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View Full Version : BMW execs admit mistake on new 7. . . .


SkycityBMW
06-03-2004, 04:27 PM
Top Gear, June 2004
" 'Our new design was wrong' BMW Boss's Shock Admission


You knew it, we knew it, anyone with any taste new it - BMW's 7-series is horrible. Now it seems BMW knows it too.

BMW has finally admitted what everyone in the car world has long known: the current 7-series is a disaster. In an interview with American business magazine Fortune, Helmut Panke, BMW's chairman, said: "I admit the intensity of the public debate over our new design (which began with the 7-series) did suprise me. There are still too many articles focusing on 'I wish this car looked different blah, blah, blah.' The 7-series was a combination of completely new technology with new design direction. The key point is that we should never make big steps in strategic directions without preparing our customers."

Panke is the first BMW executive to publicly acknowlege what many Munich insiders have privately been saying about the 7-series - that BMW made a big mistake in launching Chris Bangle's new design direction and the complex i-Drive system at the same time in the most conservative sector of the market with no explanation.

Panke's comments have been greeted with relief in Munich. "It's a weight off everyone's shoulders," one insider said. "Panke has finally said what we all knew but could not say - that we tried to do too much, too soon with the 7-series and we did it in the wrong market. We were too far ahead of the audience and lost a lot of goodwill. It was a real own goal that has overshadowed the launch of the very good cars that have followed the 7-Series."

Panke's admission is part of a new PR approach by BMW. As sales of the Z4, the new 5-series and the 6-series rise, BMW execs are admitting past failings. At a recent private dinner in Spain, one senionr BMW board member told jounalists that BMW had done "an absolutely lousy job" of explaining the firm's new design and its minimalist cabin controls.

Even Chris Bangle himself has admitted making mistakes - although not when it comes to design. At a recent lecture at the Design Museum in London, he said: "Did we move in the right direction with design? Yes. Could we have done more to explain what we were doing and why? Yes."

Privately, Bangle believes that the BMW board were too slow to wake up to the scale of his design changes. They failed to explain his new modernist style and when it became clear that customers loved the 7-Series' performance but hated the looks and i-Drive, they acted too slowly to address the concerns.

The top-of-the-range 7-Series was launched two years ago. In spite of the chorus of criticism it attracted and sluggish sales - in particular in BMW's core German market - BMW insisted customers would learn to love it. However, last year executives rushed through a facelift designed to smooth the car's sharp edges, reduce its bulky profile and soften the clunky bootlid.

The new 7-Series will be unveiled later this year. BMW hopes its launch will mark the end of one of the most awkward chapters in the company's history."

Soldo
06-03-2004, 05:03 PM
all i have to say is..........




THANK GODDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Finally, this is the best article i have ever read, PERIOD.

Please post this in the heated discussion about the 330 and G35 coupes, it'd help my argument out a lot more, hehehe.

What really pisses me off still is why didn't BMW GERMANY put their foots down when these CHEEEEZE infested americanized designs came out??? Why did they just bottle it all up??

Why did they have to let BANGLE design the ENTIRE GOD DAMN LINE-UP?!?! Why couldn't they just assign him one car to FAK UP!?


Ah well, its all said and done, if only there was a way to switch everything back and have the simple looking designs how they were!

BigD
06-03-2004, 05:19 PM
words...should have sent...a poet *love*

Justin e36
06-03-2004, 07:57 PM
good stuff.

AMG_POWER
06-03-2004, 08:23 PM
i like it...

alexm520
06-03-2004, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
all i have to say is..........
................
................
Why did they have to let BANGLE design the ENTIRE GOD DAMN LINE-UP?!?! Why couldn't they just assign him one car to FAK UP!?


7-Series was a mistake and actually I read several weeks ago in one of the car magazines that the another new 7-Series will be coming shortly making it the current "new" 7-series the short lived design in a BMW history.

As far Bangle, wasn't he responsible for the E46 3-Series design ??? It is a real cash cow for BMW. I seen more than one article in US and UK car magazines saying that E46 Coupe is one of the best looking coupes in the world. :cool:

BMW Z4, which he designed is a MUCH better looking car overall and has a more presentable stance on the road than the previous Z3. Sure, Z4 front end (hood) is a bit wide and plain, but its sides (profile) and rear end looks excellent with unique concave and convex angles.

I think the article states accurately that 7-Series clientelle is very mature and conservative and so they were not ready for radical design changes.
On the other hand, BMW does not want to apply radical changes to the cash cow series like 3-Series (E46) and consequently the next 3-Series E90 looks VERY similar to the current E46 design.

AlexM520

Soldo
06-04-2004, 12:51 AM
I dunno, he did design the E46, but you can tell it wasn't totally HIS design, that still has SOME german touch to it (although i have confused the E46 with civics a few times!)

I'm just glad that it will come to an end, but won't that mean its gonna be a SERIOUS facelift?

crazyvadim
06-04-2004, 01:10 AM
Good read...
Any pics of the 7 series that will be unveiled later this year??

SickFinga
06-04-2004, 01:42 AM
I love 7 series, i need a bit more work on the front bumper, but I still like it.

And Bangle didnt design 7 series you ignorant bandwagon jumping bastards.

Bangle is a chief designer for BMW since 1992 !!!
So all BMW approvedafter 1992 went through BANGLE.

Designer for 7 series was drian Van Hooydonk, president of Designworks.

ROCKETMAN
06-04-2004, 02:50 AM
"... modernist style..." lol. wtf? Thats not modernist style at all.

BMW is trying to create cars with lines, which you never do. You use surfaces. Just look at Audi (btw, thats modernist style) Such simple regular shapes. Headlight=rectangle. Grille= rectangle. You would think that it sucks because its so plain, yet, theyre arguably the most beautiful cars.

SickFinga
06-04-2004, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by ROCKETMAN
"... modernist style..." lol. wtf? Thats not modernist style at all.

BMW is trying to create cars with lines, which you never do. You use surfaces. Just look at Audi (btw, thats modernist style) Such simple regular shapes. Headlight=rectangle. Grille= rectangle. You would think that it sucks because its so plain, yet, theyre arguably the most beautiful cars.


I think you don't know what MODERN means. Look it up.

7 is definitly modern, Audi is not.

ROCKETMAN
06-04-2004, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by SickFinga
I think you don't know what MODERN means. Look it up.

7 is definitly modern, Audi is not.

I am sure that ure wrong on that.
You should look it up.

lvan
06-04-2004, 03:26 AM
BS! Now i know why those that have cash drive Mercedes because benz is in it's best all the time not like BMW.

Juat take a look at fleet CL600 - S600 S55 ....... all cars do 4.5 seconds to 100km. wHAT bmw OFFERS? tHEY OFFER crap design .....

Current 7 series is not even a BMW.... It is infiniti sedan G35 with bigger body .....AND whole second slover then S600. bmw is pathetic....... If AMG E55 was stick, M5 would never be able to catch it.....


O ya C32 raping M3.........

Audi? Dont talk about audi...People in north america think audi is like GOlf hahaha ......



sickfinga .......MODERN is the same word in serbian MODERAN......SO I bet he knows it.

BMWF1
06-04-2004, 05:30 AM
I call bullshit on that, when i see it posted on BMW's website then i'll buy it

328is_Perf
06-04-2004, 05:35 AM
ok guys. ... what does the new 7 look like?

SickFinga
06-04-2004, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by lvan
BS! Now i know why those that have cash drive Mercedes because benz is in it's best all the time not like BMW.

Juat take a look at fleet CL600 - S600 S55 ....... all cars do 4.5 seconds to 100km. wHAT bmw OFFERS? tHEY OFFER crap design .....

Current 7 series is not even a BMW.... It is infiniti sedan G35 with bigger body .....AND whole second slover then S600. bmw is pathetic....... If AMG E55 was stick, M5 would never be able to catch it.....


O ya C32 raping M3.........

Audi? Dont talk about audi...People in north america think audi is like GOlf hahaha ......



sickfinga .......MODERN is the same word in serbian MODERAN......SO I bet he knows it.

Well MODERN is identical word in russian... MODERN. it even spells the same
and here it is from the dictionary

Of or relating to a recently developed or advanced style, technique, or technology: modern art; modern medicine.
Avant-garde; experimental. Of or relating to a recently developed or advanced style, technique, or technology: modern art; modern medicine.
Avant-garde; experimental.

Audi is same old.


No one needed a Ferrari fast LIMO, so no other car companies offered anything like it until Mercedes got into HP war.
They just slapping FI on anything they got.

M3 is faster, sure c32 might pull on the highway at highspeed, say thanks to FI that provides torque.


If M5 had rocket engine it would be faster than E55. lame arguement.

TiemenT
06-04-2004, 01:17 PM
I don't believe BMW says that they made a major mistake on their own cars !

the 7-series is a great looking car... it's different from the rest.. that's why I like it.. that's why a lot of other people don't like it...

SickFinga
06-04-2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by TiemenT
I don't believe BMW says that they made a major mistake on their own cars !

the 7-series is a great looking car... it's different from the rest.. that's why I like it.. that's why a lot of other people don't like it...

Exacxtly why i love it.

I think S class is boring.

And yeah that article is full of shit. Any company releasing that statement is would sign a death wish and will have shit loads of angry customers.

I dunno how people call 7 series a failure, but it sell better than A8, S class and Jag.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/ceo/articles/0,15114,589308,00.html


Again, that article is FAKE.

crazyvadim
06-04-2004, 01:50 PM
Originally posted by SickFinga



No one needed a Ferrari fast LIMO, so no other car companies offered anything like it until Mercedes got into HP war.
They just slapping FI on anything they got.

M3 is faster, sure c32 might pull on the highway at highspeed, say thanks to FI that provides torque.


If M5 had rocket engine it would be faster than E55. lame arguement.

Thank you!
I explain this too everyone who shits on my M by saying E55 will rip it.Im getting really tired of the same old arguement.....i wouldnt think this arguement would make its way on a BMW forum,what BMW should do is start packing F1 on their motors even though i dont want them too (i prefer a high output NA motor).

TiemenT
06-04-2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by SickFinga
Exacxtly why i love it.

I think S class is boring.

And yeah that article is full of shit. Any company releasing that statement is would sign a death wish and will have shit loads of angry customers.

I dunno how people call 7 series a failure, but it sell better than A8, S class and Jag.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/ceo/articles/0,15114,589308,00.html


Again, that article is FAKE.

amen to that... I knew it since the first post..
it's just mad to hear from BMW themself that the car is rubbish...

johnoz
06-04-2004, 03:03 PM
So, does this article mean that I can get older 7 series cheaper?

-=[[f|L@pJ@cK=]
06-04-2004, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by TiemenT
the 7-series is a great looking car... it's different from the rest.. that's why I like it.

Exactly!! I love the way the 7 series looks right now.

:cool: (just slap on some bigger rims, and it looks even better!)

Soldo
06-04-2004, 04:19 PM
I don't care what anyone tells me, the 7 series isn't supposed to look RADICAL, its supposed to look simple, and the E38 is the BEST lookin 7, and the new 7ers could never come close to it!

SickFinga
06-04-2004, 04:26 PM
Ohh yeah posting photoshop pic of e38 would help you here.

Anyway, I agree e38 looks hot, but it is definitly not what 7 series should've been. That car look way too sporty, it doesn't look like an exuctive car.

E65 accomplished it, it looks like an expensive car and more classy than e38

BMW_7
06-04-2004, 04:35 PM
The best design decade for BMWs was the 90s. I can only think back and admire BMW back then. Back then everything was perfect in BMWs, that's the way I saw it. I didn't even know their handling characteristics and inline engines. In 2000, the SUV appeared, along with radical designs...

I kinda wish I was born earlier so I could experience the 90's cars when they were newer.

A~G
06-04-2004, 04:40 PM
:) finally. + i agree, 90's was the best design decade for BMW.

bmwm5lover
06-04-2004, 05:12 PM
I agree with Vlad. 7er is sexy!

biotek
06-04-2004, 11:19 PM
the new 7er is sick, love seeing them on the road

1BADBMW
06-04-2004, 11:33 PM
i LOVE the new 7!!! i don't care wut ppl say!!

lvan
06-04-2004, 11:56 PM
I think the problem wiht BMW is that they like to over do some stuff.......It's like when u hit perfect bench mark and then you go iver and f_ck it up....just my 0.02......
If E38 was just improved like what benz did ,that would be better option.

ROCKETMAN
06-05-2004, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by SickFinga
Well MODERN is identical word in russian... MODERN. it even spells the same
and here it is from the dictionary

Of or relating to a recently developed or advanced style, technique, or technology: modern art; modern medicine.
Avant-garde; experimental. Of or relating to a recently developed or advanced style, technique, or technology: modern art; modern medicine.
Avant-garde; experimental.

Audi is same old.


No one needed a Ferrari fast LIMO, so no other car companies offered anything like it until Mercedes got into HP war.
They just slapping FI on anything they got.

M3 is faster, sure c32 might pull on the highway at highspeed, say thanks to FI that provides torque.


If M5 had rocket engine it would be faster than E55. lame
arguement.

Thats the typical defenition of modern. What most ppl who arnt really educated in this field will tell you. (the dictionary has a very simplistic defenition, used for everything modern. We were specifically talking about design/art) I was talking about modernism.
The fact that Audi's new car might be similar to their previous one doesn tmean its not moder, cause its not something new. Audi has the most "modern" styling. Modern as in Bauhaus modern. They style.
Trust me. I've spent 2 years so far studying this. Iam a design student.

Manimillion
06-05-2004, 03:17 AM
I don't get it... How can you call a new 7er ugly?

I think the old ones are nice but they look outdated to me now..

Look at this... I'm sure not alot of you guys have seen a 728i but if you were to see one of those you'd be disgusted of the old 7ers...

http://www.bmwworld.com/pics/7er/2041_832.jpg

And now this, a 745i....

http://images.forbes.com/images/2002/04/22/test_open_415x277.jpg

How can you call that ugly? I've seen quite a few in person, and I wasn't too sure in the begining but I think they look nice and unique, a car doesn't have to look like an other car to be nice... Even a new 5 series looks nice...

If you say it looks bad from some angles, any car has some bad angles...