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View Full Version : New laws and fast cars.


AMG_POWER
11-12-2007, 05:59 PM
Me and my buddy were talking about it couple days ago, Is there a point of owning a fast car nowadays? I mean Cars are getting stupid fast and laws are getting Stupid strict. My buddy has 645 and he got caught overtaking a truck with gravel on 401 148km/h, that was before 50km over bs tho... now if it would be an m5/6 he would probably be going 178!

What do you think?

static
11-12-2007, 06:18 PM
enjoying fast cars safely must be done in controlled environment
public roads are not controlled environment

draw your conclusions and pick one:
- not safe
- not fun
- not on public road

330ci05
11-12-2007, 06:23 PM
thats why there are tracks, i know they are a loong drive from T.O but what can you do, and plus they are alot more fun then racing trunks on 401 lol.....

Soldo
11-12-2007, 11:28 PM
I know exactly what you are saying. Theres no way near enough track time/space for the amount of high powered cars that are on the road now a days.

It really bugs me that everyone tries to cry that these laws are good for "SAFETY" but at the same time if they were REALLY concerned about peoples safety why not govern cars at 120km/h rather than 210km/h since they're already putting a limiter on it.

It's just a cash grab, and nothing more. It's really pointless having a nice cars these days!

craz azn
11-12-2007, 11:51 PM
^^ +1

BigD
11-13-2007, 12:01 AM
thats why there are tracks, i know they are a loong drive from T.O but what can you do, and plus they are alot more fun then racing trunks on 401 lol.....

They're not a loong way from TO. I'm so tired of that excuse. Is Oshawa REALLY so far? The problem is that track days are not free, open lapping isn't always available and it requires time. So having said that, how many track days even the most dedicated addict can attend in a year (given winters)? A dozen? Hell, go every weekend, 52. The problem is that it still leaves like 250 days of the year that you have to live with the car in mundane circumstances like gridlock and long, tiring drives. Is it enough then, to justify having a car that can do pretty damn well for those 52 weekends, hitting 200++ in the straights and pulling face-bending G's in the turns, when the qualities that made it able to do that, are the very same things that will make it very very annoying to live with for the rest of the time?

From pretty extensive personal experience (some of you remember my M5), I have come to the conclusion that the answer is no.

You need a car for the non-track days that you leave the **** alone. Mine's hardly slow with the 4.7 V8 but it's not gonna break any speed records and that's perfectly fine with me. If I need to pass someone, I blow by them. If I need to tow my track car, I barely feel it. And for the daily commute or long cruises, it's an amazingly relaxing and comfortable car to be in.

Then for those rare weekends, I have the cramped, light little rocket. I also don't have to worry if my latest greatest mod craps out on the track, and panic to see if I can get it working by Monday cause I need it to get me to work.

I don't claim to have all the answers but I can say that I've lived it both ways and I really really like it this way better.

Furious
11-13-2007, 12:58 AM
Is Oshawa REALLY so far? .

Where's Oshawa?

p.s- its more like bowmanville

saix
11-13-2007, 01:05 AM
Why even make a car that can go over 65mph?

bmdbley'sBro
11-13-2007, 03:22 AM
It's just a cash grab, and nothing more. It's really pointless having a nice cars these days!

cash grab to the tune of $2.2 million plus at the min $2k fine.
1100+ cars seized in ontario.

They're not a loong way from TO. I'm so tired of that excuse. Is Oshawa REALLY so far? The problem is that track days are not free, open lapping isn't always available and it requires time. So having said that, how many track days even the most dedicated addict can attend in a year (given winters)? A dozen? Hell, go every weekend, 52. The problem is that it still leaves like 250 days of the year that you have to live with the car in mundane circumstances like gridlock and long, tiring drives. Is it enough then, to justify having a car that can do pretty damn well for those 52 weekends, hitting 200++ in the straights and pulling face-bending G's in the turns, when the qualities that made it able to do that, are the very same things that will make it very very annoying to live with for the rest of the time?

From pretty extensive personal experience (some of you remember my M5), I have come to the conclusion that the answer is no.

You need a car for the non-track days that you leave the **** alone. Mine's hardly slow with the 4.7 V8 but it's not gonna break any speed records and that's perfectly fine with me. If I need to pass someone, I blow by them. If I need to tow my track car, I barely feel it. And for the daily commute or long cruises, it's an amazingly relaxing and comfortable car to be in.

Then for those rare weekends, I have the cramped, light little rocket. I also don't have to worry if my latest greatest mod craps out on the track, and panic to see if I can get it working by Monday cause I need it to get me to work.

I don't claim to have all the answers but I can say that I've lived it both ways and I really really like it this way better.
wait man thats deep..

so what your saying is unless you can afford.

-all your bills food cost of living, etc
-a gas guzzling daily tow vehicle.
-a car trailer
-and a track car.

we should all just own 3 cylinder geo's with 12" wheels :confused:

M3ti Compact
11-13-2007, 10:08 AM
What's funny is when I was in Germany, I was expecting to see horrendeous amounts of high powered German machinery pounding the Autobahn. To my surprise, the clear majority were low powered diesels. I maybe saw two 335i's, 2 M3's, one Audi S (an S6) and absolutely no Mercedes AMG models. Everyone else had diesels...seriously, a gas powered 318 would probably hold it's own to the majority of cars on the autobahn. So, to answer the original question, comming from the land of no speed limits, yes, we in general drive cars that have disgustingly more power than they need.

BigD
11-13-2007, 10:47 AM
so what your saying is unless you can afford.

-all your bills food cost of living, etc
-a gas guzzling daily tow vehicle.
-a car trailer
-and a track car.

we should all just own 3 cylinder geo's with 12" wheels :confused:

No, I'm saying what I said. You need one car to leave the **** alone for daily driving, and one that you can play with at the track, that's arbitrarily fast and stiff. Buying a big gas guzzler that can also tow my track toy was a personal choice. The point was that it'll never see any mods beyond expensive oil, tires and windshield wipers, and it never sees more than limit+15.

propr'one
11-13-2007, 12:33 PM
no, there is no point in owning a high powered car. I scrapped my cams project, i was even toying with the idea of a turbo before the new law came out. Decided against everything.


So right now my car is a stock 328 + underdrive pullies (do barely anything), software (does barely more than pullies), and a 3.38 LSD which does a lot.

So power wise my car is still very slow. Having said that, the suspension/braking/appearance mods i've done are still very practical on the street.


with such rediculous limits, there's no point in trying to make a non-track specific car quick. I'm debating getting an e46 in the near future. If i do, it will probably be a 323. No point in power now.


On a sidenote, i was driving my RUF GT3-RS (89 civic SI, stock) back from ottawa yesterday. EVERYONE on the highway was doing at LEAST 140 (401 westbound, anywhere from kingston to oshawa). I even saw those pre-built homes that they transport via tractor trailer being hauled at ~135. Took the honda up to about 180 before i got scurred of police. Overall, i agree with everyone, owning a 500HP car is pretty pointless. Ontop of everything, if you own a 500Hp car, how often are you going to use that power a season?
the $/reward ratio sucks.

BMW_7
11-13-2007, 02:35 PM
Har har har!!!! I sense an apocalypse!

10 years from now the 318i's will be going up in price and eclipsing all your fancey M3's and 645's ! har har har

1BADBMR
11-13-2007, 02:50 PM
Take it to the track

BMW_7
11-13-2007, 03:09 PM
On a sidenote, i was driving my RUF GT3-RS (89 civic SI, stock) back from ottawa yesterday. EVERYONE on the highway was doing at LEAST 140 (401 westbound, anywhere from kingston to oshawa). I even saw those pre-built homes that they transport via tractor trailer being hauled at ~135. Took the honda up to about 180 before i got scurred of police. Overall, i agree with everyone, owning a 500HP car is pretty pointless. Ontop of everything, if you own a 500Hp car, how often are you going to use that power a season?
the $/reward ratio sucks.

Here is a small sample of cars with a good $/reward ratio:

http://www.hohpe.com/Gregor/Events/PACarShow/Mini.jpg

http://www.scda1.com/images/miata-may07.jpg

http://www.dragtimes.com/images/9610-2000-Honda-S2000.jpg

http://www.westerndriver.com/images/ArticlePictures/600/2006392612RoundTailAlfaSpider.jpg

http://www.bavariacars.com.au/user_files/motor/EZ_2002.JPG

http://www.ltv-vwc.org.uk/wheelspin/ws_Oct_2001/Golf_GTI.jpg

http://www.maxrev.net/Icons/aboutme/fb8cc9ee.jpg

http://forzamotorsport.net/NR/rdonlyres/33769CE8-6EA3-457A-951E-B849254A2680/7698/davesZ6frontleft2better.jpg

http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop-460x331/dsc06612%5B1%5D_8w.jpg

http://www.maserati.org.au/images/EventPhotos/Targa00/T00_644B_MazdaRX7.jpg

Axxe
11-13-2007, 03:14 PM
LOL, no e30 in that?

BMW_7
11-13-2007, 03:23 PM
There is more to the world than BMW, u know..............

although the only E30 I'd put on would be the m3. And IMO it's too high up in $/fun ratio

Axxe
11-13-2007, 03:26 PM
There is more to the world than BMW, u know..............

although the only E30 I'd put on would be the m3. And IMO it's too high up in $/fun ratio

More to the world than BMW? NO WAI!! Seriously though, the 2002 is there already, just wanted to bust your crabs up.


Um, a non-m e30 is just as much fun. Not a huge difference other than the body and a pesky gutless 4 banger. Also VERY high $$$.

Blades
11-13-2007, 03:47 PM
Nothing would make me more happy then moving out of this country but its not easy to just start new somewhere.

This government is pure cash grab .. look at what there doing at the boarder .. there checking everyones trunks so they have to pay the taxes on items they bought..

look at when you buy a used car .. how you have to pay taxes on it .. but everytime you sell it someone gets taxed on it everytime .. wtf?!?! .. its used.

when you get a paycheck your taxed .. when you buy something with that paycheck your taxed again .. the guy selling you the stuff is taxed as well.

BMW_7
11-13-2007, 03:49 PM
Nothing would make me more happy then moving out of this country but its not easy to just start new somewhere.

This government is pure cash grab .. look at what there doing at the boarder .. there checking everyones trunks so they have to pay the taxes on items they bought..

look at when you buy a used car .. how you have to pay taxes on it .. but everytime you sell it someone gets taxed on it everytime .. wtf?!?! .. its used.

when you get a paycheck your taxed .. when you buy something with that paycheck your taxed again .. the guy selling you the stuff is taxed as well.

Well you can always move to Malaysia where if you want a BMW you will have to pay a 500% tax

Souvrain
11-13-2007, 04:01 PM
just dont do speed on the highway . **** .. thats it there is plenty of other side road with 1 or 2 cars per hour .. with no cops .. just gun it there or go home wtf CONTROL YOUR SELF !

jstalin
11-13-2007, 04:17 PM
when you get a paycheck your taxed .. when you buy something with that paycheck your taxed again .. the guy selling you the stuff is taxed as well.

Somebody's got to pay for the roads you drive on, and the hospitals and schools you use.

Every country has taxes, you can never escape them

bmwm5lover
11-13-2007, 04:51 PM
Refer to the quote in my signature;
You may go Fast, But I can go Anywhere- Proud 4WD Driver.
That is y new mentality, but I do enjoy pushing the T5 to its limits every once in a while.

BigD
11-13-2007, 04:56 PM
Somebody's got to pay for the roads you drive on, and the hospitals and schools you use.

Every country has taxes, you can never escape them

Not all. The ones with shitty roads, hospitals and schools have low taxes.

Arash
11-13-2007, 06:57 PM
****! somebody ban his bitchass for posting the vagina picture, I'm sitting beside the printers and there's like a lineup people right behind me, looked like I'm browsing vagina forums or something. *mumble*

Betray
11-14-2007, 10:44 PM
its all about 0-100 in a 50, and on highway its all about 90-150 :D

Blades
11-14-2007, 11:10 PM
Well you can always move to Malaysia where if you want a BMW you will have to pay a 500% tax

or move to thailand and live like king by just selling my bmw here.

Axxe
11-14-2007, 11:10 PM
or move to thailand and live like king by just selling my bmw here.

Government collects the tax, not the seller.

Blades
11-14-2007, 11:30 PM
Somebody's got to pay for the roads you drive on, and the hospitals and schools you use.

Every country has taxes, you can never escape them

our roads and hospitals suck compared to some second world countries

kamus
11-14-2007, 11:49 PM
The law is against speed. Not acceleration. And I tend to think it's the acceleration that's exciting, not ultimately the speed. Make the most of the ramps. Enjoy the 50 to 120 blast on the banked curve. Then get off at the next one and do it again. Just don't break traction or they'll hit you with stunt driving :D

Arash
11-14-2007, 11:53 PM
^^ but they can get u for stuntin if you do that

kamus
11-14-2007, 11:57 PM
only if you break traction, or look careless. Stay within the lane markings and don't go over 116, and merge carefully - remembering to signal. What can they say?

Axxe
11-15-2007, 12:13 AM
only if you break traction, or look careless. Stay within the lane markings and don't go over 116, and merge carefully - remembering to signal. What can they say?

"Unnecessary display of speed"
"DUI"
"Careless"
"Reckless"
"Anything the cop feels like slapping you with"

kamus
11-15-2007, 12:27 AM
i admit i prolly just feel lucky cos all my points finally went away this month. Since I brought up ramps - anyone know what the yellow speed limit signs actually mean? I always assumed they were warning/advisory signs for all vehicles including big trucks.. i tend to take ramps at least double the speed on yellow signs - traffic permitting.

kamus
11-15-2007, 12:37 AM
^don't answer that - i just found the thread from 2 days ago :D

AceOfSpades
11-15-2007, 11:23 AM
^don't answer that - i just found the thread from 2 days ago :D

:D :D

330ci05
11-15-2007, 09:56 PM
They're not a loong way from TO. I'm so tired of that excuse. Is Oshawa REALLY so far? .

where is this one??

all the ones i know are 150+km ONEWAY!!!*thmbsdwn*

denisemichel
11-16-2007, 09:39 AM
lol dumb rules!

Sa///M3
11-16-2007, 01:00 PM
where is this one??

all the ones i know are 150+km ONEWAY!!!*thmbsdwn*
He's talking about mosport -- it's about the same length to Cayuga, but east.

bmdbley'sBro
11-16-2007, 01:40 PM
-

everybody who's all 'take it to the track'

read this

Just last sunday, as I was in a Bell Expressvu store, I was "stopped" by a OPP.
When I came out to find out what was up,
I was informed that I had a "race prepared" motorcycle which is illegal for the street now.
He let me off, with a warning,(used his discretionary power) after about a 20min conversation.

I was very surprised to find out that he had info, (that was correct),
as to dates and tracks that my motorcycle and I were at trackdays.

my drz400sm , is "modified for race use" because of the safety wiring I have done, and it is running straight water, clearly visible in the overflow container.- Thats it for mods, as it was on that day,- it was stock, has turn signals, lights, mirrors, etc.

He did NOT ticket me or sieze my vehicle, after he received my word that I would remove the offending material. He did originally want me to take the wire off on the spot, but I said I didnt have any tools on me.

I also feel that his confusion over this being a "dirtbike", and his not knowing where mosport or cayuga were, may have helped, as I may have insinuated that maybe the offroad "events were dirt related.(which may seem less- "deadly" than roadracing on tarmac)

So dont be too worried, just be calm and reasonable when you are confronted, and unless you are speeding, maybe you will get a second chance like I did.

Also, if you are going to any trackdays, removing your plate, and covering up your registration number, would be advisable. (apparently, they are serious about removing "race vehicles" from our streets)

I also have two different gsxr's that I have trackdayed this year, I am going to be removeing all safety wire, and putting engine ice back in them, as I don't want to risk, losing either of them.

Next year, I will be removing my plates, etc, before going on trackdays, this was too close a call.
http://www.cmgonline.com/cgi-bin/soapbox/index.cgi?read=138356


so it would appear that 'doing the right thing' 'taking it to the track'
now gets you survailed & entered into a database of people that need to be
'targeted' & 'talked to or nailed' months later while on the street minding their own biz.

any1 find it disturbing that the law is devoting resources to survailing participants of motorsports??
and creating a database of them?? *thmbsdwn*

Nascar318is
11-16-2007, 04:29 PM
look at when you buy a used car .. how you have to pay taxes on it .. but everytime you sell it someone gets taxed on it everytime .. wtf?!?! .. its used.

when you get a paycheck your taxed .. when you buy something with that paycheck your taxed again .. the guy selling you the stuff is taxed as well.

And when you buy a car and say you pay $1000 for it, then the province says well the black book value is $3500 so you pay tax on the $3500 instead of the $1000.. that's madning!

Or when you buy a house, same thing your stupid welcome tax, move across the street 3 months later and you'll pay your welcome tax again.

The best is... You earn a pay, get taxed on it, then you buy RRSP's with what's left over then when you pull your RRSP's you get taxed again(Double Dipping taxes).

Sounds like Quebec, say you buy a 24 of pop for $6.99 then add the $1.20 deposit, Take that amount $8.19 add the provincial tax, get a final number and then add the federal tax on top of that. So you get tax on tax and get taxed on deposit.WTF??

1BADRIDE
11-16-2007, 06:40 PM
The best is... You earn a pay, get taxed on it, then you buy RRSP's with what's left over then when you pull your RRSP's you get taxed again(Double Dipping taxes).

^^ Dude, get a new accountant IMMEDIATELY. :D

Nascar318is
11-16-2007, 06:43 PM
I wish it was that easy. Unfortunatly everyone pays taxes on there RRSP's it's another source of income.

Old_School
11-16-2007, 09:40 PM
RRSPs are a tax deferment, not "tax free." It means you don't pay tax now, but you will when you either withdraw the money, or convert to a RIF.

As for tracks, I suspect the police have required that tracks provide access to their database of clients. As a result, you could get checked out for non-street legal mods. I've never heard of the situation in the post above happening before though, so I doubt it's common. Probably happens to heavily modified rice more than Bimmers.