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chromius
12-02-2002, 11:00 PM
Does Anyone have any experiecnce with fitting a Turbo Kit, or a supercharger on an E30 325 with an eta engine. Not sure if it could work, cuz I think the 325 has a higher compression ratio then the 325i witch probably wouldn't lend itself well to forced induction, but if anyone has any ideas, any help would be appreciated. Thanks.*smoke*

Eurostyle
12-02-2002, 11:07 PM
It can be done, even to an ETA...it can take 8psi on a stock engine. But if you put an "i" head you will get a much lower compression, even lower then the original "i" engine, so you can run higher boost! I hear its possible to get 260hp from the 2.7 only with a turbo (at 8psi) but it sounds a bit high to me...

robert79
12-03-2002, 08:03 AM
What compression does the eta block/ i head hybrid have?

Eurostyle
12-03-2002, 10:30 AM
Originally posted by robert79
What compression does the eta block/ i head hybrid have?

From what I remember it was 8.1:1 ( if you dont change pistons).

Sylak
12-03-2002, 01:18 PM
there a supercharged kit i have seen somewhere ( sorry dont remember) for a strock eta a make 243 pound of torque and 180hp... at 260 hp the torque must increase near 300 pound :eek: the eta his way more torquy than high rev...

Must be crazy! But a got a question the Eta engine his a strong engine but a stock compression with a boost will surely destroy the engine really fast?

M50E30
12-03-2002, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Sylak
there a supercharged kit i have seen somewhere ( sorry dont remember) for a strock eta a make 243 pound of torque and 180hp... at 260 hp the torque must increase near 300 pound :eek: the eta his way more torquy than high rev...

Must be crazy! But a got a question the Eta engine his a strong engine but a stock compression with a boost will surely destroy the engine really fast?

Those numbers seem high to me too. And the ETA has a weak crank so it isn't a strong stock engine to apply boost to.

Turbos (custom or kit) are posible but take alot of tuning and dyno time. People think that it is just a bolt on....it isn't. That is the big mistake with forced induction and if it isn't set up properly then KABOOM!

Sylak
12-03-2002, 06:19 PM
Yeah i know about that.. FI isnt easy to do. and it's more hard on a N/a engine!
Personally i'll go with a Swap ( M50 maybe) it more safe and my engine his now over 200 000km so a boost on a old engine.. doudtful
anyway for now i'm just dreaming i dont got money anyway!

robert79
12-03-2002, 08:33 PM
How about 325e M20 engine with the 325i M20 head and the 324td M21 crank?

Hmm, what kinda compression would the M21 engine get with the 325i head?? It would need a new set of pistons and the blolck would to be bored out from 80 to 84.

chromius
12-03-2002, 08:56 PM
So If it can be done, what would the effect be on engine components? Tie rods, Bushings, Piston Rings...etc and even Driveline components, Diferential and tranny?

M50E30
12-03-2002, 09:27 PM
To slap a turbo on the old M20 engine is going to give you good gains but heat is the main issue and cracking heads will probably be the main culprit. Why? Inline six engines have problems cooling down the center 2 pistons vs. a V6 or V8 where the pistons are seperated. I'm not totaly knocking down the M20, but it is going to cost lost of money on any engine for a proper installation/dyno tuning time.

Now to build a proper turbo motor you have to spend some serious cash (about $15,000+ on a M50 engine). I still want to research the possiblities of a reliable turbo M50 for future "projects".

Check out this movie of the Veilside Nissan Skyline GT-R (http://3si.streetsage.com/vid/veilside_skyline.avi) that puts out 1017hp at the wheels (Ahem! Skylines are AWD!!!). But I guarantee that engine has to be rebuilt after HOURS of driving...not weeks, months or years.

*mw*

Jase
12-03-2002, 09:41 PM
I have a prime example to the wrong setup..

Turbos (custom or kit) are posible but take alot of tuning and dyno time. People think that it is just a bolt on....it isn't. That is the big mistake with forced induction and if it isn't set up properly then KABOOM!
I had a 95 s10 ss with a 4.3( 200 hp) stock with a free flow exaust,filter, computer. I bolted a vortech supercharger to it. the truck had like 8000kms on it. It made CRAZY HP. But the truck was not well setup. I need to get a throttlebody, feul pump, stall converter and shift kit. After all that I blew the engine on the 410
it only lasted for like 2 months. There was not enough left of the engine to even fix it. I need a new block and heads. and everything in between.
Make sure it is done right ..I cut corners and look what happened
*no-no*

robert79
12-03-2002, 09:45 PM
I'm with M50E30 on the durability aspect. I would like a fast car, but it would prefer something that would drive me 365days/year. I'm sick of cars that cost a fortune and are in the workshop 9months of the year.I probably wouldn't mind rebuilding the engine every 24months.

Sylak
12-03-2002, 09:59 PM
V6 4.3 L are strong and a bad setting kill it.. so i would not mess on putting a F/I on a M20...
Ok! everybody talk about M50 swap a better way. but M50 engine are expensive.. so a E30 325I engine! ? the fitting will be easier? and the transmission his the same as a 325e ?

M50E30
12-03-2002, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Sylak
...but M50 engine are expensive...

...and the transmission his the same as a 325e ?

You can buy a M50 engine with the proper parts to do the very simple install (but a pro should wire it up) for the cost of a good turbo kit! I bought my complete conversion for $5000. And for transmission...i'm using the old M20 5-speed! I think it is on the way out since it's life of 240,000km+ of hard driving is catching up. But those are cheap to replace.

Jase
12-03-2002, 10:31 PM
so a M20 will bolt up to a M50 without a bracket or plate or anything. no customizingthe bellhousing?

M50E30
12-03-2002, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by Jase
so a M20 will bolt up to a M50 without a bracket or plate or anything. no customizingthe bellhousing?

Straight bolt up. M20 is probably a stronger tranny than the M50, buy the M50 is alot smoother in shifting.

Eurostyle
12-04-2002, 01:36 AM
Only problem here is the oil pan....need an E34 oil pan which can be very hard to find! Other then that you can get an M50 for $1500...

Eurostyle
12-04-2002, 01:40 AM
I agree the M50 will be more reliable then a turbo...I just want to do it because I have all the parts for it...and I might do an M50 swap on my everyday car, dont know yet! want to have fun with it!

Sylak
12-04-2002, 10:04 AM
the avantage for many of you, his taht you do the work yourself,
i'am not a mechanic. i know Much about how a car work, and the physic of it... but to play inside the machine? no there people for that, ok simple mechanic ,oil=, alternator ( already do that on american car not a on bimmer) etc etc. but engine swap.. No way i gonna do this! not equipement no space, no skill :-)

a question.. why a E34 oil pan? a M50 doesnt have one on his own??
and for a turbo eta.. the big fun abour it his that it will make damn torquy engine!! alread just with a Jim C chip the low torque his nice! juste imagine wiht a turbo!

Jase
12-04-2002, 11:51 AM
couldn't you just get a 2.5l from a 525. It would save you having to get a oil pan.:huh?:

Eurostyle
12-04-2002, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Sylak
the avantage for many of you, his taht you do the work yourself,
i'am not a mechanic. i know Much about how a car work, and the physic of it... but to play inside the machine? no there people for that, ok simple mechanic ,oil=, alternator ( already do that on american car not a on bimmer) etc etc. but engine swap.. No way i gonna do this! not equipement no space, no skill :-)

a question.. why a E34 oil pan? a M50 doesnt have one on his own??
and for a turbo eta.. the big fun abour it his that it will make damn torquy engine!! alread just with a Jim C chip the low torque his nice! juste imagine wiht a turbo!

The way the M50 sits in an E36 will not allow it to fit over the E30 subframe, so you need to get the 525i oil pan that is shaped like the M20. Finding one is hard, and when you do its a LOT of $$$...

robert79
12-04-2002, 01:44 PM
Actually only the post 1991 525i/520i had the M50 engine. You could also try getting the 525td/tds M51 turbo diesel oil pan. It "might" be cheaper".

Also, the E30 325i M20 engine doesn't loook all that bad on paper:

M20 2.5L = 170hp 117kg
M30 2.5L = 150hp 143kg
M50 2.5L = 192hp 136kg

Jase
12-04-2002, 04:24 PM
what is a m30? is that from a e34

robert79
12-04-2002, 04:37 PM
M30 where never used in 3-series BMW's

2.5L M30 where made during 81-88 and used in E28 525i, E23 725i....

Jase
12-04-2002, 04:49 PM
so you could get a m50 in a 525?. I fthis is so what is different about a 2.5l for a 525 and a 2.5l from a 325?if they are the same wouldn't it be easier to get a engine from a 525 then the oil pan is on it already

robert79
12-04-2002, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by M50E30
Inline six engines have problems cooling down the center 2 pistons vs. a V6 or V8 where the pistons are seperated. I'm not totaly knocking down the M20, but it is going to cost lost of money on any engine for a proper installation/dyno tuning time.
*mw*
Is there anything that can be done to improve the cooling of those cylinders? Can't you bore out the coolant lines near those cylinders?

I think the M20 might just be more susceptible to run down cooling systems (pumps/radiators). Maybe with nice new E36 radiator, upgraded water pump and colder thermostat the M20 can be used for 300hp???

Lately I'm considering rebuilding a M20 2.7eta in a E30 325e rather than getting a M50 installed. Here's my plan at the moment:

late E30 325e ( front/rear disk brakes, abs )

M41/M51 turbo diesel rods
M41/M51 turbo diesel crank
ARP head bolts
copper head gasket
pistons/rings?? lots of newer engines use 80mm bore pistons
E30 325i rebuilt head
M51 turbo manifold + turbo

Bigger injectors + aftermarket/piggyback ecu + intercooler…..

robert79
12-04-2002, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by Jase
so you could get a m50 in a 525?. I fthis is so what is different about a 2.5l for a 525 and a 2.5l from a 325?if they are the same wouldn't it be easier to get a engine from a 525 then the oil pan is on it already

Maybe 525 engines are more expensive/harder to get in the US???

I've heard of euro E36 M3 engine/gearboxe (320hp) going for ~$1500USD in England. With the right contacts you could probable even get cheaper thru Russia/Lithuania. Not that many M3's where sold in Russia *angel*

Sylak
12-04-2002, 06:33 PM
If i'll go for a swap i'll take the m20 2.5L ( from 325I) 170 hp with the torque that come with it should be nice...i'll put a chip in it that will make a nice engine! the engine will need no mods? since 325e and 325i are same car, only the engine change?

Damn we learn a lot in these post a i like that!

chromius
12-04-2002, 08:19 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but the 325e and 325i have different Tranny's and Diferentials do they not? So what would be the effect in dropping an 325i engine in a 325e, in terms of gear ratio's and such?

M50E30
12-04-2002, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by chromius_e30
Correct me if I am wrong but the 325e and 325i have different Tranny's and Diferentials do they not?

The difference between the 325e (2.7) vs the 325i (2.5) is the block and gear ratios. '88+ 325e have the same head as a 325i and transmission is the same. Hell i'm using the '88 M20 transmission on my '95 M50 engine.

Jase
12-04-2002, 09:56 PM
This is directed to M50e30..
Do you know of any difference between a 525 engine and a 325 engine. My brother inlaw had a 525 and the engine looked different than the pics of m50's in e30's...I am some what confused.Are they the same and the intake is different or are they just different.
others are welcome to answer. I just know I will get a good answer from m50e30 as he has done the comversion

M50E30
12-04-2002, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by Jase
This is directed to M50e30..
Do you know of any difference between a 525 engine and a 325 engine. My brother inlaw had a 525 and the engine looked different than the pics of m50's in e30's...I am some what confused.Are they the same and the intake is different or are they just different.
others are welcome to answer. I just know I will get a good answer from m50e30 as he has done the comversion

Well first off I don't know everything! But I try. LOL! The person to ask that is empowerd (aka: Randy the E30 Guru). He told me the differences before because I asked him but I have forgotten since it has been a long time. To be honest I do alot of research on the net (Bell Sympatico high speed...Thank you!).

Jase
12-04-2002, 11:12 PM
I would have asked him if he was not in germany... I figured you did a lot of research before you did the conversion, so you would know...who else did the conversion that you know of?. They might have some insight.

chromius
12-04-2002, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by M50E30


The difference between the 325e (2.7) vs the 325i (2.5) is the block and gear ratios. '88+ 325e have the same head as a 325i and transmission is the same. Hell i'm using the '88 M20 transmission on my '95 M50 engine.

Thats awsome man....how long did it take you to swap out the engines? I'm looking to do something similar, The 325e engine is a little lacking in power, I have all the standard bolt on mods, but I am still looking for something more, yet I still love the e30 body style...Thats why I was looking into Turbo's but I need an engine that will last for a while too, so it looks like a turbo is out....

M50E30
12-04-2002, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by chromius_e30
Thats awsome man....how long did it take you to swap out the engines? I'm looking to do something similar, The 325e engine is a little lacking in power, I have all the standard bolt on mods, but I am still looking for something more, yet I still love the e30 body style...Thats why I was looking into Turbo's but I need an engine that will last for a while too, so it looks like a turbo is out....

Motronix COULD do a M50 conversion in like 2 days or less. Thats if you have all the parts and the old M20 pulled. Doubt he will do it that fast since it does take time and ya don't want to mess it up by rushing. Also Bimmersport (Charlie) has done some conversions too. Ask him...he is always willing to help out a fellow BMW nut.

Dave

Eurostyle
12-05-2002, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by chromius_e30


Thats awsome man....how long did it take you to swap out the engines? I'm looking to do something similar, The 325e engine is a little lacking in power, I have all the standard bolt on mods, but I am still looking for something more, yet I still love the e30 body style...Thats why I was looking into Turbo's but I need an engine that will last for a while too, so it looks like a turbo is out....


Since you have all the small stuff, do you have a high ratio diff? (3.91 even 4.10!!) because that makes a night and day difference on an "e" engine!!! Driving a car with a diff and one stock, it feels like a Mustang 5.0 compared to a bimmer!

Eurostyle
12-05-2002, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by Jase
This is directed to M50e30..
Do you know of any difference between a 525 engine and a 325 engine. My brother inlaw had a 525 and the engine looked different than the pics of m50's in e30's...I am some what confused.Are they the same and the intake is different or are they just different.
others are welcome to answer. I just know I will get a good answer from m50e30 as he has done the comversion

Both engines look the same! I was going to buy one (92 525i) last spring at a great price but the guy kept F#%ing around so I got tired of chasing him!

OreoGaborio
12-09-2002, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Eurostyle



Since you have all the small stuff, do you have a high ratio diff? (3.91 even 4.10!!) because that makes a night and day difference on an "e" engine!!! Driving a car with a diff and one stock, it feels like a Mustang 5.0 compared to a bimmer!
bingo... i have an '87 eta and all i would do is throw in an 'i' intake, 'i' exhaust, 'i' head... but first go from the 2.93 to the 3.23 or maybe one notch higher to the 3.5 somethin... it totally makes a difference, since they gearing in the eta is so tall

Eurostyle
12-09-2002, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by OreoGaborio

bingo... i have an '87 eta and all i would do is throw in an 'i' intake, 'i' exhaust, 'i' head... but first go from the 2.93 to the 3.23 or maybe one notch higher to the 3.5 somethin... it totally makes a difference, since they gearing in the eta is so tall

With that engine work you should put a 3.91 since the new head will be able to take the revs...
I did this project on a friends car but it wasnt any good till he put a higher diff...

The Sly
12-09-2002, 09:23 PM
Hey Hey Hey Eurostyle..
How is the Turbo project going ?

Keep us in the loop if you can...I love to see these projects.

The SLy

OreoGaborio
12-09-2002, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Eurostyle


With that engine work you should put a 3.91 since the new head will be able to take the revs...
I did this project on a friends car but it wasnt any good till he put a higher diff...
sorry... my post is read... "all i WOULD do to my car"... all i have right now is a chip... sorry...

i MAY do the 'i' work later on, but for right now i'm just going to swap the differential, and eventually the 'i' intake and exhaust.... engine work other than switching to a JC chip won't happen for a while *shiner*

Eurostyle
12-09-2002, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by OreoGaborio

sorry... my post is read... "all i WOULD do to my car"... all i have right now is a chip... sorry...

i MAY do the 'i' work later on, but for right now i'm just going to swap the differential, and eventually the 'i' intake and exhaust.... engine work other than switching to a JC chip won't happen for a while *shiner*

I think you will be happy with the gains from the chip and diff!
Something you can do for cheap is swap the fuell pressure regulator for a higher on (off a 318 325i 533 535 etc...), will be better as the original (only 2.5 bar) because they tend to run lean at high RPM. With the chip you are close to 200 pounds of torque!!:D *th-up*

chromius
12-09-2002, 11:08 PM
Hey, The Sly

I've got a couple of questions for ya....first off How did you get your intake manifold so nice and clean? it looks really nice.

Also just wondering what you did to the intake...MAF....Wide throttle body?

EMPOWERD
12-09-2002, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Jase
This is directed to M50e30..
Do you know of any difference between a 525 engine and a 325 engine. My brother inlaw had a 525 and the engine looked different than the pics of m50's in e30's...I am some what confused.Are they the same and the intake is different or are they just different.
others are welcome to answer. I just know I will get a good answer from m50e30 as he has done the comversion

They had 2 different types of 2.5L motors in the E34.... the older M20 and also the newer M50. They both use the same oil pans because their blocks are almost identical. You can use either pan for the M50 conversion.

if the stock tranny is used, a higher gear ratio might be useful (like a 3.91 or 4.10) because the motor runs smoother and smeemingly higher than the key-belt driven older 2 valve head. If the tranny gets swapped for a Getrag 240 (M50 tranny) than a much lower ratio should be used (like a 3.45 or 3.23) because the output ratio is different.

The Sly
12-09-2002, 11:27 PM
The intake has been beebblast....then a coat of clear wa put on.
My brother inlaw has one of those beeb blaster...it's great.

I also used a AFM from a 6 series with the electronics of the 3 series inside of it.

Our AFM is too restrictive.

Eurostyle
12-09-2002, 11:36 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by empowerd
[B]

They had 2 different types of 2.5L motors in the E34.... the older M20 and also the newer M50. They both use the same oil pans because their blocks are almost identical. You can use either pan for the M50 conversion.


Did the M20 E34 ever make it to Canada?
If this pan (from M20 E34) can be used then can you use one from an M20 E30???

Mr. M-Tech
12-11-2002, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by Eurostyle
[QUOTE]Originally posted by empowerd
[B]

They had 2 different types of 2.5L motors in the E34.... the older M20 and also the newer M50. They both use the same oil pans because their blocks are almost identical. You can use either pan for the M50 conversion.


Did the M20 E34 ever make it to Canada?
If this pan (from M20 E34) can be used then can you use one from an M20 E30???


The M20 motor can be found in ALL E34 525i from 1989-90.
The oil pan in the E34 is different than the one in the E30.