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propr'one
12-13-2005, 11:20 AM
Ok I got my car scanned again (thanks again rico*wave*)

These errors came back:
F6- secondary air system flow too low, cyl 4-6
F5- secondary air system flow too low, cyl 1-3
E6- pre-cat oxygen sensor response time, cyl 4-6
02- ignition coil, cyl 4 (see below)

Nothing about the Throttle Position Sensor this time (i cleaned the connector, that might've been it)

The ignition coil has been explained to me very well already (thanks cisco911 & qwk325), but the other codes im not at all sure about. Im assuming E6 means i need to replace a 02 sensor. What are the other two? The first time i got the codes i had a dirty air filter, thought that might've caused it, but i've since replaced the filter with a brand new one, and cleared the codes, and yet they've come back.


Any idea's guys?

cisco911
12-13-2005, 11:55 AM
Hey again, I think that the F6 and F5 are dealing with your air pump. You have a secondary air pump that in the morning pumps fresh air into the engine upon startup (for the first few minutes) and then shuts off. It might be seized, broken or the secondary air valve might be rusted out or broken. If its the pump itself, well, prepare some money cuz its an OE only part and it is not cheap. If you have to replace it, replace the vlave as well because BMW will not warranty the pump if the valve is not replaced. Lets hope it is just the valve though :) As for E6, you need to replace the O2 sensor. Usually when one goes, the others are about to go too ( I know you replaced one already). Sounds like you have yourself some expensive repairs on your hands. Good luck and I hope it doesn't get too expensive for you

propr'one
12-13-2005, 12:02 PM
01 AIR PUMP 1 11721744490 $312.48

(im assuming that's the air pump you're talking about)

but which air valve?

any tips on how to check if the air pump is working or its just the valve?

cisco911
12-13-2005, 12:07 PM
"Secondary air valve" - in the morning when its cold, have someone start the car while you have the hood open and see if the air pump comes on. You will hear it because it sounds kinda like a vacuum cleaner. If it doesn't come on, then it might be the pump. If you have a battery and jumper wires, you can disconnect the air pump plug and try to dive it power to see if it comes on.

propr'one
12-13-2005, 01:07 PM
Ok just checked the secondary air pump (driver side right next to panel?)

definatly starts humming as soon as car is started, seems to be working just fine. Any other tips?

cisco911
12-13-2005, 01:21 PM
then most likely its the valve.... you will see two pipes coming out of the pump. One goes to a valve that attaches to the top of the exhaust manifold. I think there is a metal pipe that leads down from the valve. This is probably the problem. Its hard to check to see if this part is defective, without removing it, but if you can remove the rubber hose attached to it(coming from pump) and look inside, see if you see corrosion inside. Most likely this valve is f*cked or ceased. And yes, what you pointed out is the air pump. Make sure it is running freely and doesn't sound like its slow or ceasing.

cisco911
12-13-2005, 03:32 PM
wow, wow, your looking on the wrong side of the car!!! I misread your post. I thought you said passenger side. What your pointing to is the cruise control unit. Don't worry about that. See this pic below. See the pipe that goes along the fender and ends by the windshield washer tank....that pipe connects to the air pump in the corner. Thats the air pump. Thats what needs to make noise on startup. see pic below
http://gabe.ume.maine.edu:16080/play/vehicles/bmw/Pages/Engine__straight_6__2_8L.html

Follow the other pipe that connects to the air pump(rubber) and that leads to the valve......sorry for the confusion :(

propr'one
12-13-2005, 04:37 PM
ok the air pump definatly aint doing squat. But does it always turn on after ignition or only on a cold start? car is fully warm i was just running some errands. Gonna check the valve now:(

bmdbley'sBro
12-13-2005, 05:13 PM
They have a similar thang on VW vr6's it's just for emmissions..
it leans out a cold starts richness tp pass emmissions regs/

on the VR there was a Relay & a huge 50amp fuse..
on my VR all this crap was green with corrosion my relay was ratling inside too.

in any case i didn't need a pump jsut a new relay & sanding some leads.
hope its similar for Bm's.. :confused:

propr'one
12-13-2005, 05:18 PM
well the pump does NOTHING, so i think its broken. 380 from maranellos. valve is 140 from maranellos. I can get the pump for about 280 new, and valve for about 120. Ima try some parts cars first hopefully.

cisco911
12-13-2005, 08:04 PM
Hey. before you buy one make sure you test it. It will only come on during cold start, so try again tommorrow morning to see if it comes on. If not, you might be stuck and need a new one. If you get the new stuff make sure you get a new gasket for the valve because the old one will come off in pieces. However, it is a pretty easy install. You can do it yourself if you are handy with a wrench. Ooh, and make sure u don't break the rubber mounts on the pump because you will need those.

propr'one
12-13-2005, 08:57 PM
i dont really understand what this air pump does, other than tripping my CEL it doesn't seem adversley affect anything

thinair
12-13-2005, 09:13 PM
The air pump is strictly an emmissions thing. It pumps extra air into the cats to lower emmissions, only when the cats/engine is cold. I know once I do my headers the secondary pump is being tossed. There are sec. pump simulators available to buy as well. And you car will still pass emmissions provided it has been warmed up properly.

jeffrie
12-13-2005, 09:21 PM
Could you simply disconnect the air pump or would you throw a O2 sensor code on start up?

propr'one
12-13-2005, 09:48 PM
Nelson, then what are my error codes caused by?

propr'one
12-14-2005, 01:47 PM
bump

SickFinga
12-14-2005, 01:57 PM
Could you simply disconnect the air pump or would you throw a O2 sensor code on start up?


It wont throw o2 sensor CEL, since they are 2 different things.
If you remove the pump, your check engine light will turn on. Like Nelson said, there is a simulator for it. So once your remove it, plug in the simulator, your CEL will not turn on anymore.

Propane, your codes are caused by a faulty secondary air pump. Get a new one, do not buy a used one, because they go pretty often.

propr'one
12-14-2005, 03:07 PM
Ok sorry for swaying back and forth on this guys. I toyed with the air pump yesterday, cleaned the valve a bit, and now the pump definatly does work, and is sucking air. (im not sure if its getting enough, i'd guess about as much at the same rate as an average exhale)

Any other ideas about why my cilders aint getting enough air? or should i just start new thread?

any ideas at all guys?