PDA

View Full Version : 323 vs 325/330


truemc
09-24-2004, 11:18 AM
Hey guys I just wanted to get all of your opinions. I am planning on getting my first BMW and there is a 323 for sale that I am considering. The only thing is that it is a 323. I was wondering in your opinion is there noticably less power than a 325 or a 330 (obviously i will test drive all 3) but do you think I would be dissappointed in the amount of power that a 323 has. Its not like I am planning on racing it or anything but if i am going to drop $25 to $30K I want something with some power. Thanks guys.

Antz_Marchin
09-24-2004, 12:06 PM
Hey man, I had the exact same dilemma a few months ago. I saw a really nice white 323Ci for a decent price that I was thinking of jumping on. Then I thought exactly as you did.....dropping this kind of cash for so little power, I couldn't do it. For the most part, low km 330i/Ci 's were a little out of my price range. So after about 8-10 months of looking and waiting for the perfect one, I decided that the next E46 325Ci, or the next E36 M3 that came up that I considered to be perfect for me (colour, options, wheels, low km's, price) I would get it. I ended up finding a perfect E36 M3 with barely any km's on it with everything I wanted on it.

My suggestion would be to take a look at the E36 M3 option. Don't look at those autotrader ads for them that are posted from dealers out west there, cause they are a total rip. Try to find something privately with low km. You'll end up having more power than any regular E46 3'er and you actually end up spending less than on a 01/02 325, or 330. Good Luck -BJ

(If you're dead set on an E46, and have a budget, I'd say that the 325 is a good balance between power and $$).

Mystikal
09-24-2004, 12:56 PM
I've driven both the 323 and 325 extensively, and I much prefer the 323. Firmer gas pedal feel, better low-end torque, firmer steering, etc. The only real advantage to the 325 is the power doesn't fall off as much in the upper rev ranges, it definately feels quicker above 5000. The other factors far outweigh that to me though.

The 330 feels MUCH quicker than the 323, but it has the same lighter steering and gas pedal as the 325. Many seem to think it's worth it, it's really up to you.

Expanding on the part about your personal preference, get out there and drive the damn cars. Posting opinions about if you yourself will be satisfied makes no sense.

Also, like Antz said, E36 M3 > E46 non-M anything. :)

jmalixi
09-24-2004, 01:11 PM
I have a 323i with a 3.38 diff and it's about to be Sharked this weekend. I will not trade it for anything.

Simby
09-24-2004, 01:36 PM
I've got a 323 and I'm very happy with it. Of course a 330 is a lot more power, but it costs substantially more than a 323. As for a 325, I haven't driven one. I think the 0-60 times is a difference of 0.2 or 0.4 faster than a 323? I doubt that's even noticeable. 325s are newer though which is nice. I would definitely recommend a certified pre-owned. The small stuff seems to break down and if you don't got warranty, it could cost an arm and a leg to fix!

d12
09-24-2004, 05:16 PM
save some cash and get 330 5 speed, TRUST ME on this one...

truemc
09-24-2004, 05:37 PM
Do you know anybody who is selling one (a 330ci 5 speed) for a decent price?

alexm520
09-24-2004, 10:13 PM
Do you know anybody who is selling one (a 330ci 5 speed) for a decent price?

If you don't mind for out of town ones, take a look at this one here in Toronto. Don't be put off by asking price. Check out full thread and I believe Eric would be willing to remove mods if you don't want it.

http://www.e46toronto.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=284&page=1&pp=10

F.Y.I. Steering for 330 has changed practically every year since it came out in 2001. By late Year 2002 and 2003 models it is suppose to be back to the same firm feeling as original E46 Coupes - 323 and 328 for Year 2000.
Take a look here and find 2 paragraphs with these titles: http://www.e46fanatics.com/faq/faqs.php

Q: What's up with the steering for cars produced between June and December 2000?
Q: What is the 'steering retrofit'?

Good luck

AlexM520

d12
09-25-2004, 01:12 PM
what's with all the steering problems... i got early build 2001 330ci and there's nothing wrong with my steering, am I th eonly one?

alexm520
09-25-2004, 08:12 PM
what's with all the steering problems... i got early build 2001 330ci and there's nothing wrong with my steering, am I th eonly one?

There are NO mechanical or design problems with steering of early 2001 models. It is about a "feel". Here are two sentences from the paragraph "steering retrofit" (see link in previous post):

"... In response to consumer feedback, BMW NA initiated a program to satisfy owners of MY2001 E46s who prefer less boost in the power steering system. These owners maintain that a loss of 'feel' was associated with the newer systems which had more boost than MY2000 and earlier E46s "


AlexM520

sexxxybimmer
09-25-2004, 08:27 PM
Amigo i had a 323,99 for 2 years, was a good car i drive like crazy, RMP 6000 and then i change the gear, (to let u know that has a storng engin). i raced with 325, i was behind a little, but it doesnt show that much, BUT 330 is much faster than 323, if u have the money get the 330 standard, on my 323 i changed the exast and aircooler but still was slower than 325. if u have any Q contact me.

truemc
09-27-2004, 11:58 AM
Hey guys thanx for the feedback, its been a great help to hear your experiences. That 330 on the torontoe46 site looks sick however i think even without the mods it would be a little out of my price range. I basically want to spend $30K at the most is there any reasonable chance that I will be able to get a 330ci for that (i doubt it hey) but I think I woul dbe happy with a 325ci as well. Like I said its not like i am going to be racing naybody,just want some power for some fun once in a while

V-Thang
09-27-2004, 01:56 PM
Like everyone said, aim high. Dont rush urself just take ur time and you will find the perfect 330. honestly I wouldnt bother with a 323... i drove my buddies 2001 323 and i didnt like the power at all. sure it handles stiff and pedal is tight, but lack of power is horrible. i even had a little run with him one time on the highway with my 92 vigor with 278,XXXkms on it. We ran to 200km/h and i was a car length a head of him, only from the 80km/h he had a nice jump on me but after 160km/h i creeped up on him.

So, try not to get a 323. The 325's are nice but honestly for the price I would spend a few more G's and get the 330's.

P.S: If you want, head over to my uncles shop in Mississauga on Lakeshore.Rd by SouthDown.Rd. He can get you a good deal on a 330. He prolly has a few for sale. check it out its called Mississauga Auto Centre

actually on his site which hasnt been updated in like 6months, hes got a 2001 330ci for sale. not sure if its sold by now but heres the link, http://www.mississaugaautocentre.com/carview.php?view=3

Surk
09-27-2004, 01:58 PM
How about considering a 99-00 328?? I looked at a 323 before I bought my 99 328...20HP more and similar feel and interchangeable parts... I like mine even before mods... that would put you below the $30k price range and be faster then a 325.

Paul540/m3
09-27-2004, 03:14 PM
How about considering a 99-00 328?? I looked at a 323 before I bought my 99 328...20HP more and similar feel and interchangeable parts... I like mine even before mods... that would put you below the $30k price range and be faster then a 325.

I was gunna suggest the exact same thing
Why not a 328?
they are a bit older than the 325 so u might be able to pick one up fopr a litle bit less, and you will still have the much preffered steering and so on.

truemc
09-27-2004, 03:26 PM
I have thought about that too and have been looking for a 328 as well. I want the E46 model however. I have found a bunch of the older e36 model 328's but no e46. Quick question was 2000 the last year that they stopped making the 328.

Paul540/m3
09-27-2004, 03:40 PM
I have thought about that too and have been looking for a 328 as well. I want the E46 model however. I have found a bunch of the older e36 model 328's but no e46. Quick question was 2000 the last year that they stopped making the 328.
323 and 328 were made in:
4dr-99,00
2dr-00
correct me if im worng

Paul540/m3
09-27-2004, 03:41 PM
E46 that is

SkycityBMW
09-27-2004, 05:06 PM
I say 330 . . for sure . .

alexm520
09-28-2004, 01:12 AM
323 and 328 were made in:
4dr-99,00
2dr-00 correct me if im worng

That's correct Paul. I would say try to find a 330Ci and if not then a 328Ci Year 2000 is next choice for performance.

Manufacturing dates:

E46 323/328Ci Year 2000 model: June 1st, 1999 to March 31, 2000.
E46 330Ci Year 2001 model: Apr 1st, 2000 - Present
E46 325Ci Year 2001 Model: Sept 1st, 2000 - Present

E46 330Ci: HP = 225hp@5900, Torque = 221ft.lbs@3500rpm
E46 328Ci: HP = 193hp@5500, Torque = 206ft.lbs@3500rpm
E46 325Ci: HP = 192hp@6000, Torque = 180ft.lbs@3500rpm
E46 323Ci: HP = 170hp@6000, Torque = 181ft.lbs@3500rpm

So, what do these numbers mean. In general, keeping in mind slight gearing differences between models to help with acceleration for less horsepowered models .....

1) 325 will have similar 0-60 acceleration as 323 because of same torque power but will have more power/acceleration while highway cruising because of additional 22 hp.

2) 328 will have quicker 0-60 acceleration than 325 because of stronger torque but will give similar highway/top end speed because of the same horsepower rating.

I went from a E46 328Ci steptronic to a E46 330Ci 5-speed and noticed significant acceleration in 0-60mp/hr and anything over 140km/hr.

Besides obvious engine differences between 328 and 323, here are some other ones:

1. 328 has a ZF transmission (shifter is more precise than Getrag; same one used on E36 M3) vs 323 has a Getrag transmission
2. 328 has a forged vs cast crankshaft in a 323
3. 328 has a larger brake rotors: 11.8" in front and 11.6" in rear
323 has 11.3 in front and 10.9" in rear
(330 rotors over 12" rotors .... similar to E36 M3 = 12.4 front & 12.3 rear)
4. 328 final gear ratio 2.93 vs 3.07 on 323
5. 323 will have higher revs than 328 at the same speed.

6. SEDAN ONLY: 328 has a full size spare vs 323 does not (coupes have full spare).

Plus there are many non-mechanical - interior/exterior differences between two models.

If you decide to go for a 328, note the following:

328Ci Manufactured from June - August 1999 even with Sport Package came with Style 44 rims (actually taken from a 323 model)
328Ci Manufactured from Sept 1999 - March 200, came with "official" M68 rims with Sport package for a 328.

FINALLY: All Year 2000 models are prone to control arm (bushings) excessive play. No biggy, it was replaced under warranty for free.
Apparently window regulators are also a common problem (did not have on mine 328) .... just check windows for jerkiness when they go down.

Good luck and let me know if you need more info :)

AlexM520

Simby
09-28-2004, 01:50 AM
Where did you get those 325 HP and torque #s?

I'm on the BMW.ca website. HP is 184 and torque is 175.

anfreny
09-28-2004, 02:12 AM
^ Yea, thats why I even speculate and was even told 325 might be bit slower than 323...

But according to an acclaimed member on this board *****STRETCH90*****

He got the 323 because he can nail this:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt1907a.shtml 10/10 times..... therefore a

328 is garbage... when all it does is THIS:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/bmw328i.shtml

alexm520
09-28-2004, 08:22 AM
Where did you get those 325 HP and torque #s?
I'm on the BMW.ca website. HP is 184 and torque is 175.

Oops, my bad. Thanks for noticing.
I posted European numbers for 325Ci. Still, comparisons to other models are still valid.

alexm520
09-28-2004, 08:54 AM
^ Yea, thats why I even speculate and was even told 325 might be bit slower than 323...
But according to an acclaimed member on this board *****STRETCH90*****
He got the 323 because he can nail this:
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt1907a.shtml 10/10 times..... therefore a
328 is garbage... when all it does is THIS:
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/bmw328i.shtml

Anfreny,

Not sure if you meant it as a joke but your acclaimed member - STRETCH90 - is actually invisible because he does not have any posts on this board :D

As far as MotorWeek links, clearly someone forgot to perform an editorial check before they were published. There is no way a stock 323 will do 6.5 seconds..... and if you are going to try to convince people that a 328 is slower than 323 based on a misprint, you better stop smoking heavy sh***t (http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41569&page=1&pp=15).

EricE330ci
09-28-2004, 09:06 AM
If you don't mind for out of town ones, take a look at this one here in Toronto. Don't be put off by asking price. Check out full thread and I believe Eric would be willing to remove mods if you don't want it.

http://www.e46toronto.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=284&page=1&pp=10


AlexM520

Thanks for the free bump Alex! *wave* *th-up*

The car is being traded in at the dealer as the tax savings were just too great to pass up...So long 330ci *sad*

anfreny
09-28-2004, 09:11 AM
That is what Im saying, these mag stats are inaccurate...... tell that to STRETCH90

Actually I believe maybe on a real good fluke day, it is possible for that 15.0.... definately not a conservative time though!

But regardless, Even 330XI AWD has got 14.3 before, but I doubt any amateur could nail that, much like a 323.... more like mid 15s stock!

truemc
09-28-2004, 01:33 PM
Wow, you gusyreally know you stuff. You guys have pretty much narrowed down what I want to a few cars (I want the e46 model) of either 325, 328 or 330. If you ever hear of anyone selling their car that fits into these makes could you let me know. I am doing what everyone is saying and waiting until I find the perfect one but it is taking forever. I went on the american version of this site (i think its e46fanatics.com) and there are so many cars for sale. If you have any other suggestions of where to look other than auto trader could you let me know. Thanks guys, cant wait to get my car.

M3ti Compact
09-28-2004, 03:00 PM
OK...let me get this straight...

the E46 323 and 328 is not being sold right now in Canada.

the old 323 is the equivalent of the 325 being sold right now with the 2.5L engine.
the 328 has been cut with it's 2.8L engine.

the 320 replaces the 323 with a smaller 2.2L I-6 engine.

= Sold now 320, 325 and 330.

Simby
09-28-2004, 04:47 PM
OK...let me get this straight...

the E46 323 and 328 is not being sold right now in Canada.

the old 323 is the equivalent of the 325 being sold right now with the 2.5L engine.
the 328 has been cut with it's 2.8L engine.

the 320 replaces the 323 with a smaller 2.2L I-6 engine.

= Sold now 320, 325 and 330.


yup! you're right.

alexm520
09-28-2004, 08:33 PM
OK...let me get this straight...
the E46 323 and 328 is not being sold right now in Canada.
........
= Sold now 320, 325 and 330.

True, but he is not looking for a brand new car, hence the discussion/reference to previous models - 323/328.

truemc
Another place to check, if you haven't already, are local chapters of BMW Club of Canada: http://www.bmwclub.ca/. Almost every chapter has its own Forums / Classified sections.... and instead of just checking "For Sale" section you can also post it under "Wanted" that you are looking for a car.

Keep checking Autotrader, between 3 models on your short list, you should be able to find the one you like & within your budget.

AlexM520

Surk
09-29-2004, 04:15 PM
"328 is garbage... when all it does is"

If you want to test drive magazines..I'm sure it will save you many $$..if you actually drive different models as I have..you would'nt need to reference a mag.. Here's what I have to report from driving all 3 models

323>> with the right mods CAI-3.38 diff-Software.. Quick car!
328>> same mods..Quicker car
330>> Same mods... quickest

Duh, remember he is looking to $pend under $30K..you'll be hard pressed to find a 330 for that price..

truemc
09-29-2004, 05:27 PM
Yeah I know finding a 330 for under $30K is pretty much impossible so i'm figuring i'll get a 325 or 328 (which I should be able to get for under $30K) I would be willing to spend a little more than $30K if the right car came around.

Simby
09-29-2004, 09:48 PM
You gotta factor in how new of a car do you want? That affects price quite a lot and what you can get. A 325 will most likely cost equal or more than a 328 because it has to be at least 1 year newer eventhough it's not the high end 3 series of its line.

truemc
09-30-2004, 02:59 PM
true, i want at least a 2000 model. I have seen a few 325ci 's for around $28k or so. And anything at the dealerships are ridiculously expensive.

Simby
10-01-2004, 01:00 AM
Oh, you're in Alberta too. Ya, when I shopped for my BMW, BMWs in the Edmonton and Calgary dealerships are substantially more expensive than BC or ON or QB. However, seeing it in person before buying is nice. With cars, what you pay for is what you get.

bimmerchop
10-02-2004, 10:33 PM
^ Yea, thats why I even speculate and was even told 325 might be bit slower than 323...

But according to an acclaimed member on this board *****STRETCH90*****

He got the 323 because he can nail this:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt1907a.shtml 10/10 times..... therefore a

328 is garbage... when all it does is THIS:

http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/bmw328i.shtml

:huh?: umm... hate to burst your bubble, but stock the 323Ci/i is not 6.5

6.5 is the 0-60 times for a 5 speed manual 328 Ci/i and 7.1 for the step <--- staight out of the bmw catalog

If I remember right, the 323 manual does 0-60 in 7.1 or 7.2 stock, can't remember which one

by the way, if you happen to go test drive a 328 and then a 325/330, the 328 might "feel" slower than the 325 because of the throttle cable. Note I said "feel" because it would just be in your head, the heavy pedal on the 328/323 gives off that impression, when in reality, it's not slower, it's just a mental thing :D

Surk
10-03-2004, 08:59 AM
I'd agree with that... *th-up*

:huh?: umm... hate to burst your bubble, but stock the 323Ci/i is not 6.5

6.5 is the 0-60 times for a 5 speed manual 328 Ci/i and 7.1 for the step <--- staight out of the bmw catalog

If I remember right, the 323 manual does 0-60 in 7.1 or 7.2 stock, can't remember which one

by the way, if you happen to go test drive a 328 and then a 325/330, the 328 might "feel" slower than the 325 because of the throttle cable. Note I said "feel" because it would just be in your head, the heavy pedal on the 328/323 gives off that impression, when in reality, it's not slower, it's just a mental thing :D