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View Full Version : Porsche to build the M5 and E55 killer!


AMG_POWER
01-17-2004, 01:15 AM
what do ya say?

http://216.73.106.70/SP32-20040115-133041.jpg

Kal
01-17-2004, 01:20 AM
hey were the porchse 928's any good? My mechanic has an 88 or 89 porchse 928 5 speed... what was this cars reputation ... any good?

golden
01-17-2004, 01:37 AM
that car looks great

but i dont like the direction porcshe is going, its becoming tooo main stream

SUV, now 4 door sedan? pure sell out company

Gamite
01-17-2004, 01:40 AM
WTF? A porsche sedan???? What's next an SUV?? :rolleyes:

next thing you know, they're building low budget roadsters for the low market buyers. What's the world comming to?

Lennon
01-17-2004, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Gamite
WTF? A porsche sedan???? What's next an SUV?? :rolleyes:

next thing you know, they're building low budget roadsters for the low market buyers. What's the world comming to?

Greed

ROCKETMAN
01-17-2004, 01:47 AM
WTF? A porsche sedan???? What's next an SUV??

uum. They allready have an SUV.
The reason that Porsche might be doing this is that they want too keep independant. They dont want to get owned, like lambo and so many other companies.

I wouldnt mind the super-sedan. At least its more acceptable than an SUV from a sports car company.

Gamite
01-17-2004, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by ROCKETMAN
uum. They allready have an SUV.



Its called sarcasm my young friend.

Understated
01-17-2004, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by Gamite
Its called sarcasm my young friend.

:D

ROCKETMAN
01-17-2004, 01:53 AM
I thought so, but then i thought it was pointless sarcasam. Wrong time and place.:)

Anyways, on the topic now. Do u think a sport sedan is worse than an suv?

Gamite
01-17-2004, 01:59 AM
ok being serious? I don't think porsche should have ever entered the mainstream market, they should stay exclusive, you don't see ferrari making SUV's.

ROCKETMAN
01-17-2004, 02:01 AM
thats because Ferrari is financially safe. They have a VERY successful f1 program, they own Masserati, Fiat, and something else, i cant remember...
As i said porsche doesnt want to be bought out.

AMG_POWER
01-17-2004, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by Gamite
ok being serious? I don't think porsche should have ever entered the mainstream market, they should stay exclusive, you don't see ferrari making SUV's.

I wouldnt be surprised to see one tmrw....theese days you dont knwo what to expect!!!!*shiner*

Soldo
01-17-2004, 04:49 AM
Originally posted by golden
that car looks great

but i dont like the direction porcshe is going, its becoming tooo main stream

SUV, now 4 door sedan? pure sell out company

Are you NUTS?!
I dunno if you can recall but back in the day porsche also made cars fitted for people who wanted OVER AVERAGE engineering quality and weren't as rich as movie stars, this isn't the first time porsche has made cars for the 'poor' so to speak, take the 944 for example, it was a fairly priced car in the 80's when it came out and still an incredible machine, i'm glad that porsche has decided to somewhat go this direction again!
(with the exception of the SUV!!)


The new 928 looks AMAZING, i loved the older ones, and this one can take its place inn my heart no problem!
*shiner*

M50E30
01-17-2004, 04:50 AM
Originally posted by ROCKETMAN
thats because Ferrari is financially safe. They have a VERY successful f1 program, they own Masserati, Fiat, and something else, i cant remember...

WRONG! Fiat owns Ferrari! *no-no*

FastM3
01-17-2004, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by M50E30
WRONG! Fiat owns Ferrari! *no-no*

Correct. But all in all, Ferrari is where the money comes from, not Fiat.

But is this car really an M5 killer? The new M5's will have V10's not V8's and anywhere from 500-550hp, not 500. Obviously the numbers will probably change a little but I'm sure the new M5's will kill these.

moerom
01-17-2004, 07:49 AM
Fiat doesnt "own" Ferrari per se, in the same sense that Audi owns Lambo. Financially yes, but in terms of the operation, no.

Fiat has a large stake but Ferrari still controls itself and is its own designer, builder, and shares no parts/designers/ideas w/ Fiat.

Manimillion
01-17-2004, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by moerom
...but Ferrari still controls itself and is its own designer, builder, and shares no parts/designers/ideas w/ Fiat.

Maybe this name would ring a bell

"Pininfarina"

Manimillion
01-17-2004, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Pasta
Correct. But all in all, Ferrari is where the money comes from, not Fiat.

%42 of Fiat AG's gross income comes from the FIAT cars. ;)

Manimillion
01-17-2004, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by ROCKETMAN
The reason that Porsche might be doing this is that they want too keep independant. They dont want to get owned, like lambo and so many other companies.

Porsche is a part of VW Group, and unfortunetly is not an independent auto manufacturor.

SickFinga
01-17-2004, 02:26 PM
Lambo made SUV before
Ferrari made sedan and a station wagon for tht prince of brunei
Porsche had suv before cayanne
Porsche had cars for people on budget which were 928 and 914

M50E30
01-17-2004, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by moerom
Fiat doesnt "own" Ferrari per se, in the same sense that Audi owns Lambo. Financially yes, but in terms of the operation, no.

Fiat has a large stake but Ferrari still controls itself and is its own designer, builder, and shares no parts/designers/ideas w/ Fiat.

Do you honestly think Ferrari would be around if Fiat didn't own them? Fiat is a huge company which brings in the funding for Scuderia Ferrari.



ATTN!

To all Ferrari fanatics/freaks/followers:

Swallow your damn pride and join the real world!

magnus
01-17-2004, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by ROCKETMAN
thats because Ferrari is financially safe. They have a VERY successful f1 program, they own Masserati, Fiat, and something else, i cant remember...
As i said porsche doesnt want to be bought out.


Ferrari is about to go bankrupt! Gruppo FIAT are in deep shit and they are actually considering to do the same as Porche and offer their mainsteam cars. Also Porche are only doing this for one and only reason....CAPITAL!!

magnus
01-17-2004, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by DevilOnWheelz
Maybe this name would ring a bell

"Pininfarina"


Pininfarina is only a designer ! Nothing to do with Ferrari! He is only contracted by them! The owner of Ferrari is the Agnieli family who own Fiat too as well as part of the PSA group. And the main income is from FIAT as they manufacture one of the most sold car in Europe, Africa, Asia and South America.

Skimeister
01-17-2004, 04:21 PM
OK really don't understand the excutives at VW AG. They have great brands that capture all market segments: Audi - performance sedans. Porsche - sports car. Lamborghini - exclusive low production car. VW - middle class mainstream automobile ( for the people) and SEAT as affordable performance car. So why do they go ahead and introduce cars that invade markets of the other brands that they already own?? Phaeton was a huge flop... $1 billion Euros in R&D and lagging sales, why? because AUDI had a much richer heritage and standing with public as a luxury car. $50 000 "people's car" now that's an oxymoron. And now this 4 door Porsche that will clearly take a chunk out of Audi's market share. This product cannibalism not only hurts their bottom line but they are diluting brand equty; Porsche is supposed to be a sports car... nothing more, nothing less... SUV, Sedan ?!? people will start to loose faith... it will no longer be prestigeous to own a Porsche sports car when there are Porsche SUVs and sedans rolling around. Ferdinand Piech is leavind but it doesn't seem like the new CEO will take VW in any new directions... another kick in the ass perhaps will make them see.

chanh
01-17-2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by M50E30
WRONG! Fiat owns Ferrari! *no-no*


WERD!

*wiggle*

ROCKETMAN
01-17-2004, 04:52 PM
Porsche is a part of VW Group, and unfortunetly is not an independent auto manufacturor.

I dont think that Porsche is a part of WV group. Yes they share some parts, (tourag platform, tiptronic transmision -audi,) but they just have that partnership. VW does not own them.

oh, and didnt Ferdinand Piech already leave? Isnt the head of VW group now the guy who used to be BMW head. (name also atarts with piechen...

Skimeister
01-17-2004, 05:05 PM
Yes, the new Chairman is Bernd Pischetsriederis..I think he was in BMW but I'm not familiar with his history.... time will tell..

ROCKETMAN
01-17-2004, 05:15 PM
Yeah thats him. He was in bmw 100% sure. ferdinand piech left like 1-2 years ago.

bmwm5lover
01-17-2004, 08:44 PM
:puke:

johnoz
01-17-2004, 08:47 PM
4 door Porsche?
BTW VW Toureg looks better than the SUV Porsche.

blacknblue-e30
01-17-2004, 08:55 PM
thats a pretty hot looking car!

SickFinga
01-17-2004, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by ROCKETMAN
I dont think that Porsche is a part of WV group. Yes they share some parts, (tourag platform, tiptronic transmision -audi,) but they just have that partnership. VW does not own them.

oh, and didnt Ferdinand Piech already leave? Isnt the head of VW group now the guy who used to be BMW head. (name also atarts with piechen...

Ferdinandt Porsche was building Porsche's
Then Adolf Hiltler asked him to build a car people's car (Volkswagen)
So how is VW is not Porsche??
VW closer to Porsche than to Audi.

bart320i
01-17-2004, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Skimeister
OK really don't understand the excutives at VW AG. They have great brands that capture all market segments: Audi - performance sedans. Porsche - sports car. Lamborghini - exclusive low production car. VW - middle class mainstream automobile ( for the people) and SEAT as affordable performance car. So why do they go ahead and introduce cars that invade markets of the other brands that they already own?? Phaeton was a huge flop... $1 billion Euros in R&D and lagging sales, why? because AUDI had a much richer heritage and standing with public as a luxury car. $50 000 "people's car" now that's an oxymoron. And now this 4 door Porsche that will clearly take a chunk out of Audi's market share. This product cannibalism not only hurts their bottom line but they are diluting brand equty; Porsche is supposed to be a sports car... nothing more, nothing less... SUV, Sedan ?!? people will start to loose faith... it will no longer be prestigeous to own a Porsche sports car when there are Porsche SUVs and sedans rolling around. Ferdinand Piech is leavind but it doesn't seem like the new CEO will take VW in any new directions... another kick in the ass perhaps will make them see.

I'm guessing that the new Porsche is aiming at the entire Super Sport Sedan market rather than just Audi, I'm sure M5/E55/XJR buyers will test drive this aswell when it comes out. I know I would. Plus I don't think 911 guyers (majority of porsche sales) will care if there is a Porsche Sedan since most porsche guyers are loyal to the brand. How can Porsche be less presitigeous by offering a car at a base price of 73000UK-thats around 180000CAN? A company that invades it's own market share is not being stupid (most european CEO's have PhD's) it's just simply making experiments to see what will make them MONEY

betmen
01-17-2004, 10:17 PM
dosnt look bad, but i WOULD NEVER get it and dont think porsche sghould have done it

:@

Understated
01-17-2004, 10:41 PM
mixed feelings.

but it is definately interesting :)

1BADBMW
01-18-2004, 01:07 AM
looks like shit, specially the back!!

Manimillion
01-18-2004, 01:15 AM
Did you guys think of this...

You guys are saying it is shit and all and its going to hurt the brands name, you are saying that the loyal porsche people are going to be disturbed... BUT! You never think that if they LOYAL they'd rather have a Porsche SUV and a Sedan then owning a 760iL or an X5...

I really don't give a shit about the brands heritage or all that crap, if a car is a good car, its a good car ... period ...

Bigbore
01-18-2004, 05:04 AM
i disagree with this whole concept, why is porsche moving into cheaper and cheaper cars? cars that have nothing to do with performance? Cayenne, now this monsrtosity, not to mention the boxter which really should be the only cheap alternative to this line. Audi, and VW can make many cheaper car that will fill this void, why diloute the market like this. like someone pointed out b4, "GREED".

BTW to my understanding it goes like this

VW - audi direct partners
porsche - partner but remains separate, only passing down technology
Lambo- partner but completely separate
seat, skoda - racing affilates and VW hands down motors to thier cars for cost savings. thats why you see skoda sn seat cars with VW motors in them.

Soldo
01-18-2004, 07:19 AM
Originally posted by Bigbore
i disagree with this whole concept, why is porsche moving into cheaper and cheaper cars? cars that have nothing to do with performance? Cayenne, now this monsrtosity, not to mention the boxter which really should be the only cheap alternative to this line. Audi, and VW can make many cheaper car that will fill this void, why diloute the market like this. like someone pointed out b4, "GREED".

BTW to my understanding it goes like this

VW - audi direct partners
porsche - partner but remains separate, only passing down technology
Lambo- partner but completely separate
seat, skoda - racing affilates and VW hands down motors to thier cars for cost savings. thats why you see skoda sn seat cars with VW motors in them.
You like the NEW BMW's but hate PORSCHES LINEUP?!
:confused:
Anyways, you poeple are confused, just because PORSCHE has another company behind it, it is not like BENZ/CHRYSLER where the cars are influenced with one another, Porsche is not making CHEAPER and CHEAPER cars, the SUV is not a CHEAP car especially with those in its class!
ALSOOOOO, even if they are making cheaper and cheaper cars, as they have in the past (944, 928) why can't they continue that? Why can't an average joe drive around in a porsche, someone that doesn't just want the name, but wants the quality behind the work?

Stop hatin, i highly doubt this new 928 will be in the same price range as a MAZDA 3, and i'm pretty sure its gonna be in the 100+ price range (the 911 for its money is a REALLY cheap car, compared to other european 400+ HP monsters)

Any more haters.......JUST BRING IT!
*smoke*

Bigbore
01-18-2004, 03:17 PM
BTW i was really drunk while i was writing that yesterday, so i cant believe that i takes any sense lol.

nono. i love the porsche as it stands right now, the designs are great, the power is great, everyting about them , the finish etc What i meant to say yesterday was this

Porsche has always been an exclusive company except for uasually one model which is cheaper for the masses, in this lineup i thought it was the boxter, and yesterday i thought that this new porsche is going to be in the same price range. i must have misunderstood. hehehe it would be a shame form them to start losing the exclusivness, so that they can sell a whole bunch of cars.

As for the BMW lineup, i like most of them, from late 80s to now. I have no idea why a lot of BMW owners seem to dislike the new way its going, but i`d hear your opinions on it.

Furious
01-18-2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by SickFinga
Ferdinandt Porsche was building Porsche's
Then Adolf Hiltler asked him to build a car people's car (Volkswagen)
So how is VW is not Porsche??
VW closer to Porsche than to Audi.

maybe adolf is still alive and is gonna take over the world by flooding the entire car market with porsches. :D

Trogdor
01-18-2004, 08:00 PM
Dosn't the back end look like a camry solara?

M3NTALM3
01-19-2004, 07:28 AM
KKKKKKK A few things here! first offff Porsche has no choice but to develop cars to compete with the other companies.. if they don't, they are missing out on that portion of the market which is A LOT OF MONEY... if everybody else makes more money than they do, then they can't use that money for R and D and they will get left behind... the boxter (the shittiest porsche ever) like it or not SAVED that company...it accounted for more profit the year it came out and for about 3 years after than ALL the 911 models together. They could not survive on the carrera/turbo/gt2 alone..... it's simple the more cars a company offers, the more market they can reach, the more profit they make...and who's in business NOT to make money???

second... why are ppl dissing the CAYENNE? I had the pleasure of driving the Cayenne turbo for about 1800km till it caught fire and blew up lol (that's another story but i'll post some pics later) and i also had the pleasure of driving a C4S over a winter (yes, a winter...4wd remember) anyways, the most shocking thing, was how similar these two machines were! The cayenne turbo is NOT AN SUV... it DESTROYS each and every SUV out there 13.5 auto 13.1 SIX SPEED that's the same 1/4 mile as C4S and the handling is there as well. That truck is in a class all it's own... the Cayenne "S" is nothing special, but if u figure that even 20% of ppl that would of bought ML's or X5's buy cayennes that's just more money for porsche to make which results in greater improvements in the cars they really care about (TURBOS GT2, GT3, CARRERA GT!) without all these other money makers, concepts like carrerra GT never become production.

as for the 928, for the time it came out (late 80's) it smoked the comptetition, namely the ferrari 328 in all aspects of performance. Im interested to see what they can do with a 4 door version of that beast and i don't think they will dissappoint! look for 1/4 mile times in LOW 12's for the new version.

///deni-boy///
01-19-2004, 09:58 PM
good point M3NTALM3, its alllll about money, all this shit about ppl saying how they shouldnt make cheaper cars blah blah, well they have to, they want money, they dont do a survey and say YAY! x million ppl like porche, they go by sales to see how they do.

Bigbore
01-19-2004, 11:34 PM
what you guys are talking about is called market dillution and it`s not always good. But whatever cool car and company.

mkgino
01-19-2004, 11:44 PM
Porshe is making some of the sweetest cars on the road right now. The 928 looks amazing.

And the Carrera GT = *fap*fap*fap*fap*fap* 8=======D ~*shiner* **OUCH MY EYE**

ROCKETMAN
01-19-2004, 11:53 PM
I think it looks wicked! If i was buying a top range sport sedan, i would take this over my previous #1. The Audi RS6.

M3NTALM3
01-20-2004, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by Bigbore
what you guys are talking about is called market dillution and it`s not always good.

I never said it was always good.. i just said that they have to do it to caputure that part of the market, or they are giving up $$$$... but anyways in this case i think it IS good... this new 928 will be direct competition for the new M5 V10.... i know it's more expensive but most ppl that buy m5's coudl offord to buy the 928 if they wanted instead...

Justin e36
01-21-2004, 07:10 PM
it's business. they need to make money.

but the initial question still hasn't been answered... will this take over the M5 as the world's fastest sedan?