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View Full Version : Who actually tracks their Bimmer?


FatDaddyBMW
01-19-2003, 04:04 AM
Just looking to see who all tracks their Bimmer instead of just driving the hell out of it on the street.

I was signed up for our local chapter's very first driver's school a couple of years ago (back then, my car had no modifications except a 3.25 diff and the Euro lights), but I had to back out at the last minute. Since then, I haven't had the time or the money to do a driver's school.

Has anyone been luckier than me?! :D

EMPOWERD
01-19-2003, 04:29 AM
I do, and have been since I bought it 8 years ago... i've done so many schools I can't keep track. I'm now instructing for various Driving Schools around the GTA. Here's a pic of my car on turn 5A @Mosport in race spec (no front bumper cover, headlight, bra added with 15" alloys with R Compounds -- not pretty at all*no-no*)

EMPOWERD
01-19-2003, 04:31 AM
This is another weekend with everything left on (turn1).... I was helping out instructing on the skidpad and managed to get a few free laps in during the school's lunch hour.

FatDaddyBMW
01-19-2003, 04:37 AM
I remember reading somewhere that you've had your car on the track. That's freaking awesome, given that you show the car, too. . . let's not mention the amount spent on the car! :D

I know a couple of e28 guys that have pristine cars and wouldn't DREAM of tracking the car. Me? Once I get the cash, that's where I'm going first. I don't see the point of having such a great handling car and not enjoying it above 5 or 6/10.

EMPOWERD
01-19-2003, 04:46 AM
haha, thanks man....

Actually, what happened is that I tracked my car right from day 1 of ownership... I was hooked and added only performance mods to make it quicker and handle better. I wasn't too much into looks except for a RDsport front spoiler and some black paint to mask the ugly chrome bumpers. When I did the full restoration I couldn't wait to get it on the track again with all the new-found power and roll cage... so I did and the stone chips were brutal! I had the entire front end repainted after the school and installed that 3M Armourguard stuff (AWSOME SHIT!*th-up*) over the Rieger bumper and hood edge. My friends talked me into showing the car once and I cleaned house... so I thought I could do both, but it was impossible to keep the car looking show-quality with track time.... so I made a decision to show it that year and track it (only) this year.

FatDaddyBMW
01-19-2003, 06:23 AM
3M Armourgard shit? What's that?

Is the Rieger kit you have fiberglass or ABS? I know an e28 guy that installed the BMP Euro conversion kit on his e28. That kit is made out of fiberglass, and he said it's flimsy as hell and would break soooo easily.

If you like that 3M stuff, then it must really work.

Of course, I'm not too worried about messing up my US-spec table-top bumpers ;)

330DTM
01-19-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by empowerd
I do, and have been since I bought it 8 years ago... i've done so many schools I can't keep track. I'm now instructing for various Driving Schools around the GTA. Here's a pic of my car on turn 5A @Mosport in race spec (no front bumper cover, headlight, bra added with 15" alloys with R Compounds -- not pretty at all*no-no*)

Hey Randy,
Got anymore close up pictures with this setup? Do you think you will visit any autocrosses at the Concorse this year with your E30 325e hybrid?
I'd love to see your car ripping the track at Mosport, Shannonville or even autocrossing. Even if I'm a spectator, I'd still get a thrill out of it!

GR8 Ride
01-19-2003, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by empowerd
I do, and have been since I bought it 8 years ago... i've done so many schools I can't keep track. I'm now instructing for various Driving Schools around the GTA. Here's a pic of my car on turn 5A @Mosport in race spec (no front bumper cover, headlight, bra added with 15" alloys with R Compounds -- not pretty at all*no-no*)

And the reason you don't come out to any BMW Club events is because.....????? You haven't been to one in over two years...

Didn't you instruct for Blake at the SAAB club at SMP in the fall? Why not start attending some BMW Club events again, and you could probably be instructing there before too long as well....

As to other events you've been instructing for, I wouldn't mind finding out who, as I'd like to get some more seat time for myself as well. (Damn, I'd hate to have to buy a Porsche just to instruct for them...they're pretty anal retentive about that stuff).


As to tracking cars, I built my car for that whole purpose. So while it's not as pretty as Randy's car, it is purpose built for racing. I went the E36 route however.

This is also a picture of Turn 5 at Mosport (with Mike Cole behind me).


Pat

GR8 Ride
01-19-2003, 01:40 PM
Another shot, through turn 9, chasing Peter's E36 M3 out of the way...



Pat

EMPOWERD
01-19-2003, 02:09 PM
Nice pic Pat, i like the difference in lean angles. I haven't been to any BMWCC events (at least participating) for a couple of reasons.. first being that 2001 was a "show" year for the car because of what I said on the post above... during that show year I managed to blow my motor (#6 piston --- bad tuning with boost and fuel) and I've been limping around on 5 cyl ever since. If you watch the video of me doing donuts and stuff, you'll notice some blue smoke exiting the exhaust. Anyways, last spring I opened the motor up to fix it and found pretty much the whole bottom end pooched... but I had already bought the Porsche too. Now I have 2 expensive projects on the go, and to tell you the truth, I'm really looking forward to the GT2, so the E30's been sitting idle for a while.

I started out with Blake and i've now got a contact with the Ferrari Club of Canada that might be needing me to instruct for them this year. I haven't approached Porsche yet, in due time I guess. There's been a bit of politics in the BMWCC that I'm not happy with (you know about it) so I don't think they'll be needing me since I don't get my car serviced at Raven:D. I'm always up for it, but I'm not about to kiss-ass for it either... not my style.

Brad, the 3M Armourguard is a clear film that comes in 4" x 6' sheets and glues to the paint on the front of your car. When applied properly it is almost transparent and unnoticable... it wards off nasty stone chips because they literally bounce off. All Rieger GTS kits are fiberglass (I bought mine from Rieger hoping it would be Urethane) The glass itself is actually quite strong and well made though... no complaints there. In my 2 years of driving the car THAT low, I never cracked it once.

Mike, sorry... no more pics at the moments. I think I might have some paper pics kicking around that I have to find and scan.

330DTM
01-19-2003, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by GR8 Ride
Another shot, through turn 9, chasing Peter's E36 M3 out of the way...



Pat

Pat,
did you eventually pass Peter or he was able to keep up the pressure?

ROB89M3
01-19-2003, 03:09 PM
Remember this discussion? (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2441&highlight=MOSPORT)

Anyways, I'll be doing more driving schools,hopefully this year,work permitting
(I work on Saturdays..) :(

GR8 Ride
01-19-2003, 04:34 PM
Originally posted by 328DTM
Pat,
did you eventually pass Peter or he was able to keep up the pressure?

Yeah. Actually, Peter went out and bought an entirely new suspension for his car after that weekend....

He was having a tough time being passed in an M3 by a lowly 325is....

With his new suspension, we're pretty much equal around Mosport...he's quicker on the straights, but I'll take him in every corner.

Before he put his coilovers on, I was about 3 seconds a lap faster than he was.


Pat

GR8 Ride
01-19-2003, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by empowerd
Nice pic Pat, i like the difference in lean angles. I haven't been to any BMWCC events (at least participating) for a couple of reasons.. first being that 2001 was a "show" year for the car because of what I said on the post above... during that show year I managed to blow my motor (#6 piston --- bad tuning with boost and fuel) and I've been limping around on 5 cyl ever since. If you watch the video of me doing donuts and stuff, you'll notice some blue smoke exiting the exhaust. Anyways, last spring I opened the motor up to fix it and found pretty much the whole bottom end pooched... but I had already bought the Porsche too. Now I have 2 expensive projects on the go, and to tell you the truth, I'm really looking forward to the GT2, so the E30's been sitting idle for a while.

I started out with Blake and i've now got a contact with the Ferrari Club of Canada that might be needing me to instruct for them this year. I haven't approached Porsche yet, in due time I guess. There's been a bit of politics in the BMWCC that I'm not happy with (you know about it) so I don't think they'll be needing me since I don't get my car serviced at Raven:D. I'm always up for it, but I'm not about to kiss-ass for it either... not my style.

Brad, the 3M Armourguard is a clear film that comes in 4" x 6' sheets and glues to the paint on the front of your car. When applied properly it is almost transparent and unnoticable... it wards off nasty stone chips because they literally bounce off. All Rieger GTS kits are fiberglass (I bought mine from Rieger hoping it would be Urethane) The glass itself is actually quite strong and well made though... no complaints there. In my 2 years of driving the car THAT low, I never cracked it once.

Mike, sorry... no more pics at the moments. I think I might have some paper pics kicking around that I have to find and scan.

Randy, any sources for the 3M Armourguard? I've been looking at something like that for my front end as well....my splitter is basically torn up from rocks.


Secondly, Derek Hanson is the guy to talk to about Ferrari events, though Blake can probably help you out there as well. I did a couple of Ferrari events last year, and I'm hoping to do their Mt Tremblant events this year. They are pretty easy days....

You have a Porsche now, so you'd be able to do those days...they are pretty specific in that sense.

I won't get into the politics here, but you and I need to grab a beer sometime and discuss those.

Also going to VIR this spring (early March) to instruct there, and quite possibly Mid-Ohio and the Glen as well. All BMW-CCA events...depending upon free time. There was a chance at going to Sebring this week for Winterfest as well, but I just had to pass on that for this year. Maybe next...

Some of the smaller organizations are always looking for instructors as well....Jordan et al were at the GTA Mustang Club event at Mosport....apparently that was quite a bit of fun (tongue in cheek on that comment).


Pat

330DTM
01-19-2003, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by GR8 Ride
Yeah. Actually, Peter went out and bought an entirely new suspension for his car after that weekend....

He was having a tough time being passed in an M3 by a lowly 325is....

With his new suspension, we're pretty much equal around Mosport...he's quicker on the straights, but I'll take him in every corner.

Before he put his coilovers on, I was about 3 seconds a lap faster than he was.


Pat

In that case, I guess it comes down to driver skill/experience + setup of the car? Or am I wrong?

Jon@Bimmersport
01-19-2003, 05:58 PM
wow...now i wanna have a track only car...i'd probably drive a civic hatch and keep it stock to build up a nice track car..but maybe in 15yrs! hehe..those pics are awesome..i cant wait till spring..i really want to come to mosport to see the real racing, and not the lapping events!

330DTM
01-19-2003, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by E46_lover
wow...now i wanna have a track only car...i'd probably drive a civic hatch and keep it stock to build up a nice track car..but maybe in 15yrs! hehe..those pics are awesome..i cant wait till spring..i really want to come to mosport to see the real racing, and not the lapping events!
Heh, I have an aquaintance who laps his Civic hatchback with a dropped in ITR engine (I believe). It's setup for the track as well so pretty much his car is track ready.
I don't know if you guys (i.e. Pat or Randy) know this guy but his name is KEN who's friends with John and his brother (Silver A4 Quattro putting about 300hp+ and the Techno Violet supercharged e36 M3), who also used to lap their cars at Mosport and Shannonville. He's an asian person and also owns an Acura RSX-Type S now. I was told that he's a quick driver and quite possibly even teach some driving schools?

All I remember two years ago, at Shannonville, when he drove his ITR with R compound tires and pretty much stock suspension (if memory serves me right), he was getting 1:14s or 1:17s on the Fabi track.

XmugenX
01-19-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by 328DTM
Heh, I have an aquaintance who laps his Civic hatchback with a dropped in ITR engine (I believe). It's setup for the track as well so pretty much his car is track ready.
I don't know if you guys (i.e. Pat or Randy) know this guy but his name is KEN who's friends with John and his brother (Silver A4 Quattro putting about 300hp+ and the Techno Violet supercharged e36 M3), who also used to lap their cars at Mosport and Shannonville. He's an asian person and also owns an Acura RSX-Type S now. I was told that he's a quick driver and quite possibly even teach some driving schools?

All I remember two years ago, at Shannonville, when he drove his ITR with R compound tires and pretty much stock suspension (if memory serves me right), he was getting 1:14s or 1:17s on the Fabi track.


I have track with him few times last year at Mosport, He is a fast and skilled driver, he is doing 1:37.xx at mosport full interior RSX-type S (I guess we should call it RSX-type R because he is using lots type R stuff on his car)

GR8 Ride
01-19-2003, 08:26 PM
I've seen the car, and he isn't doing 1:37s at Mosport. Big wing on the back of a black RSX-Type S?

Ran into him at a Dexter day or two...refused to let me by on the straights quite often, and would be holding Peter and I up.

Car does 1:42-1:45 at Mosport at best...this is in Summer of 2002. Maybe he's done something to it since, but not that I saw then. I think he hangs out with Alan Shek from Kennedy HiFi, or whatever it's called now.

Good driver though...ran into him again at a lapping day at SMP one time.

Lousy track courtesy though, and refuses to believe that anybody might be faster than him.


Pat

XmugenX
01-19-2003, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by GR8 Ride
I've seen the car, and he isn't doing 1:37s at Mosport. Big wing on the back of a black RSX-Type S?


Yup that's the guy I was talking about.

I have never time him before, But I believe he is doing high 1:3? and low 1:4? and 1:37s was what he said. Look there http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=299040

I never know he had lousy track courtesy, because I am too slow *uzi*

330DTM
01-19-2003, 11:35 PM
It's probably his car. Whow, never knew about the track courtousy though!

got torque?
01-21-2003, 12:19 PM
since I don't get my car serviced at Raven. I'm always up for it, but I'm not about to kiss-ass for it either... not my style.

I have to blow the whistle here:
This is a common misconception.

There are MANY instructors at the BMW Club who have never spent a dime at Raven Performance or Bavarian. I am one of them. I spent most of my track life beating up on BMW's with a Mustang and I was chosen to instruct.

Over the past few years, many Raven customers have become instructors, but you can't say they aren't fast or that they can't teach.

More to it than meets the eye.....

Jordan

EMPOWERD
01-21-2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by got torque?
I have to blow the whistle here:
This is a common misconception.

There are MANY instructors at the BMW Club who have never spent a dime at Raven Performance or Bavarian. I am one of them. I spent most of my track life beating up on BMW's with a Mustang and I was chosen to instruct.

Over the past few years, many Raven customers have become instructors, but you can't say they aren't fast or that they can't teach.

More to it than meets the eye.....

Jordan

I'm definitely gonna blow the whistle on what you said also. Either you don't know the politics going on (highly doubt it) or you just don't want to admit it.... there is a HIGH AMOUNT OF KISSING ASS required to get somewhere... not necessarily funding Raven's shop. There might be the odd exception, but i'm sure certain people *cough*cough* vouched for you Jordan... don't deny it (i'm not saying you can't drive). We'll get into this in more detail over a beer as Pat mentioned. Like you said.. more to it than meets the eye.

got torque?
01-21-2003, 01:43 PM
I guess that one of the downsides to having a father who instructed for 20 years is that people will always think that's the reason I'm instructing. It's an easy excuse for people who want to instruct but can't figure out how to get there. I'm used to it, even though it's false.

Politics are a fact of life- why do people think a car club is any different? Those who can figure them out can benefit- the rest will always complain that they're victims, or have been treated unfairly. That's life.

Jordan

addbhp
01-21-2003, 01:47 PM
I throw my experience in here as well, I like Randy have tracked my BMW since I've owned it, and regularly tracked my CRX before that, probably started in 93. Started with the BMW club 1st with Autocrosses, then moving on to the driving schools.

For 2 or 3 years finished in the top 3-5 in there Autocross series, and racked up a total of over 24 BMW Crystal glasses (their Trophies at the time). At their driving schools, did Mosport, Shannonville, Mt Tremblant. Also participated in the Saab school once and tried to do as many track days as we could find. Stopped doing the driving schools, when I became disappointed with a couple of instructors, my car, learning curve slowed, felt a higher competitive need, and got married and bought our first house.

The following year took to Solo1 (1999) where the competitive needs were felt, but again felt disappointed with the car. Rejoined Solo1 in 2001 and finished 1st in my class, and this year finished 2nd in my class by 0.079 of a point to Rob McCauley. Interesting thing about Solo 1 are the points calculations. In my 8 events this year, finished 1st 7 times, beating Rob every time, yet he still out scored me:confused: Not bitter, because we had a blast comparing times all year. Only down side of Solo1 is sometimes you don't get enough seat time, but where your out there you have to be on!

Also did 2 years of Go karting in there at the spec series in Hamilton.

Undecided at what will happen this year, as we have moved again, and my wallet can't keep up with my hobby and needs:)

Will definitely do some track days, and now my son wants to do the driving schools, so we'll see what the spring brings.

My suggestion would be to start with something your comfortable with and build on that.

Bob Loblaw
01-21-2003, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by ROB89M3
Remember this discussion? (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=2441&highlight=MOSPORT)



Huh??? Where are all your posts in that thread??

GR8 Ride
01-21-2003, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by empowerd
I'm definitely gonna blow the whistle on what you said also. Either you don't know the politics going on (highly doubt it) or you just don't want to admit it.... there is a HIGH AMOUNT OF KISSING ASS required to get somewhere... not necessarily funding Raven's shop. There might be the odd exception, but i'm sure certain people *cough*cough* vouched for you Jordan... don't deny it (i'm not saying you can't drive). We'll get into this in more detail over a beer as Pat mentioned. Like you said.. more to it than meets the eye.

Driving ability though isn't a general qualification towards instructing ability. There are some guys who are good instructors with the BMW Club, and are not great drivers. There are also fast instructors who aren't good instructors, and also fast A Group students who will NEVER be instructors, regardless of how quickly they drive, and how much they want to be instructors.

As to Jordan's situation, it has nothing to do with his father, and everything to do with his own ability to teach, as well as drive.

And while every club out there has some level of politics in it, Raven itself doesn't play a part in filling the pipeline with instructors. People ended up being instructors in the past couple of years who have had little if anything to do with Raven, and certainly haven't funded the shop. You'll have to give John more credit than that.

There is a lot more to the selection process than one person, and no one person can make or break someone from becoming an instructor.

Also, it's a LOT more work than most people believe...if you're doing it for the free track time, it's simply not worth the effort. You have to want to teach something to someone, otherwise time spent in the passenger seat is a frustrating, and potentially frightening experience.

There is a huge difference between wanting to be an instructor, and wanting to instruct. Try going to a US school sometime, and you'll see what I mean.


Pat

ROB89M3
01-21-2003, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Bob Loblaw
Huh??? Where are all your posts in that thread??

Most of my posts were erased from the forum...(Look at my post count on the left ):confused:

Kal
01-21-2003, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by ROB89M3
Most of my posts were erased from the forum...(Look at my post count on the left ):confused:


lol
hahahahahahahhahahahahaahahaha

omg that is jokes

y did they do that??

lol hahahahahah that is some funny shit though:D :D :D :D

thinair
01-22-2003, 07:58 PM
Well, I'll honestly say I bought my car with tracking it in mind, but I haven't had the chance to take it to the track yet. I'm a newb and want to learn how to drive my car at it's (and my) limits. Anyone can drive a car to it's limits (and past them), but I feel the key is getting to the limit and staying there.

I basically plan on doing at least one driving school this year and a few auto-x's. As far as racing at Mosport and such tracks, I'd like to go lapping one day, but not race.

M3ntal Kev
02-21-2003, 05:45 AM
I make it out to the track whenever I can... ;)

I'm hoping to see Rob out there again this year...

ROB89M3
02-21-2003, 11:39 AM
I'm gonna be out there is April ! *th-up*
Mosport is awesome ! Can't wait...

Did anyone else here sign up yet ?

Kayaalp
03-05-2003, 08:22 PM
Hey guys,

I was at Tremblant last May with the NER-PCA and there was ice and freezing rain all over the place. Turn 6 was a skating rink. Won't Mosport be even worse in April? I don't mind a bit of rain, but I don't want to be driving on snow or ice. I suspect that's why people are a little hesitant to sign up for this event.

Emre

got torque?
03-06-2003, 11:39 AM
No. The BMWCC has held April events at Mosport for about 20 years now. It can be cold and wet but there is never snow or ice.

Tremblant is a little different geographically than Mosport....and freezing rain in May anyplace is a complete fluke. One incident does not equal a trend.

Anybody who hasn't signed up by now will not be attending anyway, unless they get in at the last minute off the waiting list.

GT?

BimmiN
03-18-2003, 08:01 PM
I have driver training this weekend. It is Thusday and Friday night in a class... then all day Saturday is spent at the track.
It is my first driver training.... but I am hoping to do Auto-X at least every couple weeks after that. :D