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Ian Sheppard
08-04-2006, 12:33 AM
So after contemplating an engine swap for several years, the time has finnaly come...I've bought a 3.2L M3 engine to dump into my 89 325is...Soon to be 332is

The engine comes with a ton of other stuff to swap in:

M3 Engine
M3 Transmission
M3 Driveshaft
LSD Differential
OD1 wiring harness + intake, ect to convert OBD2 engine to OBD1
M3 Steering rack
euro HFM
Custom performance chip


Here's a pic of the recipient...Wish me luck, should be a fun fall / winter project! I'm planning on documenting the swap fairly well with pics ect, so hopefully it will help someone else with the swap in the future.

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/6/web/546000-546999/546116_4_full.jpg

hammoj28
08-08-2006, 04:49 PM
Good luck. Someone i know has recently completed this project on his tourer and its mental!

brent-E30
08-08-2006, 05:40 PM
ya man, please take pics and document the swap, its something i'm thinking of doing too. hey do you mined my asking how much all the stuff costs and where you got it? good luck *th-up*

cisco911
08-08-2006, 05:44 PM
That is a pretty crazy swappp especially if you do a twin screw with it :)

Mystikal
08-08-2006, 07:19 PM
Mmmm...OBD1 3.2 with bolt-ons in a 2850lb car.

I've always admired your car Ian (immitation = flattery?), hope the swap goes well.

X2theZ3
08-11-2006, 03:16 AM
ya man, please take pics and document the swap, its something i'm thinking of doing too. hey do you mined my asking how much all the stuff costs and where you got it? good luck *th-up*

why?

There's already a bunch of info.

brent-E30
08-12-2006, 10:27 AM
why?

There's already a bunch of info.

ya there is lots X2theZ3, but the more the better right? i'm sure if you were doing this swap you'd want as many pics and tips as you could get, i'm hoping to do it in about a year. and me asking about price, i dont know about you but i'm not made of money so i was just wondering how much Ian Sheppard payed for it, not how much others payed for the stuff...maby he has a good source and got a better price, well hope that answers your queston.

e30countess
08-12-2006, 11:50 AM
Well the more info the better and i would love to read up on this as much as possible. Im still undecided if i should put my money towards the e30 M3 or get a much cheaper e30 325i and work on it to get the same performance. I've thought about the fact that the M3 will keep value but i know i will lap it on the track and wont be gentle with it. So this swap will be interesting. Good luck, i think you need it!

Ian Sheppard
08-15-2006, 12:41 AM
Thanks for all the kind words...I'm looking forward to getting started the fall. I'm hoping to keep a pretty decent photo record of the process.

I got all the parts for the swap, including the OBD1 conversion parts from Will Zaraska (www.willz.ca). Getting everything from one place takes alot of hastle out of it. Will gave me good deal on all the parts, but it did end up costing more than expected as all the parts add up in a hurry. US$3000 engines are easy to find on ebay, but that only gets you half way there.

Here's what he's sending out for me:

3.2L OBD2 engine with all accesories (AC, starter, alternator)
M50 intake manifold, fuel rail, injectors, ect
OBD1 wiring harness / computer
525i oil pan, puimp, dipstick
S52 transmission
Complete exhaust
driveshaft
E30 LSD
M3 rack (not needed, but I want the quicker ratio)

I'll need soem other stuff too, like a 325IX booster, motor / trans mounts, and I'm sure theres a ton of other stuff I'll need before I'm up and running.

I'll add it all up when I'm done, but figure I'll be up to about 7500 canadian by the time I'm all done. I initially figured I could do it for around 5K, but think thats next to impossible unless you get a steal of a deal on an engine.

I'm curious to see if I'll still drive the M3 when this is done!

Ian Sheppard
08-15-2006, 12:49 AM
Mmmm...OBD1 3.2 with bolt-ons in a 2850lb car.

I've always admired your car Ian (immitation = flattery?), hope the swap goes well.


Thanks! I always liked the Ronals, and think they look pretty stock on the car. I'm now kinda torn as to what to do as I want to go 5 lugs so I can get bigger M3 brakes...I'm contemplating a 4 bolt BBK just so I can keep them!

Mystikal
08-15-2006, 11:36 PM
I have some 5x120 16x8.5" Ronals for sale right now actually. Not to throw in a plug, but it really does sound ideal for you. :P

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61705&stc=1&d=1155577844

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76144

Ian Sheppard
08-16-2006, 12:46 AM
I have some 5x120 16x8.5" Ronals for sale right now actually. Not to throw in a plug, but it really does sound ideal for you. :P

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=61705&stc=1&d=1155577844

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76144

Damn, those are sweet!

I don't think the ET10 will work on a regular E30 though. I'm running ET25s with 225s, and they are extremely tight to the rear fenders...Another 15mm and they will rub for sure.

That said they would look amazing on the M3...

Unfortunately I've blow the budget for now...If I go 5 lug I'm going to use the E28 M5 rims I have in the garage.

Thanks though!

kapt_krickee
04-18-2007, 09:17 PM
any updates with this??pics? DIY's!! uber detailed instructions? lol

I'm seriously considering this very soon..also a full repaint and 5-lug swap..yes..coinage..but sweetness'sss..*shiner*

funny I just contacted the guys at www.willz.ca and they mentioned that a guy from calgary was doing the same swap as well! ahha..i'm assuming its you *th-up*


tia!

Ian Sheppard
04-19-2007, 02:10 AM
Its well underway, but unfortunately I've seriously fallen down on the documentation part. I've also been sidetracked with my new E36 M3 that i got out of California. As it sits right now, i've got all the old stuff out, new M3 rack installed and the engine/transmission in place. I've got to get the wiring ect all hooked up, and still have a pretty long ways to go. Hopefully I'll have it going over the nextg month as summer is here, and motivation is getting high to get it out. I'll try and get some pics up soon. Biggest hold up has been missing parts here and there, but I think I've got everything to complete it now...I hope! If you are thinking of doing it, come up with a budget and then double it! I suspect I'll be in it for close on 10k cdn by the time its done, but I did do alot of non required things like new rack, LSD, OBD1 conversion, chip, euro hfm, CAI, bigger injectors, new cluthc, water pump, all gaskets and hoses, tie rods, bushings, ect, etc, ect.

Sorry for the poor documentation...I swore I'd do a step by step, but I droped the ball there...if you need details ask away and I'm sure I can fill them in.

That would have to be me that Will is talking about...Great guy for hooking me up, and he now know just about everything needed for the swap.

Ian

kapt_krickee
04-19-2007, 05:34 PM
yah guess its pricey...a buddy of mine is trying to convince me to just go turbo..


damn..wish u documented!! could see if I'm up to the task..(I'm not a mechanic by any means-I make video games & comic books lol)

thanks though! if you do end up documenting some of the final stretch plz post!*th-up*

BigD
04-19-2007, 05:44 PM
There's no need for documentation. When you get serious, find the ORCA cd. It holds your hand through every single step - there's a dude's website out there who did an M50 swap into his E30 using the ORCA cd, and he has never even done an oil change before. There are some complications you may have (I did, for instance my oil pan had a different baffle than the one they had, and I had to do some cutting in it to make it clear) but in general, it has all the information you'll ever want, even how to keep your A/C. The OBDI conversion is well documented on the web but you can buy a CD from Zionsville for that too. I've got a copy coming because I was going to get the pipe fitting for the coolant pipe but apparently they reused the OBDII metal pipe which I'd like to do.

kapt_krickee
04-19-2007, 06:02 PM
really? wow thanks!! I'll search the interwebs*rockout*

Ian Sheppard
04-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Ya, I bought the Orca CD too. Worth the 100 bucks, and is a minimal expense in the whole scheme of things.

I did the OBD conversion too, but ended up just sticking a complete OBD1 head on the OBD 3.2L block. Atleast I won't have to worry about headgasket issues any time soon.

BigD
04-19-2007, 10:38 PM
You did swap the cams though right? (just asking cause you make it sound like you just installed it as-is)

static
04-19-2007, 10:45 PM
there is enough free knowledge and free support (r3v), no reason to spend money

also there is a convenient wiki now, to which anyone is welcome to contribute
http://www.e30dohc.com/wiki/index.php?title=Talk:Main_Page

Ian Sheppard
04-20-2007, 01:22 AM
You did swap the cams though right? (just asking cause you make it sound like you just installed it as-is)

I swaped the OBD1 M3 head, so it already has the M3 cams. I assume thats what you mean? As far as I understand all OBD1 Vanos heads are the same aside from the 325 vs M3 cams.

BigD
04-20-2007, 02:42 AM
I swaped the OBD1 M3 head, so it already has the M3 cams. I assume thats what you mean? As far as I understand all OBD1 Vanos heads are the same aside from the 325 vs M3 cams.

Are you assuming that the S52 has the same cams as the S50 or do you know for a fact? I mean one is designed for a 3.0 and the other for a 3.2. It could just be the software but it needs to flow more fuel... If you do nothing but swap the head, the computer may be able to adjust the injector pulse but I doubt it, that's a pretty big difference and you'll burn up your engine. I could be completely off base and the heads are far more similar than I think and you can just use the 21 pound injectors and 3.2 ECU but that's my gut feeling...

static
04-20-2007, 08:42 PM
i remember that s52 cams have same lobes, but because of some differences they won't fit.

At WOT ECU runs in open mode, so it won't adjust the pulse, only at part throttle (i hear at part throttle it adjusts around 10-15% only)

BigD
04-20-2007, 11:54 PM
i remember that s52 cams have same lobes, but because of some differences they won't fit.

Well by "same" I mean same lift and duration.

Ian Sheppard
04-21-2007, 12:47 AM
Now you have me paranoid. I've been told that it will work fine. I'm running bigger 24# injectors, so fuel shouldn't be an issue. As well, I've got a custom chip for the set up. I'm running an OBD1 computer and all OBD1 electronics.

JazzM
04-21-2007, 10:11 AM
To convert to ODBI you are just changing the intake manifold... not the head

If you change cams go with schrick or sunlife cams...

then you'll make some serious power up top.

T.

BigD
04-21-2007, 03:47 PM
Ian: If your source of information has actually done this before, I wouldn't worry. But do some more research just in case.

Tom: there's much more to it than the intake manifold. You need to replace just about everything except for the shortblock, and modify several things yourself - even the exhaust manifolds need to be modified or replaced. Replacing the head is a clean solution if it works, because there are modifications that need to be done to the S52 head to make it work (for one, you need to add a 2nd coolant temp sensor [this is for the E30 remember, the E36 solution of splicing into the dual sensor won't work], most people drill/tap, I rethreaded the sensor for the coolant nipple hole that feeds the TB warming circuit which I'm deleting).

static
04-21-2007, 06:25 PM
S52 cams don't fit M50:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=724720&highlight=%22s52+cams%22+m50
(look around for more on bf.c)

BigD
04-21-2007, 06:30 PM
S52 cams don't fit M50:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=724720&highlight=%22s52+cams%22+m50
(look around for more on bf.c)

The relevant piece of information in that thread is

from my own research i have found that the lift and duration on the s50 are identical to the s52

The only thing left to think about is the size of the valves (which I vaguely remember reading somewhere that they are the same from the S50 to the S52) and combustion chambers, which I'm sure is the same too. And again, if the person who told you this would work has already done it with expected results, this is all moot.

EDIT: After reading further down the thread:

the lift and duration of the cams are almost identical. the duration is alittle more aggressive, but not something too noticable on the s50 cams.

*shrugs*

hernando
04-21-2007, 07:32 PM
Hopefully I'll have it going over the nextg month as summer is here, and motivation is getting high to get it out. I'll try and get some pics up soon. Biggest hold up has been missing parts here and there, but I think I've got everything to complete it now...I hope! If you are thinking of doing it, come up with a budget and then double it! I suspect I'll be in it for close on 10k cdn by the time its done, but I did do alot of non required things like new rack, LSD, OBD1 conversion, chip, euro hfm, CAI, bigger injectors, new cluthc, water pump, all gaskets and hoses, tie rods, bushings, ect, etc, ect.
Ian

I feel your pain buddy! I've been working on my S50B32 swap into my E30M3 for like a year now. Trying to find the right parts was definitely the hard part and it defintiely cost me alot more than I originally thought. Hoping its up and running in the next week.

Was Sheni working on the swap for you?

static
04-21-2007, 08:34 PM
The relevant piece of information in that thread is what i initially said: S52 cams don't fit M50 head without some modifications. i just linked to thread to sanity-check my statement as i didn't try this personally.

The relevant piece of information in that thread is



The only thing left to think about is the size of the valves (which I vaguely remember reading somewhere that they are the same from the S50 to the S52) and combustion chambers, which I'm sure is the same too. And again, if the person who told you this would work has already done it with expected results, this is all moot.

EDIT: After reading further down the thread:



*shrugs*

BigD
04-21-2007, 09:25 PM
The relevant piece of information in that thread is what i initially said: S52 cams don't fit M50 head without some modifications. i just linked to thread to sanity-check my statement as i didn't try this personally.

The point isn't whether or not you're right about the cams fitting but whether or not his setup will need further modification to function, and according to some posts in that thread, it will not.

Ian Sheppard
04-21-2007, 09:45 PM
S52 cams don't fit M50:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=724720&highlight=%22s52+cams%22+m50
(look around for more on bf.c)

Interesting read. That said, that is not what I have done. I have a complete S50 head (S50 head and Cams and manifold ect) from an OBD1 95 M3. The Complete head has been mounted on a 98 M3 3.2L block. I've been told I should be OK. I didn't do the headswap myself...Willz.ca did the swap for me, and assured me it would work fine with the proper software. I also spoke with a BMW tech who assured me I would be good to go. I don't see any reason why the complete head shouldn't work on the 3.2L block. I guess I'll find out for sure shortly when I try to get it going. I'll be curious to see what kind of HP it will make with the programming, intake, exhaust, Euro HFM, bigger injectors, and OBD1 electronics. I'm guessing ~270 crank HP?

Ian

static
04-22-2007, 12:25 AM
more like 250-260 according to many on bf.c (obd1 s52 with mods you listed), schriks would give even more
I am really hoping you at least changed the retainers when the head was off.

Ian Sheppard
04-23-2007, 10:01 PM
more like 250-260 according to many on bf.c (obd1 s52 with mods you listed), schriks would give even more
I am really hoping you at least changed the retainers when the head was off.

Really? 10HP sounds light out of an OBD1 swap, chip, injectors, CAI, exhaust, and euro HFM. I'm not expecting huge numbers, but would have figured more than that.

BigD
04-23-2007, 10:07 PM
Really? 10HP sounds light out of an OBD1 swap, chip, injectors, CAI, exhaust, and euro HFM. I'm not expecting huge numbers, but would have figured more than that.

The general consensus as far as I've heard is the setup you're planning to run (with an S52 head anyway :) ) should yield around 300 at the crank (probably with cams though). The OBDI S52 by itself has been dynoed by Zionsville at 265-275hp. Not that it matters what number you get, as long as the motor is healthy, the delta is all that matters. That's why I'm just getting my pink tops flowmatched and refurbished, and the engine stays stock other than OBDI. When I actually get a handle on it on the track with this much power, I'll consider upgrading stuff but if I do I'll get a blower along with bigger injectors. As far as I'm concerned, if the 3.2 needed more fuel out of the injectors to run optimally, they would have put 24 pounders in there to begin with. I bet all the software really does is choke the 24 pound injector pulse width down to basically what the 21.5 flow. But either way, I don't think the injectors/euro hfm is a good investment for the price you have to pay (unless you get garbage parts).

static
04-23-2007, 10:35 PM
As far as I'm concerned, if the 3.2 needed more fuel out of the injectors to run optimally, they would have put 24 pounders in there to begin with. I bet all the software really does is choke the 24 pound injector pulse width down to basically what the 21.5 flow.

don't be so fast to assume: it's a proven fact that S50 and M20 both get over 100% duty cycle (aka "not enough") on stockers and a good aftermarker/custom tune. You know what happens when you run lean at high rpm / high load right? Ask Bruno how much his rebuild is.

Yes it does choke it, and yes, the low rpm quality worsens an insignificant amount (due to a shorter pulse width) so that's the trade-off, but at least they supply enough fuel up high.

BigD
04-24-2007, 01:50 PM
don't be so fast to assume: it's a proven fact that S50 and M20 both get over 100% duty cycle (aka "not enough") on stockers and a good aftermarker/custom tune. You know what happens when you run lean at high rpm / high load right? Ask Bruno how much his rebuild is.

Yes it does choke it, and yes, the low rpm quality worsens an insignificant amount (due to a shorter pulse width) so that's the trade-off, but at least they supply enough fuel up high.

Call me unreasonably skeptical but I can't believe that without witnessing the proof. 24 pound injectors are used on high performance 5L V8s, surely 21.5 pounds is MORE than enough for the most free-breathing NA 3.2 6 banger (with like 17% smaller cylinder volume). Lean run conditions can be caused by a hundred things and only one of them is a maxed out injector.

Either way it doesn't really matter to me that much since I'm never going to do that mod without forced induction. I'm not going to spend a few thousand on cams, software, injectors and the HFM for a dozen HP. That's blower money, and much more interesting gains.

static
04-24-2007, 02:11 PM
noone ever said 21.5# isn't enough for S52. It probably is, i was commenting on your general assumption that "if BMW put it there, then it's must be enough"

btw, your v8 analogy doesn't really work as their redline comes much sooner. (you have to roughly multiply volume by peak rpm to compare)

blowers have their own set of disadvantages: extra weight, lot's of extra heat, lag, not very reliable unless you pay lot's of $$$ to beef up everything. Cams are good for dedicated racers.

BigD
04-24-2007, 02:36 PM
noone ever said 21.5# isn't enough for S52. It probably is, i was commenting on your general assumption that "if BMW put it there, then it's must be enough"

Well this discussion is about an S52 engine so you implicitely said so. But yes, I do mean the generalization of the concept as well, there's no way BMW is going to put an injector into an engine that will starve it. Modifying the engine changes the generality of the statement but as for the discussion, I personally don't believe 24 pound injectors are necessary for the S52, regardless of the NA mods. I've been trying to find what injectors the S50B32 and S54 use but it's some great big fuggen mystery.

btw, your v8 analogy doesn't really work as their redline comes much sooner. (you have to roughly multiply volume by peak rpm to compare)

How much sooner is much sooner? (I don't know which cars the 24 pounders are used but they're sold through the performance division so I assume they were on the higher end V8s)

static
04-24-2007, 03:50 PM
Well this discussion is about an S52 engine so ...

No! this discussion is about OBD1 head on an S52 block. Injectors are part of the head as far as i remember. OBD1 injectors are 17.5# an are definitely not enough for s52 bottom.

I doubt that american v8s can spin comfortably at 7Krpm

JazzM
04-24-2007, 10:55 PM
Even the M52 2.8L comes with 21.5# injectors. M20 came with 17.5#, not sure about the M50/S50 but I always thought it had 21.5# ones.

T.

static
04-24-2007, 11:06 PM
M20 did not come with 17.5#

Mystikal
04-24-2007, 11:36 PM
Even the M52 2.8L comes with 21.5# injectors. M20 came with 17.5#, not sure about the M50/S50 but I always thought it had 21.5# ones.

T.

All M52/S52: 21.5
All M50/S50: 17.5
M20B25: 14.2

Yep. M20 and M50/S50 injectors are puny.

Ian Sheppard
04-24-2007, 11:54 PM
All interesting stuff...Its all making me want to get the darn thing going soon!

static
04-25-2007, 12:05 AM
^^ oh i know that feeling *mumble*

can't wait to put mine back together for the first trillium autox

BigD
04-25-2007, 12:05 AM
No! this discussion is about OBD1 head on an S52 block. Injectors are part of the head as far as i remember. OBD1 injectors are 17.5# an are definitely not enough for s52 bottom.

I doubt that american v8s can spin comfortably at 7Krpm

The injectors have nothing to do with the diagnostics standard. Injectors always plug into the intake manifold. Yes some retards do keep the injectors that come with the OBDI intake manifold but let's not introduce that into the discussion.

The ones the 24 pound injectors are for probably can't hit 7 but 6500.

So does anyone know what the S50B32 or S54 came with? If those come with 24 lb/hr or higher flowing injectors, I'll concede.

SickFinga
04-25-2007, 08:37 AM
Just want to throw some of the things.

1. S50US cams fit S52, but S52 cams do not fit S50US. S52 cams have a counterbalance or something so they dont fit in the S50 head.
2. I think you are guys forgetting one thing. Injectors rating also depend on fuel pressure. For example, I know S/M52 got 3.5bar. My injectors are rated 36lbs/h @ 3bar, but at 3.5 they are 40lbs/h.

I tried to look up S50B30/32 and S54 injector rates before and like Dimitry said, its a big ****ing mystery. But here is what I dub up this time.


S50B30/S38B36 - Bosch # 0280150701
S50B32/S62 - Bosch # 0280150792
S54 - Bosch# 0280156052
S14 - Bosch# 0280150152
S52 - Bosch# 0280150440

According to this list
http://www.home.versatel.nl/mfeijts/SCARB/injectors.pdf
S50B30/S38B36 - 22.4lbs
S50B32/S62 - 23.3lbs
S14 - 22.5lbs
S52 - 19.8lbs

According to this list
http://www.injectorcleaning.co.uk/flow.htm (Claims those are manufacturer's data @ 3bar)
S50B30/S38B36 - 23.7lbs
S50B32/S62 - 24.2lbs
S54 - 24.5lbs
S14 - 23.5lbs
S52 - 19lbs

According to this list (Injectors they tested themselves @ 3bar)
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectordata1.php4

S50B30/S38B36 - 21.5lbs
S52 - 19.8lbs


According to this list @ 3bar
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:2htSjVPAoXgJ:home.online.no/~niande/diverse/annet/Boschdyser.xls+0280156052&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4


S50B30/S38B36 - 17.2lbs
S50B32/S62 - 18.2lbs
S54 - 18.2lbs
S14 - 17.7lbs
S52 - 14.3lbs

Conversion:
http://www.witchhunter.com/injectorcalc1.php4


Conclusion. WHO THE **** KNOWS, EXCEPT BMW AND BOSCH

SickFinga
04-25-2007, 09:31 AM
All M52/S52: 21.5
All M50/S50: 17.5
M20B25: 14.2

Yep. M20 and M50/S50 injectors are puny.


After doing the research in the post above, found out that M52B25 and M52B20 have 17.5 injectors

static
04-25-2007, 11:05 AM
The injectors have nothing to do with the diagnostics standard. Injectors always plug into the intake manifold. Yes some retards do keep the injectors that come with the OBDI intake manifold but let's not introduce that into the discussion.

The ones the 24 pound injectors are for probably can't hit 7 but 6500.


sounds to me that you are out of arguments, seems like you are pulling them out of your avatar :moon:
don't let me spoil your denial ;)

BigD
04-25-2007, 11:29 AM
sounds to me that you are out of arguments, seems like you are pulling them out of your avatar :moon:
don't let me spoil your denial ;)

I didn't post any argument, no need to be a bitch. I corrected you on the nonsense you wrote about injectors being part of the head (if you don't believe me, go open the hood on your car and look, instead of paying someone to do it).

Vlad: I didn't forget about the fuel pressure. This is about a specific setup, which does not normally include a fuel pump or regulator upgrade. Thanks for doing the legwork on the list though!!! Even though it shows the S54 using larger flowing injectors, look at the S38! So you're going to tell me that the S52, with a bigger MAF, is going to need 24 poind injectors when a 3.6 liter purebred M engine that revs to 7500+ from the factory, does just fine with basically that same injector (it seems, roughly 23-24 as we know them)? Don't buy it.

static
04-25-2007, 05:14 PM
I didn't post any argument, no need to be a bitch. I corrected you on the nonsense you wrote about injectors being part of the head (if you don't believe me, go open the hood on your car and look, instead of paying someone to do it).

hahah so you are all mucho now that you do all work yourself in the underground garage? don't be, cause sometimes it's makes more sense to pay someone with all the tools, hoist and knowledge to do a job, rather than half-assing your own in less than desirable conditions - and you well know it. And don't tell me i am lazy cause i know when it comes to car i am not.

oh an btw, I installed the injectors on my own, it's a piece of cake job. (even managed to pick up the cracked plastic injector tip that fell inside the manifold as i was pulling an injector out, without taking off the manifold - try to do that i dare you)

Jon@Bimmersport
04-25-2007, 05:19 PM
BigD doesnt need a hoist or engine crane...looks at his size :P.

Just because its a DIY, doesnt mean its going to be half assed...I remember you comming to our shop asking charlie for help as well, on something you were doing yourself...why dont you guys stop bitching and start working?

Then again, this is funny.

static
04-25-2007, 05:38 PM
Jonny, we are just joking

what i meant is there are easy jobs and there are hard jobs that require experience and tools for best results. I love to work on my car, but when things come to changing suspension bushing for instance, i wouldn't do it in my underground parking.
What i bitch about is the people who try to put me down in elitist tone by implying that i am a looser who can't do jack on my own so i hire someone to do it for me. The truth often is that they cannot afford professional labor, so any chance they get, they make themselves feel better by putting down others who can afford it.
As i said, i don't have time to spoil their denial.

apologies to the OP for being a part of thread hijacking, i am done with this.

BigD
04-25-2007, 09:01 PM
hahah so you are all mucho now that you do all work yourself in the underground garage? don't be, cause sometimes it's makes more sense to pay someone with all the tools, hoist and knowledge to do a job, rather than half-assing your own in less than desirable conditions - and you well know it. And don't tell me i am lazy cause i know when it comes to car i am not.

oh an btw, I installed the injectors on my own, it's a piece of cake job. (even managed to pick up the cracked plastic injector tip that fell inside the manifold as i was pulling an injector out, without taking off the manifold - try to do that i dare you)

Alright, this is the last time I'm going to write or say anything to you because I've had enough.

First off, a hardy "**** you" for implying that any of my work is half assed. I reiterate from before, if you're too damn chicken shit or incompetent to do the work, rocket science or not (which suspension bushings are not), keep your dilusions to yourself. We work on our cars because we enjoy it, not because we are poor, asshole. And if I don't know how to do something, I ask and read, from people who have done it. But unlike you, after that I don't go telling others what to do, I go do it myself.

I'm not macho about it, you just need to learn some humility finally. I don't give a shit if people disagree with me but don't go giving me attitude like "don't let me spoil your denial" when you don't even know where the damn injectors go (even though you claim to have replaced them).

Sometimes it does indeed make more sense to pay someone to do the work but you have no right to pretend to be any kind of authority on what was done after the fact. Before I actually started wrenching hardcore, I also read a ton of shit and thought I knew what I was doing. But when I started actually doing it, I started to see that there is a big difference between reading and doing. For one, half of the shit you read is a lie, half of the remainder is incomplete, some part of the remainder after you weed that out is one of the possible truths.

It's one thing to offer an alternative opinion but it is altogether another when you shut down others and speak with an attitude that implies you insist that you are the authority - when in fact you haven't done shit. Let me give you an example. When I was training for a 700 pound squat, I did a lot of sprints at the York track center for an explosive start. Every Saturday morning during one summer (and every now and then during others), Ben Johnson was there along with Charlie Francis (his coach, one of the greatest ever). I asked him for pointers and he said my foot mechanics are perfect, and I run very stable and upright, which most people can't do due to core weakness. I looked at Ben run like a bird, and he had his head down. I asked why he said my posture is perfect and if I should run like that. Francis said that this is the wrong form and I should never do that. But guess what!?!?! IT WORKS FOR JOHNSON! He is slower the other way, even though 99.999% of the sprinters in the world are slower the way he runs. So you, the aspiring sprinter, go out and read every article and forum post on running and you see Ben Johnson run. Are you then going to go up to him and start spewing bits that you read on sp.c or in whatever sprinting weekly article? And when he tells you it works for him, tell him "you're out of arguments, I'll leave you in your denial?" That is the equivalent of what you are doing. When he starts laughing at you, it's not because he is being elitist but because you're being a shit. Make no mistake about it, Johnson is a shit himself. But the reason people still seek his advice, despite the abuse they EXPECT to receive from him in addition to the eventual information, is that they desire it due to his EXPERIENCE and RESULTS. Remember Jordan on r3v? Why do you think people asked him all the time and not you, even though all he did was make fun of people for being so stupid and not knowing it themselves, before giving a good answer?

That's why people "put you down" - you ask for it. You go around spewing opinion and advice when your only basis for it is sketchy information written on the internet, and when anyone offers an alternative, you argue like it's your own first hand experience being questioned, and sometimes even belittle the other opinions. What you may eventually realize is that the information you contribute will never be seen by anyone serious as anything beyond a consideration. The reason for this is that with this kind of subject, the information is being requested to achieve a very specific, physical result. This is not someone wondering about global warming or some shit, where it's just for curiosity's sake. This is the person's pride and joy he is wrenching on so information from someone who has actually DONE the work as he plans to do, and their results, is infinitely more valuable than anything you could possibly contribute. And the completely unfounded condescending attitude just makes it that much more ridiculous.

/out

mirek
04-25-2007, 09:30 PM
sometimes it's makes more sense to pay someone with all the tools, hoist


I couldn't agree more. I would rather pay someone 120$ to replace my rusted and seized wheel bearing, than spend 6 hours doing it myself swearing up and down cause it won't come out. It has nothing to do with being a real car enthusiant bullshit, it just makes more sense.

Jon@Bimmersport
04-25-2007, 10:06 PM
oops what did I start? Sorry guys.

Axxe
04-25-2007, 10:57 PM
Holy shit.

In unrelated news, Charlie has found Candy Mountain, and they stole his kidney.

That is all.



EDIT: Ok, so I lied, that is not all. If you want to talk about halfass DIY, then a scotch taped sunroof, and stripping an interior and breaking half the shit is pretty halfass. Especially when you can't drive worth a damn.

static
04-26-2007, 10:02 AM
i am taking my discussion with BigD offline to avoid further crapping on the OPs thread.

Tomek: thank you for telling me what i already know
I still remember that time that you came to Charlie to help you with a fluctuating idle. I guess finding an airleak and changing a gasket was way over your head and you needed help.

T.Dot_E30
04-26-2007, 10:37 AM
The truth often is that they cannot afford professional labor, so any chance they get, they make themselves feel better by putting down others who can afford it.


haha, I have no problem with you paying someone to do your work, just dont pretend you know all this shit and can do it all yourself. Don't go around telling ppl what they should and shouldn't do or how they should do it.

Some people just have different priorities other than modding cars and paying rent.

I fix my own car and always will, not because i "can't afford it" but because I don't trust anyone else working on it, even thou its a POS 18 yr old car.

haha this thread is Hilarious, i'd contribute more.....but im not sure its even worth it anymore.

Axxe
04-26-2007, 11:53 AM
i am taking my discussion with BigD offline to avoid further crapping on the OPs thread.

Tomek: thank you for telling me what i already know
I still remember that time that you came to Charlie to help you with a fluctuating idle. I guess finding an airleak and changing a gasket was way over your head and you needed help.


LOL, thanks for remembering, I checked it over, and it wasn't a gasket, mr expert. It was a cracked throttle body, that's why the problem was intermittent.

Come back to me after you've done a dozen engine swaps, dozens of diff swaps, and many, many, many suspension rebuilds. Or is that shit to "over your head?" Honestly, just shut the **** up, nobody respects you, you are the laughing stock of maXbimmer, can't even ****ing keep up with stock m20 powered guys on a cruise. So, until you can actually....nevermind, nobody will ever respect your hearsay opinion.

static
04-26-2007, 12:16 PM
LOL, thanks for remembering, I checked it over, and it wasn't a gasket, mr expert. It was a cracked throttle body, that's why the problem was intermittent.

Come back to me after you've done a dozen engine swaps, dozens of diff swaps, and many, many, many suspension rebuilds. Or is that shit to "over your head?" Honestly, just shut the **** up, nobody respects you, you are the laughing stock of maXbimmer, can't even ****ing keep up with stock m20 powered guys on a cruise. So, until you can actually....nevermind, nobody will ever respect your hearsay opinion.

Whatever it was, it was over your head that why you came to Charlie for help, it's a fact, accept it.
Scotch tape was obviously a temporary solution. You talk about me half-assing when your last car was a latrine on wheels superficially?
And for the record, i lagged in the cruize because i was waiting on my buddy who was late, you well know my motor will rip on your m20 easily, why be an idiot?
Come back to you? You are the one who barged in this thread with nothing constructive or civilized to say. Come back when you grow up and stop acting like a little girl.
Since when you are the authority on max who decides who "everyone" respects or not? i never particularly looked for your approval.
You (you know who i mean) are just a bunch of jackals waiting to dive on a weakened, you think you will get any respect for what you do? maybe only among yourselves. I'll ignore your kindergarden from now on.

Axxe
04-26-2007, 12:58 PM
My old car was a latrine on wheels? Excuse me? Can you tell me of ONE thing that was halfassed about it?

BTW, a cracked throttle body isn't something you see everyday, you know?

"I almost spun out back there!" Does that ring any bells? Forks cruise, going through a simple turn, everyone saw you.

And yes, I know your S50 will rip on my M20 easily, but not with you driving it.

Also, ask ANYONE on maX whether or not they respect/like you. Everyone hated Jordan, but he knew his shit. Everyone hates you, and you know **** all, have nothing to back up your arrogance with. I'm not going to list names of the people that dislike you, but basically the entire E30 community thinks you are a joke, and we plan cruises to make sure you don't show up.

Don't call DIY'ers poor, anyone can take out a loan to build a car, that doesn't make you rich.

static
04-26-2007, 01:28 PM
My old car was a latrine on wheels? Excuse me? Can you tell me of ONE thing that was halfassed about it?

i said superficially, can you read? remember the famous brake ducts?


BTW, a cracked throttle body isn't something you see everyday, you know?
we both know you are BSing: you said it yourself back then that you were just lazy to figure it out.



"I almost spun out back there!" Does that ring any bells? Forks cruise, going through a simple turn, everyone saw you.

i was not sure what cruise you refered to (thought of bimmercruise), i dont remember delaying anyone after this turn, it was just a bit unexpected and i was upfront with it.


And yes, I know your S50 will rip on my M20 easily, but not with you driving it.

don't fool yourself


Also, ask ANYONE on maX whether or not they respect/like you. Everyone hated Jordan, but he knew his shit. Everyone hates you, and you know **** all, have nothing to back up your arrogance with. I'm not going to list names of the people that dislike you, but basically the entire E30 community thinks you are a joke, and we plan cruises to make sure you don't show up.

spoken like a true hater. Your idea of THE E30 community consisting of a few individuals similar to yourself is a big joke.
I am not interested in the "cruises" aka going fast mostly in a straight line on public roads, and thinking of it as a "community thing", while bashing the "others" who don't agree with you, and discussing/gossiping about them behind their backs.
If that's the e30 community, i want no part of it. That's not to say that there are quite a few individuals with e30s on this forum who are cool and who i respect even if it might not be mutual.


Don't call DIY'ers poor, anyone can take out a loan to build a car, that doesn't make you rich.
I only directed this at those who consider it a necessity to rub in the fact that i paid a professional mechanic for help. I always respected decent DIYers.

Axxe
04-26-2007, 03:28 PM
There you go, all arrogant again! Seriously, you shouldn't be giving out first person advice if you haven't experienced it yourself.

Also, I distinctly remember you calling me several times for advice, so you obviously value(d) my opinion. But that is irrelevant now.

There is a big difference between something being over one's head, and being to lazy to deal with it. I didn't come specifically for that, I was in the area with Neil (JMW), so I asked charlie and he took a quick look at it.

BTW, those brake ducts weren't halfass, they were 100% functional, and I was in the process of making a better setup (aesthetically).

static
04-26-2007, 03:51 PM
There you go, all arrogant again! Seriously, you shouldn't be giving out first person advice if you haven't experienced it yourself.

Also, I distinctly remember you calling me several times for advice, so you obviously value(d) my opinion. But that is irrelevant now.

There is a big difference between something being over one's head, and being to lazy to deal with it. I didn't come specifically for that, I was in the area with Neil (JMW), so I asked charlie and he took a quick look at it.

BTW, those brake ducts weren't halfass, they were 100% functional, and I was in the process of making a better setup (aesthetically).

well i am seeing the notable improvement in your civility and i thank you for that.
I had no problems with the look of your ducts, i am sure you'd improve them eventually, just like i am planning to improve the scotch-taped roof (it was also 100% functional in that it didn't leak when it rained) - i was just offended that you had to throw these things in my face for no apparent reason - hope you agree it was a bit aggressive, even though i understand you were "throwing your weight" (russian expression) in D's defense.
See, i am very understanding and reasonable guy, but i do tend to get defensive when people are being dicks.

Boots R
04-26-2007, 04:17 PM
My penis is bigger than yours...

static
04-26-2007, 04:42 PM
just wanted to mention that BigD had nothing to back his strong statements made by him earlier. (just actively ignored my polite request for explanations by email)

Mystikal
04-26-2007, 04:47 PM
I just read all of that, each one of you has some good points. Just calm down on the name calling guys, there is otherwise a constructive discussion here.

Oh, and I think you should all apologize to the poor thread starter.

Axxe
04-26-2007, 05:11 PM
Yes, sorry Mr. OP.

ACHTUNG
04-27-2007, 04:14 PM
What a shame. This started out as a great thread then went to shit. You loosers.