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InfiniteDice
12-14-2011, 12:14 PM
I have a feeling that my release bearing/throwout bearing is not sliding on the splines very smoothly, when it gets cold the shifter is hard to actuate until it warms up... almost like there is a lag in the movement of that bearing. There is no noise, or shuddering, it works fine when warm.

Does anyone know that if I remove the cover plate off the trans bell housing should I be able to get a small paintbrush with some lube on it up onto the splines?

Figured I'd ask before trying.

If not... I wonder if drilling a 3/4" inspection hole in the bottom of the bell housing to lube it then putting a rubber plug in the hole after could be an option. I don't think it would hurt anything.

One thing for sure I'm not removing the whole transmission to lube a spline.

El Gato Liso
12-14-2011, 12:17 PM
the g260 doesnt have a detachable bell house. so you gotta pull that thing out completely.

either way the plate is very thing there is no way in hell you can get to that spline without 100% removal, and if you do you might as well put a nice new juicy bearing in there....something i should have done, 3 times...grrrrrr

sproule905
12-14-2011, 12:18 PM
if your release bearing goes you'll hear a lovely high pitched screech.

I believe the clutch will have to be removed. unless I am confusing this with the throw-out bearing.

InfiniteDice
12-14-2011, 12:25 PM
It's not bad I believe in the cold it is not sliding on the splines... it's sticking. I have a spare trans, I'll take a look at it and see.

It's not like I can't drive it... but the first few shifts every day I need to double pump the clutch to get the thing in gear.

El Gato Liso
12-14-2011, 12:36 PM
^^maybe its your clutch pedal not building up the pressure, check that too

T.Dot_E30
12-14-2011, 12:53 PM
How old is your brake fluid?

MaxBell
12-14-2011, 11:50 PM
How old is your brake fluid?

This.

Also: release bearing just easily slides around on the spines, I don't see how anything but a worn one could cause problems. Unless you're approaching 0 degrees calvin, I can't see it shrinking THAT much.

everlast
12-15-2011, 08:52 AM
0 degrees calvin

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQl_D6RDA3pL6aKTZF-k3y7-QhTyB7uaLB58hVySRBFK-ConI-lVQ

I'm interested in this also because my shifter is difficult to engage after I've released the clutch once. I have a spare bearing and transmission, but I'm not sure what the problem is.

MaxBell
12-15-2011, 04:24 PM
Some things to test. Is your pressure plate worn out? Could be not getting enough clearance to pull it back into 1st. Go coast at speed in neutral, with the clutch in, put it into 2nd, then immediately into first and let the clutch out. Does that make it easier?

Another thing I was thinking is (obviously) the synchros. Does it have a faint whining noise when you do get it into 1st?

Could it be a clutch stop that is set too high? Try taking that out and testing for any change.

When is the last time you changed the tranny fluid?

How old is the shift carrier bushing (and the rest of the shifter bushings for that matter) (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Shift_Bushings/E36-Shift_Bushings.htm)?

The final (and most likely) issues is worn dog rings and synchronizer rings. That's something that I'd leave to the pros though.

InfiniteDice
12-16-2011, 11:38 AM
Some things to test. Is your pressure plate worn out? Could be not getting enough clearance to pull it back into 1st. Go coast at speed in neutral, with the clutch in, put it into 2nd, then immediately into first and let the clutch out. Does that make it easier?

- YES it goes into 1st easier once it's been in another gear. I replaced the ball and the spring on the lever... I don't really see how that lever could wear out, I mean the last I seen it it had some shiny spots where it touches the release bearing and the ball. My concern is that perhaps when I installed the release bearing I didn't apply enough grease to the input shaft spline and it's not sliding.

Another thing I was thinking is (obviously) the synchros. Does it have a faint whining noise when you do get it into 1st?

- Sometimes when cold it has that 'going backwards' whine/chirping.

Could it be a clutch stop that is set too high? Try taking that out and testing for any change.

- No it usually shifts at just past the 1/2 down mark on the clutch travel.

When is the last time you changed the tranny fluid?

- New Amsoil gear oil 1 month ago. Brake fluid is 2 days old total flush 2x.

How old is the shift carrier bushing (and the rest of the shifter bushings for that matter) (http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/E36-Shift_Bushings/E36-Shift_Bushings.htm)?

1.5 years old along with a z3 2.8 shifter. all new shift linkage... it's a bit trickier than the stock shifter but I can tell a difference on a cold morning. Like something is sticking/not sliding.

The final (and most likely) issues is worn dog rings and synchronizer rings. That's something that I'd leave to the pros though.

At this point I wouldn't be worrying about it, it's not that big of a problem since it goes away after it's warm, it's more of an annoyance every morning in the winter.

Thanks for the ideas.

North
12-17-2011, 08:49 PM
Some things to test. Is your pressure plate worn out? Could be not getting enough clearance to pull it back into 1st. Go coast at speed in neutral, with the clutch in, put it into 2nd, then immediately into first and let the clutch out. Does that make it easier?

Another thing I was thinking is (obviously) the synchros. Does it have a faint whining noise when you do get it into 1st?



Both of these describe my g260 well. I feel like I'm going to choose to live with it and let it slowly die rather than be proactive though.

Ceeker
12-17-2011, 09:30 PM
I have a cabrio with an extremely stiff shifter. I am not entirely sure if your problem is similar but I crawled under the car and sprayed the crap out of the linkage a good few times and it has gradually loosened up. So If I am mistaken please correct me. But how does the shifter have anything to do with the release bearing. I thought that was clutch related?

I would change the gear box fluid to redline or purple. it will clear up syncro problems and problematic shifting in cold weather. the bmw gear fluid isn't very user friendly with cold climates.

BmW1819
12-19-2011, 08:28 PM
tranny is coming out :( no way of cleaning the spline :( when u install it don't use alot of lube cause dirt will collect and hang it up

Axxe
12-19-2011, 09:26 PM
Definitely not the release bearing, when it fails it makes noise when using the clutch pedal (whirring noise), if it gets stuck then the clutch pedal is extremely stiff or does not fully release, but that almost never happens. What kind of tranny fluid do you have in there? Try some nice synthetic atf.

MaxBell
12-19-2011, 11:25 PM
Definitely not the release bearing, when it fails it makes noise when using the clutch pedal (whirring noise), if it gets stuck then the clutch pedal is extremely stiff or does not fully release, but that almost never happens. What kind of tranny fluid do you have in there? Try some nice synthetic atf.

Yep. I pretty much broke it in half, and it made a VERY loud high-pitched squealing noise whenever the clutch was pushed in.

richie_s999
12-20-2011, 12:55 AM
Gear oil? Pretty sure that's not what is supposed to be in that tranny

Axxe
12-20-2011, 02:17 AM
- New Amsoil gear oil 1 month ago. Brake fluid is 2 days old total flush 2x..

Here is your problem. Gear oil = no no in the winter in these trannys. They are designed for ATF. Buy some redline D4 (2 quarts) or RP synchromax, and your problems will go away. FYI the release bearing (aka throwout) doesn't touch any sort of spline at all. It sits on a pipe that covers the input shaft. Also, if you used the wrong gear oil (with friction modifiers, will say "OK for use in limited slips") then you have to get it out of there asap. The additive makes the synchros much less effective, and causes them to do the opposite of what they are supposed to do (match speed between cone and taper on dog gear) which in turn accelerates their wear.

InfiniteDice
12-20-2011, 11:30 AM
There are different kinds. That tranny is not from that car originally and it's the version that uses gear oil. I checked. It has the green sticker. The Amsoil synthetic has excellent low temp properties... I just doubt it's the oil.

It may not be the release bearing, it could be something internal to the transmission. It has all new shift linkage as of 1.5 years ago, with the z3 shifter. I'll get under there and spray the hell out of it and see what happens.

I notice if I pump the clutch a few times it shifts into gear easy. Almost like the clutch is sticking or somehow isn't disengaging. The only thing that could prevent that is the clutch components... which are fine, or the release arm/bearing which is the only other moving parts. If I used the wrong spline lube I think it could be thickening up and essentially locking the release bearing to the spline in cold weather.

At this point it's a minor annoyance.

Axxe
12-20-2011, 01:27 PM
If you aren't going to listen to advice then don't ask for it. Does it or does it not have friction modifiers in it? And for the second time, it does not sit on a spline, it sits on a smooth shaft. Do you understand how much force is in the clutch, especially in the release bearing? The only reason to lubricate the shaft and pivots is to prevent squeaking. That's it.

The only thing in a transmission that is temperature sensitive is the synchros, which is because of the oil. Doubt all you want, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that you grabbed regular gear oil for LSD use.

The reason it gets better with pumping the clutch is you are in effect double clutching, and bringing the internals up to speed by moving the input shaft. If this goes away when it's warm it's the synchros, if it stays constant no matter the temperature it's air in the slave.

InfiniteDice
12-20-2011, 03:00 PM
Hey Axxe,

I listen to all advice, but I then process it. I'm still in the gathering and processing stage. :)

It's synthetic gear oil. On the Gear oil I think it says that it's okay for use with LSD differentials, I can double check later. So are you saying I need gear oil that's not good for LSD?

It's lazy getting into reverse even without the car running. I go to move the shifter into gear and it's bitchy, as in it doesn't want to go into gear. So I sometimes just jiggle the pedal up and down while I keep pressure on the shifter then it just slips in. I realize that it's a leveraged arm and should have sufficient force.

I have 6 litres of Amsoil ATF sitting around so I can use that but the transmission says use gear oil.

I believe it's this: http://www.oil-tech.com/long-life-gear-oil-75w-90.htm

I will try lubricating the shift linkage and see if that has any impact.

Axxe
12-20-2011, 07:55 PM
Yes, you need to use gear oil without friction modifiers, which means that it's not suitable for use in LSD without additional additives. Some gear oils don't specify either way, some say for use in gear boxes, hubs, etc. I found this out the hard way when I used some bulk shell rotrax gear oil I have and the transmission was pretty much un-shiftable until it warmed up. I'd recommend Redline 75-140 NS (make sure it says NS).

sproule905
12-21-2011, 08:21 AM
I would change the gear box fluid to redline or purple. it will clear up syncro problems and problematic shifting in cold weather. the bmw gear fluid isn't very user friendly with cold climates.

Ummmm...pretty sure the German's know cold weather start ups. But there are many aftermarket tranny oil with thinner additives to help reduce hard shifts during the winter months, such as RP and redline