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Dr.MooCow
03-15-2005, 11:33 PM
i was just wondering why you guys think BMW is so great? im mean sure, they look awesome, but what els makes them good? you could go get a wrx sti for the same price, and its faster


(no offence to any BMW owners or anything..im just wondering)

Shuller1458
03-15-2005, 11:35 PM
Yes, I actually have exactly the same question. Sti, seems so tempting.

Dr.MooCow
03-15-2005, 11:52 PM
yah, sti has a higher top speed then the 325 and that seems to be the car of choice here, and 0-60 time(not sure about 1/4 times, but im guessing the sti is faster in that too) so why? why BMW?






and is just me or is every one ignoring my posts? lol

Shuller1458
03-16-2005, 12:00 AM
I do not ignore your post :)

rico328i
03-16-2005, 12:22 AM
Go take one out for a spin. Have you done that before? Then make some comparisons.

Yes. The STi is damn fast, and it can be made to go VERY fast. It's no cheapy though. With the same comparisons, speed that is, buy a Mustang!

With BMW's. It's not all about speed. In my opinion, it's about the whole package. And as the saying goes....at the end of the day....which car would you be most happy with?

All comes down to personal taste. And THIS IS A BMW forum BTW!

Rico328i

Bavaria
03-16-2005, 12:33 AM
well for one, the BMW is not just a sports car, its also a luxury in every way, hence the price and do not forget the history behind the car, BMW are beautiful machines inside and out, even in the 1980's BMW's looked sexy, if you want to compare an STI to a Really good sports BMW, compare it with the M3, go to the dealership and ask for a test drive, you will leave the car with a huge smile on your face, for instance compare it to any benz the are supercharged(the AMG) and look at the bimmer, it can compare very well ad its not supercharged or turboed, it has a BMW team, it has a GTR team, it had very good results at le mans, it has 4 inlines for the lower class, V6 for the more richer, V8 for the power freaks, and V12 for the luxury bigs....i dont know what you want more than that, luxury, speed, sex.....its a mans thing ;)

BMWF1
03-16-2005, 12:37 AM
nothing makes bmw so great, they are overpriced and represent a social standing, thats about, there not any better then most other cars, alot of people won't admit to that but i know its the truth. just something that gives the impression that ur higher on the social ladder.

T.Dot_E30
03-16-2005, 12:52 AM
find me a late 80s subie thats in as good condition as some e30s.

They aren't anything special, jus built better, more refined.

Raging Lamb
03-16-2005, 01:01 AM
Why BMW? I needed a car that yelled: "I'm an asshole". And no other brand communicates this message better than BMW.
Every time I drive this car, people look at me like I'm an arrogant prick; there's nothing more satisfying than that.

M3ti Compact
03-16-2005, 01:20 AM
Straight line speed is not really the BM strong suit...it's the fun to drive factor. When you turn the steering wheel, the car reacts INSTANTLY. There is no lag time, there is no push, no lack of feedback. No other car i've driven (and I've driven a lot) is able to come close.
When all other cars hit 100km/h in 2nd, you have to go to 3rd- which means you can enjoy one more sweet redline before breaking any traffic laws.

About the WRX, sure it's faster...but...have you seen the interior???

Jordan
03-16-2005, 01:25 AM
yah, sti has a higher top speed then the 325 and that seems to be the car of choice here, and 0-60 time(not sure about 1/4 times, but im guessing the sti is faster in that too) so why? why BMW?

So let me get this straight. You are compating Subarus flagship top of the line car, to BMW's base model bottom of the line shitbox? Thats a riot.

One of my friends has a new WRX STi. A couple months ago he was next to me on a double lane street and we both gunned it. 2nd/3rd gear pull from 40-70MPH and I walked on him BAD. This is in a 1987 325iS. Needless to say this is him now: *mumble*

Jordan
03-16-2005, 01:26 AM
V6 for the more richer
Excuse me?

paul christians
03-16-2005, 01:30 AM
I6 not v6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bavaria
03-16-2005, 01:35 AM
sorry, im used to going to another forum where they talk about jap cars!
my bad
Inline 6
sorry jordan :P

Bavaria
03-16-2005, 01:37 AM
nothing makes bmw so great, they are overpriced and represent a social standing, thats about, there not any better then most other cars, alot of people won't admit to that but i know its the truth. just something that gives the impression that ur higher on the social ladder.


crack is bad for you
get out :P

Eurostyle
03-16-2005, 02:12 AM
A lot of history and tradition...like most other German cars. You look at any year/model BMW, and you know what it is...Cant be mistaken for anything else (unlike so many other new cars these days). Same for the driving experience...There are things that cant be measured...as easy as 0-60 or 1/4 miles...

maxx318i
03-16-2005, 02:17 AM
i wont even bother commenting, waste of my and your time and space on this forum.

All I can say Dr.MooCow is: Take one out for a spin. Even the 320i, the experience, is truly ultimate.

Just let's not fight here. ;)

lvan
03-16-2005, 02:26 AM
Recently I hear this trash talk How lexus ,Infinity and other Jap cars are dominating the automotive industry and bmw lives from its name....I really dont want to judge since I only onwed E30 but it's strange....I still think BMW wont let Japanese cars swing by .....Can someone state some facts where BMW stands since many people say Lexus ,Infinity and other japs are the best...Maybe it's just ricer talk...

SebSter
03-16-2005, 02:41 AM
Performance aside. I drive a 15 year old bmw, when I look at the interior of most other cars it makes me sick.

Alezone
03-16-2005, 06:52 AM
This should be a sticky.

myndgone
03-16-2005, 07:52 AM
About the WRX, sure it's faster...but...have you seen the interior???

:D *th-up*

dude, i had a GTP, supercharged, chipped, cammed, for a lot less money than my 540i, a lot faster, but after driving the 540 I would NEVER sit in my old car again...

SRT-4s are faster than some bimmers and they're under 20 grand, maybe we should compare those too?! *no-no*

Quack
03-16-2005, 09:01 AM
actually SRT-4's cost $26g base, after options & tax it's over $30g, but still a fast car, but the interior is cheap though

EMPOWERD
03-16-2005, 09:10 AM
It's not so much about how fast the cars are, rather how they deal with the speed. A BMW will always feel controlled at speed with it's over-kill brakes and infinite steering input. You can't compare the overall cars' fit & finish with "lesser" brands (Subaru or GTP's) either.

But let me tell you this... IT'S NOT THEIR NEW LOOK THAT MAKES THEM GREAT!!!

King Luis
03-16-2005, 09:26 AM
The quality in the materials BMW uses compared to other manufacters can be a million times better. the interoir of my brother's mazdaspeed protege and the e30 interior isn't to much different quality wise. plus the style and look, imo is just gorgeous.

btw Jordan: whats your sig??i know its a engine and tranny but it looks like it's see through.

Shuller1458
03-16-2005, 09:32 AM
ok, guys, you helped me to strengthen my confedence in BMW purchase. I am getting a Bimmer :)


P.S. only they brake down more then regular cars. that's suxs.

Raging Lamb
03-16-2005, 09:41 AM
...You look at any year/model BMW, and you know what it is...Cant be mistaken for anything else

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

aziz
03-16-2005, 09:46 AM
cars are cars......but then there are things like looks/handling/feel good factor/resale value/many bmw forums/bmw haters/bmw wannabes/more sex lol-->good enough for me.

King Luis
03-16-2005, 09:49 AM
P.S. only they brake down more then regular cars. that's suxs.

i would have to disagree....if you do the required maintance it should be breaking down more then regular cars.

daytona
03-16-2005, 09:53 AM
I dont honestly think BMW is the greatest car for the buck but for pure statis symbol and the fact it has a enduring design makes it on many short list of mid luxury cars...I driven cars that runs smoother,handles better and bascially a better car than a 3 or 5 series BMW but the design is what attracts me to the car...Porsche is coming out with a four door sedan I think,,that be something......

chromius
03-16-2005, 09:55 AM
ok, guys, you helped me to strengthen my confedence in BMW purchase. I am getting a Bimmer :)


P.S. only they brake down more then regular cars. that's suxs.

Who says they break down more? Thats a pretty generalized statement. be more specific as to what cars you are comparing to...

I've got a 16 year old e30 with 300,000km and have done no major repairs, just maintenance, and it runs like brand new, still get good gas mileage, I have taken cross country road trips, with no problems, and I trust it every day as my daily driver, and it has never let me down...I would say thats pretty reliable. I know people with chevy's where the head gasket blew after 150,000km, and where their cars are in at the shop every couple of weeks.

I will agree that BMW reliability has gone down slightly over the years, but that is not to say they are not reliable, they are just a little less reliable from the older models. Still very good cars. :)

Shuller1458
03-16-2005, 10:07 AM
Interms of realability issue I mean: I went around BMw shop and ask them to give opinions on 3 and 5 series models for modifications. And most of them told me that you have to FIX existing problems in order to take it for a hard spin or start to modify. (specially, 540 with it's cooling problems:pumps, gaskets, hoses, rads leak all the time.)

GEEE$
03-16-2005, 11:49 AM
One of my friends has a new WRX STi. A couple months ago he was next to me on a double lane street and we both gunned it. 2nd/3rd gear pull from 40-70MPH and I walked on him BAD. This is in a 1987 325iS. Needless to say this is him now: *mumble*


hahahaha...that was a good laugh! :D

It's too bad that could never happen, EVER. Thumbs up for making me laugh though. *th-up*




G$

Shuller1458
03-16-2005, 12:10 PM
Why not? maximum weight reduction, maximum power output from turbo or supercharger (might) = " I walked on him BAD."

GEEE$
03-16-2005, 12:24 PM
Why not? maximum weight reduction, maximum power output from turbo or supercharger (might) = " I walked on him BAD."



You've obviously never driven either to compare, cuz if you have, then you'd realize how ridiculous this post was.




G$

Dr.MooCow
03-16-2005, 12:28 PM
ok...im convinced, im now looking for a bimmer!

duenorf
03-16-2005, 12:30 PM
Every car has it's good and bad points. BMW is no different than any other car out there. You gotta decide what you are looking for and how much you are willing to pay for it. Yes, BMW makes a good product, but there have been good/bad years and good/bad models. A couple of sites to check out to add to the opinions here are:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/recalls/recallsearch.cfm
and http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/bmw.html
The hidden kicker is to make sure you know of a good $tealer or independent to do work on your car. (if you aren't going to do it yourself). Just because you spent big $$'s on your ride, doesn't mean you won't be visiting the shop now and again, so hanging out in the customer service dept at around 5pm can get very educational ;) It's all part of the BMW experience. A crappy service department can ruin your day.

maxx318i
03-16-2005, 12:58 PM
ok...im convinced, im now looking for a bimmer!

haha... You will not regret buying and owning one.. it'll be prolly the best purchase of your life *th-up*
Cheers

maxx318i
03-16-2005, 01:01 PM
Recently I hear this trash talk How lexus ,Infinity and other Jap cars are dominating the automotive industry and bmw lives from its name....I really dont want to judge since I only onwed E30 but it's strange....I still think BMW wont let Japanese cars swing by .....Can someone state some facts where BMW stands since many people say Lexus ,Infinity and other japs are the best...Maybe it's just ricer talk...

Yep, ricer talk, nothing more. :D Euro-made cars were, are and will be the best manufactured vehicles in the world.

ara325
03-16-2005, 01:54 PM
Yep, ricer talk, nothing more. :D Euro-made cars were, are and will be the best manufactured vehicles in the world.

A lot of the time it's the component parts that make or break a car. As far as the Germans go, when you look under the hood all the electrical parts are Bosch...an incredibly reputable name. Many domestic manufacturers use cheaper parts so they can keep their prices down thus competing on price rather than quality. While every car ends up in the shop at some point or another, i think that German cars typically make less visits to the shop.

Jap cars are great as well...to be honest, I think Honda is one of the best manufacturers in the world. Thier cars (like German cars) go forever...the rust usually kills the car before the motor dies.

Derrick
03-16-2005, 01:56 PM
Well i was truely debating weather or not to make a contribution to this thread or not, but i guess it got the better of me.First off technolegy is pretty much shared across the board for manufacturers.So to dispute weather or not which car is better or which car is faster or breaks down more is is kind of lame.You can only compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.To compare a bmw to a subaru is kind of like comparing a kia to rolls royce.To diffferent ends of the spectrum.Bmw is who they are because of customer service,reliability,and manufacturer and customer relations.There has never been a time when i have ever walked into a service center of a bmw dealer and felt like some one on a conveyor belt.They are very acomadating as far as i am concerned.I am 35 years of age and have had pretty much a different varity of automobiles,so i have an idea of what i am speaking of.As they say you pay for what you get.Also you buy a car for how it makes you feel,and from the day that i bought my car nearly 7 years ago i stil feel the same every time i get into it.

Eurostyle
03-16-2005, 02:50 PM
But let me tell you this... IT'S NOT THEIR NEW LOOK THAT MAKES THEM GREAT!!!

So right!!! and SO sad *sad* *sad*

BigD
03-16-2005, 02:52 PM
V6

ban.

e36chick
03-16-2005, 02:54 PM
i never realized how much power these cars have, til i went test driving for my 328is. Before this car, i drove almost all Chevy's, the most powerful being an 80 camaro. but that felt like a big, sluggish boat compared to the 328's instant responses and handling. i cant wait til i get my car, and highly doubt i'd buy another brand now.

erikIS
03-16-2005, 03:01 PM
Yep, ricer talk, nothing more. :D Euro-made cars were, are and will be the best manufactured vehicles in the world.

Yes, i think im going to start believing in the tooth fairy and santa claus before that happens

SkycityBMW
03-16-2005, 03:06 PM
"If you have never driven a BMW . . . then . . you haven't driven." *th-up*

Jordan
03-16-2005, 03:17 PM
hahahaha...that was a good laugh! :D
It's too bad that could never happen, EVER. Thumbs up for making me laugh though. *th-up*

STi's have shit ass low end tq, he was out of his power band and had to spool up the turbo before he could go anywhere. I have lots of low end tq, and my car weighs like 1/3 less then his.

Don't call me a liar. I was there, I spanked him, and he was pissed. End of story.

saix
03-16-2005, 03:18 PM
"If you have never driven a BMW . . . then . . you haven't driven." *th-up*

Got that right, when I took my bros E30 *pos btw cause he dosent keep it in shape* it was so fun to drive except my foot getting caught above the clutch when releasing :/

saix
03-16-2005, 03:19 PM
STi's have shit ass low end tq, he was out of his power band and had to spool up the turbo before he could go anywhere. I have lots of low end tq, and my car weighs like 1/3 less then his.

Don't call me a liar. I was there, I spanked him, and he was pissed. End of story.

When has jordan lied? jordan is a genius so dont challenge him.

ara325
03-16-2005, 04:15 PM
STi's have shit ass low end tq, he was out of his power band and had to spool up the turbo before he could go anywhere. I have lots of low end tq, and my car weighs like 1/3 less then his.

Don't call me a liar. I was there, I spanked him, and he was pissed. End of story.

STI's weigh 3500 lbs? seems a little heavy...that's getting into mid-large size cars, no?

what's an e30 weigh...2200 lbs or so?

EDIT: Don't STI's have like 300 ponies?

chromius
03-16-2005, 05:05 PM
subaru sti curb weight 3298....

So its a heavy beast. no doubt.

ara325
03-16-2005, 05:13 PM
subaru sti curb weight 3298....

So its a heavy beast. no doubt.

WOW, that little thing is 3300 lbs. Jordan's point makes tonnes of sense then.

thinair
03-16-2005, 05:53 PM
Here are my reasons for liking BMW. They're solid, the first BMW I was even in was my uncles e28 518. It wasn't fast, but it was comfortable, cornered and breaked really well for a car it's size. I remember shitting my pants taking onramps with my uncle driving.

The second BMW I experienced was another uncles 3.0CS. That was probably the fastest car I had been in at that point in my life. And my uncle drove the shit out of it.

Then after our sedan got smashed up, my parents went car shopping, and showed up with a e34 525iA. I honestly expected them to get an Mercedes, but ok. I didn't like it much at first (I think I was very biased because it was auto), then again I spent most of my time in the back seat (until I was allowed to drive it anyway). The first time I took it out, it was awesome. It cornered better then anything I had driven (up to that point), the braked extremely well, and for a heavy car with a smallish engine, it pulled pretty good. The first day i drove it I just kept accelerating until I found the speed governer. Even at 206km/h where it shuts down, it wasn't overly noisy. I was actually able to set the cruise control on at 205km/h and it would hold it. I was able to take my hands off the wheel (not recommended) and the car tracked straight, no viberations it was awesome. It was that exact point that I wanted one, but smaller, sportier, and faster.

Then my best friend bought an e36 318is. That just made me crazy, the cornering was nuts (bilstein sports on Eibach springs), the braking at speed was awesome. The interior was great, I had to have one.

So I bought one, and I have no regrets yet what so ever. I drive my car like it was meant to be driven, and I have yet to have much in the way of required maintenence aside from oil changes, and control arm bushings. Everything else that I have changed has been for modding reasons.

BTW, Jordan, so if an STi weighs 3300lbs or whatever, your car weighs 1100lbs??? 1/3rd right?

M3ti Compact
03-16-2005, 06:26 PM
^ 1/3 LESS than...making it 3300-1100=2200lbs

thinair
03-16-2005, 06:35 PM
^ 1/3 LESS than...making it 3300-1100=2200lbs

Yes, I'm slow *wiggle*

Jordan
03-16-2005, 09:15 PM
The STi is 3300lbs.
My e30 is just shy of 2700lbs.

Also HP isn't everything, you have to take TQ (what really moves the car) into account. More then anything think driveline loss!. STi's have a heavy AWD system that uses alot of the engines work to put the final power to the wheels.

Most of us have BMW I6's, and I think this will ring a bell... you are driving around town in 4th gear, and floor it to pass etc. Your engine makes great low end TQ and will pull until you let up. A STi (and all other boxer 4's I've driven) WILL NOT do this. The before mentioned STi should be making 330BHP with the mods he has done. In 4th gear at 35MPH he can hold the pedal to the floor indefinately. It will not increase speed let alone spool the turbo.

My e30 with its various modifications should be at most 8-12% driveline loss. Which is pretty low.

paul
03-16-2005, 09:34 PM
The STi is 3300lbs.
My e30 is just shy of 2700lbs.

Also HP isn't everything, you have to take TQ (what really moves the car) into account. More then anything think driveline loss!. STi's have a heavy AWD system that uses alot of the engines work to put the final power to the wheels.

Most of us have BMW I6's, and I think this will ring a bell... you are driving around town in 4th gear, and floor it to pass etc. Your engine makes great low end TQ and will pull until you let up. A STi (and all other boxer 4's I've driven) WILL NOT do this. The before mentioned STi should be making 330BHP with the mods he has done. In 4th gear at 35MPH he can hold the pedal to the floor indefinately. It will not increase speed let alone spool the turbo.

My e30 with its various modifications should be at most 8-12% driveline loss. Which is pretty low.i can tell u guys whats bmw shit is two things . plastic intake amnifolds and shit paper headgaskets just my 0.02 cents *thmbsdwn*

5style
03-16-2005, 09:39 PM
^ about the bosch comment, my peugeot's parts are about 89% bosch, and they live up to their name. The car, deemed unreliable, has not failed me once, and i have yet to do an overhaul on it. Thats why bmws hold up so well, its the great parts in them.

thinair
03-16-2005, 09:39 PM
i can tell u guys whats bmw shit is two things . plastic intake amnifolds and shit paper headgaskets just my 0.02 cents *thmbsdwn*

What is wrong with the intake manifolds?? I've never heard of one fail.

M3ti Compact
03-16-2005, 09:41 PM
What is wrong with the intake manifolds?? I've never heard of one fail.

Didn't you watch FnF? You can blow the welds on them! *wiggle*

Jordan
03-16-2005, 09:42 PM
i can tell u guys whats bmw shit is two things . plastic intake amnifolds and shit paper headgaskets just my 0.02 cents *thmbsdwn*

Sounds like a ill informed personal problem.

My intake manifold is cast aluminum, and my headgasket isn't paper.

msix
03-17-2005, 01:06 AM
This forum is actually quite funny at times. People posting here have over 1000 to 4000 posts, you would think they know what they talk about.
But I guess, some of you should spend less time in front of your computer and more time with your car, so you actually know facts.

Someone was comparing a Subaru with a BMW like a KIA with a Rolls Roys. Well, Derreck, obviously you have never been in a Subaru.
I own both, I have a 85 325 nicely modified, it's fast and an absolute pleassure to drive.
I also bought now my second Subaru as my daily driver. The first one was a Outback and I was pretty happy with it. Last year I bought the new 05 Legacy GT, it's a Wagon, but that thing is first of all quite pretty, compare to some of the newer BMW models, has all the luxury that you want (and more of it in the Base model then BMW has) and has now a terrific motor (and turbo) in it that leaves me wondering which car I prefer in Highway driving. This new Subie handles extremly well and it's totally stock. For the 15 - 20 grand less then the comparable 320XI Wagon, I like my Subaru a lot.

I can also give you some facts comparing the performance between the STI and my 20 year old car. And here is also the reason that I am still a huge BMW fan.
I was lapping at Mosport with my E30 with a group of people and there was also a STI. He was a pretty good driver that has been to the track a few times, driving in the Advanced group. We had a good battle going for most of the time. I was able to create a little gap down to corner 5 and on the back straight he was right up on my bumper again. I was faster in the corners, he caught up on the straights.
300+ Hp or not, AWD or not, the handling of my BMW is still superior.

I also do a lot of AutoX or SOLO II with my E30. A friend had a Subaru Imprezza RS, very well modified and we were always batteling it out for the fastest time. Sometimes he beat me, sometimes I got him.
Then he bought an STI last year. He smilled and said he will blow me away now.
Well, his excuse after he could not catch me at the first event was 'he had to get used to the new car'
He was looking for more excuses after the next few events when he could not come near my times and eventually he put his STI for sale after the summer.

Having said all that, I would not even dream of comparing ANY other car to the STI or most other Subarus when it comes to winter driving or on Gravel roads (like at Rallies). They are absolute tops.

So there are pluses and minuses everywhere.
Subaru pluses: price, comfort, power
minuses: weight, handling (good but not as good as BMW)
BMW pluses: a lot, but mostly the handling
minuses, price and lately the styling

Klaus

Shuller1458
03-17-2005, 01:08 AM
I would prefer plastic intake, less weight same perfomance. (well untill you slam a turbo, then I dunno. May be they leak or crack very fast under turbo's pressure))

BMWF1
03-17-2005, 01:29 AM
ok lets be honest, i know 15 years old 300k runs good, but i've seen honda's and shit with the same story and PLEASE i know u other bmw owners can admit to paying retarded bills for the stupidest things breaking, a fuking engine mount?? bushing? i've never heard of shit like this breaking in a chrysler. yeah it has heritage and all, but you can say the same for mercedes, porsche, ferrari, yadda yadda yadda. its just a matter of the logo, upping the value, all cars break down, if u want the most reliable car, according to consumer reports, its a lexus. Not saying its the best car, but out of 1000 cars, 151 had sometype of malfunction as opposted to bmw which was around 300. MB around 251. it all break, pick one u liek and go with it.

Trit
03-17-2005, 01:38 AM
i would have to disagree....if you do the required maintance it should be breaking down more then regular cars.

Point, counterpoint. All in one post.

328power
03-17-2005, 03:51 AM
STi's have shit ass low end tq, he was out of his power band and had to spool up the turbo before he could go anywhere. I have lots of low end tq, and my car weighs like 1/3 less then his.

Don't call me a liar. I was there, I spanked him, and he was pissed. End of story.

hmm Sti's do 0-100 in 4.9 and u spanked him .. :confused: PLEASE the driver either could not drive or wasnt racing...

have u tracked your car ?

Slowered318
03-17-2005, 04:55 AM
this is crazy!

Anyone who buys a car for its specs alone has absolutely no personality! why do you think their are so many options out there? I'm glad they make STI's, it's fun to laugh at people who think they are so cool in them. and it's even more funny to see people all stylin in not so stylish overpriced BMW's! haha

E30 for life! (untill I can afford a Austin Martin)

And if you guy are gonna argue specs... atleast get them right.

MarkD
03-17-2005, 08:13 AM
nothing makes bmw so great, they are overpriced and represent a social standing, thats about, there not any better then most other cars, alot of people won't admit to that but i know its the truth. just something that gives the impression that ur higher on the social ladder.

So mr BMWF1, I'd like to know why you are here. It appears you don't even own a BMW, and now you are saying that they are just status symbols. They may be to some people, but there are many others who don't share your opinion. Whan I bought my first 2002 in 1978, hardly anyone knew what it was. Many people would ask, does that mean "British Motor Works? "
If BMW was a status symbol back then, I definitely wouldn't have bought one. Back then it was about driving a car that handled well, had a nice peppy motor, and didn't have all the extra junk found in a domestic car. Definitely not a status symbol. Now in the last 10 years or so there have been people buying BMW's for the "caché" but there are still many of us who drive tham because we appreciate the way they drive.

I see you have over 2000 posts. Pretty impressive for someone who doesn't own a BMW and thinks they are status symbols.
:moon:

MarkD

GEEE$
03-17-2005, 08:17 AM
hmm Sti's do 0-100 in 4.9 and u spanked him .. :confused: PLEASE the driver either could not drive or wasnt racing...

have u tracked your car ?


Finally a member with some sense! What Jordan posted would never happen in a million years if the STI owner had an ounce of brain matter. A simple downshift would have obliterated your much beloved E30. Even in the same gear, no chance. I just don't get why you would post something so stupid. How many vipers you beat Jordan? *shiner*

I mean seriously...does anyone have ANY IDEA what kind of power it would take to WALK an STI??? Not just slightly edge out an STI...but WALK the bish! Think about that, and a 2700lb car doing it with a small inline 6? Again, thanks for the laugh Jordan! Keep it coming. :D




G$

King Luis
03-17-2005, 09:25 AM
Point, counterpoint. All in one post.
that should say SHOULDN'T...sry about that:P

AMG_POWER
03-17-2005, 09:31 AM
So there are pluses and minuses everywhere.
Subaru pluses: price, comfort, power
minuses: weight, handling (good but not as good as BMW)
BMW pluses: a lot, but mostly the handling
minuses, price and lately the styling

Klaus

Subaru sti has worse handling then E30? dude you are on crack, i never driven one but i read alot of magazines and spoke with many sti owners, Sti's handling is as sharp as it gets, what are yous moking, and on the track with a good driver and few upgrades you wouldnt be able to hang with one, sti awd can accelerate out of the corner like a rocket.

Just my 2 cents.

chromius
03-17-2005, 12:05 PM
Subaru sti has worse handling then E30? dude you are on crack, i never driven one but i read alot of magazines and spoke with many sti owners, Sti's handling is as sharp as it gets, what are yous moking, and on the track with a good driver and few upgrades you wouldnt be able to hang with one, sti awd can accelerate out of the corner like a rocket.

Just my 2 cents.

Dude, read his entire post. First off you have never driven one, so you can't really say anything. He has personal experience with racing an STI in his e30. And I know he is not lying, because I have seen him autox before, he is an avid enthusiast, and knows what he is talking about. I have also seen (last year) an e30 win an autox competition in which $100 000+ sports cars were competing. so get your facts straight. and don't tell him he is wrong unless you have first hand experiance.

5style
03-17-2005, 01:57 PM
I am not getting this whole arguement... BMW and Subaru are like apples and oranges. You want to compare an sti to something, compare it to a car in its class, say Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 7, both are rally junkies. BMWs don't compare, because they a different class of automobile. A bmw compares to an austin martin, or other vehicles in the true sport luxury class. This does not imply that the bmw is worse, it is not, it is a precise luxury machine, not a steroid econo sedan.

duenorf
03-17-2005, 02:02 PM
If you're an insurance agent you can earn a good living off the premiums charged. Just for yuks I took a look at the Canadian Insurance Brokers site.
http://www.ibc.ca/vehinfo_pub_howcarsmeasureup.asp
Funny how BMW has moved up in the ranks as some of the most costly per incident, when the mid 90's was dominated by 2 door Chevy's, Fords and Hondas and 4 door Cadis, VW's and Mercs.

BMWF1
03-17-2005, 02:12 PM
So mr BMWF1, I'd like to know why you are here. It appears you don't even own a BMW, and now you are saying that they are just status symbols. They may be to some people, but there are many others who don't share your opinion. Whan I bought my first 2002 in 1978, hardly anyone knew what it was. Many people would ask, does that mean "British Motor Works? "
If BMW was a status symbol back then, I definitely wouldn't have bought one. Back then it was about driving a car that handled well, had a nice peppy motor, and didn't have all the extra junk found in a domestic car. Definitely not a status symbol. Now in the last 10 years or so there have been people buying BMW's for the "caché" but there are still many of us who drive tham because we appreciate the way they drive.

I see you have over 2000 posts. Pretty impressive for someone who doesn't own a BMW and thinks they are status symbols.
:moon:

MarkD

dude u obviously know nothing about me, i've had a E30 and E36 which i just sold recently, the only car i've ever owned was a BMW so please don't tell me what i know and don't know. But that is the truth, i know my comments are gonna draw some negative attention this is a bmw forum. But common, ur telling me you can say spending 120+ on a new M5 is worth it, there are tons of better cars you can buy for that price. bottom line is MOST people have them to show status, i've seen countless members on here say they only bought it because of that, or that bmw's rule cause it gives people the idea that i'm loaded. sure there are the few people that are different but your gonna tell me that the people that actually buy new BMW's, not old E30/36 for 10-20K, care about performance, HELL NO, i've seen to many mom's in X5's and to many guys with 22" spinners on 745's to really show that they care about its history and lets face it, BMW doesn't give a Flying Fuk about people like us, were not buying new ones, so they don't care, they are catering to the women that married rich or the guys that wanna dump 100K for a 745i and have the worst problems in terms of electronics ever.

This is just my .02 cents, so if you don't agree fine, but if you can argue that 90% of the bmw owners out there that buy new and yadda yadda yadda care about history, then I will reject my statements. But i've been to germany, i've toured the plant in munich, people over there have the mind set that BMW isn't anything special, they on the other hand have the mind set that Caddy's and Lincolns are the top notch cars...why? because their imported, expensive, etc. BMW's there are used for Taxi cabs, police cars, they are the symbol of a regular class car, maybe a little higher then a neon but still.

Mark read my other post above also on this page may give you a little more info about why i think this way.

SickFinga
03-17-2005, 02:27 PM
But common, ur telling me you can say spending 120+ on a new M5 is worth it, there are tons of better cars you can buy for that price.

Please give us some examples.

ara325
03-17-2005, 02:31 PM
ok lets be honest, i know 15 years old 300k runs good, but i've seen honda's and shit with the same story and PLEASE i know u other bmw owners can admit to paying retarded bills for the stupidest things breaking, a fuking engine mount?? bushing? i've never heard of shit like this breaking in a chrysler.

You're right, Chryslers usually only have tranny-breaking problems...hmmmm let's see, what would I rather have fixed...engine mount (which i've never even heard a complaint about) or a transmission. :confused:

BMWF1
03-17-2005, 02:35 PM
Please give us some examples.

E55 AMG, VW Phantom (Randy posted the assembly plant photo's) Viper, even a vet. whats wrong, with those cars. i'm not saying M5's arnt nice, buy for 120K i'd take a Porsche or Viper.

BMWF1
03-17-2005, 02:37 PM
You're right, Chryslers usually only have tranny-breaking problems...hmmmm let's see, what would I rather have fixed...engine mount (which i've never even heard a complaint about) or a transmission. :confused:

i've had a interpid as a winter car, and many of you can vouge that I beat the fuk out of it, burn outs, N-drops, never had a problem, you wanna compare, then take out chryslers and put in Lexus or GM or whatever, everything breaks, it just seems that my mom's Interpid 99, which we bought new and had for 6 years with the biggest problem being a cylender misfire compared to countless problems i've had with my E36. Who knows maybe i got a lucky interpid, but i'm just stating my observations.

5style
03-17-2005, 03:17 PM
I drive a company 2001 interpid. Sorry to say, but a transmission solenoid that causes the tranny problems is alot easier to replace then a engine mount (labour wise). The "tranny problems" are merely the solenoid sending the wrong data to the computer, causing it to shift up or down too early. (and it happens when the car is cold, not when warmed up) Then again, everything in modern cars is ment to last for a limited time only. Parts are designed to break, so you have to spend more, making car makers more money. Take the plastic impeller in the e36 waterpump, it was designed like that on purpose :), to break.

Mystikal
03-17-2005, 03:37 PM
I can't believe how much bad information and personal opinions that somehow translate to fact have been posted. This is pitiful.

duenorf
03-17-2005, 03:48 PM
I drive a company 2001 interpid. Sorry to say, but a transmission solenoid that causes the tranny problems is alot easier to replace then a engine mount (labour wise). The "tranny problems" are merely the solenoid sending the wrong data to the computer, causing it to shift up or down too early. (and it happens when the car is cold, not when warmed up) Then again, everything in modern cars is ment to last for a limited time only. Parts are designed to break, so you have to spend more, making car makers more money. Take the plastic impeller in the e36 waterpump, it was designed like that on purpose :), to break.

It's not just the new stuff, what about that wonderful BMW ZF 4HP22 auto tranny from the 80's and it's self destruct mechanism, the exploding rear window on the E30. The MkII VW golf and the inboard nearside CV joints being too close to the exhaust (I got through 3 sets of CV joints in 12 years, but still had the original clutch), and the small spring in the rear door locks rusting out every 3 years. Everything electrical in an old Grandwagoneer running under the carpet with no shielding, but it ran on 7 cylinders for years and the tranny fluid was like molasses. The list goes on. Still I can't figure out spending more on a car than a house. (ok, a small house out in the boonies)

Jordan
03-17-2005, 09:08 PM
You guys realize that all cars, no matter what you buy or how much you spend... are more or less one large wear item. Everything has an expected life span. Parts wear out, need replacing etc... its part of ownership. You take ANY car and there will be (and I promise) a long list of factory recalls and known common failures... its just the reality.

This topic has gotten so far off track its not even funny.

SickFinga
03-18-2005, 11:11 AM
E55 AMG, VW Phantom (Randy posted the assembly plant photo's) Viper, even a vet. whats wrong, with those cars. i'm not saying M5's arnt nice, buy for 120K i'd take a Porsche or Viper.


I knew you would say something stupid like this.

First E55 is NOT MUCH cheaper than M5.

Second, who the **** compares Vette, Viper, Porsche 911 to M5?
If you are looking for a car like Viper, there is no way you'll end up buying M5.
They are completelly different cars.
M5 has much more to offer per dollar spent than Vetter, Viper or 911.


Just because Phantom is being built is some kind of best looking factory, doesnt make it any better than any other car. Its just a gimmick to sell cars.
If you remember, 2 year ago in Detroit, all of us sat in it and we all said that it wasnt that good.