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-   -   E36 owners: Ever consider installing the M50 manifold without a tune? (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152964)

T.Dot_E30 09-05-2012 08:50 AM

And just to show that there is an improvement with a tune, this is a quote from bf.c with dyno before and after an m50 manifold.

Notice the drop in torque you don't see above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sfdrifts (Post 22056583)
Red curve is with the m50, I barely notice the drop in the 3k range when driving and she really opens up after 4k now, very happy with the m50 swap.:D


http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/z...g?t=1306390600


BigD 09-05-2012 09:32 AM

My point is that tuning is not necessary to use the M50 manifold. If you want to mess with the timing, power can be gained with any manifold, since they build in a safety margin from the factory (and as such, it's not an especially great idea unless it's a track car). But the manifold alone does not require any kind of special tuning just for its own sake. A better manifold simply lets you flow more air. The MAF and IAT readings will inform the DME of this and it will adjust the fuel in step.

Nolimit77 09-05-2012 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigD (Post 1581009)
My point is that tuning is not necessary to use the M50 manifold. If you want to mess with the timing, power can be gained with any manifold, since they build in a safety margin from the factory (and as such, it's not an especially great idea unless it's a track car). But the manifold alone does not require any kind of special tuning just for its own sake. A better manifold simply lets you flow more air. The MAF and IAT readings will inform the DME of this and it will adjust the fuel in step.

This was the only point I was trying to make in my OP. :) Perhaps we can get more people in here to share their experience with this swap.

T.Dot_E30 09-05-2012 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigD (Post 1581009)
My point is that tuning is not necessary to use the M50 manifold.

Fair enough, I was just responding your statement that it was a waste of money.

Pretty sure it is well understood that a tune isn't required and that there are top end gains and some low end torque loss without a tune, but a tune can help get some of the low end torque that is lost back, so it isn't completely worthless, just another mod.

SiR 09-05-2012 11:59 AM

you dont need a tune with the m50.

though as pointed out it can help recover some of the torque drop

Eau_Rouge 09-05-2012 11:59 AM

For those who've done it, how does this swap affect fuel mileage?

Nolimit77 09-05-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge (Post 1581041)
For those who've done it, how does this swap affect fuel mileage?

I wish I could comment, but my car is for the track only. I have read some people say that MPG went up but I am not sure if there is any truth to it.

SiR 09-05-2012 01:44 PM

you likely wont notice any change.

Driving habits, conditions and time of yr will be bigger factors in any mpg changes.
Its not like I hopped in and instantly banged off 100 more km per tank.

Even running shell vs other stations gas can effect mpg.


Overall mileage will stay the same between the two manifolds.

Eau_Rouge 09-05-2012 04:06 PM

I wasn't expecting mileage gains just didn't want to hear that mileage dropped significantly. If it stays approximately the same, then I'm happy.

1BADBMR 09-05-2012 04:16 PM

I've never considered a tune when I did my M50 manifold mod on my S52.
After the installation, I noticed a loss of torque down low, but I gained it all back on the top end! Great bang for buck imo, even w/o a tune

Alvin

T.Dot_E30 09-05-2012 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eau_Rouge (Post 1581073)
I wasn't expecting mileage gains just didn't want to hear that mileage dropped significantly. If it stays approximately the same, then I'm happy.

If your driving habits stay the same you won't notice any difference.

Of course if you start ringing the motor out more often to enjoy the top end power you will decrease your mileage, but that's pretty much a given.

doogee 09-05-2012 11:27 PM

Back when I just bought my 328is, it dynoed 198rwhp on a Dynojet with the only mod being an M50 Manifold. *th-up*

But cams and a tune took it to 220rwhp.

KIRASIR 09-06-2012 01:07 AM

I just did this swap two weeks ago.

My butt dyno didn't feel much difference in the low end. The top end seems to rev quicker with much smoother acceleration after 4k.

The mileage appears to be unchanged.

Eau_Rouge 09-06-2012 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doogee (Post 1581135)
Back when I just bought my 328is, it dynoed 198rwhp on a Dynojet with the only mod being an M50 Manifold. *th-up*

But cams and a tune took it to 220rwhp.

If this is the case, assuming a 15% driveline loss of power, then with cams and a tune, the engine puts out roughly 260hp at the crank.
Next question is why do some bother with an S52 swap, why not just go this route?
Are cams and a tune expensive?

sb_600 09-06-2012 12:37 PM

S52 cams are about $300-400 used, and a tune is in the $350 range as well.


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