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Alezone
07-29-2003, 07:06 AM
RSX Type-S, TL/CL Type-S, etc... is it a V-TEC engine? It sounds very simliar to vtec when it's in high rpm, i also found the WRX sounds like vtec too under full throttle... is it just me? :confused:

Peter1998
07-29-2003, 07:55 AM
yes RSX Type S used 2.0 i-vtec engine

dtthiaga
07-29-2003, 11:22 AM
The CL and TL both have the Vtec engine.

The RSX, TSX and Accord all have the new I-Vtec engines.

The 2003 V6 Accord still has a Vtec engine (240hp).

Rolled_Out
07-29-2003, 11:34 AM
type s engine, i-vtec and its called a K20A2

Rolled_Out
07-29-2003, 11:35 AM
im talking about the rsx type s by the way..
not the cl type s or whatever...

SeRb
07-29-2003, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by Alezone
i also found the WRX sounds like vtec too under full throttle... is it just me? :confused:

it's called a turbo my friend;)

Alezone
07-29-2003, 05:55 PM
Originally posted by SeRb
it's called a turbo my friend;)

I know it's a turbo, but the engine rev's sound is similar to the vtec... weird... and I couldn't hear the "s~~~~~~~i" sound at all...maybe it was too loud... until I left off the throttle and shift, the blow-off valve showed me sth *drink*

M3ti Compact
07-30-2003, 04:15 AM
The VTEC sound is all about the valve timing. If the Subaru has the same or similar valve timing, then the sound effects would be similar. Just like how the Subaru sounds like a Porsche at idle because of the Boxter engine.

But if you ask me...I like the sound of power without the sound of trying...the strong silent types- BMW does this effect VERY VERY good.

VTEC sounds like the engine has gone into explode mode.

About the turbo sounds...have you played GT2? The turbo sounds EXACTLY like that- it's more of a hissing sound than a whistling sound diesel's make...minus the blowoff valve part- on a stock car it's much quieter. My scooter sounds like it's has a turbo because I took the glass pack out of the muffler...hehehe...it whistles at full throttle...it sounds awsome too...hehehe.

Soldo
07-30-2003, 04:53 AM
Originally posted by Alezone
I know it's a turbo, but the engine rev's sound is similar to the vtec... weird... and I couldn't hear the "s~~~~~~~i" sound at all...maybe it was too loud... until I left off the throttle and shift, the blow-off valve showed me sth *drink*
ya like just stated above, all the V-TEC is is variable valve timing, if you listen closely a LOT of cars have it, just not as STUPID as HONDA does it (IMO). I think its dumb how the V-TEC just kicks in like an extra boost, i like the SMOOTHER valve timing, which is what i-VTEC is, I THINK!
But ya, almost ALL new cars coming out are startin to use these varying valves, gives more power, and i think better fuel consumption as well, but its a BITCH on aftermarket cams pricing!!
BMW started there VANOS (German V-TEC) back in 93, so they weren't too far off from honda who started it back in 91 or 92 i believe!

HIM
07-30-2003, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by SOLDOMATIC 325i
ya like just stated above, all the V-TEC is is variable valve timing, if you listen closely a LOT of cars have it, just not as STUPID as HONDA does it (IMO). I think its dumb how the V-TEC just kicks in like an extra boost, i like the SMOOTHER valve timing, which is what i-VTEC is, I THINK!

I personally like the extra boost, feels like a small turbo :cool:

And yea, you don't hear the pssst noise from a WRX unless you really listen when they are going full throttle, I think you can hear it if they change the BOV or add an intake or any engine modification

PrinceE30
07-30-2003, 07:32 AM
Some of you are just making fools of yourselves with all the stuff you're blathering. In order to make this a FUD-Free board (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) I'll attempt to educate you about VTEC and why it (plain and simply) roxors VANOS.

1. VTEC : Variable Valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control. iVTEC is just "intelligent". That just means there's been computer advancements to it.

2. VANOS ONLY changes the valve timing in an infinatly variable way. That means it moves where the intake and exhaust valves are open with respect to the movement of the pistons. VTEC changes not only the valve timing, but changes the actual overlap of intake and exhaust. It changes the degree and duration of the cams and changes them...I pose a thought to you...

You guy spend $800-$1000-$1500 on new cams for your car. Performance cams that have better high end capability. Well, Honda has these cams which not only work well at low RPMs and give great gas milage...but when you pass the 6000RPM barrier you hit some high lift cams that'll push your HP higher than standard cam lobes. Better breathing through VTEC.

The iVTEC engines in the RSX Type-S and Type-R have 3 levels of cam profiles. One for docile, low RPM, high torque starts, one for normal driving, good milage, and one lobe for high end peak HP at high RPMS.

3. The sound of a turbo and VTEC are nothing alike. VTEC is a very feint click (which you can only hear with certain aftermarket intake systems which change the volume of air movement). After the "click" the engine will sound much louder (more air, more gas, larger explosions). The sound of a turbo is a "whoosh". The engine doesn't get louder because of the turbo, just because of fact that you are at a higher RPM. VTEC sounds like a different engine (and in a way, it is).

4.

ya like just stated above, all the V-TEC is is variable valve timing, if you listen closely a LOT of cars have it, just not as STUPID as HONDA does it (IMO). I think its dumb how the V-TEC just kicks in like an extra boost, i like the SMOOTHER valve timing, which is what i-VTEC is, I THINK!
But ya, almost ALL new cars coming out are startin to use these varying valves, gives more power, and i think better fuel consumption as well, but its a BITCH on aftermarket cams pricing!!
BMW started there VANOS (German V-TEC) back in 93, so they weren't too far off from honda who started it back in 91 or 92 i believe

a. you don't know waht you're talking about.
b. a lot of cars don't have it. BMW, Honda, Porsche, Toyota, and Nissan are the only marques off hand that have it.
c. Honda did a better job than most companies have. They are the originators afterall.
d. VTEC doesn't "kick in" like extra boost. It changes how the engine works. A turbo "kicks in" at a certain RPM (often called turbo lag).
e. iVTEC is just advancements in timing. Think build in variable VTEC timer.
f. cams cost a lot, no matter what who they are by or what they are for. cams with VANOS are no more complicated than NON-VANOS cams. LeARN BEFORE YOU ESPOUSE THINGS YOU DON'T KNOW ABOUT.
g. VTEC was originally used in Honda F1 engines of the mid-80s. BMW doesn't use VANOS in their current F1 engines. Even at that, VTEC was much before VANOS.

In conclusion...read up and learn about a topic before you start spouting off like you're a BMW engineer. VTEC IS a superior technology. It does more and it does it better. It also isn't how BMW works their engines. Two different philosophies...that's all.

-Prince

sadda///M
07-30-2003, 04:40 PM
completely wrong

SeRb
07-30-2003, 05:08 PM
Originally posted by M3ti Compact
Just like how the Subaru sounds like a Porsche at idle because of the Boxter engine.


its BOXER engine NOT BOXTER. . .HOLY SHIT. . . .


boxer engine means the pistons are horizontally opposed instead of vertical. . .
so they dont go up and down,
they go from side to side

this is more efficient or whatever cuz it gives the car more stability cuz of a lower centre of gravity yadda yadda yadda
im not into physics so i cant explain anything

BUT PLEASE DO NOT CALL IT A BOXTER ENGINE

PrinceE30
07-30-2003, 05:17 PM
A Boxer engine is good not becuase of efficiency or anything, though you are correct about the lower center of gravity. The boxer engine (or "flat" engine) is go great becuse normal engines require either a I6 or V12 to be completely balanced and harmonically neutral. However, ANY number of cylinders in a flat engine (as long as the number's even) are already perfectly harmonically balanced. Thus, there's less wear and stress on the engine parts. Longer life. Smoother operation.

sadda///M completely wrong

...who?

-Prince

SickFinga
07-30-2003, 06:12 PM
actually VANOS is way more advanced system than V-TEC.
V-TEC, just works after oil pressure build up at higher RPMs
while VANOS takes in effect everything, temperature, style of driving, position of the accelerator pedal.
V-TEC was introduced in NSX in 1991, VANOS was intirudec in all 6cyl BMW in 1993.
I'm not sure why Honda used V-TEC system on their Formula F1, when V-TEC is just a way to make a car faster when you need it. In formula 1, that doesn't make any sense.
Most car manufactures has variable valve timing. add to your list, ford, pontiac...

i-VTEC is an answer to BMW's VANOS. V-TEC is no way more advanced than VANOS.

PrinceE30
07-30-2003, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by SickFinga
actually VANOS is way more advanced system than V-TEC.
V-TEC, just works after oil pressure build up at higher RPMs
while VANOS takes in effect everything, temperature, style of driving, position of the accelerator pedal.
V-TEC was introduced in NSX in 1991, VANOS was intirudec in all 6cyl BMW in 1993.
I'm not sure why Honda used V-TEC system on their Formula F1, when V-TEC is just a way to make a car faster when you need it. In formula 1, that doesn't make any sense.
Most car manufactures has variable valve timing. add to your list, ford, pontiac...

i-VTEC is an answer to BMW's VANOS. V-TEC is no way more advanced than VANOS.

First off- was unaware of Pontiac and Ford VVT technology. Seems as if the current F150s and Thunderbirds have them as well as the Pontiac Vibe. Interesting!

Secondly - the part of iVTEC I forgot about was probably the most important feature over the standards VTEC. There is normally one intake runner on any engine's intake (like your M50/M52/M54/etc). However, iVTEC engines open up a second intake runner (and closes the first) to feed the extra oxygen needed by high lift VTEC cams. This changes the torque characteristics (more grunt off the line and more useable TQ (HP) up high when you've already started moving). At low to mid RPM ranges the runners are very long (like the standard BMW manifold). However, at High RMPs the intake runner close the long runner intake and open a valve that moves the intake runner to right next to where the valves are on the head (similar to the M intake manifold before you get to the throttle bodies).

iVTEC is this....Variable Valve Timing and Electronic Lift Control AND Variable Overlap Timing Control. This means that (we'll use the K20 and K20A here) with 3 seperate cam lobes, Honda has programmed in 36 difference engine "modes" depending upon driving conditions and the drivers actions. No only is oil used to actuate the rocker arms (to enable performance or economy cams) but to actuate the cam timing (as VANOS does). This is where VTC comes in play. This is something non-iVTEC engines didn't used.

HOW is VANOS more advanced then VTEC?

The shear number of technologies of these engines make them much more advanced than basic VANOS or even Double-VANOS engines (something Honda has always changed...intake and exhaust cams). VANOS changes ONLY the timing of the cams. That means it can advance or delay the cams timing by 90 degrees maximum depending upon speed, rpms, heat, etc. There's no change in actual cam lobes. This multi-lobe idea is KEY to Hondas great high end power (with small engines) as well as low end starting torque (for relativly small engines) and great fuel economy.

As to the F1 question...

F1 cars still need torque down low when they are going around hairpins and such. Though gearing usually helps cars out a lot (since these cars don't have a lot of peak torque), it's good to have both good low end torque and high end power for that accelleration (usable torque) and 18,000+ RPMs to use all that power.

I'm still trying to find a good article on Honda F1 engines.

-Prince

SickFinga
07-30-2003, 08:48 PM
ever heard of VALVETRONIC?

back to F1
i won't argue about that since i dont really know, but it is just doesnt make any sense.
if you recall a dyno graph from a V-TEC engine and look at the torque curve you will see that it is not like you want it to be, no torque before VTEC, and torque line become flat only when VTEC kicks in. So how does VTEC helps to the low end torque?

PrinceE30
07-30-2003, 09:27 PM
Have you even seen a VTEC torque curve?

See the following:

http://performance.clubrsx.com/dyno/k20a2/3-26-03-Dyno2.jpg

http://performance.clubrsx.com/dyno/k20a2/3-26-03-Dyno3.jpg

http://performance.clubrsx.com/dyno/k20a2/3-26-03-Dyno4.jpg

It's almost flat with the power after VTEC (up high) jumps above what the standard power rise is for the bast cams. Torque is needed down low and up high (where torque usually recedes). This is good for a road car or F1 (since fuel consumption is less imporant than power, don't need to worry about it as much).

As for Valvetronic...

Only the intake cams are changed. Granted this is infinatly variable for the cam lift, but you still need change the exhaust valves as well (though I'm sure eventual valvetronics will have such). Also, Valvetronic uses more cams shafts than a standard DOHC because of it's eccentric shaft.

When comparing iVTEC and Valvetronic it's six of one, half-dozen of another. Both are GOOD quality VVT systems that make more power and run cleaner than previous engines. Saying one is better than the other is pointless. They do what the were meant to do and for the enthusiast, they both make our cars go faster.

-Prince