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ROB89M3
12-08-2002, 08:39 PM
Looks like I will be getting this setup.... :eek:
Instant +30 hp..No more AFM !*th-up*

EMPOWERD
12-08-2002, 09:22 PM
30HP!!!???? Haha, man you're ignorant.

Let me guess, your intake filter gave you 40HP?

hahaha/:rolleyes:






why don't you dyno your wood now, then install your Alpha N system and we'll see what power gain it really gives you.

So according to you, your car should have 290hp?

260hp + 30hp

wow, you should give it to BMW werkes team so they can research how easy it was for you to get that power instead of dumping all that money into their race cars for no reason.:rolleyes:

Jon@Bimmersport
12-08-2002, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by empowerd
So according to you, your car should have 290hp?

260hp + 30hp

hey you can count! haha j/k buddy...rob, do what randy said..dyno your car now, and then after you install it to see how much it actually adds...dont be one of those magazine tuners...like how they say those wires add 3hp, and an intake can add up to 12hp..

ROB89M3
12-08-2002, 10:56 PM
Randy,that's what people who have the kit installed are claiming.
The kit runs for about $3000 CAD. Don't you think that maybe for that amount of money it will give some hp?

Remember,the DTM M3's ran about 375 hp...all naturally aspirated.

I'm not saying that the Alpha N/CF intake will give my engine 30 hp,but ditching the restrictive AFM and remapping the fuel,will boost hp ratings for sure. How much, I don't know. That will be determined once all the fine tuning of the system is worked out.But for $3000,it should boost the ratings,don't you think?
Also,have you ever heard this thing? It sounds amazing ! I heard video clips of an M3 with this setup.

There is still alotta research left to be done at this point in time.

330DTM
12-08-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by E46_lover


hey you can count! haha j/k buddy...rob, do what randy said..dyno your car now, and then after you install it to see how much it actually adds...dont be one of those magazine tuners...like how they say those wires add 3hp, and an intake can add up to 12hp..

Hah, that depends which magazine you're talking about e46_lover. In the case of European Car of the Project M3, Pablo is not BS'ing anything in terms of the gains he gets on his car :P

Anyways ROB!!! I've heard what it sounds like from your previous video posts and I must say I'm dying to hear it from your car especially in person for once! But Rob, dyno is the key. How do you know if your car is running fine, i.e air fuel throughout the rev band? You want to make sure that your car runs properly in which you won't know unless you dyno it. It's hard to say that you'll get a 30hp gain from that but I betcha a Penny ($0.01 CDN) that you'll get 15hp increase at the most... :P deal?

ROB89M3
12-08-2002, 11:25 PM
One of the benefits of this module (Alpha-N) is that you can use any usual PC ( laptop ) with windows on it.
The program shows the air/fuel mappings on it. It will allow for fine tuning the engine.

You can download the PC-software from this link and try it:

http://www.maxx-automotive.com/ftp/alpha_n.zip



:)

PS: HERE'S A 30 MINUTE DTM VIDEO ! LISTEN TO THE ENGINE SOUNDS..



*Save target as* (http://www.socalaudiclub.com/videos/dtm_1989.avi)

330DTM
12-08-2002, 11:40 PM
Interesting technology, hopefully the computer you're using won't have a virus in it as you upload the data to the module *shiner* jokes!

But still, dyno it when you get the chance just to double check!

Good thing I got vids of what your car sounds like with the stock Intake. heh...next time I got to get some footage w/the new intake.

Jon@Bimmersport
12-09-2002, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by 328DTM


Hah, that depends which magazine you're talking about e46_lover. In the case of European Car of the Project M3, Pablo is not BS'ing anything in terms of the gains he gets on his car

import tuner baby!! lol

mkgino
12-09-2002, 11:39 AM
I would love to see dyno results from Rob's car, what do you say Rob??

E30 Stu
12-10-2002, 01:15 AM
Randy-

Alpha N setups are seriously responsible for about 20hp on a slightly modified 2.3. Given a built 2.5 bottomend with cams, I think 25-30hp would be absolutely possible.

M50E30
12-10-2002, 01:40 AM
Originally posted by empowerd
why don't you dyno your wood now, then install your Alpha N system and we'll see what power gain it really gives you.

Well proof is in the pudding...but we know Rob will not drive his car to a dyno anytime soon. So get a friggin' flat bed and dyno the damn car. I'm shure Randy can hook you up.

For anyone that hasn't been on here long...Rob likes to talk the talk but not walk the walk (thats why he gets a pissy when Randy and I bug him...especially when it comes to dyno time for his car).

330DTM
12-10-2002, 03:04 AM
I see dyno as an important utility if you're serious about performance.

It can't kill your car right? It's a good measurement. Heck I'd dyno my parents' 2003 Corolla LE if I actaully owned that car! heh. Good start for reference point to dyno your car before mods and dyno as you go along or after you slap on all the goodies and then it's time for fine tuning.

It's like going to the doctor and getting a phsyical checkup! Go for it Rob, please! :) :) :)

ROB89M3
12-10-2002, 03:12 AM
Guys, I don't know if this setup is gonna be a reality yet.
It is $3000 CAD out of my pocket...:(

I am also doing some extensive research still along with Raven Inc. They are also looking into making their own "piggyback" systems and using these Carbon fibre intake. It's not something that will happen overnight...

I am also worried about how reliable this syestem will be in the future.. .. I am wondering who would know how to tune/maintain my car with this system in the future.What happens if a peice/part of this system fails?? E30 M3 parts are rare and pricey,imagine these parts....:eek:

All in all, time and thought will lead me to my decision,sometime in the spring.

As far as dynoing the car....Sure I will at somepoint.
Maybe we can organize that maXbimmer dyno day again.

mkgino
12-10-2002, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by ROB89M3
Guys, I don't know if this setup is gonna be a reality yet.
It is $3000 CAD out of my pocket...:(

I am also doing some extensive research still along with Raven Inc. They are also looking into making their own "piggyback" systems and using these Carbon fibre intake. It's not something that will happen overnight...

I am also worried about how reliable this syestem will be in the future.. .. I am wondering who would know how to tune/maintain my car with this system in the future.What happens if a peice/part of this system fails?? E30 M3 parts are rare and pricey,imagine these parts....:eek:

All in all, time and thought will lead me to my decision,sometime in the spring.

As far as dynoing the car....Sure I will at somepoint.
Maybe we can organize that maXbimmer dyno day again.

A dyno day is a good idea, I would love to do that. But why the heck is it so expensive to dyno a car??

Jon@Bimmersport
12-10-2002, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by mkgino


A dyno day is a good idea, I would love to do that. But why the heck is it so expensive to dyno a car??

well, lets see..where can you dyno a car and get it tuned? only at shops with a dyno...now the shops with a dyno know they are one of few who have em...so they jack up the price..

mkgino
12-10-2002, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by E46_lover


well, lets see..where can you dyno a car and get it tuned? only at shops with a dyno...now the shops with a dyno know they are one of few who have em...so they jack up the price..

Wow an aspiring economist. Anyway, I would like to do a dyno day, that would be fun

GR8 Ride
12-10-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by empowerd
30HP!!!???? Haha, man you're ignorant.

Let me guess, your intake filter gave you 40HP?

hahaha/:rolleyes:






why don't you dyno your wood now, then install your Alpha N system and we'll see what power gain it really gives you.

So according to you, your car should have 290hp?

260hp + 30hp

wow, you should give it to BMW werkes team so they can research how easy it was for you to get that power instead of dumping all that money into their race cars for no reason.:rolleyes:

Actually, Randy, the Alpha-N intake does provide a fairly significant boost in HP. It's not just a CAI, but rather a complete engine management setup.

Mike Booker is running it on his car, and he's getting a solid 300+ HP out of a 2.5L stroker motor.

However, there are a couple of MAJOR drawbacks to the Alpha-N system. One, it uses TPS and RPMs ONLY to map your fuel requirements. So it's very easy to lean out a cylinder, and burn a piston or valves. It really reduces the lifespan of the motor to a couple of hundred hours at best, due to flaky air fuel ratios you'll get.

Mike's running an exhaust gas temp sensor downstream, and shuts his car down if that gauge spikes at all (high exhaust gas temps can indicate a lean condition in a cylinder). A leaner A/F mixture will generate more power (which is how the Alpha-N system works), but also risks burning pistons up.

Without a MAF, the engine really has no idea of how much air is coming in; it can only *guess*, and then add fuel to match it. Often, (particularly on cool days), it can easily guess low, and suddenly *boom*!

I'm surprised Rob would want to put this on a street driven car.

Pat

ROB89M3
12-11-2002, 12:07 AM
Pat, I'm waiting to see what John(Raven) finds out about the motec system. It's not a "piggy-back" system like the Alpha-N unit,but a true "stand alone" system.

We shall wait and see what happens......
:)

EMPOWERD
12-11-2002, 10:53 AM
Pat, I know EXACTLY what the Alpha N system is.... Booker has A LOT more work to his stroker than our best dreamer Rob... hell, his motor costs more than Rob's entire car! THAT's why he's putting down that HP. Rob *thinks* he's (got the ** from you, LOL) getting 260hp from his lump already! plus another 30HP just like that from the Alpha N... HAHAHA, what a dreamer. You're lucky to have 250 WITH the Alpha N. But, since John is gonna install it, we'll never find out because it's blow up before it even reaches the dyno.

Motec? HAHA, I had that system priced out for my GT2. Do you have any idea what it costs? Let me put it this way, first sell your car so you can afford it, then buy it and put it on your shelf at home so you can save up for an E30 M3.

GR8 Ride
12-11-2002, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by empowerd
Pat, I know EXACTLY what the Alpha N system is.... Booker has A LOT more work to his stroker than our best dreamer Rob... hell, his motor costs more than Rob's entire car! THAT's why he's putting down that HP. Rob *thinks* he's (got the ** from you, LOL) getting 260hp from his lump already! plus another 30HP just like that from the Alpha N... HAHAHA, what a dreamer. You're lucky to have 250 WITH the Alpha N. But, since John is gonna install it, we'll never find out because it's blow up before it even reaches the dyno.

Motec? HAHA, I had that system priced out for my GT2. Do you have any idea what it costs? Let me put it this way, first sell your car so you can afford it, then buy it and put it on your shelf at home so you can save up for an E30 M3.

Well, I agree in the sense that Rob's car probably isnt' putting anymore than 240 HP down at the crank, so the Alpha-N isn't likely to get him much more than 260-270 HP max. The biggest problem with that is how much damage can be done to an engine running the Alpha-N intake; it's simply not worth the risk unless you're running a sponsored car (which Mike is).


Pat

ROB89M3
12-11-2002, 06:10 PM
Point taken guys .....*th-up*

I will not do this if I feel it will harm the reliability in any way.
Although many people in europe as well as the U.S have this system and use their cars as daily drivers......

:

HANDBLT
12-12-2002, 01:23 AM
Mike's running an exhaust gas temp sensor downstream, and shuts his car down if that gauge spikes at all (high exhaust gas temps can indicate a lean condition in a cylinder). A leaner A/F mixture will generate more power (which is how the Alpha-N system works), but also risks burning pistons up.


A leaner A/F will NOT generate more power. A richer A/F will generate more power. Remember that you want the car around 14.7 (stoich) at cruise and light accel. You want the car (S14) around 12.5-13.2 for max power. If you've ever seen a Dyno graph with the 2D A/F line across the bottom, the A/F should start off fiarly lean (14-15) and then richen all the way to redline. You really want it too rich near redline because it keeps the cylinders cooler.

30hp is not out of the question with the right tuning. If you have a stand alone WBO2 and a way to adjust the timing along with the A/F, +30hp is possible. There is a guy who has documented proof of 50+ hp on a US2.3l with just cams and a custom chip, all with the AFM.

I got 25hp just from the Split Sec MAF, and didn't even get it fully tuned. Now this setup is still restricted by the airbox and the MAF itself, so +30hp is very attainable with the Alpha-N. The lean problems with the A-N system can easily be avoided with a MAP compensation.

The new AFM/Link will have MAP and is being released after Xmas just for the S14. This setup with the right install and tuning will yeild over 30+hp, but you have to know the tricks of the trade.

Tony

I have 284/276 cams in my 2.3l and I will

HANDBLT
12-12-2002, 01:26 AM
Sorry I forgot to finish my thought. I have 284/276 cams in my US2.3l and will be installing one of these systems very soon. I also have a stand alone WBO2 system so I can do the tuning myself. The only thing I don't have access to is a custom chip tuner that knows what they are doing. This would yield some serious gains.

T

MAXX
12-12-2002, 06:26 AM
I did some Alpha-N installes and we checked the horses before the change and after.

- 2,3L 195hp. just Alpha-N plus.
AFM replaced by a plain hose.
Original cams.
+5..10hp. Below 5000rpm no significant changes.

- 2,3L 195hp. Alpha-N plus.
A carnbon fiber plenum (the cap one, not the DTM thing).
Original cams.
+10..15hp. Significant gain above 7000rpm.

- 2,3L 195hp. Alpha-N plus (the kit above).
with DTM Airbox.
Original cams.
+10..20hp. More torque over the entire rev.band.
Significant gain above 7000rpm.

- 2,3L DTM setup. 300/280cams.
11,5/1.
46 throttles (!!!the small ones)
Alpha-N plus (the kit above).
with DTM Airbox.
EVO3 Injectors.
Gr. A Eprom.
286hp at 8300rpm.

Believe it or not, this are dyno results and no magazine values.
I'm shure, that in the next future there will be some dyno curves in the web from independent users.

Reliability: The electonic is built with common "up to date" parts. Nothing special. The temp sensor is used in brand new cars and this will going on. Many modern cars do use a throttle pot. One can use most of these common TPSs for this system (if, for some reason, the delivered one would fail and it would be no more available).

Martin

EMPOWERD
12-12-2002, 11:16 AM
Martin MAXX,

Where do you get these numbers from? Forgive me if it sounds a bit made up, but first off all... you use the stock 195HP rating. If anybody was dynoing numbers, they would show the true baseline seeing as every motor is different. You say +10 ... +15hp... well, which one? Are you using an engine dyno, or chassis... and if so, what friction losses are you using and how'd you come up with them. I'd like to see proof, it just sounds kinda fishy being your first post and all. That's all.

Stan
12-12-2002, 01:20 PM
Alpha-N does not kill engines.. But poor installs / tuning / misapplication will.

To get it to work the very best with the best (better than stock) drivability undell all conditions you need another sensor such as MAP of MAF to correct values. And you need temperature compensation. You can run the stock baro sensor on S14s to allow for baro or do it with a MAP sensor.

The MoTeC folks suggest running TPS/MAP when running their boxes on S14s.

Stan

MAXX
12-12-2002, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by empowerd
Martin MAXX,

Where do you get these numbers from? Forgive me if it sounds a bit made up, but first off all... you use the stock 195HP rating. If anybody was dynoing numbers, they would show the true baseline seeing as every motor is different. You say +10 ... +15hp... well, which one? Are you using an engine dyno, or chassis... and if so, what friction losses are you using and how'd you come up with them. I'd like to see proof, it just sounds kinda fishy being your first post and all. That's all.

Well, I got these numbers from tests most on a bosch chassis dyno.
These are average numbers of a bunch of very similar cars and all vary. Its crap to give exact numbers like 223,45hp since there are to many things in the chain with typical tollerances and meassurement errors. And it will vary in the real life depending on air temp, air pressure and some others.

The results were calculated from the environment condition parameters (air pressure/temp), including the friction.
The last one was tuned on a engine dyno.
It's some kind of a usual procedure.

My intention was not to describe any detail of any setup and car I ever had an a dyno. I just would give some simple examples.
Thats all. These examples are revisable.
The Alpha-N plus system is new in the States, so there are no expriences at this time but they will come up.
Listen to them.

Martin

Stan
12-12-2002, 01:51 PM
A-N can be used on any S14. You don't HAVE to run a CF intake. On stock manifolded M3s with intake extensions replacing the rubber elbow/AFM you gain output everywhere with A-N. Particularly down low and way up high. This is partly because the AFM's door is not fully open at the RPM extremes at WOT. And so the restriction is higher. Another thing you notice is that the part throttle response is tremendously improved. And part throttle dynos at say 30% throotle opening show +30-40% improvement. You don't have to floor it in the bottom revs to get some oompth anymore. This is the main thing you notice during street driving conditions around town.

In my tests on a mild 2.3, the GrA CF intale helped the mid and especially high RPM output but slightly cut low end below about 3000 RPMs. But note that that is in comparison with a stock manifold with a torque increasing extension and noAFM in either case. Compared to stock with an AFM there would be a torque increase overall down low with a CF Intake and A-N.

Stan

ROB89M3
12-12-2002, 02:40 PM
No-one has really commented on using the Alpha-N plus
on a 2.5 engine.

Also has anyone ever blown their S-14 with this or a similiar setup?

How about other engine management systems such as:

Sdsefi (http://www.sdsefi.com/)

Haltech (http://www.haltech.com/Products/products.html)

Motec (http://www.motec.com/)

GR8 Ride
12-12-2002, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by HANDBLT



A leaner A/F will NOT generate more power. A richer A/F will generate more power. Remember that you want the car around 14.7 (stoich) at cruise and light accel. You want the car (S14) around 12.5-13.2 for max power. If you've ever seen a Dyno graph with the 2D A/F line across the bottom, the A/F should start off fiarly lean (14-15) and then richen all the way to redline. You really want it too rich near redline because it keeps the cylinders cooler.



Still, a richer mixture produces less power than a lean mixture (within reason), that's simple physics. I agree on the A/F mixtures you want in the S14 motor, but it's difficult to map A/F mixtures on a car with no AFM / MAS when it's in motion, as opposed to standing on a dyno (which is drawn in air only).

Without the ability to actually measure incoming air, the Alpha-N setup is really guessing at the air volume coming into the motor, and adjusting fuel output to match.

The drawbacks to running a car without an AFM/MAS on the street tends to outweight the advantages by a significant amount.


Pat

HANDBLT
12-12-2002, 08:51 PM
Still, a richer mixture produces less power than a lean mixture (within reason), that's simple physics. I agree on the A/F mixtures you want in the S14 motor, but it's difficult to map A/F mixtures on a car with no AFM / MAS when it's in motion, as opposed to standing on a dyno (which is drawn in air only).

I don't use a Dyno, I have a stand alone WBO2 system on my car with monitoring and datalogging. I drive, I watch, I record, I tune. Repeat.

Lean mixtures cannot produce more power because they cause more heat, more heat = less power. The only thing a lean mixture will do is increase fuel economy, and chances of engine damage.

If you have an airbox like the M3 EVO one, or a cone filter under the hood there is no "Ram" air effect anyway. The only thing that will be different is the drag at high speeds. But I think these are issues that would be canceled out in close loop (up to 3800rpm on M3) anyway.

330DTM
12-12-2002, 09:10 PM
I'm really confused now. I always thought the more lean you run, the more power you'll make, but then you run into risk of damage because of the heat built up. Where as if you run too rich you'll have too much fuel pumping creating unburnt fuel going through the engine and less maximum power?

OR did I get this all mixed up?

HANDBLT
12-12-2002, 09:43 PM
All mixed up.

Lean mixture is above stoich (14.7:1). Your cars ECU will run in closed loop (ECU constantly adjusts to keep near stioch for economy and emissions) until a signal makes it turn to open loop. These signals could be WOT, a certain RPM (around 3900 on M3), unplugging the O2 sensor...etc. When the car hits open loop it is now just reading the fuel map. The fuel amp is either on the chip, or bieng fed from an outside source (MAF box, Alpha-N).

You will lose power if too rich when the fuel is cooling off the cylinders too much, cant burn all the fuel...etc. On the M3 a perfect A/F for max power is around 13.1 then gradually richer higher up in the revs (12.5 around redline).

Jon@Bimmersport
12-12-2002, 10:26 PM
once rob adds the alpha N setup, and he puts it on the dyno to get the right air/fuel set up wont he be running safe?

HANDBLT
12-12-2002, 10:40 PM
once rob adds the alpha N setup, and he puts it on the dyno to get the right air/fuel set up wont he be running safe?


If the Dyno place actually has a wide band O2 monitoring setup he should be fine.

Just to be safe I would at least have a narrow band A/F meter to see what the Motronic is seeing from the OE O2 sensor. This way you would be able to tell if it got way too lean.

If he keeps his car in closed loop control, he should always be safe. The JC chip adds 8% fuel under a WOT signal anyway.

T

leggwork
12-13-2002, 01:40 AM
Rob, I don't see how this type of forum is easier to follow than the Roadfly method, but whatever. And, why you put up with that obnoxious Randy guy makes me wonder - we all do a lot of research before settling on something that could significantly affect our car and pocketbook...

Anyway, on to something useful ... regarding the WBO2 - the Techedge people have a new version 1.5 that allows you to replace the stock narrowband O2 sensor with a wideband one, and their box outputs a simulated narrowband signal to feed to the stock ECU. Neat idea.
http://www.techedge.com.au/vehicle/wbo2/default.htm

bruce

GR8 Ride
12-13-2002, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by HANDBLT


Lean mixtures cannot produce more power because they cause more heat, more heat = less power. The only thing a lean mixture will do is increase fuel economy, and chances of engine damage.

If you have an airbox like the M3 EVO one, or a cone filter under the hood there is no "Ram" air effect anyway. The only thing that will be different is the drag at high speeds. But I think these are issues that would be canceled out in close loop (up to 3800rpm on M3) anyway.

Well, first of all, more heat generally=more power, that's simply physics. If there is unburnt fuel leaving the engine, then you haven't produced max power given the air going in. Also, TOO lean of a system can create too much heat, causing damage to the valves or pistons. The engine will produce lots of power, but have a limited lifespan. It's one of the reasons really high strung motors (such as the DTM version of the S14) have really short (20 or less hours) lifespans.

And while I agree that a LEAN engine is one above 14.7, I'm defining *lean* as when an engine is running at 13.5 (or 14.5 for example) when it's designed to run at 12.3 instead. Usually, less than 14.7 AFR won't generally cause damage, but that's not an absolute.

As to the ram air effect; much of the E30 race cars I've seen have been running CAI right out to the front grill.

While I agree that a WB02 sensor is a necessary tool for working on this, I wonder how you're able to turn an engine for maximum performance without the use of a dyno? How much power are you gaining, or expecting to gain without knowing where you started?


Pat

zenon
12-14-2002, 01:58 AM
Rob, What's the secret to viewing that video?

I dload it and nothing will play it.

ROB89M3
12-14-2002, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by zenon
Rob, What's the secret to viewing that video?

I dload it and nothing will play it.

Zenon,
you need to download this player:

Divx (http://www.divx.com/divx/index.php)

click and save .

zenon
12-14-2002, 02:06 AM
that's dumb, I have DivX I wonder why nothing realizes that I have that CODEC??


It's working now, got any more good move links? You know I love that E30 M3 lovin' :D

ROB89M3
12-14-2002, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by zenon
that's dumb, I have DivX I wonder why nothing realizes that I have that CODEC??


It's working now, got any more good move links? You know I love that E30 M3 lovin' :D

Asslar 2000 (http://www.bmwcrew.de/videos/asslar2000.asf)

Bayreuth 2000 (http://www.bmwcrew.de/videos/bayreuth00.asf)

Video 1 (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6356)

VIDEO 2 (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1328)

M3 Police chase (http://www.m3power.net/)

E30 M3 Slalom (http://www.bmwcrew.de/videos/rothenburg/rothenburg.htm)

zenon
12-14-2002, 02:15 AM
Ahhh, good as porn.

Thanks Rob.

330DTM
12-14-2002, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by zenon
Ahhh, good as porn.

Thanks Rob.


Zenon!!
Glad to see you abroad :P
Anyways, what you need to do is, download the divx5, then use the divx playa they provide you with to run that video, that's what I had to do!

zenon
12-14-2002, 03:24 AM
Of course!

I told you I'd join didn't I?*th-up*

It seems you're the official camera man here, do you have NE-thing downloadable?

PS: I love M-Coupes and Roadsters almost as much as E30 M3's

Also, I have DSL so don't be skimpy on the file sizes either k?

You guys may get a kick outta this, I did.
http://www.mts.net/~daver/fartinginbed.avi
L8R

330DTM
12-14-2002, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by zenon
Of course!

I told you I'd join didn't I?*th-up*

It seems you're the official camera man here, do you have NE-thing downloadable?

PS: I love M-Coupes and Roadsters almost as much as E30 M3's

Also, I have DSL so don't be skimpy on the file sizes either k?

L8R

Check-out our videos section if you start from the main page. I'm looking forward to getting better videos in the future since I'm still learning :P