The cooling system is quite easy to DIY as long as you have a basic set of tools and some patience. You could pay me to supervise... /jk!

porksoda 06-24-2009 11:57 PM

Max VQ... thats not a bad idea at all.. can make a mini meet out of it and bring you some brewskis :)


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