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View Full Version : Why Ontario Car Insurance Is Canada's Most Expensive


noodles101
12-08-2011, 07:20 PM
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/2336/ontario-car-insurance-canadas-most-expensive

dble Trouble
12-08-2011, 08:02 PM
Because of the M1S postal code! LOL.

BMW_7
12-08-2011, 09:39 PM
Not surprised insurance companies losing $1.3 billion dollars in fraud AT ALL.

In other parts of Canada people pay $40/month or less for an average 5 year old car and a clean record.

In some states insurance deductibles are as low as $20,000, and you can choose a small no property damage limit. In California if you have more than 2 cars your 3rd car's insurance is transferable from the other 2 cars you own. In Wisconsin insurance is optional.. Yes, you drive a car without insurance.

Ontario insurance companies are still making record profits and gouging everyone, so why should they care they lose money for fraud? Someone riddle me this...

BMW_7
12-08-2011, 10:17 PM
Hmm.. wait I retract my statement on the fraud. I ran across this report:

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/en/autoinsurance/interim-report.pdf

Although, as noted above, we have heard anecdotal stories about fraud from
many individuals, we have also heard from others that claims of fraud have been
exaggerated by the insurance industry. In particular, skepticism has been
expressed regarding the dollar amounts that have been attributed to fraud by
industry spokespersons.
A figure of $1.3 billion has been used to describe the cost of auto insurance fraud
in Ontario for some time. We have attempted to understand the basis for that
calculation and have concluded that the $1.3 billion figure cannot be considered
a verifiable measure of the extent of fraud at this time.

This is like going to a dealer who gives you a credit report and tells you the price he gives you is the best, and you say, I want to try another dealer

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxsZSWR9ot8y-7ulUWWjJwXCRP1YYk9Fo-z8J8p9Zd8tD8GODeLhz6IXPmyQ

noodles101
12-09-2011, 04:44 AM
i wish my insurance was 40 bucks a month.

sproule905
12-09-2011, 09:36 AM
When I lived in Edmonton I was paying 68/month. It was 86/month on the 328' and now 113 on the M5.

You could also group auto insurance in with cell phone plans for Ontario and even all of Canada.

InfiniteDice
12-09-2011, 10:54 AM
Well for starters
1) you NEED to purchase insurance how convenient!
2) insurance prices are controlled by insurance companies, basically unregulated legalized robbery.
3) they stuff the insurance with tons of CRAP that you don't need (My life insurance covers all that crap already) And you can't remove it to save money.

Insurance is so BS it's not even funny anymore. You have a mandatory service that can essentially charge what it wants and discriminate based on statistics to no end.

SiR
12-09-2011, 12:19 PM
its all bs. there is no justification for our high rates. we are being taken to the cleaners.


claims and fraud is a much bigger problem in the states (ie: they are losing much more ) and have appropriate agencies to deal with it...yet they dont pay the rates we do.

its all bs.

Mystikal
12-09-2011, 01:07 PM
Because of the M1S postal code! LOL.

What an obscure reference. Asiancourt's got nothing on M1B!

T.Dot_E30
12-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Why can't there be a class action law suit against them for price fixing or something? I'm sure all the insurance companies are in it to drive up premiums.

LCD manufactures were recently fined millions.....same should happen to them.

dbworld4k
12-09-2011, 01:09 PM
Or try L6* for that matter fcplm

damameke
12-09-2011, 02:29 PM
I think the blame of rising rate should be directed at Financial Services Commission of Ontario(FSCO), this provincial agency regulates the insurance company and others and FSCO have been approving double digit increase very often...

and yes. Ontarian are paying alot on insurance, green energy and booze...

5style
12-14-2011, 07:29 PM
sigh!!!! its bs!

Axxe
12-14-2011, 08:14 PM
Or try L6* for that matter fcplm

Go brampton! Where the most minor collision at 2km/h in a parking lot causes severe whiplash *th-up*

drenius
12-21-2011, 04:00 PM
I just got myself a little holidays toy, a 1992 e34 M5 and wanted to know if i can get some kind of vintage old car classic insurance on it?

I called my insurance company BelAir Direct and they gave me $1800 a year liability. bastardos!

Anybody else got some 19 to 20 year old bimmers insured, please let me know.

careless7
12-21-2011, 04:15 PM
Go brampton! Where the most minor collision at 2km/h in a parking lot causes severe whiplash *th-up*

LOL, my cousin is an injury fraud investigator with a big insurance co. and that is basically all she does all day is disprove those BS claims from Brampton.

noodles101
12-21-2011, 07:43 PM
^^ ya especially when they get into those 'minor collisions' with 5 friends in the car LOL

dble Trouble
12-22-2011, 01:42 AM
What an obscure reference. Asiancourt's got nothing on M1B!

Pfft..........Malvern halfs the frequency of collisions in M1S! L6* has a case though for fraudulent claims, I'll give them that! LOL.

fcplm

VSanj
12-22-2011, 12:12 PM
Go brampton! Where the most minor collision at 2km/h in a parking lot causes severe whiplash *th-up*

"WHIPLASH is a HELL OF A injury" said in rick james voice!!

ericdalinda
12-22-2011, 03:23 PM
Its because of the 401..were talking about the most heavily used highway in North America! more cars go on that strip of Tarmac then the Los angeles freeway..

now couple that with an immigrant population that can hardly drive, times that with that same population trying to scam and voila! highest auto insurance rates in the country.

but do you think these insurance companies are making ridiculous bank? ask your body shop how much they charged your insurance company to fix a bumper and slap a coat of paint on there. thhen all of the middle men, lawyers, claims adjusters, underwriters, CEOs..... geeezee.

woofster
12-22-2011, 04:16 PM
Everyone knows it's because of L3R 0Y5. :P

But seriously, our rates are pretty high but we have such highly dense areas all over the place. There are major traffic jams not just in the city core but in the outlying suburbs as well! The sheer volume of cars combined with the distances that most people have to commute for work simply make the odds of getting into an accident that much higher than in other provinces.

T.Dot_E30
12-22-2011, 05:14 PM
Pfft..........Malvern halfs the frequency of collisions in M1S! L6* has a case though for fraudulent claims, I'll give them that! LOL.

fcplm

Yea but you have a greater chance of being shot! (Stereotype)
Haha not sure if that effects auto premiums thou, probably life insurance more so.

Steve30
12-22-2011, 05:24 PM
I beg to differ. Asiancourt is a battle zone once you leave your driveway lol. I have a clean record and I pay 315/month.. can't wait til I'm 25!

What an obscure reference. Asiancourt's got nothing on M1B!

paddyhong
12-24-2011, 01:37 AM
My Civic costs 1700 a year under my dad's name.

One of my friends that came from Saskatchewan was paying 12000 a year due to getting careless/reckless/no insurance that he got in Ontario. Goes back to Saskatchewan, pays roughly 1000 a year. Drives back with Sask. plates, ownership, insurance.

Some examples as to why Ontario insurance is so expensive:

1. Not government operated and owned.. As stated above, in Sask., it's dirt cheap and I believe is run by the government. I know BC is for sure.

2. Corruption.. And you thought China was bad where money is everything and anything. Canada is probably just as bad.

3. Immigrant drivers.. Did you know that in China, if you're going straight on a main road and someone turns right out of a side street and you hit them, YOU are at fault! Want to see how people actually drive in India? Go watch IRT - Deadliest Roads first episode. And I have to give this example out. One of my uncles is so bad at driving, I would see at least 3 new fender benders every time we'd come out for family dinners and I'd say that's about every 2-3 months. He used to get them fixed. He's since given up but still drives.

4. They hand out drivers licenses at MTO.. So, one of my friends goes to Oshawa to get her G2 exam. First time, she screwed up so whatever. Second time, examiner was being extremely sexist. Passed some dude like the above example and refused to pass her because she was gonna run over some imaginary pedestrian. And as an example of #2, I have had one friend pay the examinor and he gave him a pass.

How can anything go right when the people who actually decide who drives on the road are biased and/or corrupt? They are the ones to blame first.

p@dDy

dcramer
12-24-2011, 11:46 AM
Pet peeve of mine is all of the non-canadian driving instructors in Brampton, teaching other new canadians how to drive. I live in Orangeville, they all bring their noobs up here to drive on a highway. Not uncommon to have to pass them on the right going up or down Hwy 10 they refuse to move over to the right as faster traffic approaches. Apparently the notion of actually reading the drivers manual is lost on them.

paddyhong
12-24-2011, 02:58 PM
Pet peeve of mine is all of the non-canadian driving instructors in Brampton, teaching other new canadians how to drive. I live in Orangeville, they all bring their noobs up here to drive on a highway. Not uncommon to have to pass them on the right going up or down Hwy 10 they refuse to move over to the right as faster traffic approaches. Apparently the notion of actually reading the drivers manual is lost on them.

Most instructors can not drive well either. The blind leading the blind.

p@dDy

noodles101
12-24-2011, 04:20 PM
lol ya thats why they banned instructors sitting in the back seats..LOL apparently threy were telling them wat to do in different language during the road test LOL

paddyhong
12-25-2011, 01:58 AM
lol ya thats why they banned instructors sitting in the back seats..lol apparently threy were telling them wat to do in different language during the road test lol

rofl!

Robb
12-25-2011, 11:52 PM
All these new immigrants are at fault. Ontario has the most....
Seems like they get their drivers licence from a crackerjack box, cant drive, follow rules properly, and take advantage of anything and everything, causing prices of everything to go up and chaos for others who were born in this country.
Also, the fraud in Ontario runs rampid because people don't seem to have morals or care for anything except the dollar bill.
All they want is the latest and the greatest and they will lie, cheat and steal and take advantage of everyone to get it !

I'm starting to really get sick and tired of the over-multiculturalism of Ontario !
Rob Ford is right, Ontario cant handle any more new immigration !

fcplm
/rant

5style
12-28-2011, 12:12 AM
All these new immigrants are at fault. Ontario has the most....
Seems like they get their drivers licence from a crackerjack box, cant drive, follow rules properly, and take advantage of anything and everything, causing prices of everything to go up and chaos for others who were born in this country.
Also, the fraud in Ontario runs rampid because people don't seem to have morals or care for anything except the dollar bill.
All they want is the latest and the greatest and they will lie, cheat and steal and take advantage of everyone to get it !

I'm starting to really get sick and tired of the over-multiculturalism of Ontario !
Rob Ford is right, Ontario cant handle any more new immigration !

fcplm
/rant


Rob Ford is a moron, secondly there are tons of refugees at border control daily, ask my cousin, a border control agent. They come for free money, thats what the reputation of our country is overseas, especially in poverty stricken lands. Thanks dumbass politicians.

noodles101
12-28-2011, 12:27 AM
we should stop taking refugees and only take immigrants with proper degrees/education that will actually contribute to our economy.

ericdalinda
01-03-2012, 04:37 AM
we should stop taking refugees and only take immigrants with proper degrees/education that will actually contribute to our economy.

Yea we do that, Doctors, lawyers, surgeons.

they end up working for companies like Beck and airport Taxi

propr'one
01-03-2012, 08:31 PM
what the **** are you people talking about? Immigrants are to blame for insurance rates? Do you people ever read the shit you write?

paddyhong
01-04-2012, 04:52 AM
Yea we do that, Doctors, lawyers, surgeons.

they end up working for companies like Beck and airport Taxi

That's because they have to get re-certified. Which takes most often than not, takes years.

And working in a field not related to their major, for example taxi company, fast food joints and the like, applies to not only immigrants but Canadian citizens as well.

Whoever posted that comment is hugely mistaken and is very misinformed.

Edit: the comment directly above is for the person stating that we should filter immigrants.

p@dDy

hockeyfan27
01-06-2012, 05:32 PM
Well for starters
1) you NEED to purchase insurance how convenient!
2) insurance prices are controlled by insurance companies, basically unregulated legalized robbery.
3) they stuff the insurance with tons of CRAP that you don't need (My life insurance covers all that crap already) And you can't remove it to save money.

Insurance is so BS it's not even funny anymore. You have a mandatory service that can essentially charge what it wants and discriminate based on statistics to no end.

:huh?:

Dice, for the love of pete, please consider doing a google search before you post all kinds of stuff that is baseless and misleading. The only shred of truth to what you said is that auto insurance is mandatory.
See damameke's comment (reposted below for convenience) about who regulates rates.
Life insurance may overlap a couple of coverages - not most - and only covers you, not your passengers or family. Life insurance does NOT cover your rehabilitative care from a motor vehicle accident.

The statistics they 'discriminate' with is probably the fairest practice possible. Is it better to just average out the money paid out in claims and divide by the number of policies/cars? A 40 yr old driver with no claims pays the same as a 17yr old kid? A person with a DUI pays the same as a driver with no convictions? Is the rating system used now discrimination or logic?

Alternatively, How would you suggest doing it?

I think the blame of rising rate should be directed at Financial Services Commission of Ontario(FSCO), this provincial agency regulates the insurance company and others and FSCO have been approving double digit increase very often...


If anyone thinks that a government run insurance system is the answer, can you think of an example or two of a public service that when taken over by government became cheaper?

dcramer
01-06-2012, 05:54 PM
Actually you don't even have to have a license, or insurance to drive on the roads. Do a search for freeman. Also look up the definition of "drive" in blacks law dictionary. Most people do not drive on the roads, they travel on the roads.

However ..... and this is the big problem with all of the above. If you don't have insurance and you do get in an accident you will have to pay for the damages out of your own pocket.

FWIW, I have a license and insurance so clearly I am just adding fire to the flames here.

paddyhong
01-06-2012, 09:00 PM
If anyone thinks that a government run insurance system is the answer, can you think of an example or two of a public service that when taken over by government became cheaper?

I'm quite sure it won't happen but I think why people are saying that is because other provinces that have government run insurance have much lower rates than Ontario?

One example is one friend from Edmonton. He was paying 11k in Ontario but he had gotten the following tickets:

-no insurance
-DUI
-careless
-speeding

He goes back to Edmonton and is currently paying 1100. Since you are the resident insurance expert, can you please explain why there's a staggering 90% difference? And does your drivers abstract carry to other provinces?

KIRASIR
01-07-2012, 01:20 AM
I'm quite sure it won't happen but I think why people are saying that is because other provinces that have government run insurance have much lower rates than Ontario?

One example is one friend from Edmonton. He was paying 11k in Ontario but he had gotten the following tickets:

-no insurance
-DUI
-careless
-speeding

He goes back to Edmonton and is currently paying 1100. Since you are the resident insurance expert, can you please explain why there's a staggering 90% difference? And does your drivers abstract carry to other provinces?

To add to this, my friends/family in Quebec are all currently paying from $40-$70 a month for their cars (most of them live in the middle of Montreal). *uzi*

noodles101
01-07-2012, 01:27 AM
ontarios insurance is not going to get governed by the government anytime soon.

like someone said in this thread that ontario's claim is 5 times higher then other provinces due to fraud and etc. lol.

my gfs dad is paying less then 100 dollars/month on his porsche panamera... this is ridic.

i guess gotta pay what u gotta pay to live in ontario :D

InfiniteDice
01-07-2012, 02:37 AM
All I know is that in Quebec I was paying a hell of a lot less. Drivers in Quebec do just fine... I'm sure Quebec is just as corrupt as Ontario. How is it that insurance companies can exist and do well there?

I think a big part of the problem is the amerification of Ontario. Slowly we are becoming petty like them, with that 'sue for profit' mentality. Over- charging jobs at shops because they know insurance pays up to a certain amount. The shit list goes on and on.

Oh my neck hurts from that 5mph impact... Get over it. I was hit by a pizza delivery car on a 10 speed when I was 16... I went over the car and landed on the sidewalk. I just walked the bent up bike home and fixed it. Had a few stones in my back, that I plucked out. Did I sue that pizza girl for 2 million? lol

I think we need to limit damages awarded in court, I mean If I die with my life insurance I get 3x my income. So I die... my family gets that. If I hit someone with my car do they get more than what I'd get from insurance if I die? For just a broken leg or whiplash?

Why are the insurance companies pushing this 2 million liability? In Quebec the liability portion was covered when you register your car every year... yes it costs $120 or something... but my insurance was $370 a year. In Ontario I'm paying around $1200. Plus in Quebec you have one plate, and never need to buy stickers.

Then to top all this crap off... I called my Insurance company, and asked... Why do I pay the same for my 24 year old car that my buddy pays for his new car. And we both have the same driving record.

Answer: Oh well it's more expensive to fix the older cars...

I'm like... no it's not. I can fix my bumper for $50 his would cost about $1000. And I've never filed a claim, and I dont' even have collision.

Answer: It doesn't really matter what car you have.

So I say... Then it will be the same if I drive a Ferarri?

Answer: No! it would be more.

(At this point I'm confused and decide to give up.)

Then they put my rates up every year. What ever happened to lowering rates every year you've been a good driver with no claims?

How's that for a rant? I don't need to GOOGLE crap. I have loads of experience dealing with this garbage.

paddyhong
01-07-2012, 02:43 AM
ontarios insurance is not going to get governed by the government anytime soon.

like someone said in this thread that ontario's claim is 5 times higher then other provinces due to fraud and etc. lol.

my gfs dad is paying less then 100 dollars/month on his porsche panamera... this is ridic.

i guess gotta pay what u gotta pay to live in ontario :D

I don't think it'll ever be. It's just too lucrative for the insurance companies and the government.

Fraud isn't much of an excuse. Are you trying to say that other provinces for have fraud? Possibly not to our extent due to the fact that we have more people.

Doesn't mean we have to pay 90% on top of what other provinces pay. That's not justifiable. I want to hear it from the expert though as I might be getting insurance on my own so I don't get gouged for 6.5k a year compared to 1.7k, which I'm paying now. I also will be moving out of the city. Rates are dramatically lower. Also another fun fact, insurance is cheaper in markham than it is in Toronto. We're talking about people who live north and south of steeles and drive similar distance to work and what not.

Edit: I'd like to change the above statement a bit. I missed the part about Ontario having 5 times the amount of claims other provinces have due to fraud, etc. I accept that but why isn't insurance 5 times that of other provinces? Why is it up to ten times and in extreme cases, beyond that or companies simply won't insure you.

Also, if companies wanted to stop fraud, they would of done something about it now. Just another reason to ass rape consumers.

hockeyfan27, I'd just like to know what logical reasoning insurance companies have given that justify 10 times the rate of other provinces.

noodles101
01-07-2012, 04:18 AM
^^^go with meloche monnex if ur in university, really good rates ^^^^

INFAMOU$
01-07-2012, 04:22 AM
My 2003 M5 is 700 for the year full coverage in Dubai :) life is good.

paddyhong
01-07-2012, 05:07 AM
^^^go with meloche monnex if ur in university, really good rates ^^^^

Unfortunately, that's not my situation. But this springs up another section of this topic. People are now going to great lengths to get cheaper insurance or just to get their car insured.

Anyone notice the huge surge in Quebec plates in the GTA?

Anyone notice there's much less GTR32's on the road? To my knowledge, only a handful of companies are insuring GTR's and they're charging up the arse. The rest of the owners are going to bc, Quebec and sask. Yes, there are drawbacks but to save a couple K that could go towards other things, it's very enticing.

hockeyfan27
01-09-2012, 06:20 PM
I'm quite sure it won't happen but I think why people are saying that is because other provinces that have government run insurance have much lower rates than Ontario?

One example is one friend from Edmonton. He was paying 11k in Ontario but he had gotten the following tickets:

-no insurance
-DUI
-careless
-speeding

He goes back to Edmonton and is currently paying 1100. Since you are the resident insurance expert, can you please explain why there's a staggering 90% difference? And does your drivers abstract carry to other provinces?

I can explain the difference of premium no better then you can explain your friends poor judgement. I could make a few guesses but I don't conduct auto insurance business in Alberta and I try to only speak to the things I possess knowledge of.

I don't believe there is a reciprocal reporting agreement for convictions across all provinces. There are a few states and provinces that have an agreement with Ontario, Quebec does I think, but off hand I don't know them all.

To add to this, my friends/family in Quebec are all currently paying from $40-$70 a month for their cars (most of them live in the middle of Montreal). *uzi*

The injury settlement system in Quebec is often referred to as "the meat chart" as it assigns a settlement value based on the injured portion of the person, much like a butcher assigns value to cuts of meat depending on its location on the carcass. It doesn't matter what you do for a living, the settlement paid for losing an arm is the same if you are a doctor or a crossing guard.

I don't think it'll ever be. It's just too lucrative for the insurance companies and the government.

Fraud isn't much of an excuse. Are you trying to say that other provinces for have fraud? Possibly not to our extent due to the fact that we have more people.

Doesn't mean we have to pay 90% on top of what other provinces pay. That's not justifiable. I want to hear it from the expert though as I might be getting insurance on my own so I don't get gouged for 6.5k a year compared to 1.7k, which I'm paying now. I also will be moving out of the city. Rates are dramatically lower. Also another fun fact, insurance is cheaper in markham than it is in Toronto. We're talking about people who live north and south of steeles and drive similar distance to work and what not.

Edit: I'd like to change the above statement a bit. I missed the part about Ontario having 5 times the amount of claims other provinces have due to fraud, etc. I accept that but why isn't insurance 5 times that of other provinces? Why is it up to ten times and in extreme cases, beyond that or companies simply won't insure you.

Also, if companies wanted to stop fraud, they would of done something about it now. Just another reason to ass rape consumers.

hockeyfan27, I'd just like to know what logical reasoning insurance companies have given that justify 10 times the rate of other provinces.

Paddyhong, I frequently struggle with how much to say on here. Often people just need to vent because they just got their renewal and they are upset. There is no point arguing the ins and outs of the insurance game, they don't want answers, they are just mad - I appreciate that and I try to give people space to vent while pointing out common misconceptions or false facts. Knowledge is power, especially when you feel helpless. (which is often the case with insurance) I'm not here looking for a fight or to take the side of the companies. I'll happily answer what questions I can, I'll even offer an unsolicited opinion if I think it contributes to the thread.

I do my best to present only the facts, devoid of my personal opinion. I'm not a company guy. I work with my brother, for my dad's brokerage, not an insurance company. I don't have all the answers.

The facts I have don't support what you are saying. I'm curious as to what source you are basing your comment, "It's just too lucrative for the insurance companies and the government." is this based on the revenues of all Canadian insurers or only those that operate in Ontario? All lines of business or only auto insurance premiums? And how are you gauging the benefits to the government? Solely by the contribution of accident benefit premiums to the health system or through the taxes and fees paid to the government and again, is this Canada wide or Ontario only? I hear this often, but never see the numbers to support it. Can you post your source please?

In the last year or so, 2 major international insurance companies, Axa and ING both sold their Canadian insurance operations and pulled out of Canada. If it was so profitable, why leave when FSCO is approving increases left right and centre?

We pay more in Ontario because Ontario's accident benefit coverage is one of the most generous in North America. As such, it suffers higher amounts of abuse and fraud. There are laws that guide how quickly benefits must be paid, limiting the companies ability to investigate fraud. In a sense the companies hands are tied. It is often said that our (ON accident benefit) system is essentially a blank cheque written to any rehabilitation clinic. I just came across a case where a therapist charged an insurance company for 10 visits. The client only visited the clinic once, and received no treatment, just a consultation, which he paid for out of his own pocket. We reported the discrepancy to the prior insurance company. The Clinic insisted they had provided the services until they were handed a sworn statement by the 'client' at which point they apologized for their "clerical error" and issued a refund.

Ask your doctor for a note, they usually charge $25, tell them it's for an insurance claim, it's $125. Do a search in any car forum for "collision repair shop" and see how many times you come across, "if it's covered under insurance, go here...". People will suggest the most expensive shop and offer helpful tips like, "tell them to paint the whole car, say it won't match" etc etc... Everyone wants more when they know an insurance company is paying. Then next year everyone wonders why rates went up. The industry is trying to stop the hemorrhaging. The insurance Act was modified last September based on costly lobbying by the insurance co's, done mostly to define different levels of soft tissue injury and limiting the amount payable without justification.

Simply, we pay more because we have more claims and they cost more.

I am not saying our system is perfect, it is broken. Unfortunately, when the lock is broken, there is always some jerk who will take whatever they can and that is on your dime.

My 2003 M5 is 700 for the year full coverage in Dubai :) life is good. How does housing cost compare?

lucad2
01-09-2012, 06:59 PM
My m3 is 6500 a year with a clean driving record.

I got a stunt driving waiting to go to court so after that I can expect 12k a year.

Steve30
01-09-2012, 07:03 PM
That's crazy.. I'm 3700/year with a clean record and I thought that was expensive. The car is only on the road for like 5 months so its not too bad.

My m3 is 6500 a year with a clean driving record.

I got a stunt driving waiting to go to court so after that I can expect 12k a year.

paddyhong
01-09-2012, 10:23 PM
Regarding it being too lucrative for insurance companies and the government, it's the vicious cycle of making profit and paying taxes. The company jacks up the prices so they can have more write offs to expenses, company owned toys and property and what not. Although I know that the amount that they can write off is limited, if memory serves me correctly, the more you make, the more you can write off. About the government making money, one word, taxes. It's all conjecture, but I can see at least a little truth behind it.

About ING and Axa pulling out of the Canadian market, not too sure why Axa pulled the plug but ING is Dutch owned, which is part of Europe. Europe is suffering from a major economic crisis right now and I think it's expected for them to pull out of some international ventures. The fact that they not only pulled out from the Canadian insurance sector but also the American banking sector (ING Direct) by selling their company to Capital One, supports the fact yet are trying protect their long term business goal. This maybe only part of the truth but I believe this is one of the major things that caused them to pull out amongst others.

sproule905
01-10-2012, 08:37 AM
I'm quite sure it won't happen but I think why people are saying that is because other provinces that have government run insurance have much lower rates than Ontario?

One example is one friend from Edmonton. He was paying 11k in Ontario but he had gotten the following tickets:

-no insurance
-DUI
-careless
-speeding

He goes back to Edmonton and is currently paying 1100. Since you are the resident insurance expert, can you please explain why there's a staggering 90% difference? And does your drivers abstract carry to other provinces?

Pretty sure your friend did not tell the AB insurance he had convictions in ON. And the insurance company did not do their due diligence on background checking.

sproule905
01-10-2012, 08:39 AM
My m3 is 6500 a year with a clean driving record.

I got a stunt driving waiting to go to court so after that I can expect 12k a year.

Is it worth it for you to own and drive an M3? Seems like you are more about the image of being seen in an M3, yet you enjoy paying 6500 a year+ gas+maintenance.

sproule905
01-10-2012, 08:43 AM
we should stop taking refugees and only take immigrants with proper degrees/education that will actually contribute to our economy.

Dude, out of line. Totally out of line.

I've been in many cabs to and from the airport for business and met many nice cabbies who always asked what my profession was. When we chatted, they either had their MBA, phd, pmp etc. they were waiting on proper certification that would be recognized by our Canadian standards.

I think our government does an ok job, but I agree we need to stop letting anyone and everyone in. Or at least have them properly trained and their certifications recognized before they land foot.

hockeyfan27
01-10-2012, 10:26 AM
This was just forwarded to me this morning:

http://www.ilstv.com/high-injury-claims-costs-make-auto-insurance-in-ontario-priciest-in-canada-says-auditor-general/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DailyNewsletter


some excerpts:
Ontarians are paying more for auto insurance than their counterparts across the country, says Jim McCarter, the province’s Auditor General, and it’s due – in part – to the cost of accident injury claims. In his 2011 Annual Report, McCarter found that the average cost of automobile accident injury claims in Ontario is $56,000 – about five times higher than the average injury claim in other provinces.


“Auto insurance fraud is a big problem in Ontario,” said a statement from the Office of the Auditor General of Ontario. “Industry estimates put its value at 10% to 15% of all premiums paid in Ontario during 2010—as much as $1.3 billion. Unlike many other jurisdictions in North America, Ontario does not have significant measures in place to combat fraud and was awaiting the recommendations of a government-appointed task force expected in the fall of 2012.”

• The total cost of auto insurance injury claims in Ontario rose by 150% between 2005 and 2010, even though the actual number of injury claims rose only 30% over the same period.

• FSCO offers a mediation service for people who disagree with settlement offers from insurers, but since about half of all injury claims end up in mediation, the service is so backlogged that dispute resolution takes 10 to 12 months rather than the legislated 60 days.


I'm looking forward to the year end reports which detail the premiums paid in, claims paid out, and investment income generated.

paddyhong
01-10-2012, 01:19 PM
“Auto insurance fraud is a big problem in Ontario,” said a statement from the Office of the Auditor General of Ontario. “Industry estimates put its value at 10% to 15% of all premiums paid in Ontario during 2010—as much as $1.3 billion. Unlike many other jurisdictions in North America, Ontario does not have significant measures in place to combat fraud and was awaiting the recommendations of a government-appointed task force expected in the fall of 2012.”

First of all, thank you for sharing that information with all of us.

Secondly, I've read somewhere online regarding that 1.3 billion dollar figure. I think it was on the max forums but nonetheless, it stated that the figure was vastly exaggerated. I'm going to try to find that link.

Thirdly, you live and learn. People scamming insurance companies didn't start yesterday. And I'm quite sure that it start in 2005. :rolleyes: Also quite sure that insurance companies have caught on since time and just didn't care until a certain number of people started complaining.

hockeyfan27, I'm quite curious about the numbers as well. Hopefully, that'll clear some things up.

p@dDy

noodles101
01-10-2012, 01:37 PM
I agree we need to stop letting anyone and everyone in. Or at least have them properly trained and their certifications recognized before they land foot.

thats what i wanted to say ... but i said it in a not very nice way.

my parents immigrated from korea , and my dads electrical engineering degrees and certifications ( im not sure what they are, im a complete noob when it comes to engineering) all got recognized so he was lucky to land a same level job in the same field of specialty.

sproule905
01-10-2012, 02:28 PM
^^ he probably had them when they were grandfathered in.

This whole insurance thread is going sideways, but still a great read!

damameke
01-10-2012, 02:42 PM
Insurance business is like Casino business..the house always win.

It's like a cess pool.. you get some good shit and some bad shit..
bad shit cause insurance company money covered by the good shit
they only lose money when there is diarrhea.. which is seldom...

eventually bad shit pays with increase premium..so is good shit...

the house always win...

noodles101
01-10-2012, 02:46 PM
i donno why ppl still drive when their insurance premium is like 12grand a year. LOL

maybe cuz they can...

i got careless driving when i was 16 and didnt fight it, paid the fine, i was a secondary driver... my moms insurance never went up or anything.. wats up wit that?

and now im 21 and getting my own insurance.. i think the careless driving record is long gone from my record.

hockeyfan27
01-10-2012, 03:27 PM
Insurance business is like Casino business..the house always win.

It's like a cess pool.. you get some good shit and some bad shit..
bad shit cause insurance company money covered by the good shit
they only lose money when there is diarrhea.. which is seldom...

eventually bad shit pays with increase premium..so is good shit...

the house always win...

Insurance is more like a casino that frequently loses BUT they also operate a smoke shop (ie: investment income) as a side business. When they lose, the profits of the side business float the main operation.

i donno why ppl still drive when their insurance premium is like 12grand a year. LOL

maybe cuz they can...

i got careless driving when i was 16 and didnt fight it, paid the fine, i was a secondary driver... my moms insurance never went up or anything.. wats up wit that?

and now im 21 and getting my own insurance.. i think the careless driving record is long gone from my record.

Insurance companies have to pay a fee to the MTO every time they want to check your record. Your record isn't checked every year unless you are with a mid/high risk company.

Any conviction regardless of type: minor speeding or DUI, after 3 years it drops off you record.

damameke
01-10-2012, 03:40 PM
BUT they also operate a smoke shop (ie: investment income) as a side business. When they lose, the profits of the side business float the main operation.

Based on that. I think our rate will go up again as the investment
environment lately wasnt ideal for them to make money...

InfiniteDice
01-10-2012, 08:34 PM
If claims are costing 5x more in Ontario.. then they need to be limited to 5x less.

I don't care if you are a brain surgeon if you lose a hand it's 25,000. Get over it your hand is no more valuable than that of a bum. Putting a payout value on someone based on their economic value makes me sick, how twisted can this world get. We're not talking private insurance here.

This counter arguement against unrealistic insurance rates is just ridiculous to the point of absurdity. I'll take the Quebec butcher plan please and thank you, It's bad enough we get raped by the government, I don't need a two on one... :)

lucad2
01-10-2012, 10:05 PM
Is it worth it for you to own and drive an M3? Seems like you are more about the image of being seen in an M3, yet you enjoy paying 6500 a year+ gas+maintenance.

Well its insured for only for 6 months out of the year so really I pay 3250 plus 30$ a month in the winter for fire and theft.

To me its worth it.

HavocSteve
01-10-2012, 11:13 PM
Why does it matter what you pay?

If I want to pay for something that I enjoy, I'll pay whatever it costs. maXbimmer is full of bums it seems lately =\ upset because you pay 6500$ a year for your M3 lol.

lucad2
01-10-2012, 11:53 PM
Why does it matter what you pay?

If I want to pay for something that I enjoy, I'll pay whatever it costs. maXbimmer is full of bums it seems lately =\ upset because you pay 6500$ a year for your M3 lol.

Exactly. I've been working since I was 12 years old just so I could buy a BMW. Finally in may, when I was 18 I had enough and was making enough to afford my dream car. I've now had the car for almost a year and I love it.

When I was in grade 12, 1 of my friends was killed on keele and rutherford being hit by a truck on the way to school, a month later 2 of my other friends were killed in a car accident. Life is too short, so enjoy every moment you can of it.

BMW_7
01-11-2012, 11:31 AM
Exactly. I've been working since I was 12 years old just so I could buy a BMW. Finally in may, when I was 18 I had enough and was making enough to afford my dream car. I've now had the car for almost a year and I love it.

When I was in grade 12, 1 of my friends was killed on keele and rutherford being hit by a truck on the way to school, a month later 2 of my other friends were killed in a car accident. Life is too short, so enjoy every moment you can of it.

Sure if you look at it this way. That way you can justify spending $10 for a liter of milk too.

But I look at it as paying the whole value of my car every year just so I can drive it, this is pure robbery. The whole excuse that high accident claims, and people taking advantage of the system is bs too. If I don't take advantage of the system I'm not going to pay more just like I'm not going to go out and pay a stranger's parking ticket.

hockeyfan27
01-11-2012, 11:37 AM
If claims are costing 5x more in Ontario.. then they need to be limited to 5x less.

I don't care if you are a brain surgeon if you lose a hand it's 25,000. Get over it your hand is no more valuable than that of a bum. Putting a payout value on someone based on their economic value makes me sick, how twisted can this world get. We're not talking private insurance here.

This counter arguement against unrealistic insurance rates is just ridiculous to the point of absurdity. I'll take the Quebec butcher plan please and thank you, It's bad enough we get raped by the government, I don't need a two on one... :)

Who was making a counter argument? The question was asked, "why are other provinces cheaper?" I was answering that. I'm not saying anything absurd, like companies are unregulated and set their own prices ;)

I would rather pay Quebec's auto insurance prices. However, if my hand was crushed in a car accident, I wouldn't enjoy paying for the rehab out of my own pocket. Maybe a surgeon can afford to, I can't.

You can't expect to have it both ways, it's either better coverage, or better price. I am entirely in agreement that we need a better balance between the two. I think the legislation last year was a step in the right direction, as was the introduction of the "uninsured vehicle project".

The fact that claims went up 30% but the cost went up 150% speaks to the need for the fraud task force which is in the works.

SiR
01-11-2012, 12:08 PM
Exactly. I've been working since I was 12 years old just so I could buy a BMW.

fcplm

what a crock. red flags always go up in my head when I read this kind of bs.

fraud is a bigger problem in the states by far yet they dont suffer for it. all smoke n mirrors so they can sneak that giant wang up your a55.

lucad2
01-11-2012, 01:43 PM
fcplm

what a crock. red flags always go up in my head when I read this kind of bs.

fraud is a bigger problem in the states by far yet they dont suffer for it. all smoke n mirrors so they can sneak that giant wang up your a55.

What BS? Yes at 12 years old you can get a paper route. Then when i was 14 I worked at a relatives restaurant and I've been there ever since. I also worked 2 jobs durning the summer for the past 2 years. I've loved cars my whole entire life. I knew I wanted a BMW from when my grandmother had a 318 back in the day. I saved every penny I could just so I could buy a car. So if you can explain the BS part about that? because i'd like to know

InfiniteDice
01-11-2012, 02:31 PM
Sorry hockeyfan, I'm just trying to argue the points, and some resentment and frustration comes out. I'm not targeting anyone... just the points in the conversation.

The problem is regulation. You NEED 1 million liability... You should have 2 million... Why? so they can keep elevating the prices paid out. So in a few years you'll need 3 million? You need all this coverage for missing work.... well what is unemployment or disability for?

Driving is a risk, living is a risk. People go to the hospital when they sneeze, or get the flu. The system is fat and broken. When I get sick I take care of myself ... blanket, gingerale, and a tylenol if needed. I don't rush out to the hospital so doctors can charge the system 1000 to look at me for 5 minutes.

If you can't work after an accident claim disability. Hopefully you have life insurance that covers injury resulting in a loss of function. This should be the responsibility of each person to have life insurance... If you must get damages from someone, it should be a set amount based on the injury and it's severity. Under no circumstances should it be over 200,000.

I also like how easy it is for insurance companies to discriminate, where if an employer did that they would be sued. All they need to do is quote some statistic somewhere and they can increase rates for blue people who have spiked hair.

Just an opinion.

sproule905
01-11-2012, 05:35 PM
Well its insured for only for 6 months out of the year so really I pay 3250 plus 30$ a month in the winter for fire and theft.

To me its worth it.

PLus where you live states the cost.....demographically. Which insurance companies use to their advantage, and that hurts.

To me, 6500, is a boat load, and for a 21 year old, seems it could be better spent on hookers and drugs. I have my 2nd dream car next to an e30 M3, but could never spend that much on insurance for an 8 year old car."... Even when you drive it alf the year. Hey, to each their own, and props to you for saving, but still.

Wo are you with?

dcramer
01-11-2012, 05:38 PM
A friend who is an insurance guy explained this to me. It is only because the gov't of Ontario changed the OHIP policies. If you fall at your house and you are injured OHIP will pay. If you have the same accident (outcome) in a car the insurance company pays. Until that changes we will pay. Interestingly enough he just bought an Mercedes and his insurance is half that of his honda civic.

lucad2
01-11-2012, 07:23 PM
PLus where you live states the cost.....demographically. Which insurance companies use to their advantage, and that hurts.

To me, 6500, is a boat load, and for a 21 year old, seems it could be better spent on hookers and drugs. I have my 2nd dream car next to an e30 M3, but could never spend that much on insurance for an 8 year old car."... Even when you drive it alf the year. Hey, to each their own, and props to you for saving, but still.

Wo are you with?

To me its worth it, Sometimes I spend my friday and saturday nights in the garage doing maintenance or detailing my car. Its just something I like doing. The way I see it is, its not like i'm living pay cheque to pay cheque, I have my investments and I feel that this was a way to reward myself. I don't spend too much on gas and maintenance since I don't drive it every day, I put about a tank of gas every 2 - 3 weeks.

I am currently with Td Insurance. Since I got insurence I got a bunch of different companies that are smaller and I never herd of such as a really good one for people under 21 called "Des jardin" or something like that. I'd like to give them a call but since I got my stunt driving back in august I'm not even going to bother. When I did get the quote for 6500 a year I was under the impression that it would go lower as the years went by but those plans for thrown in the trash.

SiR
01-12-2012, 10:34 AM
The way I see it is, its not like i'm living pay cheque to pay cheque, I have my investments and I feel that this was a way to reward myself. I don't spend too much on gas and maintenance since I don't drive it every day, I put about a tank of gas every 2 - 3 weeks.

this guy is a riot!

T.Dot_E30
01-12-2012, 10:53 AM
Put that 6500/yr towards your education......you sound like you need one. Unless of course you are in school and mommy and daddy pays for everything for you, then proceed as you were (no point arguing with your type)......

To me its worth it, Sometimes I spend my friday and saturday nights in the garage doing maintenance or detailing my car. Its just something I like doing. The way I see it is, its not like i'm living pay cheque to pay cheque, I have my investments and I feel that this was a way to reward myself. I don't spend too much on gas and maintenance since I don't drive it every day, I put about a tank of gas every 2 - 3 weeks.

SiR
01-12-2012, 11:29 AM
Unless of course you are in school and mommy and daddy pays for everything for you, then proceed as you were (no point arguing with your type)......I think its pretty obvious....

damameke
01-12-2012, 12:14 PM
He is not living pay cheque to pay cheque, he has his investments and he is rewarding himself...and he seldom drives his toy..and I bet he has his parent's blessings to own the M3

Enjoy the car...

HavocSteve
01-12-2012, 01:13 PM
Put that 6500/yr towards your education......you sound like you need one. Unless of course you are in school and mommy and daddy pays for everything for you, then proceed as you were (no point arguing with your type)......

Why do you write such things? Makes you look more stupid then him spending $6500 on his insurance. Who are you to tell him what to do in life?

Seems like some people are just jelly over car payments and insurance because some of you guys couldn't nor ever afford to spend that kind of money. Need to lay off his co%k and focus on yourself.

dcramer - I'm in the same vote as your friend. I was paying close to $240/mth for a 04 interpid that had just PL & PD. Now I own a new car that I need full jam insurance on and I'm paying only $143/mth lol. Kinda dumb if you ask me :huh?:

noodles101
01-12-2012, 01:30 PM
Put that 6500/yr towards your education......you sound like you need one. Unless of course you are in school and mommy and daddy pays for everything for you, then proceed as you were (no point arguing with your type)......

totally agreed.

Theres no way in hell he could've saved up money to buy an e46 m3, doesnt matter if he had a job since he was 12, it could be possible if he didnt go to middle school nor high school. lol.

You 'saving money' and having your parents pay for everything else, ( clothes, spending money, all your bills, etc ) ISNT really called saving money.

I know this because I've been on my own ever since grade 10 when i got a job as a lifeguard, i started to pay for my phone bill, clothes, gas, insurance, spending money.

Plus I had to defer my university for a year to work and save some spending money for university.

My guess is and I am probably right, unless your parents paid for all your necessities , you could not have saved up money to buy your e46 m3.

SiR
01-12-2012, 03:55 PM
one of the only times Ill agree with this guy^^

it just isnt happening I dont care how many papers you delivered or what other minimum wage job you got.

Its the same old story ive read since forever when I got into cars/forums(10+ yrs ago). And 99.99999% of the time its all bs lies. If you parents helped you out youd get more respect by admitting to it and appreciating it than making up bs stories about walking to the north pole from brampton to deliver meals to the homeless inuit when you were 12. But bro I gave my dad 2k from those jobs , ok so that means I paid for it....

And im sure the kid is fuming at the keyboard as he reads this, getting ready to type out some "you dont know me" , you guys suck type reply..

take a step back and realize most of us have seen this all before. Enjoy your car but dont think you are fooling anyone.

T.Dot_E30
01-12-2012, 04:35 PM
Why do you write such things? Makes you look more stupid then him spending $6500 on his insurance. Who are you to tell him what to do in life?


lol, keep going?

When your done, stop and think, it's the truth.

It's common sense, it makes no economic/financial sense unless this kid has a full time job making good money or a trust fund/ inheritance, which judging by his comments doesn't seem likely. Even then what are his priorities, continuing living at home with mommy and daddy? or did he save enough from his paper routes and restaurant job to live on his own too?

Jealous? Please, i'm not stupid enough to buy a 20k+ car (he probably paid much more a year ago)and spend 6500/yr on insurance and get a Stunt Driving Ticket.

I like the part where says he has investments too....

noodles101
01-12-2012, 04:39 PM
could've paid a down payment on a nice condo for that kind of money :)
now thats an investment

KIRASIR
01-12-2012, 05:06 PM
dcramer - I'm in the same vote as your friend. I was paying close to $240/mth for a 04 interpid that had just PL & PD. Now I own a new car that I need full jam insurance on and I'm paying only $143/mth lol. Kinda dumb if you ask me :huh?:

Same here. My 2006 Mazda 3 HB was ~125/mth, no collision, theft only. The 2011 328 full coverage now is ~75/mth - quite surprising.

sproule905
01-12-2012, 05:09 PM
^

As SIR stated earlier, I'm in agreence with you more and more now.... Is this a new you, Sean? Kudos, cause if I ever told my rents when I was living at home that I am planning on saving for an M3 they would advise me on either moving out, or buying my own place.

noodles101
01-12-2012, 05:41 PM
^^ haha thanks man lol we finally all agreed on something..ohh boy LOL*rockout*

I just don't like when people lie about things like this..lol

because I've experienced it first hand how hard saving money is when you are a teenager / student. I'm sure many people on this forum as well.

sproule905
01-12-2012, 05:44 PM
True say. My rents told me if I can afford a car and a streetbike, the i can afford to move out.... So I did.

paddyhong
01-12-2012, 06:30 PM
I don't care if you are a brain surgeon if you lose a hand it's 25,000. Get over it your hand is no more valuable than that of a bum. Putting a payout value on someone based on their economic value makes me sick, how twisted can this world get. We're not talking private insurance here.

Some surgeons/musicians actually have their hands insured on the side.

EDIT: it might be that surgeon that saves your life because he had peace of mind since his hands were insured and worrying about you more than his hands.

Interestingly enough he just bought an Mercedes and his insurance is half that of his honda civic.

Same thing happened to one of my friends as well. He was paying 450 per month for a protege and once he got his brand new TL at the time, his insurance went down to 260ish per month.

According to him, your insurance premium is calculated by what type of car, how many safety features it has, what theft deterrent it has, where you live, how many people drive that car and how many people get into accident with that car, among many other things. So for example my civic, has 2 airbags, a basic alarm system, M1H area, a shit ton of people own this car, a shit ton of people get into accidents in this car, coupled with my dad's insurance policy, it comes to 1700 a year. Insurance under my own name would mean triple that. My dad has 30+ years of driving experience but I also have 10 and I don't drive like I'm on the racetrack. Zero tickets in the last 3 years and I'm 25+. Don't understand why it's triple but whatever.

As a side note, I would be paying around the same rate (+/- $50) for a Integra GSR and Subaru STi.

p@dDy

HavocSteve
01-12-2012, 06:51 PM
lol, keep going?

When your done, stop and think, it's the truth.

It's common sense, it makes no economic/financial sense unless this kid has a full time job making good money or a trust fund/ inheritance, which judging by his comments doesn't seem likely. Even then what are his priorities, continuing living at home with mommy and daddy? or did he save enough from his paper routes and restaurant job to live on his own too?

Jealous? Please, i'm not stupid enough to buy a 20k+ car (he probably paid much more a year ago)and spend 6500/yr on insurance and get a Stunt Driving Ticket.

I like the part where says he has investments too....

I could care less about his lifestory. He owns one so be it. He pays what he pays. It's not hard nowadays to sign a quick 20grand loan from a bank and purchase a car. Could have done that? or saved and got a small loan. There's to many possibilities here to be pointing fingers and saying things you have ZERO knowing about. Like I said, it makes you look like a moron.

When I was 21, I was paying 360$/mth for a 04 neon that I first financed. that's around 4400$/year. I made it work. I'm now turning 24, pay for rent, food, clothing, gas, everything and my new car. Don't owe to much but I number crunch pretty well and make things work for myself.

lucad2
01-12-2012, 09:41 PM
Put that 6500/yr towards your education......you sound like you need one. Unless of course you are in school and mommy and daddy pays for everything for you, then proceed as you were (no point arguing with your type)......

I do go to college and pay for everything myself. I buy my own clothes, I buy my own books, pay for my tuition, I pay my own cell phone bill, pay for maintenance and gas, and insurance on my car and also bought it my self. I even pay the 100$ a month it is to be under my parents insurance during the winter. When it comes summer I do not sleep, I work, work and work. I am not one of those types that mommy and daddy do not give me everything. Even from when I was a kid, if I wanted a toy I needed to work for it, I'd have to do a few things to help out my parents such as the dishes, cutting the grass, shovelling the snow ect.

lucad2
01-12-2012, 09:55 PM
totally agreed.

Theres no way in hell he could've saved up money to buy an e46 m3, doesnt matter if he had a job since he was 12, it could be possible if he didnt go to middle school nor high school. lol.

You 'saving money' and having your parents pay for everything else, ( clothes, spending money, all your bills, etc ) ISNT really called saving money.

I know this because I've been on my own ever since grade 10 when i got a job as a lifeguard, i started to pay for my phone bill, clothes, gas, insurance, spending money.

Plus I had to defer my university for a year to work and save some spending money for university.

My guess is and I am probably right, unless your parents paid for all your necessities , you could not have saved up money to buy your e46 m3.


I get that all the time, I understand why people think I could never afford a m3 without my parents help. I work a lot and even a little too much. During the summers I work almost 50-60 hours a week. During school I work about 25- 30 hours a week. Plus my main job I get paid well. I also never spent my money on anything. From when I started working I took 20$ from my pay cheque and when you barely spend money, it adds up real quick. Also any birthday, Christmas money I got I put it straight in the bank never really spent any of it. Its only about when I was 17 I started to spend a bit of money on going out and stuff. If you think of it saving every almost penny you make for 5 years it really adds up quick. I recently got involved with stock trading and that also helps me make some money (Even though I'm still new at it and I did lose some too but I'm still learning). Also only paid $18 000 for my car, I got a really good deal since I knew the owner. Its a 2005 ZCP and I got it with about 130k on it so I think I got a pretty good deal. If I had to pay full price probably 22-25k I don't think I would of bought it.

Edit: I should also mention I am a junk collector. Any electronic that people are throwing out, bikes, metal and ect. I collect this stuff part it out / fix them and sell it. If their is no use to it I keep on the metal and keep it for scrap. This also helps me make some money. If anyone is in need of a quick buck this does take some time to get some really good things but sometimes you get stuff that will make you some nice cash. Keep in mind its not a lot of money. Some months I make like 50 bucks or some I make nothing, but its a good way to make some extra cash.


Thank you everybody who is helping me out here.

paddyhong
01-13-2012, 08:22 AM
I could care less about his lifestory. He owns one so be it. He pays what he pays. It's not hard nowadays to sign a quick 20grand loan from a bank and purchase a car. Could have done that? or saved and got a small loan. There's to many possibilities here to be pointing fingers and saying things you have ZERO knowing about. Like I said, it makes you look like a moron.

When I was 21, I was paying 360$/mth for a 04 neon that I first financed. that's around 4400$/year. I made it work. I'm now turning 24, pay for rent, food, clothing, gas, everything and my new car. Don't owe to much but I number crunch pretty well and make things work for myself.

+1

Bottom line, if he paid for it with his own money, props to him. If his parents paid for it and he said he did, no respect. Is anyone going to prove that he did or didn't? If I were him and I was telling the truth, I'd just say believe it or not. It's up to you.

sproule905
01-13-2012, 09:59 AM
Its a 2005 ZCP and I got it with about 130k on it so I think I got a pretty good deal. If I had to pay full price probably 22-25k I don't think I would .

so it's not even an M3 and you are paying what my mortgage for 5 months would be???

T.Dot_E30
01-13-2012, 10:16 AM
Again, no point arguing with your type, continue has you were and we'll continue to believe your full of shit.

SiR
01-13-2012, 11:05 AM
the rest of us who actually pay for shit and know the value of a dollar dont feel the need to brag about it because...you dont have to. And also can smell bs a mile away.

the math just doesnt work no matter what you say.

SiR
01-13-2012, 11:10 AM
I do go to college and pay for everything myself. I buy my own clothes, I buy my own books, pay for my tuition, I pay my own cell phone bill, pay for maintenance and gas, and insurance on my car and also bought it my self. I even pay the 100$ a month it is to be under my parents insurance during the winter. When it comes summer I do not sleep, I work, work and work. I am not one of those types that mommy and daddy do not give me everything. Even from when I was a kid, if I wanted a toy I needed to work for it, I'd have to do a few things to help out my parents such as the dishes, cutting the grass, shovelling the snow ect.


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w76/cgallagh/bs-meter.gif

InfiniteDice
01-13-2012, 11:12 AM
haha you guys are hilarious :)

HavocSteve
01-13-2012, 01:20 PM
You know what, I believe him. I give him the benifit of the doubt. Only because my cousin who's 21 now owns his own house. Found this out over x-mas visiting family. Appearently he broke up with his girlfriend and worked an entire year none-stop to save up close to 30grand. He only came home and went to work and took any overtime he could get working. Now owns his place and rents out a couple rooms. So who am I to say this kid didn't do the same as my cousin?

Anyways, back on topic. I'm eyeing a 08 135i from a dealership, it's a coupe and my current car if a 4door hatchback. I'll be turning 24 in April. Should I wait till I hit 24 or jump on this asap. The car payments will be lower but the semi-sport speed3 compared to a 135i coupe, I think my insurance might jump a bit lol.

damameke
01-13-2012, 02:54 PM
Anyways, back on topic. I'm eyeing a 08 135i from a dealership, it's a coupe and my current car if a 4door hatchback. I'll be turning 24 in April. Should I wait till I hit 24 or jump on this asap. The car payments will be lower but the semi-sport speed3 compared to a 135i coupe, I think my insurance might jump a bit lol.

At 24 . insurance will still ding you, the magic age is 25(thats when you are mature and wouldnt do stupid shxt); now go figure why thus magic number.

I would probably call the insurance company to see what the difference in premium on the i 135 first.

SiR
01-13-2012, 03:32 PM
You know what, I believe him. I give him the benifit of the doubt. Only because my cousin who's 21 now owns his own house. Found this out over x-mas visiting family. Appearently he broke up with his girlfriend and worked an entire year none-stop to save up close to 30grand. He only came home and went to work and took any overtime he could get working. Now owns his place and rents out a couple rooms. So who am I to say this kid didn't do the same as my cousin?

Anyways, back on topic. I'm eyeing a 08 135i from a dealership, it's a coupe and my current car if a 4door hatchback. I'll be turning 24 in April. Should I wait till I hit 24 or jump on this asap. The car payments will be lower but the semi-sport speed3 compared to a 135i coupe, I think my insurance might jump a bit lol.

who in the hell let this guy buy a house with less than 30k down?

no bank would do that unless his rents co signed.
I dont give the benefit of the doubt to the same silly story Ive read a zillion times on forums from 18 yr olds. Doesnt take a math degree to figure out it doesnt add up...though I basically have one of those.



keep the speed 3.

hockeyfan27
01-13-2012, 03:51 PM
At 24 . insurance will still ding you, the magic age is 25(thats when you are mature and wouldnt do stupid shxt); now go figure why thus magic number.

I would probably call the insurance company to see what the difference in premium on the i 135 first.

A couple companies out there will give you the 25 year old rate in advance.

Smaller cars tend to suffer from higher accident benefit rates which are done on a scale of 1-5: 1 cheapest/low injury payouts, 5 death trap/high injury payouts. All based on the claims experience of the car

2008 M3 hard top convertible is a 1
2006 Subaru STI is a 1
My 1998 328IC is a 3 :huh?:
most honda civics are a 4 or 5

I haven't seen a 1 series quote in a bit but I would suspect it would be a 3 or 4. Which is probably on par with the mazdaspeed 3. Check your policy for the vehicle rate groups or VRGs If you can't make sense of them, post up what you see and I'll decipher them. *th-up*

dcramer
01-13-2012, 03:53 PM
Interesting about the 328. I would guess the M3 would be the same. Civics are apparently not a safe car.

hockeyfan27
01-13-2012, 04:05 PM
Civics always do well in the crash testing, but they are crashed more often, have more passengers and as such suffer from exceptionally high injury payouts.

Auto insurance is the last coverage in when paying for injuries and lost wages etc... all other benefit plans pay first.

So on cars owned by executives, who generally have excellent benefit plans, the injury payout is lower than cars driven by a demographic who would not have "place of work benefits", such as a civic. Hence the dirt cheap AB coverage on the hard top M3.

Remember, the insurance industry is NOT logic driven. It's actuarial.

dcramer
01-13-2012, 04:06 PM
Makes even more sense now

sproule905
01-13-2012, 05:52 PM
who in the hell let this guy buy a house with less than 30k down?

no bank would do that unless his rents co signed.
I dont give the benefit of the doubt to the same silly story Ive read a zillion times on forums from 18 yr olds. Doesnt take a math degree to figure out it doesnt add up...though I basically have one of those.



keep the speed 3.

Haha.... He cracks me up just as much. 30K down on a house... 21 to add. Probably has a credit card limit of 50K too!

Much like the OP, albeit these two are friends.

Renting out a house that mommy and daddy live in does not mean you own the house.

HavocSteve
01-13-2012, 06:08 PM
Haha.... He cracks me up just as much. 30K down on a house... 21 to add. Probably has a credit card limit of 50K too!

Much like the OP, albeit these two are friends.

Renting out a house that mommy and daddy live in does not mean you own the house.

Are you ****ing retarded? His parents live across town lol. You want his name number and address? Because you guys are ****ing dumb and I mean dumb... worst IQ ever.. maybe even lower then a door knob.

Yea I just looked into the 135i, it's 300.50% bi-weekly with 0down for 60 months. That's 80$ more or so then ours at the current moment, I think I might just keep the speed3 lol.

noodles101
01-13-2012, 06:15 PM
^fcplm

I want his name, number and adress please. I want PROOF or this is all bs

HavocSteve
01-13-2012, 08:34 PM
Name : Josh Code
Address : 9 Clinton Court, Bowmanville, ON L1C4K7
Number : I don't think he'd like me posting it but I'll link his facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/jcode3?sk=info

Tell him, his cousin Stephen said that he bought a house with his own hard earned money and that morons think it's not possible lol. ****ing clowns....

lucad2
01-13-2012, 09:35 PM
so it's not even an M3 and you are paying what my mortgage for 5 months would be???
2005 M3 with the ZCP (Competition package)

lucad2
01-13-2012, 09:38 PM
who in the hell let this guy buy a house with less than 30k down?

no bank would do that unless his rents co signed.
I dont give the benefit of the doubt to the same silly story Ive read a zillion times on forums from 18 yr olds. Doesnt take a math degree to figure out it doesnt add up...though I basically have one of those.



keep the speed 3.


This one only requires only 5% down, lets say the house is 400k. the min down payment is 20k

http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/mortgages/cash-back-mortgage.html

1bmw1
01-13-2012, 10:06 PM
What you or anyone finds expensive is purely subjective depending on how much you can afford. If a billionaire wanted to buy a chocolate bar for $10, i'm sure they may think it's a lot for a chocolate bar, but i'm also sure they would just get it for convenience purposes or other reasons around it. Anyways to keep on topic, this may also apply to insurance rates.

Another thing i don't really understands is why so many younger guys feel it's a bad thing when parents support you. There's nothing wrong with it! When I was younger I can freely say that my parents paid for my schooling, gas, and even bought me my first bimmer when i was 18!...i'm extremely greatful for it, but in no way it made me weak or unappreciative. They wanted me to spend more time on my studies, that's all.

Bullet Ride
01-13-2012, 10:38 PM
If claims are costing 5x more in Ontario.. then they need to be limited to 5x less.

I don't care if you are a brain surgeon if you lose a hand it's 25,000. Get over it your hand is no more valuable than that of a bum. Putting a payout value on someone based on their economic value makes me sick, how twisted can this world get. We're not talking private insurance here.


I just wanted to chime in here to say that I disagree with you here. Getting damages based on projected earnings is a good thing. If an injury will prevent you from doing the line of work that you studied to do, and that you've been doing for many years, it can seriously affect your state of living. Say for example that you're a millwright of 15 years, and you're making $90K per year. Then someone smashes into your car and you end up losing an arm. Now you are unable to be a millwright because you need two hands to do that kind of job. At this point you are probably in your late 30's, it's not really worth going back to school, you'll probably end up checking receipts at the door at costco until you're 65 making $25k per year. Just assume a fixed gap between the two salaries from now until you retire, so now you're making $65k per year less than you would be if you hadn't been involved in that accident. I'm sure you would have appreciated having that extra $1.5mil of salary when you retired.

That was just a simple example to put it into perspective, obviously there are a number of factors that are considered when calculating damages. However there are obviously extremes to this where I disagree. For example if you're a major league athlete and your projected earnings would be in the hundreds of millions... **** that no body should make that kind of money for a living to begin with.


Name : Josh Code
Address : 9 Clinton Court, Bowmanville, ON L1C4K7
Number : I don't think he'd like me posting it but I'll link his facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/jcode3?sk=info

Tell him, his cousin Stephen said that he bought a house with his own hard earned money and that morons think it's not possible lol. ****ing clowns....

I just wanted to chime in here to say that I enjoy syrup on my ROFLS :D

sproule905
01-14-2012, 11:24 AM
Are you ****ing retarded? His parents live across town lol. You want his name number and address? Because you guys are ****ing dumb and I mean dumb... worst IQ ever.. maybe even lower then a door knob.

Yea I just looked into the 135i, it's 300.50% bi-weekly with 0down for 60 months. That's 80$ more or so then ours at the current moment, I think I might just keep the speed3 lol.

did you JUST call me a facking retard, then post someones private information.

hmmm.. Ottawa sure is producing some gems these days.

Stick to the Mazda and zoom zoom outta here.

1bmw1
01-14-2012, 11:39 AM
Name : Josh Code
Address : 9 Clinton Court, Bowmanville, ON L1C4K7
Number : I don't think he'd like me posting it but I'll link his facebook page.

http://www.facebook.com/jcode3?sk=info

Tell him, his cousin Stephen said that he bought a house with his own hard earned money and that morons think it's not possible lol. ****ing clowns....

Wow..according to you, everyone is a moron and a clown, yet you post someone's personal info on here. I guess you're not aware or don't care that search engine bots will have that info up for everyone's viewing in no time! I'm sure Josh Code will appreciate it. Good job!

HalifaxMMM
01-14-2012, 03:50 PM
when I moved from the suburbs to downtown.. my insurance actually dropped lol

SiR
01-16-2012, 01:05 PM
This one only requires only 5% down, lets say the house is 400k. the min down payment is 20k

http://www.rbcroyalbank.com/mortgages/cash-back-mortgage.html

fcplm

no bank will sign you for a 400k house with 20k down unless you have a cosigner AND the funds to afford it and enough to actually live(which they DO calculate out when you go through the mortgage process). keep digging.

this isnt the US where they gave this stuff away.

havoc is a genuine dumba55.

noodles101
01-16-2012, 01:16 PM
when I moved from the suburbs to downtown.. my insurance actually dropped lol

maybe because your travel distance have shortened ? thats my guess.

sproule905
01-16-2012, 06:11 PM
fcplm

no bank will sign you for a 400k house with 20k down unless you have a cosigner AND the funds to afford it and enough to actually live(which they DO calculate out when you go through the mortgage process). keep digging.

this isnt the US where they gave this stuff away.

havoc is a genuine dumba55.

And these are the gimps that go through life paying the bare minimum

hockeyfan27
02-01-2012, 05:21 PM
as promised, stats here: but they are 2010 not 2011.

http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1546713#post1546713

InfiniteDice
02-01-2012, 06:31 PM
If an injury will prevent you from doing the line of work that you studied to do, and that you've been doing for many years, it can seriously affect your state of living.


That's probably true, but you're opening another can of worms here. What you're saying is the Laywer with a cosy standard of living who gets in an accident deserves more money because he had the potential to make more money. If you work for 10$ an hour at a factory you get less because you're worthless anyways.

I'm sorry but I think the amount should equal the injury. When we get into declaring how much someone's hand is valued at depending on the income potential of the injured... well that's just plain scary language. Think about it for a bit.

I think that if you're a doctor and need your hands... buy extra hand insurance privately. It should have nothing to do with auto insurance.

Bodily injury should have NOTHING to do with auto insurance... Just like home insurance shouldn't have anything to do with bodily injury if you fall down your stairs... But it's all designed by the government and industry to be an efficient way of sucking money out of people on a consistent basis. Hey do you have purple hair? then statistically people with strange hair colours are more apt to be suicidal... lets make their rate 50% higher. Done.

propr'one
02-01-2012, 10:17 PM
I'm sorry but I think the amount should equal the injury.

Well, the law, and the insurance industry thinks different.

InfiniteDice
02-02-2012, 10:01 PM
Well, the law, and the insurance industry thinks different.

That's right, and expect more in the future... make sure you stock up on personal lubricant. It's big and they'll make it fit.

propr'one
02-02-2012, 10:08 PM
I live in alberta. My insurance rates are very reasonable.

dbworld4k
02-02-2012, 10:40 PM
That's right, and expect more in the future... make sure you stock up on personal lubricant. It's big and they'll make it fit.

I live in alberta. My insurance rates are very reasonable.

So what Ivan is saying is, he doesn't use lube.

bmwm5lover
02-02-2012, 11:40 PM
So what Ivan is saying is, he doesn't use lube.

Exactly. Its a luxury and he doesn't spend his money recklessly.

ALPINA MAN
02-03-2012, 03:04 PM
I am not sure about all these Gibberish talks of 9 pages. If we go back to OP subject, which is the insurance cost, regardless of your age and status in life you should be able to purchase insurance at the reasonable rate with out braking the bank and or make people to risk their life and life of others driving cars with out insurance. like any other provinces such as B.C., P.E.I, Calgary, Etc…Etc…. that government should sale you insurance and it shouldn’t have anything to do with the numbers of the tickets or such unlike what is going on in Ontario in which the government and insurance companies are raping people with their rates and close friendship.

I feel as if there is a close collaboration between Ontario Government and private insurance company that goes hand in hand. The cops were given daily duty to fulfill certain amount of tickets based on the policing budget shortages and insurance companies benefits from the government systems that entangled with insurance companies under the driver safety act which is absolutely BS, because over all there are no changes or difference in driving safety what so ever other then making life harder and harder for Ontarians.

On next election I probably would vote for some one that would address this issue for the Ontario residence like any other provinces whom put the needs of people a head of insurance company.

hockeyfan27
02-03-2012, 05:34 PM
I am not sure about all these Gibberish talks of 9 pages. If we go back to OP subject, which is the insurance cost, regardless of your age and status in life you should be able to purchase insurance at the reasonable rate with out braking the bank and or make people to risk their life and life of others driving cars with out insurance. like any other provinces such as B.C., P.E.I, Calgary, Etc…Etc…. that government should sale you insurance and it shouldn’t have anything to do with the numbers of the tickets or such unlike what is going on in Ontario in which the government and insurance companies are raping people with their rates and close friendship.

I feel as if there is a close collaboration between Ontario Government and private insurance company that goes hand in hand. The cops were given daily duty to fulfill certain amount of tickets based on the policing budget shortages and insurance companies benefits from the government systems that entangled with insurance companies under the driver safety act which is absolutely BS, because over all there are no changes or difference in driving safety what so ever other then making life harder and harder for Ontarians.

On next election I probably would vote for some one that would address this issue for the Ontario residence like any other provinces whom put the needs of people a head of insurance company.

Generally, is insurance too expensive? Yes. I agree. Is it fair that a habitual drunk driver or a person with 3 accidents pays the same as a cautious driver? No.

Is there a conspiracy with the government and insurance companies? fcplm

ALPINA MAN
02-03-2012, 08:48 PM
Generally, is insurance too expensive? Yes. I agree. Is it fair that a habitual drunk driver or a person with 3 accidents pays the same as a cautious driver? No.

Is there a conspiracy with the government and insurance companies? fcplm



Jonathan,

How are you doing, hope all is well, I agree, there are some drunk, careless drivers and opportunists, but not most people are like them and perhaps that point of view in insurance industry could have a lot to do with the insurance rate going up and up.

I’m just implying that there shouldn’t be an exchange of the people’s info between government and private insurance companies that would give the Insurance company upper hand that would end up with higher rate for the consumers.

Thanks,
Sia