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View Full Version : Lookign to fix up a 1992 e34 M5


drenius
12-21-2011, 05:56 PM
I got a family member who is basically abandoning this e34, itís got a rebuild title, with but supposedly no structural damage or issues with engine, transmission, and no paperwork to go back on.

I took it to a mechanic who told me this after a pretty quick inspection:

Rear pads and brakes
Front pads
Lower control arm, passenger side front
Auxiliary fan, clutch fan
Windshield cracked
Has oil accumulating on engine, transmission, not a lot of drip though

Also needs electrical work on low beams (currently disconnected and donít work)

The car starts to overheat after driving in stop and go traffic.

Can anyone tell me how much the parts and work would be, I would really appreciate it. Dont want to see this beauty go to the junk yard!

KIRASIR
12-21-2011, 07:21 PM
Try this site to get a general idea of the prices for some of the parts:

http://parts.autopartsonlinecanada.com/parts/apocanada/parts.jsp?year=1992&make=BM&model=M5--002

Most of the work you can probably do yourself. Which part of the engine is the oil coming from?

Any pics of the car?

drenius
12-22-2011, 06:50 PM
The site is pretty good, its mostly OEM which are on the expensive end...which kind a make sence if i am going to be putting in parts in an M5 might as well make em the best!

Any tips how i would go about searching/finding a good bmw specialist in Newmarket area?

njansenv
12-22-2011, 07:21 PM
Isn't that the one that just sold on here? (that I missed out on? :) )

Eurostyle
12-22-2011, 09:11 PM
^^^ Sure looks like it!

drenius
12-22-2011, 10:04 PM
I think I got myself a real steal here too... drives really nice, needs some things, has very minimum rust, what does bother me the most is oil leaking, 3 days standing in garage I got 5 drops of oil on the cardboard, Looks like it's coming from the front of the engine...

InspClave
12-23-2011, 12:07 AM
You did well and are the envy of some of us here.

bmwm5lover
12-23-2011, 05:54 PM
I believe that car has a leaky headgasket. A few members and I were looking at it pretty closely at the bimmercruise this year.
Looked rough but with some work it could make a nice daily driver.

The overheating can be the clutch fan.

I hope you didn't pay more than 3 K for it so that you can have cash to throw at it. Most parts on a e34 M5 are double the price of parts for a regular BMW (ask me how I know).

Autopartsway.ca has some reasonable prices.

davericher20
12-24-2011, 01:35 PM
+1 for fan clutch

DIY
12-25-2011, 01:39 AM
With the things wrong, I suggest parking it for a while. Pull the engine if you can and "refresh it" (ie get new gaskets/check compression and maybe get it rebuilt), its got 200k+ maybe on it? And if its leakin and needs some suspension work too, your best bet is probably to try and do it all at once. That's always the ideal sonario, but 90% of the time you just want to drive it :P ... You'll waste a ton more time trying to fix everything with the engine in the car, and yes this will lead to a lot more money being spent on the little things ie vaccuume lines, fixing the wiring harness, shifter bushings etc but if you manage some self control and have a few funds already, you'll be singin in a few months

You have a gem to work on, so keep things simple and do it right the first time :)

drenius
12-26-2011, 01:58 PM
I payed $4900 for her, got some 15" bbs snows over chistmas weekend from an 1992 e34 touring. I want to get her to a bmw specielty shop preferably somewhere in the Newmarket, Aurora, Richmond Hill area. ( I sure as hell wont go to Open Road BMW) I will do a seperate thread about those scam artists.

I need an appraisal how much its going to run me to rebuild the engine, and get the car in top mechanical shape. Your guys are right about everything costing double because its an m5, so i want to find someone that wont be ripping me off (too much) and gets a quality job done from start to finish.

Somebody throw me a bone *smoke*

njansenv
12-26-2011, 02:14 PM
$4900 is a pretty good price for a running M5! That said, depending on your budget (and how much you want done in one go) it may be best to bring it to one of the specialists in the GTA.

The S38 is a unique animal - get the right people rebuilding it, but be warned that it will in all likelihood cost a lot more than what you paid for the car.

BigD
12-26-2011, 03:31 PM
I recommend Bill at Motex for the rebuild. He lives/works in Alliston but he will pick up and deliver the motor.

If not too many things need replacing and no extensive machining, just seals, bearings and maybe the oil pump, budget 3-4k but Bill will give you a clearer idea.

drenius
12-26-2011, 11:18 PM
What does the rebuild entail exactly, the engine/body has 276k on it, and from what i read the engine is good for 400k?

Would this mechanic Bill at Motex be able to do the rest of the repairs, I would want to do it all in one sitting, bring the car and order the parts, unless he can get the parts cheaper.

njansenv
12-26-2011, 11:29 PM
It's difficult to know how involved a rebuild will be until you tear it down. Well maintained examples can go for 400k. Sometimes the motor goes at 200k, or 300k - there are plenty of variables, including use of the car, maintenance et al.

N

BigD
12-27-2011, 12:13 PM
What does the rebuild entail exactly, the engine/body has 276k on it, and from what i read the engine is good for 400k?

The basic idea is to replace all wear components. Unless you had a major failure/problem, things like the block, crank, rods, pistons, head, cams should last "forever". Valves could but they will go sooner than other things, especially in these motors if it wasn't maintained well, including proper valve adjustment.

So having said that, a rebuild means complete disassembly, cleaning every component (removing carbon from pistons and valves etc etc), then putting everything together with new bearings, seals etc.

Realistically, the head and block will need to be decked, crank polished, block re-honed, some other machining. Things will get expensive if it turns out you need to replace some of the normally non-wear items like valves, pistons or even the head. The general vibe this car gives out is that it's neglected, so I would brace myself for the condition of the motor and its rebuild cost to reflect that.

Would this mechanic Bill at Motex be able to do the rest of the repairs, I would want to do it all in one sitting, bring the car and order the parts, unless he can get the parts cheaper.

I'm sure he can but I doubt he'd want to. He's an engine builder and machinist. And whoever does the repairs for you, it will be in your best interest to source the parts yourself at the best price you can find. The mechanic will have no vested interest in getting you a good deal on parts - he'll use (read: you'll pay for) the easiest source he can find.

njansenv
12-27-2011, 12:21 PM
Note that some mechanics will not use supplied parts, or won't guarantee their work when using supplied parts.

I'd argue (and perhaps it's semantics) that the above description falls under "refresh" or reseal and not rebuild.

BigD
12-27-2011, 12:44 PM
Note that some mechanics will not use supplied parts, or won't guarantee their work when using supplied parts.

Never heard of this and I've had two motors rebuilt. If you show up with a garbage bag full of parts, sure. But if everything is either OEM or known superior aftermarket, there's no reason for this.

I'd argue (and perhaps it's semantics) that the above description falls under "refresh" or reseal and not rebuild.

So what is a rebuild then? Forging new pistons by hand and cutting a new block out of a chunk of iron?

njansenv
12-27-2011, 01:46 PM
I've seen it a few times - never with engine rebuilds, but certainly with car maintenance items (brakes, suspension parts) that the owner has listed. A lot of shops count on the mark-up of the components.

Not interested in an online pissing contest - typically, I'd expect to need/plan to go one size up in piston size, and replace the valve seats and (at least) recut the valves. If you find the bores are good enough for just a hone and new rings then great. I just wouldn't count on it. In the (non-BMW) circles I've traveled, a re-ring, hone and bearings is not a "rebuild".

Pulling the motor apart, measuring cleaning and resealing is certainly much cheaper and easier. With any luck, you'll find that is sufficient on your motor, but once it's apart you may find things worse than you hope - hope for the best but plan for the worst.

DIY
12-27-2011, 03:03 PM
As much as all this sucks to hear, it will save you headaches and worrys if you ever plan to get it running right. If the cars just leakin oil and not burning it, replacing seals and some light machining should work just fine. But as stated you'll never know till its apart. If you can try to work on the other stuff while you wait for the engine (if you go that route)... Finding your own parts is always good imo as you know what's on your car, you get good brakes, susp parts etc, but sometimes you find a good guy who will do it right ... Or will actually follow your instructions :P ... If you got some air tools you should be able to tackle susp stuff no prob, really breaks are the next level up from changing your oil

drenius
12-27-2011, 04:00 PM
Sounds like i have a winter project on my hands! If everything works out i will have my dream beast of a car for spring time. The "rebuild" on the engine is probably a must, seeing as it had like 7 or 8 different owners in its 20 years of service. But what worries me, is the rebuild title of the car.
I am the kind of person who wants to see the bottom line. We all know that this is a toy first, and we have to pay for toys. But would you pay 12k for this toy? To most people it will be a very expensive (20 year old) mode of transportation, and possiably third a collecters item due to the rebuild title.

I want your opinon if this car is going to be worth 11-12k on the market once it is properly fixed up. My opinion is, it might not be.

Dont get me wrong, i want this baby all to myself, but stuff happens and sometimes we need to sell...

$4900 buy price
$1500 parts
$3000-4000 rebuild
$1000 miss.service

BigD
12-27-2011, 04:16 PM
Not interested in an online pissing contest - typically, I'd expect to need/plan to go one size up in piston size, and replace the valve seats and (at least) recut the valves. If you find the bores are good enough for just a hone and new rings then great. I just wouldn't count on it. In the (non-BMW) circles I've traveled, a re-ring, hone and bearings is not a "rebuild".

Pulling the motor apart, measuring cleaning and resealing is certainly much cheaper and easier. With any luck, you'll find that is sufficient on your motor, but once it's apart you may find things worse than you hope - hope for the best but plan for the worst.

Personal definitions aside, a rebuild is just that. You take the engine apart and put it back together to spec. In the best case, if an engine is new, it's just disassembly and reassembly. If it's in good shape, it's just a matter of cleaning it and resealing it. Some people doing a job on a budget will even reuse bearings if they are within spec.

So planning for the worst is fine, which is why I also said what are some things which will likely need to be done (especially since this car seems pretty neglected). But whether or not it's acceptable by your definition, a rebuild doesn't have to consist of anything beyond disassembly, checking components and reassembly. Anything beyond that is on a need basis (which is also a personal definition - my last rebuild didn't reuse anything but the head, cams, block and crank).

njansenv
12-27-2011, 06:57 PM
Do this project because you WANT to, or don't do it: you're unlikely to make money, and you'd do very well to break even. E34 M5's values are lower than they've ever been, with clean title cars in good shape slipping under 10k if you look hard enough.

I had seriously considered calling the seller to buy the car as a fun driver, but these cars can define money pit: especially if you're paying someone for the work. I'd check the valve clearances, do a compression and leak down check on the engine: if that checks out, then find out where the oil is leaking from and replace then necessary gaskets. Clean the car up, and enjoy it for what it is: a unique, great sounding driver. If you decide to part it out, you'll easily get your money back but won't make a ton of money for the amount of time it takes.

Restorations of this type are rarely something that make sense on the bottom line!



In response to BigD - I agree with your final definition of rebuild: "You take the engine apart and put it back together to spec." The problem to me is that many people will reseal a motor, throw bearings in it, "maybe" hone it to break the glaze and put new rings in, then call it "rebuilt"...often without measuring and checking anything, or putting new valve guides and seals in, or...
I (and nearly everyone in the hobby I know 'in person') would call that a refresh. Back on topic. ;)



Sounds like i have a winter project on my hands! If everything works out i will have my dream beast of a car for spring time. The "rebuild" on the engine is probably a must, seeing as it had like 7 or 8 different owners in its 20 years of service. But what worries me, is the rebuild title of the car.
I am the kind of person who wants to see the bottom line. We all know that this is a toy first, and we have to pay for toys. But would you pay 12k for this toy? To most people it will be a very expensive (20 year old) mode of transportation, and possiably third a collecters item due to the rebuild title.

I want your opinon if this car is going to be worth 11-12k on the market once it is properly fixed up. My opinion is, it might not be.

Dont get me wrong, i want this baby all to myself, but stuff happens and sometimes we need to sell...

$4900 buy price
$1500 parts
$3000-4000 rebuild
$1000 miss.service

DIY
12-28-2011, 01:16 AM
these cars can define money pit: especially if you're paying someone for the work. I'd check the valve clearances, do a compression and leak down check on the engine: if that checks out, then find out where the oil is leaking from and replace then necessary gaskets. Clean the car up, and enjoy it for what it is: a unique, great sounding driver. If you decide to part it out, you'll easily get your money back but won't make a ton of money for the amount of time it takes.

Restorations of this type are rarely something that make sense on the bottom line!

Agreed

You really have to look at ths as something you would like to keep, if its not a dream car of yours to keep, you either need to learn to wrench it yourself or keep saving... Might I add your not gonna pay the 12k to get it in order and sell, your gonna make your "beast of a dream car" have your way with her and then potentially sell it ... And who knows by that time it might be worth more...as you said toys cost money, but you will get some of it back!

DIY
12-28-2011, 07:19 PM
http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147443

Maybe this guy can give you some info, he's lookin to sell his m5 its a 1991 but he's done a bunch to it and might help as a guideline.. Its for 14k

TEUTONICFOOL
01-01-2012, 11:30 PM
WOW!!! no offense but i think u r way over your head right now. just because the engine is leaking a bit of oil does not necessary mean she needs a rebuild/refresh. u need to address the overheating problem first. after making sure she is not going to COOK herself to death, give her a Proper/Professional engine shampoo, run the engine & looking for leaks. could be as simple as a valve cover gasket or oil pressure switch. only then will u know what kind of fun/headache u r getting yourself into. rebuild/refresh an s38 is not something u take likely, easily triple whatever u paid for to buy the car in the first place.

sproule905
01-09-2012, 04:56 PM
I have a buddy who is a mechanic at Open Road.

PM me I can give you details. I had my M5 in there on Sat - sneaky, but he calibrated the pedal sensor and checked out some codes my reader cannot find.