PDA

View Full Version : Anyone use TMS performance chip on 318? If not, what do you recommend?


Autotechnica
11-26-2002, 08:06 PM
Hey guys, I'm planning to get a chip real soon. My choices are between the following...

- Garett
- EAT
- Bavarian
- BMP
- TMS

Too many problems w/ Dinan chips, my uncle w/ M6 had Dinan chip, I had it for a while, my friend w/ 318 had it, and my friend w/ 325 had it. They all said sometimes their car wouldn't start and a lot of the time there was engine hesitation at 4500RPM... strange. I've also heard that US spec chips are made to operate within US temps. So that means above 10 degrees or so, that's why sometimes your car doesn't start with a performance chip. This is according to Dinan anyways, their technical support reply. This is obviously BS, because it snows in some places in the US.

Anyways, back on topic, Basically I would just like to know if you guys have had any problems with these brands. And if not, what do you like about them?

Thanks,

Bryan

Sylak
11-27-2002, 11:05 AM
Go with jim C chip from turnere motorsport i got one for my 325e, got no probleme with it even in cold weather!it not a 318. so it doesnt help you much, but the chip do a real good chip on my car! the 318 version will surely be as good!

there maybe a differenc between Dinan and Jim C chip!

mike125k
11-27-2002, 02:09 PM
i have a jim c chip from TMS in my M42. made a nice improvent to it. added a little bit to the bottom end, at about 3500 it pulls stronger, and from 5000+ it really sings now! mine seemed to be flat from 5k above with the stock chip before. pulling 5th gear passing is easier too. you just have to watch because the rev limiter is basically gone now. its pushed back to 7200, but at 7200 the harmonic balancers has a tendancy to explode and you can float valves too.

E30 Stu
11-30-2002, 02:46 AM
Originally posted by mike125k
i have a jim c chip from TMS in my M42. made a nice improvent to it. added a little bit to the bottom end, at about 3500 it pulls stronger, and from 5000+ it really sings now! mine seemed to be flat from 5k above with the stock chip before. pulling 5th gear passing is easier too. you just have to watch because the rev limiter is basically gone now. its pushed back to 7200, but at 7200 the harmonic balancers has a tendancy to explode and you can float valves too.

Well said. But it should be noted that the harmonic balancer fails at 7350. Good info otherwise. :)

Autotechnica
11-30-2002, 06:03 PM
What's the new rev limit? 6800RPM? I don't understand the point of pusing the rev limiter so high. The M42's power peaks out at around 6000RPM anyways. Any high than that the power starts to fall. I'd rather fun at a safe RPM, sometimes when I get a little rev happy I really redline it in the corners when I downshift. I'll just have to be careful I guess.

Thanks for the info guys.

Bryan

Jon@Bimmersport
11-30-2002, 06:06 PM
hey autotechnica...are you serious bout those dinan chips? i went to see rick with his e30 318is and he has a dinan chip...there was a little bit of hesitation in the car but after than it reved happily all the way to 7000 or a little below..the motor had no problems, i went with empowerd to test it out...but are jim c's chips better for performance than dinan?

e30 and e36 also have the same engine right? the M42? whats the safest RPM to rev it to? now that theres no rev limiter my brother has to be extra careful....for racing, whats the best RPM to shift at? like where there powerband stops making power

E30 Stu
11-30-2002, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by Autotechnica
What's the new rev limit? 6800RPM? I don't understand the point of pusing the rev limiter so high. The M42's power peaks out at around 6000RPM anyways. Any high than that the power starts to fall. I'd rather fun at a safe RPM, sometimes when I get a little rev happy I really redline it in the corners when I downshift. I'll just have to be careful I guess.

Thanks for the info guys.

Bryan

The power peak is around 6400-6600 on a '91 (E30) M42. The Conforti chip has a 7200 redline. It is necessary for utility on the track, the extra RPM is nice to have in corners. It is also essential on the 1-2 shift to stay above 4500 rpm.

Why would you be downshifting in corners?

Autotechnica
11-30-2002, 08:51 PM
Originally posted by E46_lover
hey autotechnica...are you serious bout those dinan chips? i went to see rick with his e30 318is and he has a dinan chip...there was a little bit of hesitation in the car but after than it reved happily all the way to 7000 or a little below..the motor had no problems, i went with empowerd to test it out...but are jim c's chips better for performance than dinan?

e30 and e36 also have the same engine right? the M42? whats the safest RPM to rev it to? now that theres no rev limiter my brother has to be extra careful....for racing, whats the best RPM to shift at? like where there powerband stops making power

Well I'm not going to say that all Dinan chips will produce this result. But I've seen it in enough cars to convince me to buy a different brand.

The most damaging part of revving into the redline area is not really how high an RPM you reach, but how long you stay at that RPM. For instance, when your in a drag race, each time you hit redline your only touching it for a split second, then you change gears. If your racing on a track, you could be hitting redline in the corners for a few seconds because you need the power up high to pull you through the corner, much more damaging.

E30 M42's and E36 M42's bascially have the same engine. Visually all I noticed was that the intake manifolds were slightly different. E36 M42 has thermoplastic intake manifolds on the inside which cannot be extrude honed and E30 M42's have cast iron (I think) intake manifolds which can be extrude honed.

1996 and later I believe, the E36 318 is using the OBD2 M44 engine. Slightly more torque and what other differences I have no idea. Visually, the ignition system looks different, and the air box is a different design. Instead of having air fed in through the front grills, it is fed in through behind the head light area (correct me if I'm wrong). And it also appears that the air box/filter is much smaller.

For racing on the M42 (stock), I think shifting at 6000RPM is the best. It's where your peak power is and you won't loose power by over revving. Important to get your car dyno'd once you have lots of mods or a moderate amount. You have to figure out where your peak power is on the RPM band so you know where to shift. But generally you will get the idea as you drive the car more and more.

Bryan

Autotechnica
11-30-2002, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by E30 Stu


The power peak is around 6400-6600 on a '91 (E30) M42. The Conforti chip has a 7200 redline. It is necessary for utility on the track, the extra RPM is nice to have in corners. It is also essential on the 1-2 shift to stay above 4500 rpm.

Why would you be downshifting in corners?

The E36 and E30 M42 could possbily be different. I believe on the E36 M42 the stock redline is just below 6500RPM (6450). And according to dyno's on a stock car the peak power is 138HP@6000RPM (E36). I'm not too thrilled about having such a high redline, without performance cams to push that power further up in the RPM band I find it's quite useless.

Sorry, I did not mean downshifting "while" in a corner, I meant right before. On the M42 you really have to get above 4500RPM to get the torque to pull you out of the corner, otherwise I find you just get understeer.

Bryan

E30 Stu
11-30-2002, 09:35 PM
The '91 M42 is identical to the '92-'95 except for the intake manifold. The '91 manifold is very similar to the one used in the 2002tii, and flows MUCH better than the E36 manifold. The '91 manifold pulls much harder over 5000. A friend of mine from Wisconson dynoed her slightly modified '91 M42 (stock internals) at 124 HP @ 6400 at the wheels on a Mustang Dyno.

The M44 is BMW's "account department special" motor. It has a cast iron crankshaft that is NOT even fully counterweighted! It also has an even lousier intake that really chokes the top end.

Yea, shifting at 6000 is only optimal if you plan on not extracting maximum performance out of your M42. On the 1-2 shift, you HAVE to go 7000, otherwise when you hit 2nd, you'll fall flat on your face. This may be slightly different on an E36, but not much different. You need to wind it atleast 6500 in 1st. For the rest of the gears, you can shift at about 6300-6600 and be alright. The only time you want to shift at 6000 is 4-5. Your asking to get ass kicked by the Hondas if you drop below 4500.

Autotechnica
11-30-2002, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by E30 Stu
The '91 M42 is identical to the '92-'95 except for the intake manifold. The '91 manifold is very similar to the one used in the 2002tii, and flows MUCH better than the E36 manifold. The '91 manifold pulls much harder over 5000. A friend of mine from Wisconson dynoed her slightly modified '91 M42 (stock internals) at 124 HP @ 6400 at the wheels on a Mustang Dyno.

The M44 is BMW's "account department special" motor. It has a cast iron crankshaft that is NOT even fully counterweighted! It also has an even lousier intake that really chokes the top end.

Yea, shifting at 6000 is only optimal if you plan on not extracting maximum performance out of your M42. On the 1-2 shift, you HAVE to go 7000, otherwise when you hit 2nd, you'll fall flat on your face. This may be slightly different on an E36, but not much different. You need to wind it atleast 6500 in 1st. For the rest of the gears, you can shift at about 6300-6600 and be alright. The only time you want to shift at 6000 is 4-5. Your asking to get ass kicked by the Hondas if you drop below 4500.

Thanks! That's some very good infomation.

Do you think it would benefit me to swap an E30 intake manifold? Do you think the E30 manifold's air flow is sufficient? I would like to extrude hone it if possible.

thanks again,

Bryan

E30 Stu
11-30-2002, 10:05 PM
Originally posted by Autotechnica


Thanks! That's some very good infomation.

Do you think it would benefit me to swap an E30 intake manifold? Do you think the E30 manifold's air flow is sufficient? I would like to extrude hone it if possible.

thanks again,

Bryan

Yea, we plan on selling the '91 manifold/E36 swap kits. You'll just need the manifold, t-body and a few other parts. The airflow is more than sufficient. What does your E36 weigh?

Autotechnica
11-30-2002, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by E30 Stu


Yea, we plan on selling the '91 manifold/E36 swap kits. You'll just need the manifold, t-body and a few other parts. The airflow is more than sufficient. What does your E36 weigh?

I don't think I'll need the TB. I got my TB bored out (+5mm/+1) mm and it was from an E30. From what I can see they are identical.

My E36 weighs 2800lbs I believe. Could be slightly less.

What do you mean manifold swap kits? Isn't it just a direct bolt on for the manifold peice only? If not, how much will these kits be available for?

Thanks,

Bryan

Autotechnica
11-30-2002, 10:27 PM
Hey E30 Stu,

Your borbet wheels look identical to my 1992 318's wheels.

Autotechnica
11-30-2002, 10:37 PM
E30 Stu,

One more thing, Re. the manifold swap. I was looking at an E30 318 tonight and I noticed how high the intake manifold sticks out. The guy I met up with tonight said it probably won't fit under my hood unless I get it modified somehow. How does your swap kit work? I'd like more info please. Thanks!

Bryan

Jon@Bimmersport
12-01-2002, 02:47 AM
hey E30 stu, the 318is my bro is getting has dinan chip with exhaust...what other mods are worth it for the 318is?

E30 Stu
12-01-2002, 10:21 AM
The manifold swap is something we are working on right now Bryan. We havn't tried it on a car yet, and we need a guinea pig E36. :)

E46-Lover- He might want to ditch the Dinan chip and pick up a Conforti. The Dinan chips do not produce the best dyno results, and their method of setting redlines on chips is obsolete. He might want to look into a cone-filter setup with a well built heatshield. It flows a lot better than the stock airbox up top, and sounds wicked. Those are about the only bolt-ons, lemme know if he plans to go more in depth.

Autotechnica
12-01-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by E30 Stu
The manifold swap is something we are working on right now Bryan. We havn't tried it on a car yet, and we need a guinea pig E36. :)



Let me know when you have tried it out. And if there are any dyno plots please post the results. I thought the newer M42's intake manifolds were made in thermoplastic to get smoother air flow? Are you positive that the older style M42 manifolds flow better?

Thanks,

Bryan

E30 Stu
12-01-2002, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Autotechnica


Let me know when you have tried it out. And if there are any dyno plots please post the results. I thought the newer M42's intake manifolds were made in thermoplastic to get smoother air flow? Are you positive that the older style M42 manifolds flow better?

Thanks,

Bryan

Positive.

Autotechnica
12-01-2002, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by E30 Stu


Positive.

Thanks, well keep me updated on the swap kit, I'm very interested. At first I wanted the E30M3 multi-throttle intake manifold, I've heard Jim C. say it works great on the 318. Only problem is it will kill all the power low down, and basically I will need more internals to compensate $$$. I mostly drive high end anyways.

Do you own a shop or something? If so, what other services, products do you provide?

Bryan

E30 Stu
12-01-2002, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by Autotechnica


Thanks, well keep me updated on the swap kit, I'm very interested. At first I wanted the E30M3 multi-throttle intake manifold, I've heard Jim C. say it works great on the 318. Only problem is it will kill all the power low down, and basically I will need more internals to compensate $$$. I mostly drive high end anyways.

Do you own a shop or something? If so, what other services, products do you provide?

Bryan

The S14 throttles will not fit on an M42, the engine dimensions are totally different. The M10/S14 is 3" longer.

My dad runs Precision Performance Services. He sells engine swap kits, and does M10, S14, M20, M50 high performance/race rebuilds. The number is (336) 761-0643. Some of our current cars are 2 E30 M3's, both with built M50's. My dads has a 2.9L aluminum block M50 with an M3 head/cams, ZF 310 and a 3.46 rear end. My brothers M3 has a 3.2L OBD-1 M50 with a ZF310 and a 3.25 rear. It puts 250 to the wheels.

My 318is is getting a 2.8L OBD-1 M50 next spring. It will most likely have M3 cams and make very serious power :D