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View Full Version : Lets talk subwoofers.


Miguel
12-09-2003, 01:27 AM
Any audiophiles here? I dont know much about audio, but I have been reading rave reviews on these three subs. Can anyone tell me a bit about them? Anyone have some recommendations they can add to the subwoofer list?

What would you rather have in a ported box?

1. Brahma 12 Inch XBL2 Woofer ($379Usd Shipped)
http://www.visionaryaudio.com/im/new_b12_side.jpg

2. Resonant Engineering XXX (??? around $300-$400Usd)
http://www.bladeice.com/img_files/prod/RE%20family.jpg

3. Adire Audio E12A (Around $500 Cdn. from http://www.genuinecanadianaudio.com/)
http://www.genuinecanadianaudio.com/catalog/images/eD/12A.jpg

///MsAniTy
12-09-2003, 01:29 AM
just go to phantom n hook up soem auidio bahns and get a powerful amp to power yr shit and u will be poundin my friend

Miguel
12-09-2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by ///MsAniTy
just go to phantom n hook up soem auidio bahns and get a powerful amp to power yr shit and u will be poundin my friend

I know Dan and Phantom very well.
Lets just say that Id rather have my testicles kicked inside out then hook up Audiobahn, MMATS, or Kicker in my car.

I need flexible subwoofers that can do both clear clean bass, and loud throbbing bass.

However, I do agree that kicker and Audiobahn are great for pure pounding bass.

///MsAniTy
12-09-2003, 02:10 AM
wow they got whatever u need man. tell them and they will hook u up ask mitch they hooked him up and his cari s poundin. trust me tell them what u need it for and they will hook u up man.

BMW_M52_M20
12-09-2003, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by ///MsAniTy
just go to phantom n hook up soem auidio bahns and get a powerful amp to power yr shit and u will be poundin my friend

Don't get audiobahn, my one friend had audiobahn subs and they crapped out in no time from light pounding.........You may have had a different experience.......
Phantom is good, see Dan.......

My buddy got some clarion subs and for the price, I think they are great......It all depends of the quality of system you want.....If you have a small amp not powerful enough expensive subs aren't worth it.........
A good amp can turn low grade subs into amazing sounding systems......

I have always loved bandpass boxes.......They pound with deep bass like no tommorrow. They may not be as clear as a sealed or ported box, but if you want bass, that is the way to go......
I have two 10's right now in a sealed box in my e30 and they are low quality kenwood subs that I got off a friend........They sound fine and can hit good bass, but I know if they were in a bandpass box I would have a lot more bass with out upgrading my amp or subs......

Amp wise, I have been happy with Clarion and Rockford Fosgate kicks A$$!

Jay

///MsAniTy
12-09-2003, 02:21 AM
yea i used to have rockford fosgate punches in my car 2*12's and they pounded but with a better amp my current 2*10's will still do the same job

BMW_M52_M20
12-09-2003, 02:22 AM
Originally posted by ///MsAniTy
yea i used to have rockford fosgate punches in my car 2*12's and they pounded but with a better amp my current 2*10's will still do the same job

Exactly, if you have a Great amp you can make pretty much anything sound good!

Sickbimmer
12-09-2003, 02:27 AM
If you like clean tight bass I'd go with Eclipse. Pricey but good.

///MsAniTy
12-09-2003, 02:29 AM
yea eclipse is the greatest id definatly go with them if i had the choice. but there are some more serious european systems out there these days

ROBM3
12-09-2003, 02:46 AM
Those RE subs are awesome ! Actually all those subs you posted are great quality !

As for amps, I'd go with JL Audio ! They are awesome build quality and sound superior to most other brands !

I myself bought something else though for now.....

In my yellow crx ,I am running a Kicker 10" L7 in a huge ported box to spec, with a fosgate BD 1000 Powering it ...People think I have 2 twelve inch subs.....lol
For highs I have 5 1/4 Alpine's, with an Alpine mrv-f340 2 channel amp running them... I am using the latest Alpine deck.
I dont even turn it up 1/4 of the way for fear of shattering my crx's rear hatch glass...

can you say overkill ?

Right now I am looking now to get something simple for my red crx.
I need a 4 channel Zapco or JL audio amp... maybe JL 300/4
or Zapco AG360.

T.Dot_E30
12-09-2003, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by BMW_M52_M20
Exactly, if you have a Great amp you can make pretty much anything sound good!

True, but depending on how cheap the subs are......and how long will they last that way.


i wont agree on an amp making a cheap sub sound good...a while ago i had one 10' pioneer IMPP or watever. First i had a cheap legecy 400 Watt amp i got for free pushing it. Which did a pretty good job.

I bought a Fosgate 400s(or something like that), there wasn't much difference.....the fosgate was capable of blowing the sub but at a good listening level u can't tell the difference.

BUT back on topic.....i've read alot of good things about the Brahma, and im thinkin of getting one come sping.

Let us know what you choose.

EMPOWERD
12-09-2003, 02:59 AM
Forget RockHardProstate (Rockford Fosgate).... their current lineup is pure garbage no longer made in the USA. They went soft and pure-cheap mainstream.

Good Amps include ARC audio, Zapco, Soundstream, Orion and Memphis.

Some of the best subs out there are TREO and Beyond Audio.

BMW_M52_M20
12-09-2003, 03:03 AM
Originally posted by TrEvOrLiCioS
True, but depending on how cheap the subs are......and how long will they last that way.


i wont agree on an amp making a cheap sub sound good...a while ago i had one 10' pioneer IMPP or watever. First i had a cheap legecy 400 Watt amp i got for free pushing it. Which did a pretty good job.

I bought a Fosgate 400s(or something like that), there wasn't much difference.....the fosgate was capable of blowing the sub but at a good listening level u can't tell the difference.

BUT back on topic.....i've read alot of good things about the Brahma, and im thinkin of getting one come sping.

Let us know what you choose.

That what I meant by "Pretty much anything"..........

Quack
12-09-2003, 03:20 AM
well if anyone is interested I got a brand new Clarion 12inch sub 1000W for sale, it's their latest model, anyone interested PM me asking for $300

Schnell 318
12-09-2003, 03:29 AM
dont listen to these fools who have never herd of any of this stuff. first off dont touch audiobahn with a 10 foot pole, if a company has to make its product look good and its still cheap then they must save money somewhere else. audiobahn = shit. people are gonna say thats not true but all they have herd is rockford, kicker, pioneer, ect which are all low end brands and all sound really really crappy compared to the stuff you listed when paried with a good amp. those subs you listed are some of the best you can buy. all will have excelent sq and a ton of spl too.

the xxx will have the most spl and the brahma will be close behind. but the elemental is no slouch either.

e12a will have the best sq with the brahma close behind, followed by the xxx.

the e12a will do everything the xxx will do but better, personally i would take the e12a or the brahma over the xxx.

you will get better info and reponses here:

mostly for elemental designs questions,
http://forum.soundillusions.net/index.php?

go to the subwoofer solutions and ask and you will get tons of good info,
http://forum.sounddomain.com/

here is another great resource,
http://www.caraudio.com/vb/

there is a ton of info about these subs on sound domain just do a search.

another good sub that is in the same catagory as the others is the Magnum D2.

ROBM3
12-09-2003, 03:47 AM
Unless you are an audiophile, you wont know the difference !
Most people dont wanna spend alotta money on car audio....

So they buy mediocre stuff... The hardcore car audio enthusiast would never buy from Best Buy or Future shop etc.

What I am getting at is buy what you like and can/want to afford.

Schnell 318
12-09-2003, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by Miguel
However, I do agree that kicker and Audiobahn are great for pure pounding bass.

all of the subs you listed will flat out rule anthing audiobahn and kicker makes and sound a million times better at the same time.

Schnell 318
12-09-2003, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by ROBM3
Unless you are an audiophile, you wont know the difference !
Most people dont wanna spend alotta money on car audio....

So they buy mediocre stuff... The hardcore car audio enthusiast would never buy from Best Buy or Future shop etc.

What I am getting at is buy what you like and can/want to afford.

thats true but this stuff is only margianly more expensive, maybe $100 or $200 but it would sound worlds nicer and be louder too.

ROBM3
12-09-2003, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by Schnell 318
all of the subs you listed will flat out rule anthing audiobahn and kicker makes and sound a million times better at the same time.

YES BUT YOU ALSO NEED A GREAT AMP !

I'd rather have an awesome amp with an "OK" Sub.

Slowered318
12-09-2003, 03:58 AM
Miguel.. this is what i have! the TREO TSX, and believe me it hammers a lot of subs in the market expecially at the $300 level

Great sound quality and extream excursion (for thoes insane low notes)

www.treoonline.com

http://www.treoonline.com/graphics/tsx2_.jpg

Available in 10, 12, and 15 inch diameters.
Precision CNC-machined low-carbon steel motor structure (208oz)Powerful and durable double-stacked strontium ferrite magnets
Durable and attractive black oxide-treated motor structure
High-flow large diameter pole vent
High excursion motor structure and suspension design
Wide three-layer UV-treated foam surround
Resin-impregnated poly-cotton damper for increased cone control
Mica-impregnated polypropylene cone and dustcap
Cold-rolled stamped steel basket with rolled edges
2.5 inch high-temperature Aluminum voice coils
3.0 inch high-temperature Aluminum voice coils on TSX15.x
300 Watts RMS Power Handling (under rated)
Available with dual 2 Ohm and dual 4 Ohm voice coils for increased installation flexibility
Built by hand in the United States from domestic and imported components
Three year dealer installed warranty!!!

BMW BMXer
12-09-2003, 04:01 AM
Audiobahn will get loud. Low SQ.

RE is super super good. Hang around on soundomains forums and caraudioforums.com and they will let you know whats up.

JL w6 and w7 are awsome but hefty price.

An OK amp with a good sub or an OK sub with a good amp isn't ideal. Try to match the specs of the amp with the specs of the sub.

JL makes great amps, Zapco as well. Mixed opinions are had about RF amps and MTX amps.

Rob is right most people do not know the differeance. I did not know what clean bass was before I got rid of my bandpass setup and two mtx's.

ROBM3
12-09-2003, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by BMW BMXer
Rob is right most people do not know the differeance. I did not know what clean bass was before I got rid of my bandpass setup and two mtx's.

Am I ever wrong ? lol

j/ks :D

Slowered318
12-09-2003, 04:02 AM
You gotta watch out cause some of the huge magnet really stiff speakers like these (below) are made more for Competition then for music.. so basicly your system will only play 1 or 2 notes loud and the require thousands of watts to run.

be warned of them :D

http://www.treoonline.com/graphics/csx3_.jpghttp://www.perfect-tones.com/inhuman12-3.jpg

LOL.. all this talk reminds me of my Toyota's previous usage. It hit 152 db

http://www.perfect-tones.com/darryl-3.jpg

BMW BMXer
12-09-2003, 04:09 AM
http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/images/subThunder9500Side34.jpgMTX trying to get back their rep..

Schnell 318
12-09-2003, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by Slowered318
You gotta watch out cause some of the huge magnet really stiff speakers like these (below) are made more for Competition then for music.. so basicly your system will only play 1 or 2 notes loud and the require thousands of watts to run.


accualy you couldnt be further from the truth. all of the subs posted have large magnents like that and all sound great.

one of the biggest fators to consider when looking at a sub is xmax which is the one way linear displacement of a sub. one of the biggest limiting factors of xmax is the spider design.

take a look at this sub:
http://www.treoonline.com/graphics/tsx2_.jpg
see how the spider slopes inward, common low end design
now look at this sub:
http://www.treoonline.com/graphics/csx3_.jpg
see how the spider goes out then down, it allows the cone to move as far as it wants, it will never hit the spider meaner alot more xmax which means alot more linear displacement which means alot louder.

another common misconception is that a sub must have rms power to sound the best, this also couldnt be further from the truth. power is completely dependant upon box size. take the brahma for example. it is rated at 1600 rms, does that mean it takes 1600 watts to get is moving to full xmax? hell no.
it is completely dependent upon the size of the box its in.
you can put it in a 2 cubic feet box and it only needs 600 watts to get is to full xmax, or you could put it in a .1 cubic foot box and it would take 2800 watts.

the bigest single problem in car audio is that people will always think that what they have sounds kick ass because they usualy dont have anything better to compare it too. there are kids at my school who think that their 10" explod is so loud and sounds so good.

oh and mtx blows

Jase
12-09-2003, 04:23 AM
I have had kicker solo(power hungry) JL's ,cerwin's ect. I liked them for the bass but your sound stage is made up more of the other speakers. Like say a 6 piece component set or compression loaded horn drivers. If you get a high end sub lots out there in a sealed box nothing too big or the bass will hang. You should be concered also with how much power they need.
Just my .02
Jase

BMW BMXer
12-09-2003, 04:31 AM
Schnell most people should give a sub its rms power or the sub is not going to perform to their expectations.

Therefore they crank it amp goes into clipping sqaure signal...

We both know what happens then.

Schnell 318
12-09-2003, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by BMW BMXer
Schnell most people should give a sub its rms power or the sub is not going to perform to their expectations.

Therefore they crank it amp goes into clipping sqaure signal...

We both know what happens then.

you are right because most people know nothing of box sizing and use some shitty prefab box they got conned into buying along with the sub.

but since he is talking about a high end sub he should understand principles of box design and know that just because the brahma hes looking at says 1600 rms doesnt mean it needs 1600 watts. i will be purchasing one this spring with my birthday cash and i will only be giving it 600 watts but in a 2 cubic foot box that is the perfect amount of power for the 12 to reach its xmax.

Slowered318
12-09-2003, 04:55 AM
Schnell 318
I agree with you somewhat..

I'm not an expert, just a hobbyist (a lot of expert wannabe's out there) and dummies..

My point ..I've always gone with the medium sized subs. top of the line usually sounds like garbage and cost a fortune expecially to power them. bottom of the line sounds good for a few weeks untill they start spewing smoke.. but every sub design is slightly different and there is no way to know how it will sound by looking at a picture, the Spider, the magnet, or some big tire sized surround. so YOU couldn't be further then the truth :D

You wanna build a system? the box is what makes a system! not the sub or amp. but it helps to start with a sub that has a long throw design, a nice motor (with a good sized voice coil 2.5-3 inch) and a light weight stiff cone. that's the making of a good sub for music :) but in the wrong box all that money is wasted!

I have a Treo TSX in a 2.4 cube ported box and it sounds insane, so i'm happy and would recommend the sub. but if you like JL subs.. put one of thoes in my box and it'll sound just about the same.

but whatever bla bla bla.. let em wast money and make people rich LOL

Jase
12-09-2003, 05:33 AM
I used to have term cad software to design boxes. I never used it so I sold it. Anyone know where you can get some?. Slowered318 is right bad box design and the sub dosent matter.
Jase

MeAtWork
12-09-2003, 07:36 AM
How about Phoenix Gold, someone comment/experience?

http://dmark-ag.de/shop/catalog/images/Ti12.gif

Miguel
12-09-2003, 11:44 AM
Can anyone recommend a good place to buy the resonant, brahma, or ED?

So far, it seems like the brahma is the best all-around sub (can someone recommend a model?), the XXX is the loudest, hardest hitting sub, and the ED is the mona lisa of subs... supposedly just phenominal sound.

They seem to be in the $500 Cdn range. Any local places (GTA or surrounding area) selling these?

Schnell 318
12-09-2003, 01:26 PM
best place to buy the elemental is straigh from the source
http://www.edesignaudio.com

here is a good place for resonant engineering and adire
http://www.visionaryaudio.com/

EMPOWERD
12-09-2003, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by MeAtWork
How about Phoenix Gold, someone comment/experience?

http://dmark-ag.de/shop/catalog/images/Ti12.gif

Pheonix was good years ago... they suck now (like Rockford) and recently I heard they went Bankrupt.

Have any of you audio enthusiasts hear of DLS Audio? Apparently they're kicking ass in IASCA and EMMA. They sponsored my GT2 and I'm having 2 IASCA judges tune my car once the install is complete.

Lennon
12-09-2003, 03:39 PM
Randy, any pics of your GT2? *wave*

ROBM3
12-09-2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by EMPOWERD
Pheonix was good years ago... they suck now (like Rockford) and recently I heard they went Bankrupt.

Those companies dont "suck" now, it's just that there are a lot of other car audio companies that have developed their product a bit better.... and it reflects in higher costs as well.

PG and Rockford are pretty inexpensive . Out of all the known "Brand names", I would defenitly go with JL for amplifiers, and Boston acoustics for subs.

Miguel
12-09-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Schnell 318
best place to buy the elemental is straigh from the source
http://www.edesignaudio.com

here is a good place for resonant engineering and adire
http://www.visionaryaudio.com/

Hmmm The ED15A looks like a steal! 315Usd. is peanuts for a 15" sub of this calibre...
http://www.edesignaudio.com/ep2/15a.htm

The Adire Brahma is $439Usd... a bit on the expensive side.
http://www.visionaryaudio.com/adire.htm

but the RE XXX looks sooo damnnnn hottt
http://www.reaudio.com

Does anyone know anything about Onyx mobile audio? Aparently the supply parts/drivers for Resonant Engineering.
http://www.onyxmobileaudio.com/onyxmobileaudiolow.html

Gizmo
12-09-2003, 08:01 PM
Im sold on JL Audio products, yeah they may be pricey but you pay for what you get.

Their subs have excellent SQ and push out huge SPL if needed.

They play rock music better than anything I have ever heard. Its amazing how they reproduce a fast kick-drum, its like you are in the recording studio with the band.

I would say their "best buy" would be the JL 12" W3 v2, it is well priced and has so much SQ with bass that kicks you hard in the chest and stops instantly.

Jase
12-09-2003, 08:11 PM
Miguel I know you were only asking about subs but what is the rest of your sound stage like?.It is equally if not more important for sound quality. IMO
jase

Miguel
12-09-2003, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Jase
Miguel I know you were only asking about subs but what is the rest of your sound stage like?.It is equally if not more important for sound quality. IMO
jase

I have no soundstage.. Id like look at purchasing an entire setup in late spring/early summer and Im going to be buying everything one piece at a time.

But basically Im starting with sub > buy amp that meets sub specs > buy deck > buy components that fit in with everything