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t101
11-16-2011, 08:47 PM
Hi Folks

Need some help. Been trying to buy a 5 bolt + coilover suspension for my 1991 318is from Elephant Motorsports -- but they never call back and I have waited too long for their setup, despite how much I like it.

http://www.elephantmotorsports.com/bmw-e30-ast-suspension-4200-coilover-kit-p-555.html

Essentially I want to convert my e30 from 4 bolt to e36 5 lug using this well written set of steps http://www.e30zone.net/e30zonewiki/index.php/5-Lug_Conversion

But I want to run a quality set of coilover suspension (I already have a set of Willwood brakes from Ireland Eng.) My problem is that the e30 M3 coilover systems won't work with the front setup (because it will be e36 knuckles) but I will need e30 M3 rear coilovers. (or at least that is my understanding...)

Is there anyone who sells a set of coils for this type of conversion?

Thanks for the help.

pics for fun...

wheels

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306443_10150834928270371_588900370_20596257_549689 358_n.jpg
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/311709_10150834930430371_588900370_20596268_931341 409_n.jpg

brakes

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/312553_10150831940250371_588900370_20578979_188990 7383_n.jpg

car

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/310911_10150791452040371_588900370_20298216_639193 779_n.jpg

cormier
11-16-2011, 09:35 PM
Can you not run e30m3 front suspension as well and get those coils? I thought e30 m3 was the way to go for 5lug?

Ps nice wheels :D

ZiMMie
11-16-2011, 11:30 PM
what offset are the wheels?

also why not go with an E30 M3 setup, you can get the front spindles if u you buy H&R or KW coils for an E30 M3(vegas pricing). Add a set of E36 M3 Brakes and you are laughing.

For the rear is easy, You will need E30 M3 hubs/bearing, E32 735i carrier/calipers, e30 M3 rotors and pads.. no need for trailing arm.

That is what ill do if i were to do a 5lug swap on an e30. The e36 setup changes the suspension way too much. Plus the benefit of low offset wheels.*par-t*

t101
11-17-2011, 06:45 AM
what offset are the wheels?

also why not go with an E30 M3 setup, you can get the front spindles if u you buy H&R or KW coils for an E30 M3(vegas pricing). Add a set of E36 M3 Brakes and you are laughing.

For the rear is easy, You will need E30 M3 hubs/bearing, E32 735i carrier/calipers, e30 M3 rotors and pads.. no need for trailing arm.

That is what ill do if i were to do a 5lug swap on an e30. The e36 setup changes the suspension way too much. Plus the benefit of low offset wheels.*par-t*

Thanks for the reply
The front spindles for the M3 are really expensive (from the dealer) do you know how/where I might be able to get them for a reasonable price?

As mentioned I have a full front/rear willwood brake setup so the rear would be easy.

t101
11-17-2011, 08:39 AM
offset on the wheels is ET 15 front and ET 10 rear 16x8.5 and 16x9.5

Roysneon
11-17-2011, 09:12 AM
You could mix E36 M3 front with E30M3 rear, but then you have two totally different offsets front and rear, meaning your front wheels will have much more poke than the rears-not good. You can get E36 M3 front rotors and calipers on an E30M3 front strut tube, but then you still need a spacer (like 10-20mm or something) behind the rotor, once again giving you two different offsets.

Ground Control sells a bolt on setup made exactly for what you have. Its called the E36 on E30 or bastard setup. The rear coilovers are the same for an E30 with 4 lug, 5 lug whatever as long as you have the same semi trailing arm design the car came with. If you're using E36 front knuckles and brakes, the best match for the rear is E36Ti/compact rear trailing arms. They are the same design and fit right on an E30 subframe but would already have 5 bolt hubs and an offset of an E36 just like the front. No messing with spacers or having the fronts poke more than the rears.

So just to summarize:

E36 has a high offset, E30 has low, they don't like to mix.
Best match for E36 M front knuckles are E36Ti rear TA's/hubs
Ground control can sell you everything you need short of the hubs/bearings and trailing arms.
Lastly, I did a lot of reading on E36 5 lug before I found my E30M3 suspension.

Roysneon
11-17-2011, 09:17 AM
Oh check out Bimmerworld.com I believe it is. They are selling E36 M3 front spindles crazy cheap, just need wheel bearings for them. That plus Ti rear arms and you're set.

ZiMMie
11-17-2011, 10:19 AM
offset on the wheels is ET 15 front and ET 10 rear 16x8.5 and 16x9.5

Yea will not be able to run those wheels with an e36's 5lug setup,unless you are interested in running stretch tires all around.

as i said before, if you buy an H&R or KW coils, it will come with the FRONT Spindle so no need to buy that from the dealer.

Mike

craz azn
11-17-2011, 10:46 AM
Just FYI, if you do go the route of H&R/KW e30 M3 coilovers, you still will need to buy the bottom steering pedestal from the dealer so you can connect your tie rod and ball joint to the strut.

Nice wheels man!

Ceeker
11-17-2011, 11:27 AM
Can you not run e30m3 front suspension as well and get those coils? I thought e30 m3 was the way to go for 5lug?

Ps nice wheels :D

I also understand that e30M3 5 lug is the preferred way to go as it is a big hassle getting all the e36 stuff together.

Problem though...how does one get e30 M3 suspension, unless new from the dealership? Not to many wrecks floating around anymore. :-)

Roysneon
11-17-2011, 01:03 PM
^ That, along with having even larger brakes is why more people go E36 route. I was extremely lucky and got the deal of a lifetime my E30 M3 stuff but it came without brakes and missing one rear hub/bearing, so it's still expensive and I'm finding it hard to find some of the parts I'm missing.

When you're putting E36 bits on an E30 in the stock mounting points, there is no guarantee that anything will work properly. You're putting parts off of a completely different car with similar front end so there are many ways it could be off a bit, caster seems to be the #1 alignment issue with E36 5 lug swappers.

Gleb
11-17-2011, 06:21 PM
If you're using E36 front knuckles and brakes, the best match for the rear is E36Ti/compact rear trailing arms. They are the same design and fit right on an E30 subframe but would already have 5 bolt hubs and an offset of an E36 just like the front. No messing with spacers or having the fronts poke more than the rears.

So just to summarize:

E36 has a high offset, E30 has low, they don't like to mix.
Best match for E36 M front knuckles are E36Ti rear TA's/hubs
Ground control can sell you everything you need short of the hubs/bearings and trailing arms.

1. ^THIS!
2. You CAN make those wheels work if it's a track car... but surgery is required.
3. 16" wheels will most likely NOT work if you're going to use E36 M3 brakes.
You may want to go 17" wheels for a much better selection of track worthy tires anyway, wheels too.
4. You WILL need 95 or later E36 M3 control arms and caster adjustable camber plates to fix caster issues.
5. I know it's frustrating, but try to get a hold of Elephant guys, it's a good set-up. I have the same, but it took me some time to source all parts and some trial and error.
http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83265&stc=1&d=1230096636
http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=83266&stc=1&d=1230096636
http://www.maxbimmer.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95394&stc=1&d=1266862591

Good luck!

e30_kid89
11-17-2011, 09:08 PM
I ran a 5lug (e36 based setup) for about 2-3yrs, i went about it differently in the front using the lower half e36 spindle/strut housing and welding the e30 threaded portion on the top/matching the e30 strut length allowing me to use e30 strut inserts with the e36 struts/e36 m3 spindles and e30-spec GC camber plates ...and the ti rear.

You WILL need the offset cab's and 97+m3 control arms as gleb has mentioned, and camber plates are preferred to dial in your setup to your liking. With the plates, offset CAB's and the additional bimmerworld camber shims I had 8.5/8.7 deg of caster and probably close to -5.0deg of negative camber if i install all the shims/max out the camber plates...more than factory specs*wave*

t101
12-01-2011, 11:32 AM
Thanks guys

I want to stick with the e30 M3 stuff so I have the right offset.
My BIG problem is the front spindles -- they are rare and expensive and I need them to build the front coils regardless of what coils I choose. Is my only choice the 800$ option from VAC (each). Is there no one reproducing these for a less expensive option?

Roysneon
12-01-2011, 03:10 PM
E30 M3 is easiest, but more expensive due to relative rarity. You can buy the rear hubs and brakes new and they match right up to any E30 trailing arm, but the front strut tube is a specific part. You can not just put an M3 hub+bearing on the regular E30 front strut like you can the rear trailing arms. Your best bet is to look around on S14.net or to contact Levent @ Gutenparts. Full suspensions come up fairly regularly on s14 and Gutenparts has hooked up a few people with E30 5 lug suspensions. Good luck with the project.

t101
12-03-2011, 09:34 PM
thanks for the info on GutenParts -- sadly they have no front spindles but they had lots of other info and help for me on this first BMW project for me