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View Full Version : S54 into an E36


MarkD
04-01-2005, 06:12 PM
Here are some pictures of an S54 in an E36:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/images/e36S54a.jpg

http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/images/e36S54b.jpg

http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/images/e36S54c.jpg

http://www3.sympatico.ca/mdsylva/images/e36S54d.jpg

The transplant was done by Munich Motors.

I was there today to sort out some issues with the DME going into limp-home mode since the speed sensors normally on the front wheels are not present.
(motor would only rev. to 6400) Now it goes all the way to over 8K *th-up*

I had a spin in Tom's Z3, and got his DME fixed up also. His car is a rocket now!

MarkD

irvz
04-01-2005, 06:41 PM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Gianpaolo_E46
04-01-2005, 06:45 PM
damn thats nice...must have cost serious $$ though, while he was at it he should have dropped in a supercharger

MarkD
04-01-2005, 06:50 PM
damn thats nice...must have cost serious $$ though, while he was at it he should have dropped in a supercharger


What for? I'm waiting for some guy with a s/c M3 to have a little drag with Mike. I think you will find that with the lighter car and diff he has, it would be a close match, so why spend money on the s/c?

When I was in it today for testing, I realised how fast this is. I'll have some video later.


MarkD

Rampage
04-01-2005, 07:19 PM
Nice!! That would be an awesome ride!

Looks good in there!

BMWF1
04-01-2005, 07:55 PM
thats a fukin squeeze

Miguel
04-01-2005, 08:10 PM
Great work.... too bad the owners are complete jackasses.

thinair
04-01-2005, 08:13 PM
Personally I'd rather have the S54, then a blown M52, but Miguel is right about the owners. I've never been so shunned and ripped off by any other shop.

Miguel
04-01-2005, 08:17 PM
Personally I'd rather have the S54, then a blown M52, but Miguel is right about the owners. I've never been so shunned and ripped off by any other shop.
My story is that I had a deal worked out with Tom to buy his ZF tranny and vanos unit.

I went to the shop to pick it up one day (we agreed to a time) and surprise surprise... shop closed.
The next day I get a call that there is someone at the shop ready to buy the ZF tranny and if I dont go there NOW he is going to sell it to the guy.
I told him to **** off and go ahead and sell it.

I have nothing against Tom and I wish the deal had gone through but the shop screwed him nicely on that one. I'd love to hear the story they probably told him though :rolleyes:

BMRMAN
04-01-2005, 08:59 PM
Fawk, an S54 in my 328 would be all that I need!! For now :D
What would a conversion like that cost???

Sickbimmer
04-01-2005, 09:50 PM
What for? I'm waiting for some guy with a s/c M3 to have a little drag with Mike. I think you will find that with the lighter car and diff he has, it would be a close match, so why spend money on the s/c?

When I was in it today for testing, I realised how fast this is. I'll have some video later.


MarkD

I still think that the blower would cost a couple of G's less. but that is unique *th-up*

EMPOWERD
04-01-2005, 10:36 PM
Nice Mark... I heard they do good work, too bad their customer service (like so many shops we're hearing) sucks ass. Didn't they do an S60/E46 conversion too? Where about's they located?

raffa
04-01-2005, 10:56 PM
Mike, the owner was going to swap M5 V8 in to his E46 M3. That's what he told me a year ago. I am not sure if he's done it.

MarkD
04-01-2005, 11:42 PM
Personally I'd rather have the S54, then a blown M52, but Miguel is right about the owners. I've never been so shunned and ripped off by any other shop.


Have you and Miguel actually been there? I have not had that experience yet. Does it feel as bad as getting reamed by Osh?

MarkD

MarkD
04-01-2005, 11:45 PM
My story is that I had a deal worked out with Tom to buy his ZF tranny and vanos unit.

I went to the shop to pick it up one day (we agreed to a time) and surprise surprise... shop closed.
The next day I get a call that there is someone at the shop ready to buy the ZF tranny and if I dont go there NOW he is going to sell it to the guy.
I told him to **** off and go ahead and sell it.

I have nothing against Tom and I wish the deal had gone through but the shop screwed him nicely on that one. I'd love to hear the story they probably told him though :rolleyes:


I had not heard about this. I'll mention this to Mike (the owner).
I try to associate myself with places that have a good reputation, so this is disapointing to hear.

MarkD

MarkD
04-01-2005, 11:50 PM
Nice Mark... I heard they do good work, too bad their customer service (like so many shops we're hearing) sucks ass. Didn't they do an S60/E46 conversion too? Where about's they located?


Munich Motors is at 73 Alness St, unit 9. North York.
(Dufferin and Finch area)

I don't think they did an s60/E46 yet, but Mike is telling me I should drop an S60 into my E34 M5. If it was just a regular 5 series, I'd do it. But I'm not going to change a really nice example of an E34 M5 into a hybrid.

MarkD

raffa
04-01-2005, 11:54 PM
How much did Mike sell that S54 engine for,does anybody know. Last year he was asking $8k.

P.S. That should be the engine that went in to Z3.

Miguel
04-01-2005, 11:59 PM
Have you and Miguel actually been there? I have not had that experience yet. Does it feel as bad as getting reamed by Osh?

MarkD
I have been there. Small shop, not much to look at.
I would never have expected such a great swap to come out of such a shitty little shop.

As for getting reamed, I did not personally get cheated out of anything but time and patience.

MarkD
04-02-2005, 12:12 AM
I have been there. Small shop, not much to look at.
I would never have expected such a great swap to come out of such a shitty little shop.

That proves that you shouldn't always judge a book by it's cover. I have a cheap old website also, but I develop and sell generally good products. And didn't you ever meet a hot chick that was an airhead? It's unfortunate that everything revolves around salesmanship and flash. People that just have a good product and don't B.S. often don't get the sale. I'm just saying this as you walk into his shop and say it's not so hot, but he has very good diagnostic equipment that many shops will never have, and access to people like the guy who interfaced the DME into the car and got it running, and me to get the final touches wrapped up.


As for getting reamed, I did not personally get cheated out of anything but time and patience.

That's good. I don't think Mike would do that. Sorry about the time and patience. I'll mention it to him.

MarkD

Miguel
04-02-2005, 12:30 AM
That proves that you shouldn't always judge a book by it's cover. I have a cheap old website also, but I develop and sell generally good products. And didn't you ever meet a hot chick that was an airhead? It's unfortunate that everything revolves around salesmanship and flash. People that just have a good product and don't B.S. often don't get the sale. I'm just saying this as you walk into his shop and say it's not so hot, but he has very good diagnostic equipment that many shops will never have, and access to people like the guy who interfaced the DME into the car and got it running, and me to get the final touches wrapped up.

The reason this event sticks out in my mind so vividly is because of just what a prick he (whoever it was that called me from Munich Motors the next day) was.

He could have the best product in the world for all I care... his attitude and outright rudeness that day was inexcusible. This wasnt so much a case of "not BS'ing" as it was downright arrogance.

I didn't know if he REALLY had a person there at that moment to buy the tranny (that was promised to me and would have ALREADY been mine if he was there the day before as mutually agreed upon), but he put me on the spot the next day and in a DO THIS OR ELSE position.
That's good. I don't think Mike would do that. Sorry about the time and patience. I'll mention it to him.

MarkD
Don't bother, my guess is that he'll shrug it off. Feel free to give him a kick in the ass for me though *wiggle*

My $0.02, they do a great job if you are willing to pay out your ass and put up with their shit.
*edit*I just re-read my last line and it sounds strangely familiar... eerily Osh-ish from what I've read.

Rush
04-02-2005, 01:38 AM
I actually got a chance to drive it ... it's increadably fast(especially off the line), but I felt that it needed more torque.

thinair
04-02-2005, 02:40 AM
Have you and Miguel actually been there? I have not had that experience yet. Does it feel as bad as getting reamed by Osh?

MarkD

How could I have been ripped off without going there??

I bought a set of "M kingpins/spindles", which I needed to do an M brake conversion. A couple days later I get to work on my car, remove the wheels, brakes, wheel bearings, struts, control arms, abs sensors, everything attached to the spindle. I bolt up the spindles, bolt on the wheel bearings and rotors, only to realize that they had sold me 325 spindles. The stock brake bolt up fine, but the M brakes do not, they would have if I had M spindles. Lots of work for nothing, only to tear everything apart again and return to stock so I could continue driving my car.

Sickbimmer
04-02-2005, 07:27 AM
I brought my car there, and on the way home I noticed that the piping for the superharger came off and the air filter as well. God knows how much dirt went into my engine.

JazzM
04-02-2005, 08:55 AM
Miguel; I can't vouche for mikes actions with regards to the tranny sale as I wasnt' there. I had him get everything ready and it was; that is as far as my input into this was since I was working in the US at the time. I don't know what Mike told you, or hasn't said - again, I wasn't there. Perhaps that was my fault, but I do believe I acted in good faith throwing in the Vanos unit at no charge (my old engine blew). I believe your hostility towards me is a little bit misguided.

Anyways, I'm the guy with the first swap which went into my Z3 (97 2.8). The car will be picked up on Monday/tuesday next week since it needs an alignment.

With regards to the torque comment, the z3 has a 4.10 LS differential, plenty of torque :) The 328 has an e36 M3 diff.

T.


The reason this event sticks out in my mind so vividly is because of just what a prick he (whoever it was that called me from Munich Motors the next day) was.

He could have the best product in the world for all I care... his attitude and outright rudeness that day was inexcusible. This wasnt so much a case of "not BS'ing" as it was downright arrogance.

I didn't know if he REALLY had a person there at that moment to buy the tranny (that was promised to me and would have ALREADY been mine if he was there the day before as mutually agreed upon), but he put me on the spot the next day and in a DO THIS OR ELSE position.

Don't bother, my guess is that he'll shrug it off. Feel free to give him a kick in the ass for me though *wiggle*

My $0.02, they do a great job if you are willing to pay out your ass and put up with their shit.
*edit*I just re-read my last line and it sounds strangely familiar... eerily Osh-ish from what I've read.

JazzM
04-02-2005, 09:05 AM
coversion cost:

Motor: $8,000.00 (with all accessories)
6sp. Tranny: $4,000.00 (includes shortening/balancing of driveshaft, modification of shift linkage)
Install: ca. $5,000.00 (depending on required parts, labour, electrical work, etc.)
Mark's software: <b>priceless</b>... :D for everything else, there's Munich motors...LOL.

All jokes aside, biggest head-ache with this transplant is integrating the electrical components (ecu) to comuicate with the rest of the body (sensors, cluster, etc...) Even to get the engine to start (EWS)! That's where the majority of the time is spent.

T.

JazzM
04-02-2005, 09:08 AM
here's my writeup earlier: http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50342

T.

Miguel
04-02-2005, 09:43 AM
Miguel; I can't vouche for mikes actions with regards to the tranny sale as I wasnt' there. I had him get everything ready and it was; that is as far as my input into this was since I was working in the US at the time. I don't know what Mike told you, or hasn't said - again, I wasn't there. Perhaps that was my fault, but I do believe I acted in good faith throwing in the Vanos unit at no charge (my old engine blew). I believe your hostility towards me is a little bit misguided.

T.
Tom, please don't get me wrong.. I have NOTHING aginst you!
I now this wasn't your fault, in fact I thought you would be pissed since the tranny wasn't purchased as planned.

Dude, I've been in your Z3 back when it was supercharged and I hope to go for a ride with the S54. Im pissed with MM not you.

Cheers
*wiggle*

Ant118
04-03-2005, 01:03 AM
There is a E46 that has a that has a 02' M5 V8 in it, its done by Hartge, i could show you the video but i dont know a good place to host it?

330DTM
04-03-2005, 03:18 AM
There is a E46 that has a that has a 02' M5 V8 in it, its done by Hartge, i could show you the video but i dont know a good place to host it?


I'm pretty sure the that video is lurking somewhere on the net. I saw that video like 3 years ago.

thinair
04-03-2005, 05:02 AM
Don't forget the V12 from the 850i in an E36ti :)

Rampage
04-03-2005, 01:11 PM
Don't forget the V12 from the 850i in an E36ti :)

wow!! Any pics?

MarkD
04-03-2005, 01:20 PM
Don't forget the V12 from the 850i in an E36ti :)

Technically, an S54 into an E36 is much harder to do than an S60 into an E46.

This is because it's harder to get the S54 DME communicating with the electronics in an E36. The E46 non-M electronics are very close to the E39 M5 electronics, so it's not too hard to graft the M5's DME into the E46 communication bus.

And dropping an older 850i motor into an E36ti is mainly a matter of fitting it in, the electronics will work quite easily. I have no interest in a car like that, it must be very heavy up front. It's probably only good at the drag strip.

JazzM's (Toms) car and the E36 will good on the street also.

MarkD

thinair
04-03-2005, 02:11 PM
And dropping an older 850i motor into an E36ti is mainly a matter of fitting it in, the electronics will work quite easily. I have no interest in a car like that, it must be very heavy up front. It's probably only good at the drag strip.


The 5.6L S70 weighs 165kg, the 3.2L euro S52 weighs 156kg. The S54 should weigh about the same. It's an extra 9kg/20lbs. A carbon hood would make the difference. I'm not much of a fan of the V12's with the two ECU's and such, plus the maintenence of two of everything, and 12 spark plugs....it was just an example. Although 388hp and 406ft-lbs do sound nice :)

Ant118
04-03-2005, 06:37 PM
Here is the Info on the Hartge V8 M3;

Hartge H50 E46 V8 Info

General Information
Price: $120,000
Miles Per Gallon: --/-- mpg
Curb Weight: 3520 lbs
Layout: Front-Engine/RWD
Transmission: 6-Speed Manual

Engine
Type: V8
Displacement: 4941 cc
Horsepower: 394 bhp @ 6600 rpm:eek:
Torque: 369 lb-ft @ 3800 rpm
Redline: ---- rpm

Performance
0-60 mph: 4.5 sec:eek:
0-100 mph: 10.2 sec
Quarter Mile: 12.9 sec @ 113 mph
Skidpad: .89g
Top Speed: 180 mph
Braking, 60-0 mph: 119 ft
Slalom Speed: --.- mph

Other Info
Hartge took the M5 V8 engine and placed it into the E46 3-Series. Other modifications include a higher rev limit and a reprogrammed chip.

Heres the Vid: http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2GU5FZMN8LT8Z1YFTL5OTC93GB

Here are a few Pics

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 09:35 PM
^^^^ 12.9 1/4? trap speed is not that bad tho, e55 gets 116 to 118 max....

How much is to drop the m5s engine to the m3? Or to buy the m3 w/ m5 engine in it?

Ant118
04-03-2005, 09:43 PM
How much is to drop the m5s engine to the m3? Or to buy the m3 w/ m5 engine in it?

Hard to say because you need to find out if anyone is sell the engine with everything (computer,engine,drivetrain,key,etc), then the labour to do it, and the only M3 with any M5 engine ive seen for sale is the E30 with a 91-93 M5 engine

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 09:57 PM
How much would m5 engine cost?

Ant118
04-03-2005, 09:59 PM
^^ Not really sure but i could find out

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 10:01 PM
^^^ do you know apprx. ? like 7 - 12 grand? would it fit in a normal 3 series?

Ant118
04-03-2005, 10:08 PM
im guessing like yea 7-12k probibly but a normal 3 series E46 hmm maybe cause if it fits in the M3 then it should fit into a E46 330, but dont hold it to me ,lol

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 10:11 PM
im guessing like yea 7-12k probibly but a normal 3 series E46 hmm maybe cause if it fits in the M3 then it should fit into a E46 330, but dont hold it to me ,lol


Well hartge fited m5 engine in a regular 3 series from what i saw in a video section... would be pretty cool to drive up to an m3 in a normal 3 series and kick its ass lol.... how much would work cost?

Ant118
04-03-2005, 10:15 PM
um im guess like 2-3grand but not to sure, but that car would be one sick sleeper on the street but what yea gonna do about the 4 exhausts out the back lol

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 10:21 PM
um im guess like 2-3grand but not to sure, but that car would be one sick sleeper on the street but what yea gonna do about the 4 exhausts out the back lol

You can do 2 LARGE ones on the side ;)

Hm thats a good idea... :confused: I'll think about it... :cool:

M5 engine in this car! that would be a sleeper.

Is there a site where they sell used engines and stuff?

http://home.online.no/~krimp/sweb/images/e46%20325iT%20167-6784_IMG.JPG

Ant118
04-03-2005, 10:24 PM
There is i dont know it off my head, i give my friend a call who deals with importing engines and cars and gets all kindas stuff in ill give you his direct phone number 2morrow i dont have it on me

MarkD
04-03-2005, 10:25 PM
You can do 2 LARGE ones on the side ;)

Hm thats a good idea... :confused: I'll think about it... :cool:

M5 engine in this car! that would be a sleeper.

Is there a site where they sell used engines and stuff?

http://home.online.no/~krimp/sweb/images/e46%20325iT%20167-6784_IMG.JPG

Call Mike at Munich Motors, 416-665-1605 if you are seriously interested. He can find the motor also.

MarkD

Ant118
04-03-2005, 10:27 PM
Yea AMG that would be sick in that plus i love the alpina rims on that

raffa
04-03-2005, 10:30 PM
One M5 V8 (engine) was for sale on the ebay a few weeks ago, I think "buy now price" was $15K USD. Regarding instalation in the E46 I have no doubt that is possible. Room under the hood is greater than in the E30 and that engine was allready swaped in the E30. I did S38 conversion (91' M5 engine) in my E30. S38 is the longest & tallest engine in the reacent BMW history (S38 after 1991 has huge thermostat housing mounted in front of the timing chain,older S38 don't), so I don't see any problems fitting it in.

P.S. What ever engine will cost,add that much more for other parts that you will need to complete the job,plus labour,and make sure that who ever does it knows his S@#T!

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 10:31 PM
Call Mike at Munich Motors, 416-665-1605 if you are seriously interested. He can find the motor also.

MarkD

Yes im intrested, but if im gonna do that i'll do that end of the year... because i might let go my E55 at the end of the year... *sad* With the baby on the way, i think it would be more reasonable to get an SUV like New ML... And a toy track/ Sleeper car for me !! :)

Ant118
04-03-2005, 10:35 PM
^^ If you put a M5 engine in that Wagon it will crazy fast but im not sure how heavy it is cause of the handling. If you watched the video you saw waht that engine did with a heavier car that the wagon, so ur exits of the cornors you will have to watch cause there wil be nothing but smoke and black tire marks

raffa
04-03-2005, 10:40 PM
S62 (M5 V8) is 158Kg. S54 (E46 M3) is 148Kg.

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 10:43 PM
well maybe it would be a better idea to get a coupe ... i like both coupe and touring version!

Ant118
04-03-2005, 10:57 PM
well the coupe would handle better one the track but if you didnt get the coupe i would get a normal 4 door cause that handles even better

Ant118
04-03-2005, 11:04 PM
AMG if your really interested in the M5 swap you can call Marcus Glarner, i think he does the best bmw work ever. Ive i think some guys on the fourm know him, it would be suprising. But he might be very booked for that reason. MarkD im not trying to put your friend down but im just saying this because Marcus is know all over for his perfect craftmanship on bmw's, he is the only one i will let work on my car

JazzM
04-03-2005, 11:04 PM
Mike and I thought of the M5 engine route, but its much too much work, and very costly. Everything from custom engine mounts, etc, etc... a lot more mechanical work involved. Along with a lot of custom fabrication as well, not to mention something trivial like th steering column fitting under the headers (on both sides of the engine).

I know that rouge engineering is attempting this in a z4 as we speak.

T.

AMG_POWER
04-03-2005, 11:26 PM
Mike and I thought of the M5 engine route, but its much too much work, and very costly. Everything from custom engine mounts, etc, etc... a lot more mechanical work involved. Along with a lot of custom fabrication as well, not to mention something trivial like th steering column fitting under the headers (on both sides of the engine).

I know that rouge engineering is attempting this in a z4 as we speak.

T.

Now z4 must get alot of wheel spin! that car is light!

Ant118
04-03-2005, 11:28 PM
i dont think you would be able to control the car if you hammered it lol , you would be side ways or doin donuts

MarkD
04-03-2005, 11:38 PM
AMG if your really interested in the M5 swap you can call Marcus Glarner, i think he does the best bmw work ever. Ive i think some guys on the fourm know him, it would be suprising. But he might be very booked for that reason. MarkD im not trying to put your friend down but im just saying this because Marcus is know all over for his perfect craftmanship on bmw's, he is the only one i will let work on my car


Actually I have known Markus for over 20 years. And yes he is good. But I don't think he has the time for a project like that, unless you want it finished in 2010.

MarkD

Ant118
04-03-2005, 11:43 PM
Yea same i known him since i was born i knew his son Rudy since we where like 1 but my father knew him for like forever, but that is true on him not having time, but i was just pointing out him for his talents and also if he does do it i would say to get it serviced there cause the magic he did on my dad 91 M5 was Gold and same with our others

MarkD
04-03-2005, 11:55 PM
Yea same i known him since i was born i knew his son Rudy since we where like 1 but my father knew him for like forever, but that is true on him not having time, but i was just pointing out him for his talents and also if he does do it i would say to get it serviced there cause the magic he did on my dad 91 M5 was Gold and same with our others

Does your father race an M3? If so, I think I know who he is.

MarkD

Ant118
04-04-2005, 01:34 AM
No my father is not Bob Munro, i know him too, and Aram, if u know him. I dunno if you know my dad, if you have been up there lately my car is the white E30 M3 and the purple E36 M3 (which is now sold), he also had a 91 M5 black. He worked on that car when markus was back in the markham shop. And about 20 years ago he had a blue Porsche Targa with him. My father also help markus move all his stuff from the old shop to the Port perry shop, and also pave his drive way with our old backhoe. His name is Allen or AL

AMG_POWER
04-04-2005, 02:11 AM
Would somthing like 3 series with s62 engine be street legal?

thinair
04-04-2005, 02:23 AM
Would somthing like 3 series with s62 engine be street legal?

If it passes emissions, and if you're not going from OBD2 to OBD1, it should be ok. I don't know how the insurance will handle it though.

Mitch555
04-04-2005, 12:05 PM
S60 into an E36...

JazzM
04-04-2005, 12:49 PM
That looks like a M62 4.0 or 4.4L V8, not the <b>S62</b> M5 motor...

M5 has a different manifold design with two inlets, nor does it have a signle throttle body... ;)

http://users.telenet.be/BMW_Pics/25.jpg

T.

raffa
04-04-2005, 09:30 PM
Hi, AMG POWER

I can do this swap for you, if you are interested you can visit me in my shop & take look at my car (E30S38). That will give you an idea about the work that I do. My insurance knows about all the modiffications and I had no problem insuring the car. They also required car apraisal before they insured it. Emissions is not a problem at all. There is the way to test the car without listing it as a hot rod. Send me e-mail if you are interested, or if you have any questions @ raffa0304@yahoo.com. Hopefully I answered some of your questions regarding E46S62 being street legal.

thinair
04-04-2005, 09:45 PM
Hi, AMG POWER

I can do this swap for you, if you are interested you can visit me in my shop & take look at my car (E30S38). That will give you an idea about the work that I do. My insurance knows about all the modiffications and I had no problem insuring the car. They also required car apraisal before they insured it. Emissions is not a problem at all. There is the way to test the car without listing it as a hot rod. Send me e-mail if you are interested, or if you have any questions @ raffa0304@yahoo.com. Hopefully I answered some of your questions regarding E46S62 being street legal.

What insurance company are you with if you don't mind me asking??

raffa
04-04-2005, 10:31 PM
I don't mind. I am insured with Security National Insurance Company

thinair
04-04-2005, 11:30 PM
I don't mind. I am insured with Security National Insurance Company

Thanks, I'll have to check them out. *th-up*

app
04-05-2005, 01:44 AM
Security National is also Monneaux Monnoche or something like that.