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View Full Version : Why is Mercedes dying???


Simby
04-19-2005, 12:33 AM
It shocks me to find out recently that Mercedes is doing really poor and is actually pulling down Chrysler. Hard to imagine! Mercedes sales IMO are strong, cars ain't cheap, and maintenance costs you a bundle. What's causing them to do so bad?

What kind of financial shape is BMW in?

AMG_POWER
04-19-2005, 12:38 AM
are they really? havnt heard of that!

Ant118
04-19-2005, 12:38 AM
Mercedes has always been high priced cars and there maintiance where always killers, Bmw is doing fine i would seem cause there moving all there products now to the people who have money. Because non of the new bmw's are like what they used to be, what i mean by that is that the 91 M5 was a way better car (handling braking, etc. ) then the 01 and up.

MB is in trouble because they had like 1.8 billion recall, and there having problems with there tiptronic systems

Raging Lamb
04-19-2005, 12:51 AM
Mercedes will not die. They are too powerful, and have been in it for too long to 'die'. They could cash their assets and eat money for the next 1000 years and live.

Ant118
04-19-2005, 12:55 AM
Benz is one of the Richest Manufactrues out there.

bimmer_02
04-19-2005, 05:38 AM
i think that MB is the only manufacturer out there that are still on the right track. Look at BMW's new designs, the new 3-series, 5-series and 7-series are ALL SHIT comparing to the old models, they are ruining most models, i think most people would agree on this one. On the other hand, i find it hard to think of ONE MB design that is "UGLY". I really don't know their finacial status or how good thier sales are, im just talking from an enthusiast's point of view.

johnoz
04-19-2005, 05:55 AM
Benz is the largest commercial vehicle manufacturer in the world. Their passenger cars division (like other most German makers) might be going through a 'transition period' but when you use an extreme verb like dying, that would be an over exagguration.

Once Benz will move it's production from Germany to much cheaper places like Poland, China etc, they will get back into the game much stronger(financially). But will their cars have that legendary reliability fame from the 60-70-80s? That is a question that I am curious to see the answer.

SickFinga
04-19-2005, 06:11 AM
what i mean by that is that the 91 M5 was a way better car (handling braking, etc. ) then the 01 and up.



Yeah sure, thats why E60 M5, runs circles around e34 m5

jeffrie
04-19-2005, 08:25 AM
^^^ reason Mercs are loosing money is that they were still building Quality cars that lasted, too much cheap crap that can outperform the heavier well built cars.
Geuss people only buy for a few years now and no longer care to keep them for awile.
No worry Merc has now a Mexican plant running out second rate cars for the American market for all of us North Americans who want the name more then the real thing. OMI.

jeffrie
04-19-2005, 08:26 AM
Reason Mercs are loosing money (in passenger car department) is that they were still building Quality cars that lasted, too much cheap crap that can outperform the heavier well built cars.
Geuss people only buy for a few years now and no longer care to keep them for awile.
No worry Merc has now a Mexican plant running out second rate cars for the American market for all of us North Americans who want the name more then the real thing. OMI.

tlaselva
04-19-2005, 10:08 AM
Yeah sure, thats why E60 M5, runs circles around e34 m5

Ya, that quote made me laugh out loud too..... :D

Got to love people that delude themselves in thinking that the older BMW's preform better than the new ones.....

M50E30
04-19-2005, 11:02 AM
....and there maintiance where always killers....

Wrong. Mercedes Benz is cheaper to fix than BMW.

Rampage
04-19-2005, 11:09 AM
Mercedes is having trouble because the smart line of cars is continuing to loose money like crazy.

sirex
04-19-2005, 11:19 AM
^^ are you sure about that

Rampage
04-19-2005, 11:34 AM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050402/RTICKERITEM02/TPBusiness/International

http://www.wintonsworld.com/cars/carnews/carnews-2005/daimlerchrysler-smart.html

Ant118
04-19-2005, 02:02 PM
Listen man the new M5 has so much handling problems when i was watching Speed channel in Stutgart. It has so much body roll from watching it and even Hans Stuck said that (Bmw's Factory Racer). Not to offend any of the newer M5 owners but i think the older M5 was the real M5 1987-1992. I took the 02' Bmw M5 for a test drive at Town and Country like a year ago, when i hammered it off the line so ****ing guy in a civic smoked it, so your gonna say that is a betterut there machine, give me a break. it may be faster top end, but the bottom end is garabe. The new Bmws are going for Luxury, not for the greater good of performance like how the older ones where designed, even the new M3's. THERE too HEAVY. to much crap that you dont need (GPS, HEAVYER SEATS, ETC). They new M cars really make me sad because im a gigantic fan of the M cars doesnt matter which one but these ones are not what they used to be, there going for the market that Benz is in Luxury and performance. But there performance of the the new M cars do not live up to its rep. That is just my oppion. Now you may have different, but now ever manufacter can almost or smoke majority of the bmw line up. Example: New GTO can smoke the E46 M3 on the track seen it on Speed vision. Even the vettes are smoking the Bmw's that never used to be true until now.

Raging Lamb
04-19-2005, 02:20 PM
^When did the E46 come out? And when did the GTO come out? Since when does 0 - 60 define a car's performance? You got smoked off the line by a civic in an M5, so now the M5 is garbage bottom end? You'd rather own a civic? Give me a break.

tlaselva
04-19-2005, 02:48 PM
Listen man the new M5 has so much handling problems when i was watching Speed channel in Stutgart. It has so much body roll from watching it and even Hans Stuck said that (Bmw's Factory Racer). Not to offend any of the newer M5 owners but i think the older M5 was the real M5 1987-1992. I took the 02' Bmw M5 for a test drive at Town and Country like a year ago, when i hammered it off the line so ****ing guy in a civic smoked it, so your gonna say that is a betterut there machine, give me a break. it may be faster top end, but the bottom end is garabe. The new Bmws are going for Luxury, not for the greater good of performance like how the older ones where designed, even the new M3's. THERE too HEAVY. to much crap that you dont need (GPS, HEAVYER SEATS, ETC). They new M cars really make me sad because im a gigantic fan of the M cars doesnt matter which one but these ones are not what they used to be, there going for the market that Benz is in Luxury and performance. But there performance of the the new M cars do not live up to its rep. That is just my oppion. Now you may have different, but now ever manufacter can almost or smoke majority of the bmw line up. Example: New GTO can smoke the E46 M3 on the track seen it on Speed vision. Even the vettes are smoking the Bmw's that never used to be true until now.

Keep on trying to justify your older M3 with this B/S.
Classical psychological self defense.
Your only fooling yourself... :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, there is an appeal to the E30 M3 that the E46 M3 can't match. But the E46 M3, stock for stock will SMOKE your E30 M3 on a track.
Your deluding yourself by thinking otherwise.

Your comparison that a Civic smoked you in a M5, I'm not even going to justify that nonsense with an answer.

SickFinga
04-19-2005, 03:08 PM
The new Bmws are going for Luxury, not for the greater good of performance like how the older ones where designed, even the new M3's. THERE too HEAVY. to much crap that you dont need (GPS, HEAVYER SEATS, ETC).


GIVE ME A BREAK.
M3 CSL is a more track car than E30 M3 ever was.

ROCKETMAN
04-19-2005, 03:10 PM
Once Benz will move it's production from Germany to much cheaper places like Poland, China etc, they will get back into the game much stronger(financially). But will their cars have that legendary reliability fame from the 60-70-80s? That is a question that I am curious to see the answer.

I dont think thats neccessary. In fact, I think that would definetly be even worse. If theyre built in china or mexixo or w/e, their reputation can be damaged. Theres no need to move to get back on track. Just gotta figure things out within th ecompany and products. Audi makes all their cars in Germany (except the TT, but thats still in Europe, Hungary) and theyve been making record sales 11 years straight. Its ecause of their product. Benz just needs to figure taht out, no move to cheaper manufacturing solutions.

SickFinga
04-19-2005, 03:12 PM
I dont think thats neccessary. In fact, I think that would definetly be even worse. If theyre built in china or mexixo or w/e, their reputation can be damaged. Theres no need to move to get back on track. Just gotta figure things out within th ecompany and products. Audi makes all their cars in Germany (except the TT, but thats still in Europe, Hungary) and theyve been making record sales 11 years straight. Its ecause of their product. Benz just needs to figure taht out, no move to cheaper manufacturing solutions.


Audi is making record sales for 11 years straight????
Please, it sells less cars than BMW or Benz.

ROCKETMAN
04-19-2005, 03:15 PM
Audi is making record sales for 11 years straight????
Please, it sells less cars than BMW or Benz.

Yeah i know. I was talking about "their" sales. Meaning setting larger sales figures than their previous year. Meaning never had a sales lump like benz is apparently having now, im 11 years. Meaning continuosly growing without pause.

johnoz
04-19-2005, 03:34 PM
I dont think thats neccessary. In fact, I think that would definetly be even worse. If theyre built in china or mexixo or w/e, their reputation can be damaged. Theres no need to move to get back on track. Just gotta figure things out within th ecompany and products. Audi makes all their cars in Germany (except the TT, but thats still in Europe, Hungary) and theyve been making record sales 11 years straight. Its ecause of their product. Benz just needs to figure taht out, no move to cheaper manufacturing solutions.

Actually I am not suggesting that but pointing out the inevitable result. Any German maker that is paying their labour at a German rate is doomed to lose this game.

Besides move is not only because of the wages but because of the aging population and decrease in the internal market. Most car manufacturers will move into China for example not because of cheap labour only but also active internal market.

jeffrie
04-19-2005, 03:36 PM
^^^ If it weren't for VW, Audi would have gone under long ago but glad they kept up with their build quality and Euro only built policy but it doesn't make them the $$$ they deserve. Hope the cheap crap everyone is making is just a fad and fades away in my lifetime.
As for the "M" discussion.... Why can't BMW use E46 M tecnology in a E30 M light weight layout? That would be a nice M3 IMO, or is all that extra size & weight needed to keep it's speed/traction on the track.

johnoz
04-19-2005, 03:57 PM
Why can't BMW use E46 M tecnology in a E30 M light weight layout? That would be a nice M3 IMO, or is all that extra size & weight needed to keep it's speed/traction on the track.

It is coming. The M version of 1 serie. Even the 103i version has promising Nurnburg Ring time.

These Nring times reveal the 130i's 8:35 time manages to beat many bigger,more expensive and powerful cars! It even beats near-supercars like Maser 3200 and Brabus-tuned C-class with a 8-banger!!
Zonda 7:44
murcielago 7:50
M3 CSL 7:50
911TT 7:56
ferrari 360 challenge 7:56
997 8:00
diablo 8:04
fer 575M 8:05
NSX type R 8:09(276hp only!)
996 8:17
vanqush 8:17
c5 special 8:18
Z8 8:18
RS6 8:20
Aston DB7GT 8:23
RS4 8:25
SLK32 AMG 8:26
Audi S4 8:29
M-B CLK55 AMG 8:29
BMW Z4 8:32
BMW Z3 Coupe 3.0i 8:34
> BMW 130i 8:35 (with ultraskinny 205/50-17er tyres)
M-B SportsCoupe Brabus V8 8:35 (tuned car with 430hp!!)
MB C32 AMG 8:37
Impreza Gt 8:37
S2k 8:39
Morgan Aero 8 8:39
Civic type R 8:47
Renaultsport Clio V6 8:49
Alfaromeo 156GTA 8:51
Maserati 3200GT 8:57
Golf V6 4motion 9:09

Ant118
04-19-2005, 04:25 PM
listen dont get me wrong the E46 is a grate everyday driver but i would never track that care i think the E30 is a better handling and over all car (2.5L Euro, not 2.3L). And I was talking about the CSL a stock M3 nothing like that.

BMWF1
04-19-2005, 07:05 PM
Mercedes has always been high priced cars and there maintiance where always killers, Bmw is doing fine i would seem cause there moving all there products now to the people who have money. Because non of the new bmw's are like what they used to be, what i mean by that is that the 91 M5 was a way better car (handling braking, etc. ) then the 01 and up.

MB is in trouble because they had like 1.8 billion recall, and there having problems with there tiptronic systems

Dude seriously do you have any idea what you are talking about. MB would outlast BMW anyway you look at it, look at the financial statements MB isn't going anywhere

BMWF1
04-19-2005, 07:07 PM
GIVE ME A BREAK.
M3 CSL is a more track car than E30 M3 ever was.

vlad your never gonna get thru to some of these guys, to many E30 lovers that think its the end all.

vertakul
04-19-2005, 09:55 PM
SickFinga your car alone is more of a track car than an E30 M3 .. it'll make better times for sure.. In this case.. newer is better.