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Bullet Ride
03-11-2012, 04:06 PM
Well, I've been chipping away at this project for a couple months now but haven't really felt like putting the work into starting a thread. However a lazy Sunday afternoon is a better time than any so here it goes...

First, the back story to the project...

The spark to attempt this build came back in 2010 when this happened...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/325i/DSC01839.jpg

In my hunt for a replacement oil pan Rob (El Gato Liso) told me that I could have his old B25 motor (that he pulled to swap in his now oil pissing M50 :P) for pretty much the cost of a used oil pan at the time. He even let me borrow his engine hoist so that I could unload the motor at home; nice guy *th-up*.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/325i/DSC01836.jpg

So after I finished replacing the oil pan on my car I was left with the rest of the motor and a big question mark about what to do with it. I definitely wasn't going to scrap it. I could have kept it for spare parts or sold the rest of the parts and actually made some profit off of my foray into oil pan smashing but where's the fun in that?

I remembered reading about an M20 2.8L stroker that used a combination of OEM BMW parts, so I did a little bit of research and came across a few build threads (and a few more have popped up between then and now, one local example is NOTORIOUS VR who built that turbo 2.8L stroker last year). The combination of parts required is as follows:
- M20B25 cylinder head (885 casting), block and late model (short skirt) pistons... which I already had
- M52B28 crankshaft
- 130mm connecting rods from either the M20B20 or M20B27
- crank spacer for front oil seal

I figured it wouldn't be very hard to find the missing pieces so I stashed the motor away and kept my eye out for the missing pieces. Before Christmas that year I had picked up a 325e motor and stashed it away. Then last year I came across the crank I needed in Kentucky and had it shipped to a relative of mine who happens to live in Kentucky and who happens to come to Canada to visit us once or twice a year... you can see where I was going with that.

Bullet Ride
03-11-2012, 04:06 PM
Fast forward to this winter. It's my first winter in 5 years that I'm not in school, so with more free time on my hands than I'm use to I mustered up the gumption to dive into this project.

Goals for the project:

- budget stroker = keep cost to a minimum
- make at least as much power as the 2.8L motor that the crank came out of (~190hp) but with my old shitty 2 valve head ;)
- mainly learn about building a motor as this is the first time I've attempted to build a motor of any kind

Performance parts to be added:

- Ireland Engineering heavy duty rockers (for all day 7000rpm duty)
- Some sort of performance headers
- Some sort of performance cam
- Lightened flywheel
- Crank scraper
- adjustable cam gear
- DIYPNP engine management (which in turn will give AFM delete)
- ITB set-up (this will be another project for after the motor is built and running)

Before the snow hit I bought an engine stand and pulled Rob's old motor back into the garage to become a permanent resident for the winter...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/b25005.jpg

On a side note: After I had pulled the oil pan off that motor I ended up dumping it on a piece of plywood in the bush and covering it with a plastic tarp. It sat there for two years with the crank case open to the atmosphere. I was quite surprised to see when I brought it back into the garage that there was no rust on the cylinder bores at all.

Unfortunately it didn't even cross my mind to take pictures of the motor during the initial tear down but I bagged and tagged all the bits that came off.

Once I had the head disassembled I did an El Ghetto test to see if any of the valves were leaking...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild002.jpg

Only the one exhaust valve was leaking...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild005.jpg

However the shop that I'm taking the head to for decking said that they'll vacuum check the valve to valve seat seal of all the valves for $20. So I'm going to get them to do that.

Initial inspection of the head showed quite the step from the exhaust port to the manifold...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild011.jpg

I figured this might be for anti-reversion, but I'd look into it further.
Continuing the tear down, I ripped into the bottom end. Sometimes the timing gear can get seized on when corrosion creeps in between the gear and the crank. I got lucky and mine slid right off

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild012.jpg

Then I got to cleaning up the head...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild020.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild021.jpg

Next I needed the connecting rods out of that 325e motor. When I bought it, I ended up putting it in the back of our wood shed. Not having a convenient way of getting it to the garage I decided to tackle it on one of the not so cold days...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild028.jpg

Roll out the red carpet...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild029.jpg

Bullet Ride
03-11-2012, 04:07 PM
One of the concerns I had was whether or not the oil had been drained out of the motor. Obviously it wasn't... because that would be too easy. I wasn't about to just let the oil drain into the ground, especially when we get our water from a well on the property, so I had to figure out how to get the motor high enough to get a drain pan under it. It turned out to be a delicate process of kicking boards under each end as I lifted each side by hand...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild030.jpg

Gassed from muscling the motor around I contemplated... Does tearing apart an eta motor on the ground, in the back of an open woodshed, during the winter just to get a set of connecting rods make me a gear head? I meditated on the thought while the oil drained...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild036.jpg

Then I realized that time would have been better spent removing the wiring harness and coolant hoses. Back to work. Shortly after I had the head off...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild037.jpg

The bores in the motor are in very nice condition which brings me to the question... Does anybody want parts from this motor? With the exception of the rods the rest of the bits are there and I have no need for them any more...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild039.jpg

Then I rolled the motor over so I could pull the rod caps and push out the pistons and rods...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild041.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild047.jpg

Back in the garage: A comparison between the 135mm B25 rod and short skirt piston and the 130mm B27 rod and piston...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild050.jpg

325e flat top vs 325i domed piston...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild051.jpg

Then I checked the top deck to piston relation at TDC using the stock components for later reference...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild057.jpg

The lowest part of the piston (on the left side of the image) comes past the deck ~1.0mm

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild060.jpg

Bullet Ride
03-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Then I separated the pistons from the rods. These rods definitely look beefy. It's no wonder the turbo guys have been able to push 400whp on the stock bottom ends...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild064.jpg

A quick tip I learned, unless you have to, never fully remove the wrist pin from the piston, only push it out enough to get the rod out. Even on these floating pin pistons it's a close enough fit that it can be difficult to get the pin back in. If it's the slightest bit crooked the pin won't go anywhere and you'll end up damaging the hole if you try to tap the pin in with a hammer. in order to get the one pin that I fully removed back in I had to stick the pin out on the snow while heating the piston in a vice with a propane plumbing torch. Then it slid in no problem.

Then I wanted to test fit the 2.8L crank with the 130mm rods and B25 pistons. Already knowing that there was going to be an interference between the counterweight on the crank and the piston skirt.

2.5L vs forged 2.8L crank...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild067.jpg

Welcome to your new home M52B28 crank and M20B27 rods. M20B25 piston meet your new roomates...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild072.jpg

That didn't last long, they got into a fight just before TDC...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild075.jpg

This is to help visualize what's going on. As you can see, the counterweights are right up in the piston skirt's business and the connecting rod ends up with a separated cap...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild076.jpg

There's only one counterweight that gets along and it's the last one just before the rear main seal. Nice guys finish last...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild077.jpg

Off to the machine shop. It was hard to tell exactly how much to take off the counterweights because it's hard to measure without modelling and knowing the offset of the firing plane from the crank axis. I've been told that taking off ~0.25" will get it to clear. However after having taken off 0.2" I wasn't convinced there would be enough clearance. So to avoid having to come back to the machine shop I took off another 0.1" and put a generous chamfer on the counterweights. One thing to note is that as you get to 0.2" of material removal you will start cutting into edge on the opposite side by the connecting rod journal. I wouldn't say it's anything to worry about though as it's not really a load bearing feature.

Make sure to tape the journal surfaces you they don't get damaged by flying metal chips...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild080.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild082.jpg

Bullet Ride
03-11-2012, 04:08 PM
Back at home, another test fit shows that everything now rotates freely, even though all the parts are still up in each others business...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild085.jpg

As you can see in the picture above, with the extra stroke the skirt of the piston comes out of the bottom of the bore by about 4mm (add 9mm of stroke and remove 5mm of rod length) whereas the stock piston sits flush. Obviously this isn't ideal as you are losing a bit of lateral support and with the reduced rod ratio the side load is increasing. However this occurs at the point of lowest load in the cycle so it's probably not a huge concern, and the fact that this combination has already been built and proven a number of times is proof of that.

Looks fancy, but still needs to be balanced...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild090.jpghttp://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild099.jpg

The new piston to deck relation. The piston sits ~0.5mm lower. This means the block will have to be decked 0.5mm to regain the same squish between the piston and the head. Apparently a 0.5mm deck on the block and a skin of the head should result in a ~9.5:1 compression ratio which is nice.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild103.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild107.jpg

A before and after comparison to help visualize...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild107B.jpg

Then I spent some time cleaning up the crusty block so that it can go get decked and then painted...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild112.jpg

I tried blasting the block at work but they didn't have the right media, it helped but it didn't do as good of a job as I hoped it would. Oh well, it's good to go now...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild119.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild120.jpg

And I buffed the raised bits on the valve cover for the pimp factor...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild121.jpg

Bullet Ride
03-11-2012, 04:09 PM
While all of this was happening I got in on that group buy for the racing dynamics headers. I tried looking around for headers. the IE shorty headers look fancy but in reality all they do is look good, the primaries are too short to be useful. The long tube ebay headers, you can't beat the price but you will have to beat the headers to make them fit which I didn't like the idea of. So these RD headers seemed like a good option at a fair price. They should look something like this...

http://www.strictlyeta.net/technical/rdheaders/325i_headers.jpg
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2dc26b3127cceff1b2edb81b700000030O08BcNGLJs0bg9 vPgo/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

With that in mind and knowing that the inner diameter of the primaries was slightly larger than the gasket diameter I didn't see a need for such a large step from the gasket to the exhaust port. I decided to 'match' the ports to the gasket (still leaving a small step).

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild139.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild140.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild141.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild142.jpg

Before and after...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild145.jpg

In order to do it I used a rotary tool, and my hands. I started with an HSS cutting bit to hog out most of the material. Then I smoothed it out with a grinding stone. Then I sanded it smooth using 60, 100, 150, and 200 grit paper consecutively. Will it make a difference? Without a flow bench I have no idea. However I do know that the heads Alpina use to do up for the E30 were gasket matched along with some other port modifications and they saw a 13% increase in flow. If anything, at least the ports are smoother now which is good on the exhaust side. Once I get an intake gasket set I'll gasket match the intake as well (if it needs it) but I won't polish the ports as that actually hurts the flow on the intake side.

Then I spent a little bit of time cleaning up the valves...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild136.jpg

And that's all for now folks!

everlast
03-11-2012, 05:11 PM
Enjoyed, subbed and looking forward to more!! :)

Woofer
03-11-2012, 09:10 PM
Looking forward to the out come. I also have a M20b27 just lying around. Maybe this will motivate me lol

Good luck!!!

Good luck.

T.Dot_E30
03-11-2012, 11:04 PM
Looks good! Can't wait to see it in action.

El Gato Liso
03-11-2012, 11:25 PM
*rockout**rockout**rockout**rockout**rockout*

msinger
03-12-2012, 10:05 AM
looks awesome! keep it coming!

Bullet Ride
03-12-2012, 12:13 PM
Thanks guys. The head and the block will be going to the machine shop this week to get decked. I will also be sending the crank for balancing, which reminds me. I need to call Rene to pick up that single mass flywheel so I can lighten it...

InfiniteDice
03-12-2012, 01:14 PM
On the exhaust side it's not so much the head port It's the exhaust header /manifold you need to worry about. Ideally it should be smooth airflow from the engine.

I left the ports on my head slightly larger(SMALLER!!! thx bullet) than the gasket. And opened the ports of the manifold slightly larger than the gasket. They never seem to fit 100% and that will ensure you don't have a ledge of material sticking out someplace. Also I wasn't too worried about disturbing the back-flow.

Looks like fun... I'd love to be playing around with a motor again. Maybe one day....

Almost Ready (http://home.cogeco.ca/~mroberts4/engine327i.jpg)
Shiney Head (http://home.cogeco.ca/~mroberts4/head327ibag.jpg)

Bullet Ride
03-12-2012, 02:54 PM
I left the ports on my head slightly larger than the gasket.

You never want the ports on the head to be larger than the hole in the gasket because then your exhaust flow will just be running into a wall.

InfiniteDice
03-12-2012, 03:55 PM
haha... yes I talked myself backwards there, what I meant was,

DIAMETERS:
BIGGEST --------------- Smallest
Exhaust Port.....Gasket.....Head

We're not talking a wall here, more like a very small .5 - 1mm lip.

That way the flow steps out to the larger area... when/if you get back flow it will hit the lip but that's not important.

Bullet Ride
03-12-2012, 04:32 PM
haha... yes I talked myself backwards there, what I meant was,

DIAMETERS:
BIGGEST --------------- Smallest
Exhaust Port.....Gasket.....Head

We're not talking a wall here, more like a very small .5 - 1mm lip.

That way the flow steps out to the larger area... when/if you get back flow it will hit the lip but that's not important.

That makes more sense *th-up*

That's what I did as well, except I left the port diameter in the head about 2mm smaller all the way around to account for the ability of the exhaust gasket to shift. I don't want any overlapping of the gasket and the port in the head.

T.Dot_E30
03-12-2012, 04:35 PM
Not sure if you mentioned it, but you probably also want to port match the intake manifold ports to the gasket also.

I remember doing that when I built an m20, no idea if there were any gains from it, but it didn't hurt.

E30M42cab
03-12-2012, 06:15 PM
Steve, you should put this m20 in a boat!









































This will help you determine how much chain you will need for it to safely reach the bottom:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h179/e30m42cab/anchor.gif

Just kidding, good work ;)

Bullet Ride
03-12-2012, 07:24 PM
Not sure if you mentioned it, but you probably also want to port match the intake manifold ports to the gasket also.

I remember doing that when I built an m20, no idea if there were any gains from it, but it didn't hurt.

I did mention it. That's the plan*th-up*

Steve, you should put this m20 in a boat!

This will help you determine how much chain you will need for it to safely reach the bottom:

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h179/e30m42cab/anchor.gif

Just kidding, good work ;)


I'll use the 325e block and crank as a boat anchor unless someone wants to buy them. I also have two 325e heads.

BMe30
03-12-2012, 08:11 PM
May i recomend?.....

GsxR 750 & 1000 from 2000-2003

750 & 1000 are essentially the same

80mm spacing between bore centres

48mm ID, 54mm OD at inlet

42mm ID, 48mm OD at exit

You might want to use those bc they can seperate individually and respace as needed...

Bullet Ride
03-12-2012, 10:11 PM
May i recomend?.....

GsxR 750 & 1000 from 2000-2003

750 & 1000 are essentially the same

80mm spacing between bore centres

48mm ID, 54mm OD at inlet

42mm ID, 48mm OD at exit

You might want to use those bc they can seperate individually and respace as needed...

That's good info. I'm definitely looking for individual, individual throttle bodies lol. Thanks Bruno.

BMe30
03-12-2012, 10:43 PM
That's good info. I'm definitely looking for individual, individual throttle bodies lol. Thanks Bruno.

*rockout*

And here is another helping hand for you....

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RC-2344

:cool:

Bullet Ride
03-12-2012, 11:35 PM
*rockout*

And here is another helping hand for you....

http://www.knfilters.com/search/product.aspx?Prod=RC-2344

:cool:

Nah when I go itb I'm definitely going with itg socks
http://89.206.185.119/oncirrus/3/images/product/enlarge/itg_filter-sock-3.jpg

DIY
03-12-2012, 11:43 PM
Baller! I can't wait to hear this scream!
If your gonna get new rockers why not new springs too? Then some 9000 RPM fun :D

BMe30
03-13-2012, 06:44 AM
Nah when I go itb I'm definitely going with itg socks
http://89.206.185.119/oncirrus/3/images/product/enlarge/itg_filter-sock-3.jpg

Nice! I was looking for something like that to go over velocity stacks.. But couldnt find a good source for stacks with a bug screen

Bullet Ride
03-13-2012, 08:12 AM
Baller! I can't wait to hear this scream!
If your gonna get new rockers why not new springs too? Then some 9000 RPM fun :D

I am getting new springs, but just oem ones, not upgraded ones. I ended up buying a Schrick 284/272 cam and although upgraded springs are recommended I've seen the same cam used on stock springs go up to 7500rpm. I'm not really interested (at least not yet *shiner*) in going over 7000rpm since the stock tach only goes up to 7000rpm and without some port work and itbs the head most likely won't flow enough to be useful past that rpm anyway.

Nice! I was looking for something like that to go over velocity stacks.. But couldnt find a good source for stacks with a bug screen

Yeah I was thinking about that the other day too, I'd want a few sets of stacks with different lengths and then try each on the dyno but they can be expensive. I was thinking about making my own, put some thin walled stainless tube on a lathe and use some sort of mandrel to flare it out then roll the edge. As I said that's going to be a whole other project....

BMe30
03-13-2012, 08:54 AM
This might save you a little time and money....

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=294784

InfiniteDice
03-13-2012, 10:05 AM
http://www.vibrantperformance.com/main.php Amazing array of parts.

Bought my whole exhaust system from them, decent prices, good items and Canadian company.

Bullet Ride
03-13-2012, 10:35 AM
http://www.vibrantperformance.com/main.php Amazing array of parts.

Bought my whole exhaust system from them, decent prices, good items and Canadian company.

This will come in handy if I end up deciding to do my own exhaust.

DIY
03-13-2012, 10:53 AM
This might save you a little time and money....



Hey Bruno you try that aluminum soilder yet on your intake (from vibrant)? If it works steve could prob use it too..

http://www.aptuned.com/18960

BMe30
03-13-2012, 11:01 AM
Hey Bruno you try that aluminum soilder yet on your intake (from vibrant)? If it works steve could prob use it too..

http://www.aptuned.com/18960

No havent tried it yet... Still waiting on parts

InfiniteDice
03-13-2012, 11:40 AM
Man that shit looks cool... I'm sure in certain situations it could be a godsend. I wants it my precious!

Bullet Ride
03-13-2012, 11:45 AM
Hey Bruno you try that aluminum soilder yet on your intake (from vibrant)? If it works steve could prob use it too..

http://www.aptuned.com/18960

Man that shit looks cool... I'm sure in certain situations it could be a godsend. I wants it my precious!

I came across a similar product last year when doing research for a project

http://durafix.com/

Their demonstration video is pretty good.
It's definitely something I'm considering when this project rolls around.
I need to finish building the motor first though *uzi*

SamE30e
03-14-2012, 01:52 PM
I am getting new springs, but just oem ones, not upgraded ones. I ended up buying a Schrick 284/272 cam and although upgraded springs are recommended I've seen the same cam used on stock springs go up to 7500rpm. I'm not really interested (at least not yet *shiner*) in going over 7000rpm since the stock tach only goes up to 7000rpm and without some port work and itbs the head most likely won't flow enough to be useful past that rpm anyway.



Stock springs are deadly above 7200. Either start floating or snap, especially with a higher lift cam. And isn't a 284 a very aggressive cam?

DIY
03-14-2012, 02:00 PM
ITB's will help the harsh idle from the cam

Bullet Ride
03-14-2012, 02:08 PM
Stock springs are deadly above 7200. Either start floating or snap, especially with a higher lift cam. And isn't a 284 a very aggressive cam?

As I said I don't plan on going over 7000 with them. On tired springs I wouldn't even try it, but with fresh springs it should be fine. The 284 cam is in the middle of the Schrick range for the M20. The 272 is their street/DD cam, the 284 is the hi-performance street/mild track cam, the 288 cam is for ‘street legal’ track cars, and the 304 is for flat out race cars.

SamE30e
03-15-2012, 06:05 PM
Springs aren't that expensive. Why not upgrade?

InfiniteDice
03-15-2012, 08:02 PM
Upgrade springs are 300$. Go to korman... That's some nice stuff for those with the $$$.

Bullet Ride
03-16-2012, 09:14 AM
Springs aren't that expensive. Why not upgrade?

A set of stock replacement springs is ~$70 vs performance springs which are ~$330. I can put that money I saved towards the adjustable cam gear I'll need. This is a budget stroker after all.

Upgrade springs are 300$. Go to korman... That's some nice stuff for those with the $$$.

Yeah, they've got some nice stuff on their site, but there are no posted prices.

Bullet Ride
03-20-2012, 08:13 PM
Small update..
I picked up the head and the block from the machine shop today...

Head decked

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild158.jpg

Block decked 0.5mm

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild160.jpg

Bores deglazed

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild162.jpg

I've got a lead on a flywheel and I'm taking the crank to a shop tomorrow evening to get an idea of how easy/difficult it's going to be to balance it. This weekend I'll work on prepping the block for paint.

z3frog
03-20-2012, 08:56 PM
Wow, awesome project. I could learn a lot from this!

BMe30
03-20-2012, 09:03 PM
Nice!

Woofer
03-21-2012, 12:03 AM
What color are you going to paint the block?

Can't wait to see this thing in action.

Good luck.

Bullet Ride
03-21-2012, 08:09 AM
What color are you going to paint the block?

Still deciding what colours to choose between the block and valve cover, and if I want to paint the intake manifold.

NOTORIOUS VR
03-21-2012, 10:15 AM
looking good! getting an adjustable cam gear I hope to at least correct for the timing difference from decking the head and block?

Bullet Ride
03-21-2012, 10:40 AM
looking good! getting an adjustable cam gear I hope to at least correct for the timing difference from decking the head and block?

Yep. It's on the list of parts to buy. What one did you go with? The VAC ones are pretty expensive. I'm considering this one http://www.r-mracing.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/27_28_29/products_id/33

Although I really am considering making my own seeing as this is all any place selling adjustable cam gears is doing...

http://www.r-mracing.com/images/e30m20cambackside.gif

I've heard bad things about the cheap ebay gears with the tooth patterns being off causing belts not to fit.

Bullet Ride
03-26-2012, 02:58 PM
Not too much to update about. I'm supposed to be picking up a flywheel tonight and will hopefully get into the shop tomorrow night to lighten it. Then I can get my crank balanced with the flywheel and get to assembling the bottom end. Also, a friend of a friend might be powder coating the block for me (depending on what he says it will cost).

Today at lunch I measured up my cam gear and drew this. It shouldn't be too hard to make with a mill and a dividing head.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/AdjustableCamGear.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/AdjustableCamGear2.jpg

frankie591
03-26-2012, 04:19 PM
let me know where you get your flywheel machined and how the price/quality is. I'm gonna need to get mine done for my m52 swap.

Bullet Ride
03-26-2012, 04:36 PM
let me know where you get your flywheel machined and how the price/quality is. I'm gonna need to get mine done for my m52 swap.

I'm going to be doing the lightening myself at a friend's shop. I'm not sure if they can do it, but give Heimpel Automotive a call. They decked my block and head and I was satisfied with both the price and the quality of work. If they say they'll send it out to be done they are more than likely sending it to Forest and Forest Racing. They are located in Ayr. That's the shop where my crank is getting balanced. I haven't gone to pick it up yet so I can't comment on their work but the gentleman I spoke with at the shop was friendly and knowledgeable.

Bullet Ride
03-27-2012, 12:33 PM
Quick update. I picked up a flywheel last night. It weighed in @19lbs (as expected). I am going to be lightening it this evening and will update with the after weight and pics tomorrow.

Just a side note. The shop I picked up the flywheel from is located in Mississauga and is called KTM Motorworks. It's a one man shop and the guy who runs it is an E30 nut, he's got a built Turbo M20 in the shop that he told me put down 500hp on pump gas last year. He told me he's planning on getting a better turbo and some race gas this year for some serious power. Overall he was a nice guy to deal with.

noodles101
03-27-2012, 01:46 PM
^^ i think i saw you bombing it on 401 west last night , u got off at guelph exit i believe.

Bullet Ride
03-27-2012, 03:23 PM
^^ i think i saw you bombing it on 401 west last night , u got off at guelph exit i believe.

Probably. Would have been around 9:30ish.

Bullet Ride
03-28-2012, 08:52 AM
Flywheel updates:

Started by turning down the step

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/2012-03-27200716.jpg

Then I cut away some of the middle

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/2012-03-27205411.jpg

Finished result

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/2012-03-27211213.jpg

I just weighed it and it came in at 15lbs. This was my first attempt at lightening a flywheel so I was conservative with how much material I removed. I definitely know where the other pounds can be removed next time around. However for now I'm happy with a 21% weight reduction.

The flywheel and pressure plate are going to get balanced with the crank this evening.

BMe30
03-28-2012, 10:13 AM
http://www.wildsoundmovies.com/images/fast_and_furious_jesse.jpg

This will decimate all *rockout*

T.Dot_E30
03-28-2012, 10:49 AM
Looks good man!

nate_s89
03-28-2012, 11:18 AM
Looks awesome, I'm jealous of the machine shop hook ups.

Bullet Ride
03-28-2012, 12:05 PM
Looks awesome, I'm jealous of the machine shop hook ups.

You work at Linamar, just make friends with the guys who work on the manual mills and lathes if you have them at your shop ;)

El Gato Liso
03-28-2012, 12:11 PM
the light fly wheel feels so different...drives like a 4 cyl, moves like a six :)

i think when i yank my engine out im gonna have my pops lighten my flywheel even more! i only shaved of 3mm.


can't wait to see this project done brooo

nate_s89
03-28-2012, 12:11 PM
^^I wish I had the time to make that happen. Contract is up here shortly I am moving to Michigan for another one. Will have to start over again on trying to get the perks haha.

Bullet Ride
03-28-2012, 01:00 PM
the light fly wheel feels so different...drives like a 4 cyl, moves like a six :)

The 4 cylinders actually have pretty heavy flywheels to help them get off the line smoothly without having to rev them too high. A lot of the M42 guys do lightened M20 flyweel swaps.

^^I wish I had the time to make that happen. Contract is up here shortly I am moving to Michigan for another one. Will have to start over again on trying to get the perks haha.

Talk to the guys at McLaren Performance they build trick motors for a living ;)

nate_s89
03-28-2012, 01:05 PM
Well it just so happens that's where my next contract is. I'm hoping some good things will come of it. They have some sweet new facilities.

Bullet Ride
03-28-2012, 01:46 PM
Well it just so happens that's where my next contract is. I'm hoping some good things will come of it. They have some sweet new facilities.

When you said Michigan that's what I figured. I got a tour of their facilities about 7 years ago and got to see some pretty sweet stuff. I'd definitely like to go back there now to check it out. Working there would be alright too *th-up*

Bullet Ride
03-28-2012, 08:21 PM
A couple more pics....

When I was in the shop yesterday I turned down the pulley adaptor from the M52 crank to make the oil spacer needed. I also squared up the inside of the cam gear for my attempt at a DIY adjustable cam gear (still needs to be deburred).

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild165.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild166.jpg

nate_s89
03-30-2012, 07:57 AM
When you said Michigan that's what I figured. I got a tour of their facilities about 7 years ago and got to see some pretty sweet stuff. I'd definitely like to go back there now to check it out. Working there would be alright too *th-up*

They definitely build some cool stuff, and they have been expanding like crazy since Linamar bought them. If you are ever in the area let me know Id be glad to show you around.

Your build is inspiring, keep it up!

SamE30e
03-30-2012, 08:57 PM
Flywheel updates:

I just weighed it and it came in at 15lbs. This was my first attempt at lightening a flywheel so I was conservative with how much material I removed. I definitely know where the other pounds can be removed next time around. However for now I'm happy with a 21% weight reduction.

The flywheel and pressure plate are going to get balanced with the crank this evening.


Ask my brother. He lightened and modded my M20 euro wheel to 11lbs. Also, he made his own flywheel for his RX-7 which was pretty ****ing tits.

Bullet Ride
03-31-2012, 11:03 AM
Ask my brother. He lightened and modded my M20 euro wheel to 11lbs. Also, he made his own flywheel for his RX-7 which was pretty ****ing tits.

I was talking to him about it the other day actually.

Bullet Ride
04-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Small update

I picked up the crank and flywheel from balancing on Friday.
Here is the flywheel and pressure plate. They didn't need too much. You can see a little bit was ground off the edge of the pressure plate and there's one small hole that was drilled into the flywheel.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild167.jpg

Here's the crank...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild168.jpg

This is what the one end took...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild170.jpg

This is what the other end took...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild171.jpg

Looking back on when I was machining the crank, when I put the chamfers on the counterweights I just did it by eye because I figured it was just for added clearance and wasn't that critical. However in retrospect I should have measured and made sure all the chamfers were equal because in the end it affects the balance of the crank.

I also got the lasercut for the cam gear however it still needs to be machined.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild174.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild175.jpg

Bullet Ride
04-07-2012, 06:45 PM
I painted the block and valve cover this afternoon. I used VHT low gloss black engine enamel for the block and VHT wrinkle red (Ferrari stlye) for the valve cover

Block scrubbed and wiped down...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild180.jpg

After first coat...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild185.jpg

After final coat...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild187.jpg

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild188.jpg

This was right after I sprayed the valve cover, I'll have to wait a few hours to see how the wrinkle turns out. Once it's cured I'm going to sand the paint off the raised parts of the valve cover to give it a nice machined aluminum look...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild190.jpg

All the parts I need to start assembling the motor have been ordered. I hope to have them within the next couple weeks. My goal now is to have the motor swapped and broken in before the first midnight cruise.

BMe30
04-07-2012, 07:29 PM
Awesome!

Bullet Ride
04-08-2012, 08:30 AM
I went out this morning to check on my wrinkle...

Oh how sweet the wrinkle is...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild197.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild198.jpg

Things are starting to come together, I can't wait to start assembling this thing...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild195.jpg

supernaught
04-10-2012, 08:58 PM
I'm loving this thread man, the progress is great.

I wanted to ask if you had planned on honing the block or not, and reusing the rings? I did a quick search through the thread and didn't see anything about these things.

I'm working on my stroker and can't decide to go for new rings, or oversize with custom pistons and rings. I guess it will depend on how the bores measure out. I don't want the extra expense of pistons if the cylinders aren't egged.

Bullet Ride
04-11-2012, 08:32 AM
I'm loving this thread man, the progress is great.

I wanted to ask if you had planned on honing the block or not, and reusing the rings? I did a quick search through the thread and didn't see anything about these things.

I'm working on my stroker and can't decide to go for new rings, or oversize with custom pistons and rings. I guess it will depend on how the bores measure out. I don't want the extra expense of pistons if the cylinders aren't egged.

I know, the cost of a set of oversized pistons increases the cost of the project substantially... at that point you might as well get a set of custom pistons for a couple hundred bucks more.

I'd say you should use new rings at a bare minimum. Depending on how the bores and the cross hatch look I've heard of some people getting away with just putting in new rings. I asked the machine shop to deglaze my bores. They pretty much just quickly run through one of those spring loaded 3 stone tools or a flex hone brush to remove any light scuffing and freshen up the cross hatch.

InfiniteDice
04-11-2012, 10:13 AM
Every single m20 I've pulled apart the bores were amazing, with hatching still visible. The only thing that the bottom ends usually need are bearings, you might as well get new rings also new bearings would be good - just make sure you get the right style/size.

Bullet Ride
04-11-2012, 10:21 PM
Small update

This arrived in the mail yesterday...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild200.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild201.jpg

Building...and yes I used Jenga blocks to prop up the board while I was inserting the components with the long leads. Then I put that piece of Styrofoam from a ground beef package on top to hold the components in place while I flipped the board over. Then I soldered and trimmed the leads. A good bit of precision engineering really...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild202.jpg

Between last night and this evening I got the kit built, I just need to get some vacuum line for the map sensor, load the firmware and maps and then (hopefully) fire up the car

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild210.jpg

I also buffed the valve cover today, I'm happy with the way it turned out...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild204.jpg

My mom would probably tell me I need to iron my valve cover...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild206.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild209.jpg

Woofer
04-11-2012, 10:33 PM
Nice! I really like the way the valve cover came out in red. Good work.

craz azn
04-11-2012, 11:00 PM
That cam cover looks awesome!

DIY
04-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Awesome! keep it up! what kit is that?

El Gato Liso
04-12-2012, 01:43 AM
ah man...the paint went all crinkled on that valve cover...that sucks!

gonna repaint it?

Bullet Ride
04-12-2012, 08:37 AM
Awesome! keep it up! what kit is that?

Bosch 55 pin DIYPNP kit from diyautotune.com

ah man...the paint went all crinkled on that valve cover...that sucks!

gonna repaint it?

No way man, it took me forever to put each one of those wrinkles on there...

InfiniteDice
04-12-2012, 09:52 AM
So you bought the pnp ms kit.... nice I want that as well, do you get the tunes and stuff with that (do you get all the same things as the pre-built unit?)

Bullet Ride
04-12-2012, 11:13 AM
So you bought the pnp ms kit.... nice I want that as well, do you get the tunes and stuff with that (do you get all the same things as the pre-built unit?)

The MSPNP is a different product than the DIYPNP. The MSPNP runs off of the MegaSquirtPNP B8793 ECU while the DIYPNP uses the Microsquirt module. Since the MSPNP is a true PNP kit it comes with the maps pre-loaded as well as on a CD. This kit doesn't come with the maps preloaded (because I have to build it) or on a CD however they have them here on their website with the application guide
http://www.diyautotune.com/diypnp/apps/b55/usdm-bmw-325-8792-m20b25-mt.html

Bullet Ride
04-13-2012, 10:39 AM
Car started up first try last night on the DIYPNP kit which was nice. Only problem is that the WB O2 wasn't reading in the tuning software so I'll have to double check the wiring for that, and I still need to get a variable TPS. But it starts, idles and drives so I'm in good shape *th-up*

BMe30
04-13-2012, 10:53 AM
*rockout*

Cant wait to see the dyno sheet

Bullet Ride
04-13-2012, 11:12 AM
*rockout*

Cant wait to see the dyno sheet

For the stock motor? :rolleyes:

BMe30
04-13-2012, 12:39 PM
For the stock motor? :rolleyes:

Thought you had the built motor turned over.....

Bullet Ride
04-13-2012, 02:28 PM
Thought you had the built motor turned over.....

lol that'd be nice! I'm still waiting for parts. You will definitely see some assembly pictures when the time comes *th-up*

I still need to figure out what I want to do for the exhaust... I'm thinking y-pipe to 3" with a cat, resonator and muffler 4 sections connected by 3 v-band clamps for easy removal.

BMe30
04-13-2012, 03:28 PM
lol that'd be nice! I'm still waiting for parts. You will definitely see some assembly pictures when the time comes *th-up*

I still need to figure out what I want to do for the exhaust... I'm thinking y-pipe to 3" with a cat, resonator and muffler 4 sections connected by 3 v-band clamps for easy removal.

That should sound awesome. You should hear mine.

karmatose
04-13-2012, 03:56 PM
Headers of your choosing to x-pipe to glasspacks (instead of a cat) to Stebro catback would be my choice.

Bullet Ride
04-13-2012, 04:39 PM
Headers of your choosing to x-pipe to glasspacks (instead of a cat) to Stebro catback would be my choice.

Car still needs to pass emissions so I'm going with a high flow cat. And I'm going with single pipe to reduce weight.

Bullet Ride
04-19-2012, 09:11 AM
Unfortunately there isn't much to update on this project. Just a few small things.

Firstly, I am going to be picking up the parts I need to start assembling the motor from Han Solo next weekend.

Secondly, last weekend I went to balance the pistons and when I weighed them they were all within 1 gram of each other so I didn't even bother touching them. I still need to balance the rods, hopefully that will be a bit more exciting.

Thirdly, I was thinking about the adjustable cam gear yesterday and how I would go about making adjustments. All the after-market gears have a degree scale etched into them, but I don't have the tools to do that. I thought about just printing a scale that I could just laminate and glue on and use with the existing timing line on the gear, yeah kind of ghetto but it would work. Then I thought about how pretty much all mechanical timing adjustments rely on the accuracy of the eye of the person making the adjustment. I figured it’d be nice if there was a quick, easy, and above all fool proof way to make timing adjustments. I came up with this concept…

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/gear3.jpg

At this point you might be wondering what those extra holes are for. Looking at the timing gear I figured that the manufacturing tolerance of the gear was at least as good as (or better) than the accuracy of the human eye so why not use the physical geometry of the gear to dictate the timing adjustment. Obviously when I go to machine the gear I will verify if my assumption was acceptable or not. This picture will give you a better idea of what is going on…

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/gear4.jpg

As you can see, my idea was to use the spokes of the timing gear to adjust timing. The holes in the plate will be reamed to 6mm to have a nice snug fit for a 6mm dowel pin. That way I will be able to insert a dowel pin into a hole, loosen the screws around the outside and rotate the gear until the dowel pin contacts the spoke. One spoke is used to set the orientation of the gear back to stock timing and the other spokes can advance or retard the timing 1 degree per spoke. So this layout gives me +/- 5 degrees of timing adjustment, however the holes could be revised to give any combination of advance and retard. Hopefully it works!

That’s all for now folks!

DIY
04-19-2012, 10:09 AM
I like the way you think sir *th-up*

supernaught
04-20-2012, 12:17 PM
I like that idea, very interesting. How important is balance on that gear? would it be too confusing to alternate the hole pairs in a star pattern to balance it? Maybe its not necessary?

Bullet Ride
04-20-2012, 12:36 PM
I like that idea, very interesting. How important is balance on that gear? would it be too confusing to alternate the hole pairs in a star pattern to balance it? Maybe its not necessary?

Someone else brought up the issue of balance on another forum. Technically the plate will be out of balance, but practically, since the largest variance in hole location from side to side is only +/- 3 degrees, and it's on a short radius, and the amount of material being removed is pretty small relative to the overall weight of the plate the imbalance is negligible. I used solidworks to check the centre of gravity of the part and it shifted off of the rotational axis by 0.006mm which is so little that it might as well be 0.

It is a valid concern though and it was definitely worth verifying.

BMe30
04-21-2012, 07:03 AM
Great idea for the gear adjustment!

Bullet Ride
04-27-2012, 09:17 PM
Update time:

Much to my excitement I came home from work today to find a big ol' pile of parts in the garage...

This was sitting on the work bench...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild211.jpg

Ask an oriental man to say slick and it'll sound like....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild217.jpg

That's a Schrick looking cam...
(p.s. I've got plenty of oriental friends so I feel like I can make that joke lol)

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild218.jpg

Next up is the #becauseracecar part. I ordered the 2.7 scraper because it's stroke is close to the 2.8 crank. I'll need to adjust the clearances a bit so it won't rub

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild228.jpg


And the rest of the internals, seals, hardware, etc...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild232.jpg

And yes you saw correctly, all those bits were sitting in front of a stack of new Toyo R888s which I got a wicked deal on...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild222.jpg

And not directly related to the engine build, but still important...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild229.jpg

My current tank has a hole rotted on the top left side somewhere because when it's more than half full a quick left will leave the cabin with the smell of spilt gas. I figured if I'm going to be dropping the exhaust and drive shaft to swap the motor it will be as good a time as any to swap the tank out...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild230.jpg

And to finish off the update, I'm almost done making the adjustable cam gear. I just need to drill and tap the holes around the outside and then separate the gear into two pieces...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild213.jpg

I'm going to try and get the head assembled this weekend and then finish up the cam gear on Monday so I can work on setting the timing and checking the valve to piston clearance next week.

BMe30
04-27-2012, 09:56 PM
Insane!

Gonna be a great all around e30!

Bullet Ride
04-27-2012, 10:43 PM
Insane!

Gonna be a great all around e30!

Except for the shitty body on the car lol...

Bullet Ride
04-29-2012, 09:06 PM
So I spent the afternoon yesterday assembling the head:

Here is the workroom in the basement with parts scattered across the bench along with some of the mess left over from my brother who had just finished rebuilding his dirt bike motor...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild234.jpg

First order of business (after giving everything a final wash and blow off with the compressor) was the valve stem seals. This is probably common knowledge, but I found that an 11mm socket with a long extension made it extremely simple to install the valve seals. The socket will hold onto the seal, even when you turn it upside down, and exert force evenly around the outer edge...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild235.jpg

The long extension gives you a bit more room to push, and they push on pretty easily...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild236.jpg

Once all the valve seals were installed the springs had to be installed. This part of the assembly actually went a lot smoother than I had anticipated once I figured out a good way to do it. The tricky part is installing the keepers and having them stay in place as you decompress the valve springs. My method which seemed to work well was as follows. Once I had the spring compressed I'd put a drop of oil on the keeper grooves of the valve stem. Then I'd put a drop of oil on the grooves of each keeper. Using a pair of needle nose pliers I'd place the keeper on the bottom side of the valve stem. Now if you have enough oil there, the surface tension should be strong enough to hold it in place. Then I'd rotate the keeper I just installed to the top side of the valve stem. Then using the pliers again I'd install the second keeper. Once both keepers were installed I'd rotate them so that the split was vertical just so that gravity wouldn't be pulling on one more than the other.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild241.jpg

Then rather than releasing the cam lock on the spring compressor I'd decompress the spring by loosening the adjustable pad that's clamping against the valve head (red arrow). This allowed me to ensure that the keepers seated properly in the retainer before releasing the cam lock. I felt that this was a better method than just outright releasing the cam lock and hoping the keepers don't go shooting across the room.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild240.jpg

So after not too long the springs were installed...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild242.jpg

Then it was time to install the cam and rockers. As I mentioned back in the original post I'm using the IE HD rockers. Here is a comparison between OEM and the HD for those of you who aren't familiar with them...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild237.jpg

As you can see where the adjustable eccentric is has been beefed up substantially...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild238.jpg

A few more minutes gone by and voilà! My first assembled head....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild243.jpg

I spent today giving the old M20 it's last valve adjustment before it get's pulled so it's sounding nice and tight for auto-x next weekend. I also fiddled around with the turbo heap as it will be going on the road within a week!

supernaught
05-11-2012, 11:36 AM
any new updates?

Bullet Ride
05-11-2012, 04:02 PM
any new updates?

Not much to report. Other commitments ate up most of my spare time this week.
On Monday evening I threw a piston and rod in cyl #1 and bolted the head on with the old (already squished) head gasket. Then I got all the other bits put on so I could put the timing belt back on in order to time the camshaft and check valve to piston clearance. If all is well on that end then I'll pull the head back off and check the bearing clearances on the bottom end. I'm hoping to get that done this weekend so I can get the motor assembled next week.

I'll report back with pictures when I have them.

Denny
05-14-2012, 12:14 PM
Not much to report. Other commitments ate up most of my spare time this week.
On Monday evening I threw a piston and rod in cyl #1 and bolted the head on with the old (already squished) head gasket. Then I got all the other bits put on so I could put the timing belt back on in order to time the camshaft and check valve to piston clearance. If all is well on that end then I'll pull the head back off and check the bearing clearances on the bottom end. I'm hoping to get that done this weekend so I can get the motor assembled next week.

I'll report back with pictures when I have them.

Holy crap! Was I blind not to see this build!?!? Your build is coming along amazing man...:cool: you got the same laptop I got...and basement workshop ..LOL...

I willl be doing the same but with a M30 motor... project on the backburner..!!

Bullet Ride
05-14-2012, 01:56 PM
Holy crap! Was I blind not to see this build!?!? Your build is coming along amazing man...:cool: you got the same laptop I got...and basement workshop ..LOL...

I willl be doing the same but with a M30 motor... project on the backburner..!!

Thanks Denny. You missed it because you were too busy busting out your F/I build. 6 months is a pretty quick turn around time to design and build your own S/C set-up in your spare time.*th-up*. Comparatively if this build finishes when I want it to it will have taken me about 6 months.

The M30 is a torque beast. I'll be looking forward to seeing your build thread for that.

T.Dot_E30
05-14-2012, 02:54 PM
Awesome work on the head rebuild, looks good.

Bullet Ride
05-14-2012, 03:26 PM
Unfortunately this weekend turned out to be a bust in terms of progress on the build. Saturday I was tinkering with my other car and subsequently drove it on the road insured and plated for the first time that evening *par-t*

Sunday I went to time my cam, but part way into things realized that the indicator I was using only had 9mm of useful travel and my cam has over 10mm of lift. I tried taking measurements without doing a full revolution by rotating clockwise and counter clockwise over the top of the lobe, but due to backlash in the timing belt system I didn't like the variation in results I was getting. So I checked the princess auto website and saw that they have a cheap 1" travel indicator. I went to buy one and they were sold out. Bummer. Then I went to Canadian Tire and bought some plastigauge but by the time I got home I was bummed out from not getting the indicator I needed and feeling pretty lazy (it was Sunday after all) so I just decided to pack it in and go watch some touring car racing on speed.

Princess auto is supposed to be getting more in this week and they are supposed to call me when that happens. In the mean time I going to start doing some tuning on my other car (just paid for Tunerstudio registration so I can use VE.A.L.) and try to find a local shop that can hook me up with various lengths and bends of SS tubing for when I need to mock up my exhaust.

Bullet Ride
05-17-2012, 12:18 AM
Small update:

Princess Auto called me yesterday to tell me my indicator was in. I picked it up today after work and got the motor timed this evening...

I already had all the front bits put on from my unsuccessful timing attempt on the weekend...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild245.jpg

A shot of the DIY adjustable cam gear (still missing some hardware on the outer ring)...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild252.jpg

Instead of buying a fancy degree wheel, I printed a degree scale I found online and glued it to a heavy piece of cardboard. Couple that with a piece of wire attached to the block and a dial indicator and we're good to go!...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild257.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild255.jpg

Set the indicator up on the valve spring retainer and make sure that it's parallel to the valve stem...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild256.jpg

To time the cam I did the following:

- With the motor at TDC (lining up the mark on the timing cover with the O|T mark on the toothed wheel) set the wire indicator on the degree wheel to line up with the TDC mark on the degree wheel
- Rotate the motor clockwise while keeping an eye on the dial indicator. As the valve opens the needle on the indicator will turn counter-clockwise, when you reach max lift the needle will stop. At this point zero the dial on the indicator.
- Continue rotating the motor clockwise and stop when the dial is reading 0.020" past max lift. Write down the degree that the wire indicator is pointing to.
- Continue rotating the motor clockwise, as you approach max lift stop 0.020" before max lift. Write down the degree that the wire indicator is pointing to.
- Add the first number to the second number and divide it by two to get the degree value for your peak timing.

When I first checked the timing I measured it to be 112 degrees which is 2 degrees retarded. I expected the timing to be retarded because of the 0.5mm the block was shaved plus the head getting shaved as well. So since every degree the crank turns the cam gear turns 0.5 degrees I advanced the cam gear by 1 degree using my dowel pin adjustment method. Then I checked the timing again using the method described and it was on 110 degrees as it is supposed to be *th-up*.

After that I checked valve to piston clearance. In order to do that I turned the cam to max lift. Then I used a wood chisel (with some tape on it to prevent damaging any parts) and the rocker arm as a pivot to lift the rocker until the valve contacted the piston...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild258.jpg

Keeping an eye on the indicator I measured approximated 0.090" (2.28mm) clearance, I also had my valve lash set to zero so in reality I'll have an extra 0.25mm so overall approximately 2.5mm clearance which is adequate.

So now the next step is checking main and rod bearing clearances.

To be continued...

everlast
05-17-2012, 12:24 PM
This is a *really* informative thread. I'm learning a lot, keep it up!!

Denny
05-17-2012, 12:47 PM
Damn great info... I'm addicted to this build... :)

supernaught
05-17-2012, 03:21 PM
me too, you're basically laying out all the things I'll be doing in the next little while, getting my stroker together. Thanks for all the great pics.

Miris327i
05-18-2012, 06:10 AM
awesome build m8!! m20 stroker all the way :D

Bullet Ride
05-23-2012, 11:27 PM
Update:

I've got the bottom end internals assembled now.

Bare block...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild277.jpg

Bearing shells installed...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild278.jpg

Crank dropped in (after putting a dab of oil on each shell)...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild279.jpg

To check the bearing clearance cut a piece of plastigauge and lay it across the crank journal (make sure to wipe oil off the journal surface)....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild259.jpg

Then install the other half of the bearing into the shell. Apply a thin layer of oil to prevent the plastigauge from sticking to the shell. Then install the cap and torque the main bolts to spec. Then loosen the bolts off and remove the cap, all the while being careful not to rotate the crank at all. When you remove the cap you should see something like this...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild262.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild263.jpg

Compare the width of the flattened plastigauge to the scale that comes with the plastigauge to determine the bearing clearance. For a yellow classification bearing (which is what I have installed) the main bearing clearance is supposed to be 0.020-0.046mm. As you can see in the pictures above the plastigauge is wider than the 0.038mm bar, but not wider than the 0.025mm bar, therefore the clearance is between 0.025-0.038mm which is right on spec. Also make sure to keep an eye out for any taper in the width of the flattened strip indicating uneven wear of the bearing surface.

Then clean off the plastigauge from the bearing surfaces, oil up, reinstall, and re-torque the bearing cap. Do this for all 7 main bearings...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild280.jpg

To check the rod clearances I'd rotate the crank to the position I wanted then use the timing belt and a pair of vise grips to lock the crank in place because I found it hard to keep the crank and rod from rotating during the process of installing the rod and torquing the cap on...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild264.jpg

Repeat the same process for the plastigauge on the rod bearings...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild274.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild273.jpg

For the rod bearing the clearance for standard bearings is 0.030-0.070mm. As you can see above the plastigauge was wider than 0.051mm but narrower than 0.038mm so the clearance was between 0.038-0.051mm, once again right in spec.

Bullet Ride
05-23-2012, 11:27 PM
Before I installed the rods and pistons I checked the balance of the rods. I checked all the wrist pin ends using this set-up...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild275.jpg

And then I checked the overall weights. The rods were all pretty much within +/- 1 gram of each other so I didn't fuss at all with balancing them.

I also checked the piston ring gaps before I installed them. Just pop a ring into a bore and use a piston to square it up, then use a feeler gauge to measure the gap in the ring. My ring gaps were right on the outer limit of the tolerance because after being de-glazed my bore diameters are on the outer limit of the tolerance.

Installing the pistons is straight forward. Install the rings making sure the gaps are properly separated. Use a piston ring compressor to compress the rings leaving a bit of the skirt exposed so you can sit the piston in the bore...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild281.jpg

Tap the piston in until it pops out of the ring compressor...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild282.jpg

Then turn the block over, push the piston until the bearing shell seats on the journal, apply a dab of oil to the journal, install the rod cap and bearing, and finally torque to spec. Repeat 5 more times and your're done...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild283.jpg

That's all for now!

Bullet Ride
05-26-2012, 10:45 PM
So thanks to a member on another forum pointing out that I checked my valve to piston clearance at max lift when I should have done it at TDC... which I knew but for some reason had a brain fart and did it at max lift...I double checked the valve to piston clearance again yesterday. I used some clay this time and found that the exhaust side is ok, but on the intake side I only have a whopping 0.5mm or so which is far from enough and seems like far too little for Schrick to not specify that the 284 cam requires deeper valve reliefs. I'm going to double check the cam timing again tomorrow just to make sure that the cam gear didn't slip or anything causing the timing to advance. And if the VTP clearance is still too little I'll be pulling the bottom end apart so I can machine some larger reliefs for the intake valves.

One step forward... two steps back... but it's better than revving a fresh motor for the first time and hammering the valves!

Bullet Ride
05-30-2012, 11:08 PM
Progress update: Things are back on track...

So as I mentioned, I checked my valve to piston clearance (the proper way) and found that my clearance on the intake valve was this much...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild288.jpg

Since that was not enough I took the bottom end apart so that I could machine the intake valve relief deeper on each piston. After scrounging around at work I found this nice dividing head with tilt adjustment tucked away in a crate of random tooling that was bought at an auction and never used. After cleaning it and lubing it I set it up on the mill...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild300.jpg

The tool I used to cut the valve relief was pretty ghetto as well. As you can see it was a simple boring head meant for fairly large diameters. Instead I just stuck the sharpened bar of HSS on an angle in the middle at approximately the proper radius and locked it down with the set screws in the tool. To set the angle and find the center of the pocket I just lined everything up as closely as I could by eye. I would mark each pocket with marker and take a light cut to check the set-up and make small tweaks as necessary. Here's a before and after picture...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild299.jpg

As you can see I didn't have the diameter set exactly to the relief diameter, but rather than having to brake the ghetto ass set-up on my cutting tool I opted to just clean up the edge with a rotary tool after the fact. Here's a couple pictures after I cleaned up that edge...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild290.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild292.jpg

So this evening I slapped the bottom end back together and checked my valve to piston clearance. I was happy to see this when I cut through the clay...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild295.jpg

The clearance is now ~1.8mm

That's all for now.

supernaught
05-31-2012, 08:00 AM
That head is a great tool! I've got to cut reliefs and that sure would be handy. I think I have a way though.

They should all be pretty close, but did/will you check balance again?

Bullet Ride
05-31-2012, 08:10 AM
That head is a great tool! I've got to cut reliefs and that sure would be handy. I think I have a way though.

They should all be pretty close, but did/will you check balance again?

Yes, I double checked the weights of all the pistons again and they were all still within +/- 1g of each other, which is expected because I took out the same amount of material from each piston.

supernaught
05-31-2012, 08:22 AM
good deal. I was just thinking in terms of lining things up by eye, I can see the process being the same for each piston though. Keep the progress rolling.

DIY
06-04-2012, 11:22 AM
dont forget to round the edges!

Bullet Ride
06-04-2012, 09:03 PM
Update: Not so much...

So on the weekend I went to start putting together the rest of the motor. After installing the front cover with new seals and a new gasket I move up to the water pump and as I'm installing the water pump bolts I notice that one of the bolts isn't snugging down, it won't hold any torque, so before I strip anything I take the water pump off to inspect the threads. I guess at some point in time the previous owner changed the water pump and in the process snapped a bolt head off (maybe even two because two of the three water pump bolts were newer and slightly longer) and in order to fix it they drilled out the old bolt and re-tapped the hole. This would have been fine had it been done correctly however the tap drill that was used was way oversize and it ended up leaving no meat for the tap to cut threads.

So that pretty much derailed me from making any more progress this past weekend. In order to properly remedy the issue, today I got an M8x1.25 helicoil and installed it...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild304.jpg

Things are now back on track until the next problem arises

Bullet Ride
06-06-2012, 11:16 PM
Quick update: Motor is mostly assembled.

I spent a couple hours this evening and assembled most of the motor. After getting the water pump and tensioner installed I went to install the head. Now I know this one has been beaten to death already, but just to show everyone the difference between the Victor Reinz and Goetze head gaskets:

The gasket on the motor is the Goetze and the one still in the plastic is the Victor Reinz. You can see that the sealing strip on the Goetze is much beefier than on the Victor Reinz


http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild309.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild308.jpg

After torquing the head on I installed the exhaust manifold studs and popped the valve cover on. Things are coming together....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild314.jpg

I also got news today that the RD headers I ordered are finally ready. They are only 7 weeks late... but better late then never right :).

That's all for now.
Cheers.

everlast
06-06-2012, 11:27 PM
secksee

Denny
06-06-2012, 11:40 PM
coming together nice :) that valve cover is very familiar to me..lol...

Cant wait to hear this engine fire..

supernaught
06-07-2012, 07:57 AM
damn that is sharp. trying to imagine some RD headers on there..

Bullet Ride
06-07-2012, 09:48 AM
trying to imagine some RD headers on there..

No kidding. Up until Monday things were looking pretty bleak, 7 weeks late, hadn't heard any news for weeks then all of a sudden they are ready lol. I'm hoping that they look spectacular.

Bullet Ride
06-09-2012, 09:53 PM
A quick update.

Yesterday I machined a simple adapter plate so that I can mount a variable TPS from an M52 to my M20 throttle body

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild317.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild315.jpg

I also cleaned up my intake manifold yesterday, and today I gave it a satin black rattle can paint job. I like how it turned out...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild320.jpg

Now all I need is some shiny headers... which apparently I won't be getting until early July...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild318.jpg

Woofer
06-10-2012, 03:27 AM
Yes! That's going to look so purtty in the engine bay lol!

Denny
06-10-2012, 08:21 AM
Bullet...your engine is ready to be dropped in http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_csxKdHS5Sko/TJ-R2SLt1WI/AAAAAAAAAoY/nZyr4GitM28/s1600/DAY_47+engine+resa+015.jpgnow!! lol...

Bullet Ride
06-10-2012, 07:18 PM
^^ LOL

Definitely a couple similarities between the two. Your block is red though... and my headers are going to look a bit more wild than those :P

Denny
06-10-2012, 07:24 PM
^^ LOL

Definitely a couple similarities between the two. Your block is red though... and my headers are going to look a bit more wild than those :P

My engine is hotter then yours sorry man... its true :cool: LOL joke for sure your headers are going to be a lot wilder and high quality...keep in mind what manifold is going to replace these very soon :)

Cant wait to see the startup vid for this crazy stroker engine*th-up*

Bullet Ride
06-21-2012, 01:58 PM
Unfortunately there hasn't been much happening with the build in the past couple weeks. I've been working out a couple issues with my other car so that I can drive that one while I do the swap. The past few days I've been looking into exhaust since I'm going to want a custom set-up to go with my RD headers. Right now I'm thinking I'd like to try and mock up the exhaust, tac it together, then get a friend to weld it up nice. So last night I took some measurements off the car and came up with a rough model of the stock exhaust (leaving out the x-pipe cat and resonator)...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/ex1.jpg

After doing some reading I've decided to go with a single 2.5" exhaust because it's light weight, simple, and because going any diameter larger than 2.5" would require a custom made merge collector. For the power the motor should be making 2.5" will be sufficient.

I drew up an exhaust using only 45" bends because those are readily available from any place that sells misc. exhaust tubing.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/ex2.jpg

I'm probably going to end up buying components from Vibrant since they are local and I've heard good things about their stuff. In the place of the stock mid section I'm going to put a 13" catalytic converter and a 12" resonator, and the muffler I'm thinking is a streetpower flat black 2.5" in dual 3" out (dimensions in the model reflect the dimensions of the muffler). It looks like I should be able to offset it just enough to have the dual tips centred in the valance cut out. If not then I'll just skew it on a slight angle to centre the tips. This is how the two look overlaid...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/ex3.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/ex4.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/ex5.jpg

I'm also planning on having the mid section connected by v-band clamps so it will be simple to remove it and install a test pipe for the track if I want to down the road.

I'm currently looking into pricing of the components and parts.

Cheers.

everlast
06-21-2012, 02:18 PM
Here's something I learned in doing my 3" exhaust.. If you can source some mandral bent 90* or a "J" pipe, get a pipe cutter from princess auto:

http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8243792/Exhaust/Exhaust-Pipe-Cut-Off-Tool

You can cut any amount of the curve to get any angle you want. For instance, if you just need a 25 degree bend, you cut off, say, two inches of the 90* curve which would give you the 25 degree angle.

I did my exhaust while on jackstands by eye-balling the amount to cut, tack it in place with three welds and repeat.

Now, I used mild, not stainless, so cutting stainless with the above cutter might not be an option. Once completed, I painted the whole exhaust in VHT high heat paint: it's held up perfectly though rarely sees rain.

One more thing: I used 3" header flanges to create removable sections. They're super cheap, like $10 for a pair, and the gaskets are available everywhere.. even Canadian Tire lol. I've reused the gaskets everytime, never tore one!

Bullet Ride
06-21-2012, 03:25 PM
Stainless is the plan. However once I cost things out I'm going to go to a couple exhaust shops, show them what it is I want and if I get a reasonable quote I'll just let a shop do it, that way they can custom mandrel bend pieces and reduce the number of welded joints.

everlast
06-21-2012, 03:35 PM
Would a cut off saw work? There is one at CT for $90 on sale all the time. I have it, never used it lol.

Bullet Ride
06-21-2012, 03:42 PM
I have a chop saw, an angle grinder with a cut off disc works too.

Bullet Ride
07-10-2012, 08:27 AM
Quick update:

Over the weekend I got my car converted over to the DIYPNP kit and did a little bit of tuning to get my fuel table half decent. Before I pull the motor I'll figure out what idle settings I'll need to get the car to idle at 2000rpm for the cam break in, that way when I go to start the new motor for the first time I won't have to sit there and hold the gas when I'll want to be looking at every inch of the motor for any leaks or other issues.

Last night I finally got around to fitting the crank scraper...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/2012-07-09223412.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/2012-07-09223422.jpg

It took a decent amount of grinding to get the scraper to clear the counter weights.

I also started making this yesterday at work...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/2012-07-09223541.jpg

It's going to be an adapter for an oil pressure gauge sender that keeps the stock dummy light, I just need to drill and tap into the side for the fitting, and machine some flats for a wrench on the end.

I'm planning to start the engine swap this weekend.

Bullet Ride
07-19-2012, 08:27 PM
Update:

I asked this guy for an update and his response was "Update? What Update?...."

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild342.jpg

Stay tuned.

El Gato Liso
07-20-2012, 08:57 AM
yaaaaa buddy!


we should make a giant compilation of e30 engine bay monster pics hahaha

SiR
07-20-2012, 09:45 AM
curious what you milled that adapter with?
just a drill press with a milling bit?

or you baller with a mill machine at home?

Bullet Ride
07-20-2012, 10:07 AM
curious what you milled that adapter with?
just a drill press with a milling bit?

or you baller with a mill machine at home?

I made it at work. Used a lathe to turn it and drill straight through. Then used a vertical mill to machine the flats for the wrench and drill into the side.

Unfortunately I ended up not using the adapter because I placed the side port in the wrong location. I had installed it and snugged it down before I marked the location, however I didn't compensate enough for the crush washer squish so when I installed it the side port ended up being too close to the block to install the sender.

I ended up drilling and tapping into the adapter for the oil cooler and installed the sender there. It actually ended up putting the sender in a nicer position. I'll post a picture of it later.

Bullet Ride
07-22-2012, 11:41 PM
Update: Many hours later....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild355.jpg

*par-t*

A couple other pictures...

A shot of the motor when it was ready to go in...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild350.jpg

A shot of when it first landed in its new home...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild352.jpg

Where I ended up installing the sender for the oil pressure gauge...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild327.jpg

And now a Macgyver tool story... I remember reading in the Bentley manual that I'd need a 30mm socket to remove the nut on the drive flange so that I could replace the seal. So I went out and bought one at lunch on Friday and machined it down a bit because I knew it needed to be thin walled. What I didn't realize was that it needed to be a deep socket. When I came home I went to see if it'd fit and it wasn't even close to being long enough. However I would be SOL this weekend if I couldn't make it work. I noticed that the part of the shaft that goes into the pilot bearing almost fit through the opening for the 1/2" drive on the socket so I used my rotary tool to grind the opening to allow the shaft to fit through. Then I ripped a couple flats on the bench grinder so I could get some grip with a big pipe wrench....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild346.jpg

A trick to hold the output flange is a piece of flat bar between the transmission mounts....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/enginerebuild357.jpg

All that's left is to put the exhaust back on, wire the oil pressure gauge, modify the wiring for the O2 (since it's now located in the mid-section of the exhaust), add fluids, and double check that everything is good and tight. I'm hoping to fire it up tomorrow night! If all goes well I'll be driving A LOT this week to get the motor broken in for MCII on Friday and Autoslalom on Sunday.

I also have to make a heat shield for the air filter, but that's not an immediate issue.

craz azn
07-23-2012, 02:23 PM
Drive it to my house, that will put a few KMs on it :P Good work dude!!

Bullet Ride
07-23-2012, 02:31 PM
Drive it to my house, that will put a few KMs on it :P Good work dude!!

I'll be at Bimmercruise autoslalom *th-up*

T.Dot_E30
07-23-2012, 03:54 PM
I'll be at Bimmercruise autoslalom *th-up*

lol, is that where Rudy's house is?
Pretty much right...

SiR
07-23-2012, 04:05 PM
oh nice you got access to those tools at work.

whose m5? nice

Bullet Ride
07-23-2012, 04:11 PM
lol, is that where Rudy's house is?
Pretty much right...

Pretty much

oh nice you got access to those tools at work.

whose m5? nice

The M5 is my old man's.

craz azn
07-23-2012, 04:28 PM
I'll be at Bimmercruise autoslalom *th-up*

lol, no no I meant as in KMs to break it in. I am assuming from the West end to here and back will put a good couple hundred kms easy

Bullet Ride
07-23-2012, 06:09 PM
lol, no no I meant as in KMs to break it in. I am assuming from the West end to here and back will put a good couple hundred kms easy

It definitely would. However I don't want to go too far from home though in case something were to happen. I'll probably just drive laps around the out skirts of the KW area and use the opportunity to check out some roads I haven't been down.

Bullet Ride
07-24-2012, 08:33 AM
So I went to put the exhaust on last night but the mid-section that came with the headers was a bit too short to meet up with the catback so that derailed me from potentially getting the car started... well I could start it with just straight pipes but I'd imagine my neighbours wouldn't appreciate that after a couple of minutes lol.

I'll have to pick up some bits tonight to join it up just temporarily while I do the break in. I probably wouldn't have started the car up last night anyway because by the time I relocated and re-wired the O2 sensor and wired in the oil pressure gauge it was late and I was tired.

lvan
07-24-2012, 10:21 AM
Amazing stuff! Since we are talking about drivetrains, I wonder what are you running on your Trek in the VERY first picture.

Bullet Ride
07-24-2012, 10:38 AM
Amazing stuff! Since we are talking about drivetrains, I wonder what are you running on your Trek in the VERY first picture.

That's my brother's bike. It's a 2010 Madone 5.1 so it's got a full Ultegra group set. I'm still riding my 2006 1500 with 105/Ultegra mix.

lvan
07-25-2012, 02:37 AM
Yeah Madones gotta come with good drivetrain. Too many toys!

Bullet Ride
07-25-2012, 10:35 PM
The M20 stroker breaths! I did a 50km hard break in and changed the oil. Although the cam seal seems to be leaking I'm pretty pumped that other than that the motor seems to be running well. I'll diagnose the leak further in the next couple days. I was going to drive it some more after the oil change but it started to rain and I haven't put my hood back on yet.

The tune is still rough but it's good enough to drive the car and it will progressively get better the more I drive. Initial impressions... more low end torque and although I haven't spooled it out yet it feels strong on the top end.

Videos will be coming, and if all goes well in the next few days I'll have it at Autoslalom on Sunday.

Denny
07-25-2012, 10:38 PM
The M20 stroker breaths! I did a 50km hard break in and changed the oil. Although the cam seal seems to be leaking I'm pretty pumped that other than that the motor seems to be running well. I'll diagnose the leak further in the next couple days. I was going to drive it some more after the oil change but it started to rain and I haven't put my hood back on yet.

The tune is still rough but it's good enough to drive the car and it will progressively get better the more I drive. Initial impressions... more low end torque and although I haven't spooled it out yet it feels strong on the top end.

Videos will be coming, and if all goes well in the next few days I'll have it at Autoslalom on Sunday.

yeah the cam seal leaking ...reminds me i got to change mine got the seal just need time.

Congrats on your stroker!! good job man am sure this engine is going to pull very nice...cant wait to see the vid!!*th-up**th-up* nothing beats low end power!

Bullet Ride
07-25-2012, 10:51 PM
yeah the cam seal leaking ...reminds me i got to change mine got the seal just need time.

Congrats on your stroker!! good job man am sure this engine is going to pull very nice...cant wait to see the vid!!*th-up**th-up* nothing beats low end power!

Thanks man. The car is way louder with the headers! Unfortunately there are some shitty leaks in the mid-section right now where I had to cobble some bits together with clamps to bridge the mid-section to the muffler. After the break in I'm going to get a proper exhaust installed.

Best part when I was out driving was I drove by a couple that were out in the country getting some engagement photos taken. I ripped it by them and as soon as the guy heard me open it up his head was on a swivel.

supernaught
07-26-2012, 08:25 AM
That's awesome. Congrats on getting there! Videos would make this thread improved.

Woofer
07-26-2012, 11:19 AM
Great work man. Hopefully u can bring Sunday!

Bullet Ride
07-31-2012, 11:20 AM
An update after a few hundred kms of driving, as well as running the autoslalom this past Sunday.... My tune is getting better but I still have to iron out some idle surging and cold start enrichment settings. In terms of driveability, the increased low end grunt that the car has now is addicting. Whenever I'm cruising along I find myself continually putting my foot into it just to feel the torque surge. I can also say that the car feels really strong on the top end now. Above 140 the car is a beast and will climb to 200 with much less effort than before.

Unfortunately I left my camera at my brothers place on the weekend and won't get it back until Friday, but Woofer has some video of the car at the autoslalom which he'll hopefully be uploading this week.

SiR
07-31-2012, 11:35 AM
car looked good out there! minus the rusty muffler ;)

Bullet Ride
07-31-2012, 11:41 AM
car looked good out there! minus the rusty muffler ;)

Yeah, that's gone once I'm done the break in (once I'm done running the high zinc break in additive). I'll be getting a single 2.5" exhaust with vibrant cat, resonator, and muffler.

Which car were you running? We obviously didn't chat... or did we? lol

El Gato Liso
07-31-2012, 02:52 PM
sounded like a true m20. made me really smile knowing this is my old m20!!!! AHHH YAAAA

2.8L is now the minimum for me and my bmw!!

glad to see this thing running! sounded absolutely awesome at WOT!!!

SiR
07-31-2012, 03:16 PM
we did not I dont think and I was just watching

Bullet Ride
08-15-2012, 07:17 PM
Unfortunately I don't have any good video footage of my car yet, but at the last auto-x some random guy recorded my car leaving the start box. At this point I still hadn't dialled in my idle settings so I had some idle surging going on. Above 3000rpm the Bavauto headers start to sing.

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UrWmXJdBdNs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Woofer's got another clip of my car on course which I'm hoping will have a little bit of sideways action lol, I'm just waiting for him to get it off his camera and upload it.

I'm getting my custom 2.5" exhaust done next week with vibrant cat, resonator, and muffler. I'll post up a couple clips when it's done.

Axxe
08-15-2012, 07:20 PM
OMG that frost heave right by the start!

Bullet Ride
08-15-2012, 07:35 PM
OMG that frost heave right by the start!

Yeah lol pretty bad eh... I couldn't launch out of the box because I'd bottom out I had to roll through it. That lot is getting pretty bad in some spots.

BMe30
08-15-2012, 07:45 PM
Saweeeeeeet!!

Rocket launch though!

Bullet Ride
08-22-2012, 09:10 AM
Shot a quick 4th gear pull before taking the car to the exhaust shop. I'll hopefully be picking it up from the shop tonight.

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/nul2YHyRNqQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

T.Dot_E30
08-22-2012, 09:43 AM
Why did the check light come on?
Exhaust seems quite from inside.

You'll be entering the solo1 this weekend at mosport right? I wanna hear this badboy

Bullet Ride
08-22-2012, 09:53 AM
Why did the check light come on?
Exhaust seems quite from inside.

You'll be entering the solo1 this weekend at mosport right? I wanna hear this badboy

CEL came on because I was going around a long bend and my washer fluid is on the low side. P-brake light flickers because I currently have no p-brake hardware installed so there's no weight on the handle and the switch on the handle is pretty sensitive.

That vid was with straight pipes in the mid-section and a stock cat back exhaust.

I'm definitely going to be at DDT on Sunday *rockout*

craz azn
08-22-2012, 10:37 AM
Sounds a lot like how my old car used to sound. NICE!!

cormier
08-22-2012, 11:23 AM
Wicked job on getting it going man-- can't wait to check it out on Sunday

Just curious -- you did a 50k hard break in -- you felt it went well? What oils did you use during /after break-in? Regular Dino oil or any additives or anything?

Great sound btw, will be awesome with a good exhaust

Denny
08-22-2012, 12:00 PM
SWEET :) sounds really good...looks like its pulls pretty strong*th-up*

Bullet Ride
08-22-2012, 12:48 PM
Wicked job on getting it going man-- can't wait to check it out on Sunday

Just curious -- you did a 50k hard break in -- you felt it went well? What oils did you use during /after break-in? Regular Dino oil or any additives or anything?

Great sound btw, will be awesome with a good exhaust

I'm using 10w40 dino oil with a brake in additive. I did 50km hard then changed oil. Still put dino oil in and the brake in additive. I've got about 2000km on the motor now. I might change over to synthetic before DDT this weekend because the motor has got to be broken in by now the way I've been driving it *angel* and I'd prefer not to stir up whatever is in the bottom of the pan while lapping.

cormier
08-22-2012, 12:54 PM
What additive? The red line stuff?

Bullet Ride
08-22-2012, 01:32 PM
What additive? The red line stuff?

I couldn't get that stuff locally. I used a product called AC Delco Engine Oil Supplement that a local car parts shop had. It says right on the bottle:

ACDelco Engine Oil Supplement is a multi-purpose additive concentrate designed to help eliminate lifter sticking, reduce valve train noise, reduce camshaft lobe scuffing, and reduce break-in wear.

And based on the research I did it has high enough levels of zinc phosphates.

But the redline or comp cams additive will work too. Royal purple, amsoil, and joe gibbs also sell a specially formulated brake in oils.

Bullet Ride
08-22-2012, 10:43 PM
Picked up my car this evening. I'm definitely happy with how the exhaust turned out. The shop I took it to did a really nice job fitting everything together. It's definitely louder now but not too loud when cruising, however if I open it up you can hear me from a mile away lol...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/325i/2012exhaust002.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/325i/2012exhaust004.jpg
http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/325i/2012exhaust003.jpg

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/oFxpxEOHSfs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

craz azn
08-22-2012, 11:21 PM
Wow, that sounds awesome dude!!! *mw**mw**mw*

BMe30
08-23-2012, 06:24 AM
I need a tissue....

There's a saying... Hp makes noise.. Noise doesnt make hp. And from that vid, thats some power under the hood! Great job on this entire project!

Can't wait to see some dyno numbers... And when you convert to itb's!

Bullet Ride
08-23-2012, 08:46 AM
Thanks guys, I appreciate it. It's been 9 months in the making and now it's time to enjoy it while I can before winter rolls in, then I'll start collecting parts for the ITB project.

See you guys on Sunday!

goldhawk
08-23-2012, 01:34 PM
Wow, looks really good. The muffler fits the body really well - what is it exactly?

Bullet Ride
08-23-2012, 01:54 PM
Wow, looks really good. The muffler fits the body really well - what is it exactly?

http://vibrantperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1022_1031_1109&products_id=51

cormier
08-27-2012, 09:00 AM
Ya -- your exhaust sounded dope on the DDT yesterday lol-- sounded more like an m50 than an m20!

craz azn
08-27-2012, 09:34 AM
Ya -- your exhaust sounded dope on the DDT yesterday lol-- sounded more like an m50 than an m20!

:puke: No waaaayyyyyyyyy dude, any M5x motor needs a ton of work to sound anything nearly as good as this!! *wiggle*

Bullet Ride
08-27-2012, 10:32 AM
Ya -- your exhaust sounded dope on the DDT yesterday lol-- sounded more like an m50 than an m20!

:puke: No waaaayyyyyyyyy dude, any M5x motor needs a ton of work to sound anything nearly as good as this!! *wiggle*

Either way. I appreciate the compliments guys *th-up*. A lot of people gave me props yesterday for the sound and how quick the car looked on the track, if it wasn't for that I'd be in a pretty shitty mood right now seeing as one of the engine mounts on the front subframe broke while I was lapping but I didn't really notice until I left the track to drive home.

The drive home was a bit of an adventure. A big thanks to Bruno and Ryan for helping me out and hanging with me on the drive home yesterday just in case something happened.

Now whose got a front subframe for me? *shiner*

Oh, and I'll scan my dyno sheet and post it when I get home this evening ;)

richie_s999
08-27-2012, 11:31 AM
I'm just working on pulling the motor from the 320, ill see how the subframe looks and let you know.

Car looked quick and sounded great yesterday, wish I had time for a ride !

Bullet Ride
08-28-2012, 08:47 AM
So those of you who were at Bimmercruise might have noticed that I had my car on the dyno. Here's the plot showing what it put down. I have the rev limiter in the tuning software set to 6600rpm right now however I haven't actually tested it, when I was on the dyno I was lifting around 6000rpm because I knew my peak power would be before then anyway. The car was getting a bit hot on the 2nd and 3rd runs which is probably why I lost some under the curve.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/Dyno08-26-12.jpg

And I roughly calculated what the rpm would be....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/Dyno208-26-12.jpg

Some actual dyno tuning would likely yield some gains and with a bit of work on the intake side of things 200whp seems achievable.

karmatose
08-28-2012, 09:06 AM
Thanks for posting your dyno sheets, man. It's nice to see some honest numbers after a build like this. Gives me a good idea of what I can expect when I tackle my build.

SiR
08-28-2012, 09:49 AM
that sounds a lot better than before. nice!

HavocSteve
08-28-2012, 11:05 AM
200 whp is almost in the grasp! Nice work man.

cormier
08-29-2012, 06:42 AM
Nice dyno dude! 200whp would be sweet.

Bullet Ride
08-29-2012, 09:28 AM
I made a mistake when converting the x-axis to rpm. I was thinking along the lines... well in 4th gear my tach is at this rpm at this speed. However the plot is based on the equation that relates hp and tq, so the lines are supposed to cross at 5252. I updated it, and is definitely more representative of the engine's performance.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/Dyno208-26-12-1.jpg

DR.ZED
09-03-2012, 04:13 PM
Oh hello again bottom end old friend?

Bullet Ride
09-04-2012, 08:15 AM
Oh hello again bottom end old friend?

That's what I'll say the next time I drive the car, I'm still working on getting the front subframe fixed. It's been over a week now, I miss my car *sad*

...will post pics of beefed up subframe though, should be ready in the next few days.

DR.ZED
09-04-2012, 04:30 PM
No... what I meant was... is this the motor I sold?

Bullet Ride
09-04-2012, 04:33 PM
No... what I meant was... is this the motor I sold?

LOL, I though you were making a torque joke... this motor was built from Rob's (El Gato Liso) old M20 that he pulled when he did his M50 swap. So unless you sold that motor to him it's not yours

Bullet Ride
06-09-2013, 07:52 PM
So I was at the max dyno day today, although most people didn't see my car run because I ran in the morning when only a few people had shown up. I wanted to see what my stroker would put down on a different dyno.

It's worth mentioning that earlier this year I had the timing belt off to do some work on the front of the motor and when I put it back on I retarded the cam timing by 4 degrees because based on my dyno results last year I felt as though it was a bit too advanced.

In order for you to get a scale of the numbers, there were a couple E46 M3s on the dyno today running in the 285whp range and a couple E39 M5s running in the 315whp range...

First run I ran the timing map I've been running all along, second run I tried adding some timing, third run I tried pulling some timing. Seems as though the timing map I had from the get go was pretty good.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/2013dyno_zps475d6e00.jpg

For reference here is last years dyno plot again...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/Dyno208-26-12-1.jpg

To get a sense of comparison between the shape of the power and torque curves with the advanced and retarded timing I plotted values from both graphs...

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/Dynocomparison_zpsd622df85.jpg

The magnitude of the numbers isn't really relevant since they are from two different dynos, but the shape is telling. The horsepower climbs better on the top end and doesn't drop off as drastically, the torque peak is shifted forward, the overall shape of the torque curve is a bit better and it also doesn't drop off as drastically on the top end.

I'm speculating that if I was on the same dyno that I ran on last year, the numbers would look more like this....

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss191/StevoM5/M20B28/Dynocomparison2_zps58a1b1fa.jpg

But that's just me doing some wishful speculating :rolleyes:

karmatose
06-10-2013, 03:48 PM
Thanks for sharing this. Your numbers look good.

I know that the dyno is an inexact science... But are you happy with your numbers? Do you think that it was worth what you have into it or do you wish that you had opted for more? Say punched it out a bit more or went with a hotter cam, etc.

Bullet Ride
06-10-2013, 04:31 PM
Considering that I'm still running a stock throttle body with virtually no head work (other than gasket matching the exhaust ports) I'm pretty satisfied with the numbers.

As for more... for what I have into it I don't think I could get much more. Boring it out would mean custom pistons and if I was going with custom pistons... well I could list a whole bunch of other things I'd probably do that would jack up the cost of the build 100%.

If I had to do it again would I do it differently? Probably, but that’s because I’ve already done it this way once, so I’d likely want to try something different the next time around.

When it comes to projects like the important thing is to establish from the get go what your goals are with regards to power, reliability, aesthetics, etc…, and then establish what you can realistically afford to spend in trying to achieve those goals. If you go back to my original post I laid out what my goals were for the project. I was able to achieve those goals (and the project cost me roughly what I thought it would end up costing) so for me it was worth it.