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View Full Version : Trouble with my ASS!!


Soldo
02-23-2004, 08:03 PM
Hey guys, just wondering if anyone can give me their thoughts on the problem, just recently i've noticed that under hard accleration in first gear only, between 4-6k rpm, the rear seems to skip, HARD, but its not like REGULAR traction loss skipping. It doesn't feel quite the same as that!!
Just curious as to what it might be, possibly suspension related?!

Also, i'm still driving around with the spare tire on the rear, could that have anything to do with it?!

Thanks for any input guys!

thinair
02-23-2004, 11:34 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
Just curious as to what it might be, possibly suspension related?!

Nah, make sure your headlights are properly aligned, the rest will fix itself.


.....anyway, that could be a lot of things, worn shock/mount, loose subframe or diff, loose wheel, bumpy road, etc...

jeremy
02-24-2004, 01:10 AM
rear crossmember mounts

Cosmic 325i
02-24-2004, 01:15 AM
hey soldo if your still looking for one tire try premium tire on derry and hurontario...they have used tires for 30-50 installed and balanced in lots of sizes. its better than riding on a spare!

djcontra
02-24-2004, 01:17 AM
rear trailing arm bushings, or your shocks are going.
Mine does a little hop when shifting gears on the highway, it's pretty scary but I plan to get it fixed soon.

Soldo
02-24-2004, 02:40 AM
K, well, could be a lot of things lets try to wear it down!

Thanks for the help so far guys!

I DOUBT its the shocks as there still pretty new (PSS 9's) and are meant for abuse. It's not bumpy roads, it happens whenever i accelerate hard, and i think it might have something to do with the mounts or something, but why is it ALWAYS JUST in first??!?!

325iSBimmer
02-24-2004, 02:44 AM
yeah....Im thinking one of the many mounts in the rear has given out...they are just rubberand after about 10 years they will start to deteriorate...I've had to replace both shock mounts ans both trailing arm to body mounts.....

it happenes only in first gear because that where there is enough torque to make the bushings compress or even move..

Soldo
02-24-2004, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by 325iSBimmer
yeah....Im thinking one of the many mounts in the rear has given out...they are just rubberand after about 10 years they will start to deteriorate...I've had to replace both shock mounts ans both trailing arm to body mounts.....

it happenes only in first gear because that where there is enough torque to make the bushings compress or even move..
Hmmmmmmm, now this makes sense, now what would be the downside to driving with these broken mounts, i mean how long can i drive before it becomes a major concern!?

325iSBimmer
02-24-2004, 02:57 AM
well...i would have it checked out to make sure it is a mount and what mount it is....
i suggest you take it easy on the gas..that way you can save the mounts untill you can replace them....

Soldo
02-24-2004, 04:13 AM
Thanks for the help guys, can anyone give some detail maybe even pics of what a busted up mount looks like?!

djcontra
02-24-2004, 04:47 AM
if it's a rubber mount, it'll probably looked squished, cracked, maybe pieces chipping off or missing, and sometimes discoloured.
Just check for excessive play, and you've found your culprit.

Soldo
02-24-2004, 11:58 AM
Thanks a lot contra, i'll check today, and report back later tonight!

BMW BMXer
02-24-2004, 03:56 PM
Does it hop and feel like your tires are square?

Soldo
02-25-2004, 04:46 AM
Actually this is almost EXACTLY what it feels like!

Soldo
02-26-2004, 11:25 PM
Well i think i've managed to find the problem, however, more and more shitt keeps bustin on me now!

i was on the hwy today, and i downshifter, and my car made a funny noise, and it started making like a WHIZZING sound in the rear, and braking sounded weird too, i dunno whats going on anymore!

Forgot to mention, the skipping feeling, i'm 99% sure is my REAR SUBFREME BUSHINGS. From what i've been told, looks like i'm pretty faked!
Anyone know how much these cost??
Thanks guy!

Autotechnica
02-27-2004, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
Well i think i've managed to find the problem, however, more and more shitt keeps bustin on me now!

i was on the hwy today, and i downshifter, and my car made a funny noise, and it started making like a WHIZZING sound in the rear, and braking sounded weird too, i dunno whats going on anymore!

Forgot to mention, the skipping feeling, i'm 99% sure is my REAR SUBFREME BUSHINGS. From what i've been told, looks like i'm pretty faked!
Anyone know how much these cost??
Thanks guy!

*no-no* Kevin you're driving your car too hard!

j/k but seriously, that's what it's like to own a BMW. My advice, once your bushings start to go, replace them all with performance urethane or stiffer rubber bushings. They last much longer and you won't have to worry about them again for a while.

Check your rear shock mounts regularly. With all that auto-x'in the rear shock mounts will die pretty quickly.

Anyways, with reguards to the tire hop issue. It is most commonly diagnosed as..

A. Torn sub-frame mount
B. Worn out rear trailing arm bushing
C. Rare but possible, early stages of a cracked rear sub-frame

Soldo
02-27-2004, 02:12 PM
i thought the subframes DON'T crack on 95s?!

And how much are these bushings gonna run me?!
If its the RSM, i'm gonna feel pretty stupid, haha!

Autotechnica
02-27-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
i thought the subframes DON'T crack on 95s?!

And how much are these bushings gonna run me?!
If its the RSM, i'm gonna feel pretty stupid, haha!

LOL Kevin, there's no such thing as a sub-frame that won't crack. The 1994 (production date 93+) rear sub-frames were reinforced because BMW realized that the 92-93 rear sub-frames were failing and it was a common problem after about 5-8 years. If you drive your car hard, esecially in auto-x where the car is constantly jerked around using the throttle, the sub-frame will take major abuse (as well as the differential which is linked to the sub-frame via the carrier mounts).

Even the M3's have common rear sub-frame failures when raced on the track or driven hard. The only solution is to take it easy when you drive, try not to rape the hell out of your car too much on the road. And definitely try to accelerate smooth, don't jerk the car around. Don't pop the clutch when you do peel outs or launch, slip the clutch, wait till there's grip. Not sure how you shift, but that plays a major role in sub-frame failures as well. Some people can't shift for beans and it shows when their sub-frames fail. My sub-frame failed on me on my previous car because I abused it. Like most people, I thought a BMW sub-frame would never crack. Boy was I wrong. I damaged my sub-frame from popping the clutch and doing burnouts. As well, I jerked the car around with the throttle a lot! I had factory LSD at the time, so that also puts more stress on the sub-frames. I learned my lesson and now with my '94 bimmer I take it easy and drive carefully. Oh yeah, on my previous car I also revved the hell out of it when it was cold, never warmed the engine up at all. After about a month and only 150,000km's, the engine was shot, it was burning oil like no tomorrow. Now my car has 225,000km's on my '94 and I warm it up all the time, it's not even burning any oil at all!

I don't know how much sub-frame mounts costs. But it's usually the labour that's expensive like most bushing replacements. But if you haven't changed your RSM's in more than a year and you've been auto-xin your car, they're probably shot. They aren't made to last with stiffer suspension setups. Should have kept the GC's. :P

Bry

BMW BMXer
02-27-2004, 05:10 PM
Don't tell Kev that. He's gonna jump ship.

Autotechnica
02-27-2004, 05:30 PM
Originally posted by BMW BMXer
Don't tell Kev that. He's gonna jump ship.

lol, well you always have to consider the possibilities. BMW's aren't cheap to fix, and they aren't exactly the most reliable cars either. The sooner you get these problems fixed, the better. These are the type of things that you can't wait to have them fixed, it's really a safety issue as well. Especially if you drive like Kevin ;) j/k

Bry

325iSBimmer
02-27-2004, 05:36 PM
the rear trailing arm to sub frame bushins are $30 a piece...

it's the labour cost to have some on put them in that will kill you.

2.5hrs per side.... and you need a press.
I've been putting doing mine for a while now

BMW BMXer
02-27-2004, 07:23 PM
Ya mine need to be done to. Hopefully I'll have my blazer before then, then the next ownver of my car can get em done.

koncise
02-27-2004, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by BMW BMXer
Ya mine need to be done to. Hopefully I'll have my blazer before then, then the next ownver of my car can get em done.

you're selling your bimmer? and not getting another one?

BMW_7
02-28-2004, 02:58 AM
I better take it easy with my car....haha.

BMW BMXer
02-28-2004, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by koncise
you're selling your bimmer? and not getting another one?

When Im done college. And I have no plans of buying another BMW.

Jon@Bimmersport
02-28-2004, 03:52 AM
traitor!

:mad:

lol

Soldo
02-28-2004, 07:55 AM
FAK BM's, i learned the hard way that they really do stand for BREAK MY WALLET!
time for a RWD JAP car for me i guess!

hehehe, Dave i've been jumping shit for the past couple of days, cause basically everything Bryan said NOT to do, i've done a LOTTTT!
hehehe, no, i do accelerate hard, frequently, but i dunno whats happening!
If the bushings are 20 a piece i guess that shouldn't be TOO bad to fix!
question is how many are SHOT!?!
If the subframe does crack, is there any serious long term effects?!
and how do you repair a CRACKED SUB FRAME?!?!
Thanks a lot guys fro all the help!
i really do appreciate it!

Autotechnica
02-28-2004, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
FAK BM's, i learned the hard way that they really do stand for BREAK MY WALLET!
time for a RWD JAP car for me i guess!

hehehe, Dave i've been jumping shit for the past couple of days, cause basically everything Bryan said NOT to do, i've done a LOTTTT!
hehehe, no, i do accelerate hard, frequently, but i dunno whats happening!
If the bushings are 20 a piece i guess that shouldn't be TOO bad to fix!
question is how many are SHOT!?!
If the subframe does crack, is there any serious long term effects?!
and how do you repair a CRACKED SUB FRAME?!?!
Thanks a lot guys fro all the help!
i really do appreciate it!

If the sub-frame is cracked it needs to be rewelded. Metal plates should be placed ontop and welded on as well for extra reinforcement. After this your rear sub-frame should be even stiffer than before. Most E36 race cars have the plates welded into their sub-frames before they crack, obviously it's not as strong after it has cracked and been rewelded.

Kevin don't worry, if it's your sub-frame I'm sure you'd hear a lot more clunks and thuds when you drive around and shift.

Do the rear trailing arm bushing test. Take the car up to 80km/h, let go of the steering wheel and jam on the brakes. If the car suddently pulls to one side, your RTAB may be shot. 2nd test, accelerate to 80km/h in 3rd gear, let go of the steering wheel and punch the throttle, if it suddenly pulls to one side same problem. The car should stay relatively straight.

Bry

Soldo
02-28-2004, 04:17 PM
Well, at higher speeds, when i brake, it sounds NASTY!
almost like the brakes are rubbing metal to metal, HARD! (Thats not the rpoblem, pads are brand new, just trying to explain the noise) and then the steering wheeel shakes like a bitch after i stop braking!

And if it is the subframe, is that gonna be an expensive job?!
I'm almost positive that its more than a FEW bushings, cause on the highway, theres a whole BUNCH of noises i hear now!

P.S. Does anyone know if a shop would give me a free estimate, so i can figure out EXACTLY what i need to buy?!

Autotechnica
02-28-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
Well, at higher speeds, when i brake, it sounds NASTY!
almost like the brakes are rubbing metal to metal, HARD! (Thats not the rpoblem, pads are brand new, just trying to explain the noise) and then the steering wheeel shakes like a bitch after i stop braking!

And if it is the subframe, is that gonna be an expensive job?!
I'm almost positive that its more than a FEW bushings, cause on the highway, theres a whole BUNCH of noises i hear now!

P.S. Does anyone know if a shop would give me a free estimate, so i can figure out EXACTLY what i need to buy?!

If your steering wheel is vibrating check these components...

1. inner control arm bushings
2. ball-joints
3. front strut

Replace all the front bushings at once. A worn control arm bushings will wear out the balljoint and a worn balljoint will wear out the control arm bushing. They work with each other to keep your car straight, so those are vital components. After just that 1 day at auto-x I killed both side ball joints (only 2 months old) because 1 control arm bushing was worn. If you like to auto-x, get use to replacing your balljoints.

Unfortuntely you have to buy crappy stock balljoints, they suck, but there's no upgrade. You should replace the control arm bushings with '95 M3 offset ones (stiffer and more turn-in) or get the more expensive Urethane ones.

Costs to repair the rear sub-frame usually costs anywhere between $450-$800, depending on how friendly you are with the shop owner ;) Or if you have an access to a hoist and you're an experienced welder, you can do it yourself for no more than the cost of the metal used. You have to remove the tranny, exhaust, and sub-frame inoder to do this. Expect it to take 1 full day if you're experienced, 2 days if you're a newbie.

It's really funny if you think about it. E30's had the strongest chassis. They didn't require any X-braces to stiffen them up and you rarely hear of any sub-frame failures. With the E36 some chassis upgrades makes it a trackable car, but it's still not as stiff as the E30's chassis. I can only imagine what the E46 will be like. That's what you get with all the newer cars, stupid recycled metal.

Bry

Soldo
02-28-2004, 04:34 PM
DAYMN!
looks like with all my hard driving, i've dug myself a nice hole!
Well, i know that my balljoint is WORN, and its been worn for a while now, just been waiting for warmer weather to replace them, so i'm assuming the control arm bushings are shot too!
How much are the regular buishings compared to the M3 ones!?
And is there any SEVER consequences from driving with worn bushings and balljoints?! Like my tire isn't just gonna fall off at any given point is it?!

Anyone got the price list of all these bushings on that BMW parts program!?

Autotechnica
02-28-2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
DAYMN!
looks like with all my hard driving, i've dug myself a nice hole!
Well, i know that my balljoint is WORN, and its been worn for a while now, just been waiting for warmer weather to replace them, so i'm assuming the control arm bushings are shot too!
How much are the regular buishings compared to the M3 ones!?
And is there any SEVER consequences from driving with worn bushings and balljoints?! Like my tire isn't just gonna fall off at any given point is it?!

Anyone got the price list of all these bushings on that BMW parts program!?

stock E36 CA bushing are $80pr (I think, maybe less)
E36 M3 CA bushings are $140pr, hmm or were they $280pr? I can't remember sorry. But the M3 ones are so worth it! They will last you 5 years or more with no problems.

Anyways, the CA bushings need to be pressed so you can't do it yourself. Shop should charge you 1-2 hours for the labour.

I have no idea what will happen if both your balljoints and control arm bushings are shot. But the CA bushing is the only thing that connects the control arm to your chassis. So I wouldn't say it's "safe". Poor alinment will also wear your bushings out sooner. You can also check to see if the CA bushing is worn by jacking the car up. Look at the bushing, if it looks like it's being "pushed" out and you can see the bushing comming out, it's worn. Check for discolour and cracks in the rubber as well.

But one things for sure, this should be your first priority.

Bry

Soldo
02-28-2004, 04:46 PM
Oh this is my first priority, no doubt about it!

But whats this about PRESSING the bushings?!
Why can't i do this myself!?

Autotechnica
02-28-2004, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
Oh this is my first priority, no doubt about it!

But whats this about PRESSING the bushings?!
Why can't i do this myself!?

The control arm bushing sits in this metal bracket. You need a 2 ton press to bang the old bushing out and press the new bushing back in. You can't do it yourself unless you have a press. You can remove the bushing (with the bracket attached), take it to a shop and tell them to press the new one in for you. They shouldn't charge you too much.

Installation is quite easy, just loosen the old bushing and remove it where it's attached to the chassis, you'll probably need a pry bar to pull it out. Then just use a pry bar to stuff it back in. Make sure you line up the tabs indicated on the bushings before you reinstall. Good luck!

bry

Soldo
02-28-2004, 05:04 PM
DAMN!
this is gonna be an expensive one, thats for sure!

Autotechnica
02-28-2004, 05:11 PM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
DAMN!
this is gonna be an expensive one, thats for sure!

Expensive? Man you've got PSS coilovers and you're complaining about this! :P

Bry

Soldo
02-28-2004, 05:29 PM
i wish it were that easy, it took me FOREVER to save up for the PSS 9's, and that was when i WASN'T in school!!

R_JAY
02-28-2004, 05:34 PM
Kev, I changed my trailing arm bushings and control arm bushings last summer and with parts and labour it was 3 bills. I guess you have to forget about buying ellipsoids and think about maintenance first;)

Soldo
02-28-2004, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by R_JAY
Kev, I changed my trailing arm bushings and control arm bushings last summer and with parts and labour it was 3 bills. I guess you have to forget about buying ellipsoids and think about maintenance first;)
HAHA, ya, guess i will, thanks buddy!
3bills is pretty damn price!
guess i better start saving, DAMN!
Guess it won't be TOO much just for parts!

R_JAY
02-28-2004, 05:51 PM
I forgot to add the $80 you'll need for the allignment when it's all done.:)

BMW BMXer
02-28-2004, 11:02 PM
Poor Kev. See ya in the ocean buddy. :D

Soldo
02-29-2004, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by BMW BMXer
Poor Kev. See ya in the ocean buddy. :D
THANKSSSSS DAVE!
*mumble* asshole!!
hehe, i don't mind it just sucks cause my reading week was SUPPOSED to be spent having fun, now its gonna be spent spendin money that i don't have on my car!

The colleges BETTER go on strike now, i NEED a reading week dammit!