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burnhard22
04-23-2006, 11:44 AM
Hi all. I need help with my turbo.Ever since i have had it there's been issues.
Mark D tried to help but was unsuccessfully. I believe it's a timing issue but just can't nail it down. when I am on the trottle and hit approx 4000rpm there is a flutter sound and lack of power but if i'm easy on the throttle it does go thru but still flutters. Any good people/shops the you can recommend. could it be the MAFS?
I just want to be able to go thru all the gears without issues. after all it was to be a bolt on kit from Mossellman.
let me know techies,pls.
later

Euro_E30
04-23-2006, 01:18 PM
how much boost are you running?

Furious
04-23-2006, 02:31 PM
do you have a blow off valve? sounds like a leak somewhere?

_DIESEL_
04-23-2006, 02:55 PM
You are probobly maxim out your MAF if that's an issues you will have to get a voltige clip or make your own

How is your A/F it sounds like your leaning out at high rpm and full boost

What's kind of setup your running?

Mr. M-Tech
04-23-2006, 10:27 PM
PM MOTRONIX. He'll be able to help you out. *th-up*

bubsy12
04-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Are you using a manual boost controller?

If so i'd say check that first, remove it and run a straight vacuum hose to the wastegate. I had the same sounding problem... turned out that the MBC was not working correctly and caused the wastegate to stick open (thus the fluttering sound and lack of power since its dumping exhaust gases). If you don't have a MBC i'd say check the wastegate directly first.

RMPMOTORS
04-23-2006, 11:42 PM
Come by the shop or give me a call, and I am sure I can figure out your problem. I have alot of FI experience.


Rocco

Miguel
04-24-2006, 07:57 AM
+1 for Rocco and RMP

mpower1226
04-24-2006, 08:47 AM
its the same problem that me and my boys were having.

its the maf sensor related. the stock computer cannot see the boost, once it sees it thinks that somthing is wrong and put the car into limp mode(retard the timing). few things can be done, one of them is using missing link between the sensor and throttle body to release the pressure to blind the sensor so that com wont see the boost. OR you could use the s-afc to re set the map voltage setting. I dont know about your car but one the project car im doing, its suppose to be less then 3.0v but when it hits the boost it goes over and throw out the engine code and car goes into limp mode.

one your car, im sure its not using map sensor but something else, find out what it is, and same thing, measure the voltage and find out what it suppose to be. then reset the voltage or use missing link or check valve to correct the number or pressure to within its limit.


what engine is the turbo for? m42? if so how much boost are you using?
also did you upgrade the injector and pump? and whats controlling the fuel delivery system?

MarkD
04-29-2006, 06:14 PM
Hi all. I need help with my turbo.Ever since i have had it there's been issues.
Mark D tried to help but was unsuccessfully. I believe it's a timing issue but just can't nail it down. when I am on the trottle and hit approx 4000rpm there is a flutter sound and lack of power but if i'm easy on the throttle it does go thru but still flutters. Any good people/shops the you can recommend. could it be the MAFS?
I just want to be able to go thru all the gears without issues. after all it was to be a bolt on kit from Mossellman.
let me know techies,pls.
later

The only reason I never got it right is you have to leave the car for at least a day or two, not expect to drive it home 2 hours after you show up! You never seemed to have any real time to dedicate to this, just tried to fit it in to your busy schedule. There's no reason I couldn't make this work if you actually left it for me to see what's going on with it. I don't think anyone else is going to have success either if you drive buy for one or two hours.

Your car had other issues, like the screwed up fuel pump and rising rate FPR the other guy added etc. I don't appreciate you saying I could not get it running, when first we had to get the other issues solved.
Your car can easily be tuned to run properly, but not in 2 or 3 one-hour sessions, which is all I spent.
My plan was to convert your AFM system to a MAF, which is much better for FI cars. Anyway, good luck elsewhere!

Thank for the feedback. *thmbsdwn*

MarkD

djcontra
04-29-2006, 06:22 PM
did you upgrade your fuel pump yet?

burnhard22
05-01-2006, 04:13 PM
low boost 4-5psi

burnhard22
05-01-2006, 04:14 PM
Blow off valve=yes Not sure about any leaks at this point.

burnhard22
05-01-2006, 04:28 PM
Mark,
Don't take it personally. All I said was that it was working out. In regards to my schedule, I would make myself available or give the car to you if you told me the problem would be corrected over a certain time frame. I know the car had/has some other issues but that's part of tuning, atleast when trouble shooting as far as I know. I also assumed over a 3 year period there might have been something you could have done to correct the problem or head me in that direction but the contact seemed to deteriorate if I wasn't the initaing it all the time. Moving forward, if you still think you have something to bring to the table or can solve the issues over a certain time period, please let me know and I would be happy to meet with you again. I was just trying to get some/any input as I know guys are ruuning turbos with the same engine and must of had similar issues. What kills me is the Mossellman said the kit was bolt on-which doesn't seem to be the case. Mark, you are still on my Christmas card list or atleast your still one of my favourite M5 drivers on Danforth..lol
Ben*wave*

burnhard22
05-01-2006, 04:32 PM
did you upgrade your fuel pump yet?
Fuel pump upgraded. I believe this is where 1 of my problems lie.
Too many chefs in the kitchens...I have 2 fuel pumps that I know of a stock 1 and a Porshe fuel pump of some sorts. It was a quick fix to aviod running lean by my old mechanic. He also has a rising/fluctuating but I took out and put the stock one back in running 3bar as I was told to do by Mossellman and Mark D. I just want to bring it to 1 shop that knows what they are doing and not get raped to get it running as for the most part it is in just running like crap. Eg. at 4000rpm I get major hesitation in almost every gear when hard on the trottle. I'm almost ready to throw the f'er in the garbage as I was getting better track times with a stock engine with minor mods.
Tanks*uzi* *smoke*

MarkD
05-01-2006, 04:41 PM
Mark,
Don't take it personally. All I said was that it was working out. In regards to my schedule, I would make myself available or give the car to you if you told me the problem would be corrected over a certain time frame. I know the car had/has some other issues but that's part of tuning, atleast when trouble shooting as far as I know. I also assumed over a 3 year period there might have been something you could have done to correct the problem or head me in that direction but the contact seemed to deteriorate if I wasn't the initaing it all the time. Moving forward, if you still think you have something to bring to the table or can solve the issues over a certain time period, please let me know and I would be happy to meet with you again. I was just trying to get some/any input as I know guys are ruuning turbos with the same engine and must of had similar issues. What kills me is the Mossellman said the kit was bolt on-which doesn't seem to be the case. Mark, you are still on my Christmas card list or atleast your still one of my favourite M5 drivers on Danforth..lol
Ben*wave*

Ben,

I am sure I contacted you a few times telling you what the next step should be. Once I know you have a proper fuel pump in there, (and injectors) I can tune it. Honestly I need the car for a few days so I can test a few things on the dyno. It's not easy to do in just a couple of one or two hour sessions. The rising rate FPR's etc are bandaid solutions. I want to tune it properly with just 24 or 28 # injectors. If you want to bring it back, I'll talk to Rudy and schedule some time for it. Once we get it running, you may want to consider converting it to a MAF for even better results.

Mark

paul
05-01-2006, 05:34 PM
standalone is all i ahve to say,,,,,, stock pump should be ok for 5psi, injectors have to be upgarded, also check 4 boost leaks

MarkD
05-01-2006, 05:57 PM
standalone is all i ahve to say,,,,,, stock pump should be ok for 5psi, injectors have to be upgarded, also check 4 boost leaks


Good I'll remember all that *smoke*

paul
05-01-2006, 06:00 PM
i didnt mean it in a bad way, mark

MarkD
05-01-2006, 06:07 PM
i didnt mean it in a bad way, mark


Probably not, but the fuel injectors have already been upgraded. I think there is a new fuel pump in there...(there was some new pump but it may have been defective)
There's no reason to use any other ECU, trhe Motronic can easily do this job. Ripping it out and using something else is only done because many others don't know how to tune a Motronic. If you do, it can be used for this application.

Euro_E30
05-01-2006, 08:42 PM
the stock fuel pump should be more than enought to run 4-5 psi.

burnhard22
05-02-2006, 11:35 AM
Injectors were update I believe they are 22lbs...got them off NickP who has also offered me a MAF to try to see if that may be the problem.
Eitherway, I will try this first.
MARK-I will call you within 2 weeks, I am available May 19th weekend (so far) and June looks good too. Give me some dates when Rudy and/or you will be able to spend some time on it and I'll work it out.
Thanks
Ben
*th-up*
p.s I do have contacts in Nobelton/Bolton areas as well and will be looking for advice to bring to the table who have had similar issues. tks again*smoke*

MarkD
05-02-2006, 11:54 AM
Injectors were update I believe they are 22lbs...got them off NickP who has also offered me a MAF to try to see if that may be the problem.
Eitherway, I will try this first.
MARK-I will call you within 2 weeks, I am available May 19th weekend (so far) and June looks good too. Give me some dates when Rudy and/or you will be able to spend some time on it and I'll work it out.
Thanks
Ben
*th-up*
p.s I do have contacts in Nobelton/Bolton areas as well and will be looking for advice to bring to the table who have had similar issues. tks again*smoke*


Ben,

I need the injector part number so I can make a chip for them. I hope 22# is big enough, it seems to be barely adequate... I had mentioned to use 28#.
Is Nick offering a MAF or AFM? I don't want to swap in a MAF until it is running better as you can't just use any MAF, the output is not the same as an AFM.

MarkD

NickP
05-02-2006, 12:11 PM
Injectors were update I believe they are 22lbs...got them off NickP who has also offered me a MAF to try to see if that may be the problem.
Eitherway, I will try this first.
MARK-I will call you within 2 weeks, I am available May 19th weekend (so far) and June looks good too. Give me some dates when Rudy and/or you will be able to spend some time on it and I'll work it out.
Thanks
Ben
*th-up*
p.s I do have contacts in Nobelton/Bolton areas as well and will be looking for advice to bring to the table who have had similar issues. tks again*smoke*
AFM is sold - sorry... and I would agree with 28# or 30# injectors...



MarkD - any recommendations on which MAF to go with if you're upgrading anyways? Most people say that the Euro / v8 HFM hits 5 volts / flat line at around 8-9 pounds of boost in an s50. I would ASSume that the m20 wouldn't hit that limit at the same boost levels.

MarkD
05-03-2006, 06:06 PM
AFM is sold - sorry... and I would agree with 28# or 30# injectors...



MarkD - any recommendations on which MAF to go with if you're upgrading anyways? Most people say that the Euro / v8 HFM hits 5 volts / flat line at around 8-9 pounds of boost in an s50. I would ASSume that the m20 wouldn't hit that limit at the same boost levels.


I have not got any recommendation for FI cars yet. (I know what I would pick for a n/a M20). I wish I had a car to experiment with for a few weeks. If a MAF maxes out with a certain airflow, what you can do is remove the sensor from the body (tube) and insert it in a body with a bigger diameter, then it will not max out. But then you need to change the software to account for that. Maybe I just have to buy a project car and add a turbo, do all the magic on it and sell it afterwards. Anyway, the Bosch HFM5 as used on the E46 M3 is a possible MAF to use, but it's not a direct drop in. (both physically and electrically)

MarkD

NickP
05-03-2006, 06:29 PM
I have not got any recommendation for FI cars yet. (I know what I would pick for a n/a M20). I wish I had a car to experiment with for a few weeks. If a MAF maxes out with a certain airflow, what you can do is remove the sensor from the body (tube) and insert it in a body with a bigger diameter, then it will not max out. But then you need to change the software to account for that. Maybe I just have to buy a project car and add a turbo, do all the magic on it and sell it afterwards. Anyway, the Bosch HFM5 as used on the E46 M3 is a possible MAF to use, but it's not a direct drop in. (both physically and electrically)

MarkD
Hey Mark - just as a quick note - many in the BMW FI world wind up going with a Porsche 993TT MAF. Its a Bosch unit that's 3.5" in diameter and similar wiring to the e36 units.

You're more than welcome to my car to tune for a couple weeks but its not an m20 :)

MarkD
05-03-2006, 06:35 PM
Hey Mark - just as a quick note - many in the BMW FI world wind up going with a Porsche 993TT MAF. Its a Bosch unit that's 3.5" in diameter and similar wiring to the e36 units.

You're more than welcome to my car to tune for a couple weeks but its not an m20 :)


I'd be interested to know how they interface it to the Motronic and if it's all done in software, as I would do it or if they use some type of signal modifying box. Do you have any idea? Call me up if you want to discuss it.

Mark

SickFinga
05-03-2006, 06:35 PM
Euro M3 HFM should be fine.
RMS using it for their Stage II setup (11psi)
If you want more, AA uses 911 Turbo HFM

NickP
05-03-2006, 06:44 PM
I'd be interested to know how they interface it to the Motronic and if it's all done in software, as I would do it or if they use some type of signal modifying box. Do you have any idea? Call me up if you want to discuss it.

Mark

Porsche uses Motronic as well so I'm pretty sure that its done exclusively through the software / VQ Maps. The part number for the Porsche HFM is 0280217809... actually I looked up a picture looks exactly the same as a BMW HFM connector wise etc.

NickP
05-03-2006, 06:46 PM
Euro M3 HFM should be fine.
RMS using it for their Stage II setup (11psi)
If you want more, AA uses 911 Turbo HFM

Most people say the Euro / 540 HFM hits 5 volts before a decently set up Vortech puts out 11psi. I'm sure you can tune it to work with the HFM but it won't be optimal. But hey you're the one with the FI car - I say we go test it out :P

MarkD
05-03-2006, 06:51 PM
Porsche uses Motronic as well so I'm pretty sure that its done exclusively through the software / VQ Maps. The part number for the Porsche HFM is 0280217809... actually I looked up a picture looks exactly the same as a BMW HFM connector wise etc.

Correct. I've been thinking of converting an M20 and other motors with an AFM to a MAF, so wasn't thinking about the later cars that already have a MAF... it's actually quite a bit easier in that case.

MarkD

SickFinga
05-03-2006, 08:44 PM
Most people say the Euro / 540 HFM hits 5 volts before a decently set up Vortech puts out 11psi. I'm sure you can tune it to work with the HFM but it won't be optimal. But hey you're the one with the FI car - I say we go test it out :P

Ooops just noticed you already posted about 911TT hfm. :)

Anyway, I did test out my HFM but my car not exactly running perfectly as you may know.
Here they are, they were done in neutral though(don't know if it matters)
at idle 0.96v
4k rpms 2.28
6k 3.16

I also know a person that has a 430rwhp car on euro hfm.